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Post Match thread: Charlton Athletic vs Sunderland | Saturday 5th March 2022
Comments
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Not enough.sam3110 said:
How many tabs of acid did you have before watching it?RonnieMoore said:
He watched it live …… it was not boring it was two sides giving everything they had .. we had the best chance of the game …. Overall it was a very good gamegolfaddick said:
You weren't there mate so pipe down.Scoham said:
It was cold, boring & insipid. Too much more of that & you can sell my seat to some other mug.1 -
But Jacko hasn't had a summer to do this yet. He wants 3-5-2, we don't have the players. You have to give him a summer to build his team. You simply can't do that in January. It's been a shocking season, but, whilst you can't exonerate Jackson from that totally, the Adkins start, a large handful of players not good enough to challenge for promotion, and the last 6 games of 0 strikers fit have been arguably more culpable.Braziliance said:Jacko needs to go, 352 again when we don’t have any wingbacks, our centre backs can’t play it out from the back and our strikers couldn’t hold it up/win headers. Completely out of his depth. If he wasn’t Charlton the atmosphere would be toxic.Pritchard and their 9 destroyed us until they came off, they missed 3 free headers, they should have been at least 3 nil up by halftime.Lavelle? Have a word, I somehow got tricked into thinking he was good cause he was Morecambes captain and came with good reviews from them, then it dawned on me, it was league 2 and Morecambe. He is Jason Pearce v2, panicked and unassured.So much more to moan about but at the end of the day, I truly believe we need Jacko gone and get a manager in who knows how to change it up. Keep the decent players and flog the rest. Out of that lot today, only Dobson, Fraser, McG and Stockley would be anywhere near my team
just can’t wait for it to be over
Agree with your summary of most of the squad, but not sure what you would've done differently with the squad we have.3 -
Huff and puff and commitment great .
Fraser looks like he may have long covid and is as weak as me , as in pathetic , although there’s deffo a footballing brain in there
The Lavelle I’m watching is currently a back up at best for a promotion winning team .
it’s just junk but a point away from the unthinkable
it’s easily the worse footballing period in our history
and palaces best
and the scum are 3 points from the play offs
what a fucking disaster
16th in league one and I’m tugging one off for a no shot on target 0-0 , feels like the 3rd wank in quick succession, a proper damp squib bean shot .At least with these mouthwatering fixtures to come we have something to look forward to as the season end approaches
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Didn't get to watch the full game, watched the first 15-20, then had to visit a friend for a kids play date... Well didn't have to, but chose to.
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It got a lot better after that , we improved a load to just about adequate , that first 20 was awfulDazzler21 said:Didn't get to watch the full game, watched the first 15-20, then had to visit a friend for a kids play date... Well didn't have to, but chose to.1 -
Given the present state of our team I was happy with a point yesterday. But, there again I realise I may have been Charltonised enough to find a crumb from the table better than no crumb at all. The only objective now is to limp to League one safety. (How exciting).
... Next season Mr Sandgaard ...
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Agree 100% re the wing backs and slavishly keeping with 3-5-2, the whole of the game. I appreciate that when defending you can transition to 5-3-2 but that’s what it was for all of the first 30 minutes or so and we weren’t in the game. I can’t recall DJ being able to advance much beyond the half-way line in all that time. We should have changed to four at the back with Gunter on the right and Purrington on the left, moved DJ up on the right of a midfield four and would hopefully have been better able to compete and get more possession.Blucher said:A gritty and scrappy point, which was just what was required in the circumstances to stop the losing run.
After a largely backs to the wall first period, the team raised its game in the second half and showed a lot more fight than we’ve seen in recent games. The leadership of Stockley and Pearce - who had a horse of a game - probably had a lot to do with that, and we were also indebted to MacGillivray for a couple of good second half saves.
The problem with the team structurally was that our wing backs rarely ventured over the halfway line, which contributed to us being outnumbered in midfield and winning very few second balls. Essentially, we played a 5-3-2, although at least we had Stockley up top to present a threat to the opposition.
All that said, a clean sheet is a big bonus after our recent defensive woes and it was also good to get 60 minutes or so into Fraser. Other results at the foot of the table went our way and hopefully we can put any lingering relegation concerns to bed over the next few weeks.
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Actually enjoyed the match (although that may just be a relative enjoyment compared to what I’ve witnessed the last few weeks). Was impressed that our heads didn’t drop when we struggled in the first 20-25 mins and I actually thought we were the best team for most of the second half. Thought a point was a fair result and I haven’t been able to say that for a loooong time.9
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Having said to my nephew pre-game that we need a Curbs style dig in backs to the wall performance from our halcyon days in the prem, I'm in the glass half full camp (and probably the minority) in my assessment of this performance:
Spine of the team in Pearce, Dobbo and Stocks looked strong and led by example.
I was delighted to see defenders throwing themselves at the ball to protect our goal 2nd half. That desire has been missing for some time.
DJ gave a real disciplined defensive performance which I did not think he had in his locker.
Mac G did what a good Glovesy should do in making some important saves when our defence was breached.
This was an entertaining 0-0. A good tempo 2nd half with chances at both ends.
JJ demonstrated he does have more than one way of playing. We simply haven't been hard enough to beat under him until yesterday.
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Of course there were negatives, there are in any match but I hope this battling display will restore confidence for the remainder of the season. I for one left the ground content with what I had witnessed.
If you can't win don't lose.10 -
Good point. I think we should have been switching to that sort of system on and off all season, and should have worked on doing so in training. Do any of the top managers rigidly stick to one formation, come hell or high water?robinofottershaw said:
Agree 100% re the wing backs and slavishly keeping with 3-5-2, the whole of the game. I appreciate that when defending you can transition to 5-3-2 but that’s what it was for all of the first 30 minutes or so and we weren’t in the game. I can’t recall DJ being able to advance much beyond the half-way line in all that time. We should have changed to four at the back with Gunter on the right and Purrington on the left, moved DJ up on the right of a midfield four and would hopefully have been better able to compete and get more possession.Blucher said:A gritty and scrappy point, which was just what was required in the circumstances to stop the losing run.
After a largely backs to the wall first period, the team raised its game in the second half and showed a lot more fight than we’ve seen in recent games. The leadership of Stockley and Pearce - who had a horse of a game - probably had a lot to do with that, and we were also indebted to MacGillivray for a couple of good second half saves.
The problem with the team structurally was that our wing backs rarely ventured over the halfway line, which contributed to us being outnumbered in midfield and winning very few second balls. Essentially, we played a 5-3-2, although at least we had Stockley up top to present a threat to the opposition.
All that said, a clean sheet is a big bonus after our recent defensive woes and it was also good to get 60 minutes or so into Fraser. Other results at the foot of the table went our way and hopefully we can put any lingering relegation concerns to bed over the next few weeks.
I think it’s too easy to say we don’t have players good enough to do it.1 -
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A word for our new firm in the East stand.Keep up the good work lads, you're striking fear into the hearts of the away fans and the way you give the stewards the run around must be admired.If only i was 50 years younger.0
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Although Pearce had a battling game out there y’day, I cringe at the post match tweet we get. Just crack on. We worked hard to hold out for a point, but when you’ve been on a run of 5 defeats and just scrapped a 0-0, it’s not tweetworthy. Get us 5 wins a row and I’ll be happy to start hearing from them again5
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You want to give another season to a manager that by your own admission will have played 3/4 of a season with a formation that doesn't suit the players at his disposal?Jonniesta said:
But Jacko hasn't had a summer to do this yet. He wants 3-5-2, we don't have the players. You have to give him a summer to build his team. You simply can't do that in January. It's been a shocking season, but, whilst you can't exonerate Jackson from that totally, the Adkins start, a large handful of players not good enough to challenge for promotion, and the last 6 games of 0 strikers fit have been arguably more culpable.Braziliance said:Jacko needs to go, 352 again when we don’t have any wingbacks, our centre backs can’t play it out from the back and our strikers couldn’t hold it up/win headers. Completely out of his depth. If he wasn’t Charlton the atmosphere would be toxic.Pritchard and their 9 destroyed us until they came off, they missed 3 free headers, they should have been at least 3 nil up by halftime.Lavelle? Have a word, I somehow got tricked into thinking he was good cause he was Morecambes captain and came with good reviews from them, then it dawned on me, it was league 2 and Morecambe. He is Jason Pearce v2, panicked and unassured.So much more to moan about but at the end of the day, I truly believe we need Jacko gone and get a manager in who knows how to change it up. Keep the decent players and flog the rest. Out of that lot today, only Dobson, Fraser, McG and Stockley would be anywhere near my team
just can’t wait for it to be over
Agree with your summary of most of the squad, but not sure what you would've done differently with the squad we have.0 -
After Lavelle was the only one with the guts to Tweet after our fifth straight loss last weekend I don’t want to see any of the rest of them celebrating draws/wins on social media for the rest of the season.cabbles said:Although Pearce had a battling game out there y’day, I cringe at the post match tweet we get. Just crack on. We worked hard to hold out for a point, but when you’ve been on a run of 5 defeats and just scrapped a 0-0, it’s not tweetworthy. Get us 5 wins a row and I’ll be happy to start hearing from them again0 -
Nowhere near good enough, quality wise, but at least we were competitive and battled hard to get the point. Defence all did well (although Lavelle was very shaky for the first 15 minutes or so). Special mention to DJ. He offered nothing going forward but he put in a diligent and effective defensive performance. Good to get Stockley and Fraser back out there but they were both clearly far from 100% fit.
A point is a point. It stops the rot and the next couple of games look winnable. Reasons to be a little more positive than of late.6 -
Famewo is positionally inept so dropping him made the defence harder to play through. Set pieces are still an issue though. They had two or three free headers that they should have done better with. This has to stop.
We actually had some decent chances without having a decent shot on target. Please Jacko, give Burstow a rest. He is pretty ineffectual and has been for a while.0 -
Wouldn't it have made more sense to wait until the summer before trying to implement a formation that we don't have the players for?Jonniesta said:
But Jacko hasn't had a summer to do this yet. He wants 3-5-2, we don't have the players. You have to give him a summer to build his team. You simply can't do that in January. It's been a shocking season, but, whilst you can't exonerate Jackson from that totally, the Adkins start, a large handful of players not good enough to challenge for promotion, and the last 6 games of 0 strikers fit have been arguably more culpable.Braziliance said:Jacko needs to go, 352 again when we don’t have any wingbacks, our centre backs can’t play it out from the back and our strikers couldn’t hold it up/win headers. Completely out of his depth. If he wasn’t Charlton the atmosphere would be toxic.Pritchard and their 9 destroyed us until they came off, they missed 3 free headers, they should have been at least 3 nil up by halftime.Lavelle? Have a word, I somehow got tricked into thinking he was good cause he was Morecambes captain and came with good reviews from them, then it dawned on me, it was league 2 and Morecambe. He is Jason Pearce v2, panicked and unassured.So much more to moan about but at the end of the day, I truly believe we need Jacko gone and get a manager in who knows how to change it up. Keep the decent players and flog the rest. Out of that lot today, only Dobson, Fraser, McG and Stockley would be anywhere near my team
just can’t wait for it to be over
Agree with your summary of most of the squad, but not sure what you would've done differently with the squad we have.8 -
If he knows who he's keeping, then best to get the formation and tactics drilled into those players to allow an easier integration for his newer incoming players I guess.Talal said:
Wouldn't it have made more sense to wait until the summer before trying to implement a formation that we don't have the players for?Jonniesta said:
But Jacko hasn't had a summer to do this yet. He wants 3-5-2, we don't have the players. You have to give him a summer to build his team. You simply can't do that in January. It's been a shocking season, but, whilst you can't exonerate Jackson from that totally, the Adkins start, a large handful of players not good enough to challenge for promotion, and the last 6 games of 0 strikers fit have been arguably more culpable.Braziliance said:Jacko needs to go, 352 again when we don’t have any wingbacks, our centre backs can’t play it out from the back and our strikers couldn’t hold it up/win headers. Completely out of his depth. If he wasn’t Charlton the atmosphere would be toxic.Pritchard and their 9 destroyed us until they came off, they missed 3 free headers, they should have been at least 3 nil up by halftime.Lavelle? Have a word, I somehow got tricked into thinking he was good cause he was Morecambes captain and came with good reviews from them, then it dawned on me, it was league 2 and Morecambe. He is Jason Pearce v2, panicked and unassured.So much more to moan about but at the end of the day, I truly believe we need Jacko gone and get a manager in who knows how to change it up. Keep the decent players and flog the rest. Out of that lot today, only Dobson, Fraser, McG and Stockley would be anywhere near my team
just can’t wait for it to be over
Agree with your summary of most of the squad, but not sure what you would've done differently with the squad we have.
For the initial change of management, these players were able to do it. I'd question their hunger, desire and consistency more than their ability though, as between the end of October and mid December they showed they can do it in this formation (Shrewsbury aside). Since then something has changed, something isn't clicking and we're heat jtnsimilar to under Bowyer how the team aren't doing what is asked of them.2 -
Looking back at the last minute chance, it would have been so sweet if we could have grabbed all 3 points with the last kick of the game.
Stockley had more time than he might have thought. But made a good run for free kick. His movement was very good.
The ball just about reaches Lavelle too quickly and on his weaker foot. It's the position we have seen Purrington score from and am sure if we had a leftie there then we might have bagged all 3 points. But we don't, we had one left footed player out of eleven on at that time. Another area we need to improve on in recruitment.0 -
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A fantastic almost goal line clearance. Read it perfectly.MuttleyCAFC said:I would like to remind some people that Gunter made a great clearance to stop a certain goal unless they think it was somebody else.2 -
Wasn't that shot going wide? A better player would've let it go... 😉0
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Yes. The players were bought to suit a 4-3-3, but it didn't work. Jackson took a relegation threatened squad, found a formation that could get us to mid-table. The players aren't right for it so we won't get higher this year, especially with the strikers out, but that’s not his fault. Stick with 4-3-3 and we would've gone down. Our defense isn't strong enough for a back 5, let alone a back 4. Play 3-5-2 and find out how many are genuinely promotion material (few) but get them familiar with the style so we can spend a pre-season getting set for a push. Otherwise we get a new guy in, new formation, same problem.balham red said:
You want to give another season to a manager that by your own admission will have played 3/4 of a season with a formation that doesn't suit the players at his disposal?Jonniesta said:
But Jacko hasn't had a summer to do this yet. He wants 3-5-2, we don't have the players. You have to give him a summer to build his team. You simply can't do that in January. It's been a shocking season, but, whilst you can't exonerate Jackson from that totally, the Adkins start, a large handful of players not good enough to challenge for promotion, and the last 6 games of 0 strikers fit have been arguably more culpable.Braziliance said:Jacko needs to go, 352 again when we don’t have any wingbacks, our centre backs can’t play it out from the back and our strikers couldn’t hold it up/win headers. Completely out of his depth. If he wasn’t Charlton the atmosphere would be toxic.Pritchard and their 9 destroyed us until they came off, they missed 3 free headers, they should have been at least 3 nil up by halftime.Lavelle? Have a word, I somehow got tricked into thinking he was good cause he was Morecambes captain and came with good reviews from them, then it dawned on me, it was league 2 and Morecambe. He is Jason Pearce v2, panicked and unassured.So much more to moan about but at the end of the day, I truly believe we need Jacko gone and get a manager in who knows how to change it up. Keep the decent players and flog the rest. Out of that lot today, only Dobson, Fraser, McG and Stockley would be anywhere near my team
just can’t wait for it to be over
Agree with your summary of most of the squad, but not sure what you would've done differently with the squad we have.2 -
Only just opened this thread so apologies for any repetition.
For the first time this season MacGillivray made a difference and earned us a point.
Sunderland are worse than about eight other teams in this division based on what I have seen, I agree with their fans we’re appallingly bad, but they need to look at themselves because our terrible team still took four points off them, oh and the MK Dons fans were far far better than those hoards of Sunderland fans yesterday in terms of vocal support.
Sunderland do have some hope though, Alex Neil set up that ‘sandwich’ method to stop Stockley, they had some kind of structure at set pieces (how many uncontested headers from corners ffs?) and worked it well wide right in the second half.
I will say that DJ, without Clare as a companion, and essentially utilised defensively yesterday, rose to his duties admirably. Dobson did his best, some others particularly Pearce delivered.
Looks like we have got away with it regarding Burstow, get money, loan him back, destroy his confidence.
We need four wins to escape relegation, and that’s not a given.6 -
Pretty sure Stockley was shooting, whereas when Purrington scored the equaliser in the playoff final Taylor played a dangerous ball into the right area. I don’t think Lavelle was as close to it as it may have looked, depending on where you were sitting. From behind the goal it never looked like he was going to get to it. As I said in an earlier post, I think it was a training ground move, the chipped free kick intended for Stockley’s head, and Lavelle steaming in on the far post to score from Stockley’s header across the goal. That’s how it looked to me. They can’t have anticipated the defence leaving Stockley completely unmarked as they did.mendonca said:Looking back at the last minute chance, it would have been so sweet if we could have grabbed all 3 points with the last kick of the game.
Stockley had more time than he might have thought. But made a good run for free kick. His movement was very good.
The ball just about reaches Lavelle too quickly and on his weaker foot. It's the position we have seen Purrington score from and am sure if we had a leftie there then we might have bagged all 3 points. But we don't, we had one left footed player out of eleven on at that time. Another area we need to improve on in recruitment.Can you imagine the scenes if Jayden had buried it though?!
Edit. Having seen the replay Lavelle would have been offside if he’d reached the ball anyway. I believe the lino was flagging.0 -
So play a different formation until you do then. It's crazy to continue with it otherwiseJonniesta said:
But Jacko hasn't had a summer to do this yet. He wants 3-5-2, we don't have the players. You have to give him a summer to build his team. You simply can't do that in January. It's been a shocking season, but, whilst you can't exonerate Jackson from that totally, the Adkins start, a large handful of players not good enough to challenge for promotion, and the last 6 games of 0 strikers fit have been arguably more culpable.Braziliance said:Jacko needs to go, 352 again when we don’t have any wingbacks, our centre backs can’t play it out from the back and our strikers couldn’t hold it up/win headers. Completely out of his depth. If he wasn’t Charlton the atmosphere would be toxic.Pritchard and their 9 destroyed us until they came off, they missed 3 free headers, they should have been at least 3 nil up by halftime.Lavelle? Have a word, I somehow got tricked into thinking he was good cause he was Morecambes captain and came with good reviews from them, then it dawned on me, it was league 2 and Morecambe. He is Jason Pearce v2, panicked and unassured.So much more to moan about but at the end of the day, I truly believe we need Jacko gone and get a manager in who knows how to change it up. Keep the decent players and flog the rest. Out of that lot today, only Dobson, Fraser, McG and Stockley would be anywhere near my team
just can’t wait for it to be over
Agree with your summary of most of the squad, but not sure what you would've done differently with the squad we have.2 -
You say the defence isn't good enough for a back 4, but didn't we go 6 wins with zero conceded with a back 4 last season pretty similar to Matthews, Innis, Famewo, Purrington?Jonniesta said:
Yes. The players were bought to suit a 4-3-3, but it didn't work. Jackson took a relegation threatened squad, found a formation that could get us to mid-table. The players aren't right for it so we won't get higher this year, especially with the strikers out, but that’s not his fault. Stick with 4-3-3 and we would've gone down. Our defense isn't strong enough for a back 5, let alone a back 4. Play 3-5-2 and find out how many are genuinely promotion material (few) but get them familiar with the style so we can spend a pre-season getting set for a push. Otherwise we get a new guy in, new formation, same problem.balham red said:
You want to give another season to a manager that by your own admission will have played 3/4 of a season with a formation that doesn't suit the players at his disposal?Jonniesta said:
But Jacko hasn't had a summer to do this yet. He wants 3-5-2, we don't have the players. You have to give him a summer to build his team. You simply can't do that in January. It's been a shocking season, but, whilst you can't exonerate Jackson from that totally, the Adkins start, a large handful of players not good enough to challenge for promotion, and the last 6 games of 0 strikers fit have been arguably more culpable.Braziliance said:Jacko needs to go, 352 again when we don’t have any wingbacks, our centre backs can’t play it out from the back and our strikers couldn’t hold it up/win headers. Completely out of his depth. If he wasn’t Charlton the atmosphere would be toxic.Pritchard and their 9 destroyed us until they came off, they missed 3 free headers, they should have been at least 3 nil up by halftime.Lavelle? Have a word, I somehow got tricked into thinking he was good cause he was Morecambes captain and came with good reviews from them, then it dawned on me, it was league 2 and Morecambe. He is Jason Pearce v2, panicked and unassured.So much more to moan about but at the end of the day, I truly believe we need Jacko gone and get a manager in who knows how to change it up. Keep the decent players and flog the rest. Out of that lot today, only Dobson, Fraser, McG and Stockley would be anywhere near my team
just can’t wait for it to be over
Agree with your summary of most of the squad, but not sure what you would've done differently with the squad we have.
I'd argue that our defence is in tatters now because we don't have the personnel for a 5. And that during Jackson's honeymoon we could have done just as well in a 4-3-3.
With all formations the key is balance. Right now we are inviting so much pressure onto our defence as we can't keep the ball.0 -
P.S credit to everybody at the Valley yesterday for the minutes silence, obviously including the Sunderland fans.
Was that their usual away kit?3 -
How is ‘stopping the rot’ deluded? We know we are shit, hence being marginally pleased we didn’t get stuffed again.Na we gonna make playoffs now we got a point against Sunderland 🙄2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3jnn632NAE
