Post Match thread: Charlton Athletic vs Sunderland | Saturday 5th March 2022

AndyG · March 2022

Ps. They also couldn't believe just how shit we were 😂

cblock · March 2022

And they still could'nt beat us

se9addick · March 2022

golfaddick said:

Chippycafc said:

Had a fantastic day in the boardroom yesterday and spoke to Sangaards son after the game. He was very approachable and said all there focus is on a proper recruitment drive now and for the start of next season.

Thanks to Swisdom for yesterday, top man and his family.

Can I therefore be critical if, by the start of August, we are still way behind other teams in terms of recruitment & we are still missing the players that will get us into the top 6. My optimum would be to have the core of squad pretty much complete by the time we play Welling in pre-season (usually around 10th-15th July) with just a few fringe players/ loans coming in by the start of August.

I got a lot of stick last July when I moaned that we were well behind other teams like ipswich & Wigan & was told to "be patient" and to trust the recruitment team. Unfortunately I have been proved right. I don't want to be proved right again.

Unless the core of the squad is made up of players currently under contract (I sincerely hope not if we have any chance of promotion) then I think it will be a tall order to have most of our significant business done by early July.

Even since that amazing season under Powell the transfer market has changed so much for League One clubs, the loan market especially being more important now. I would love to have all of our business done early, but we may have to be patient. That being said, at the very least, I would like to think by the Welling match we should have at least an idea of what our plan is for the transfer window.

Silverdreammachine · March 2022

Much better than the last two home games, need Washington back ASAP.
Stockley makes all the difference, seems to have been challenged by two defenders every time ball near him n the air, making space for others. Shame from my seat his shot at the end looked a lot nearer than it was. Pity no one could get on the end of it. Would have been nice to see Purrington toe one in last second!

Scoham · March 2022

golfaddick said:

Chippycafc said:

Had a fantastic day in the boardroom yesterday and spoke to Sangaards son after the game. He was very approachable and said all there focus is on a proper recruitment drive now and for the start of next season.

Thanks to Swisdom for yesterday, top man and his family.

Can I therefore be critical if, by the start of August, we are still way behind other teams in terms of recruitment & we are still missing the players that will get us into the top 6. My optimum would be to have the core of squad pretty much complete by the time we play Welling in pre-season (usually around 10th-15th July) with just a few fringe players/ loans coming in by the start of August.

I got a lot of stick last July when I moaned that we were well behind other teams like ipswich & Wigan & was told to "be patient" and to trust the recruitment team. Unfortunately I have been proved right. I don't want to be proved right again.

Fine to be critical if it’s realistic - even Ipswich and Wigan made several signings in late August. Agree we should have a core in place by Welling but it’s likely we’ll be after a few more until the end of the window, including one or two who go on to become key players. From what TS has said they’re aiming for the loans to be the squad players rather than the main signings.

robinofottershaw · March 2022

Dazzler21 said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

I would like to remind some people that Gunter made a great clearance to stop a certain goal unless they think it was somebody else.

A fantastic almost goal line clearance. Read it perfectly.

Yes I said to my wife at the time "Did you realise Gunter actually made an interception"!!!!

EveshamAddick · March 2022

I watched MOTD for the first time this season this morning and probably this was the first time for maybe 5 years. Over the same period I’ve probably seen 70 or 80 Charlton games, mostly on Charlton TV. I watched from Liverpool v West Ham. Other games were Newcastle v Brighton, Palace Wolves and Leicester Leeds. So much for the greatest league in the world. Mistakes all over
the park, players missing the target or failing to score from within the 6 yard box. Keepers flapping at the ball or coming for and then missing crosses. Defenders turning forwards inside to shoot and defenders backing off attackers instead of tackling. Goal mouth scrambles, clearances played straight back to the opposition, pointless head tennis.

In short, I didn’t see much that was all that different from the Charlton games I’ve seen over the last few years. I’m wondering if those saying this is the worst Charlton team since (insert date) just have too high expectations for the quality they are expecting. Having seen what some of the premier league is able to offer this morning, it really wasn’t much different.

Ben18 · March 2022

mendonca said:

balham red said:

I'd also agree Dobson has been great for us. Does anyone think there is a chance he may be part of our problem also though?

It's obvious our fundamental problem is we can't pass it from our defence through our midfield. With Dobson our only withdrawn midfielder, the defenders are limited to passing amongst themselves, to Dobbo, or hitting it long.

Dobson isn't awful on the ball, but could there be an argument to say he isn't capable of linking our playing out?

Or do we need Fraser/JFC to drop alongside him to give us more options?

I accept when Clare is playing it also expands our options.

But this is a real problem for us, and certainly was yesterday.

I think the question you need to ask yourself is why Gilbey and Lee stopped performing and killed off our midfield unit. Dobson is the only one who continued to perform and his passing/switching of play is absolutely fine for me in L1.

The surrounding players have simply not performed their role.

Gilbey and Lee 'stopped performing' around the same time our strikers started dropping like flies.

Braziliance · March 2022

Dobson is a very decent passer, seen him switch the play and do a number of cross field balls. The only player in the squad I can say with 100% certainty is good enough and reliable enough to be in a promotion winning side. He has dramatically improved since joining us.

It’s a pipe dream (lol) but I would love to see us have a midfield two of him and Panutche Camara from Plymouth. Two traditional centre mids who can also play a bit, expect they both may have offers from the championship though, particularly Camara

LenGlover · March 2022

9 points above the bottom 4 11 games left and we have Gillingham, Doncaster, Morecambe and Wimbledon amongst those 11. If we win or avoid defeat in those matches it should be beyond the bottom 4 to make up a 9 point deficit on us.

Regrettable to be talking in such terms in league 1 but we are where we are which is a whole lot better than where we were under Adkins.

Jacko is getting a lot of flak on this forum but I think he deserves credit given the shit show he inherited from Adkins and the injuries of late to our forwards.

Covered End · March 2022

EveshamAddick said:

I watched MOTD for the first time this season this morning and probably this was the first time for maybe 5 years. Over the same period I’ve probably seen 70 or 80 Charlton games, mostly on Charlton TV. I watched from Liverpool v West Ham. Other games were Newcastle v Brighton, Palace Wolves and Leicester Leeds. So much for the greatest league in the world. Mistakes all over
the park, players missing the target or failing to score from within the 6 yard box. Keepers flapping at the ball or coming for and then missing crosses. Defenders turning forwards inside to shoot and defenders backing off attackers instead of tackling. Goal mouth scrambles, clearances played straight back to the opposition, pointless head tennis.

In short, I didn’t see much that was all that different from the Charlton games I’ve seen over the last few years. I’m wondering if those saying this is the worst Charlton team since (insert date) just have too high expectations for the quality they are expecting. Having seen what some of the premier league is able to offer this morning, it really wasn’t much different.

You don't see any difference between Charlton and the Premier League?

JamesSeed · March 2022

EveshamAddick said:

I watched MOTD for the first time this season this morning and probably this was the first time for maybe 5 years. Over the same period I’ve probably seen 70 or 80 Charlton games, mostly on Charlton TV. I watched from Liverpool v West Ham. Other games were Newcastle v Brighton, Palace Wolves and Leicester Leeds. So much for the greatest league in the world. Mistakes all over
the park, players missing the target or failing to score from within the 6 yard box. Keepers flapping at the ball or coming for and then missing crosses. Defenders turning forwards inside to shoot and defenders backing off attackers instead of tackling. Goal mouth scrambles, clearances played straight back to the opposition, pointless head tennis.

In short, I didn’t see much that was all that different from the Charlton games I’ve seen over the last few years. I’m wondering if those saying this is the worst Charlton team since (insert date) just have too high expectations for the quality they are expecting. Having seen what some of the premier league is able to offer this morning, it really wasn’t much different.

My Arsenal mate took me to their match against Burnley a few weeks ago. It was a 0-0 draw, and probably more boring than any match I’d seen all season. There was lots of short passes played in tight areas that didn’t really go anywhere. And there was more long ball stuff than I was expecting. No dribbling at all, until Arsenal brought Nketiah on for the last 25 mins.

I took him to the Wimbledon game at The Valley and he really enjoyed it. There were five goals of course.

Obviously most of their matches will be much better than the Burnley game. You’d certainly hope so if you’re shelling out over a grand for a season ticket.

Generally though I tend to find that highlight shows like MOTD make the gulf in class look quite big, albeit they cut out the boring bits.

rananegra · March 2022

JamesSeed said:

EveshamAddick said:

I watched MOTD for the first time this season this morning and probably this was the first time for maybe 5 years. Over the same period I’ve probably seen 70 or 80 Charlton games, mostly on Charlton TV. I watched from Liverpool v West Ham. Other games were Newcastle v Brighton, Palace Wolves and Leicester Leeds. So much for the greatest league in the world. Mistakes all over
the park, players missing the target or failing to score from within the 6 yard box. Keepers flapping at the ball or coming for and then missing crosses. Defenders turning forwards inside to shoot and defenders backing off attackers instead of tackling. Goal mouth scrambles, clearances played straight back to the opposition, pointless head tennis.

In short, I didn’t see much that was all that different from the Charlton games I’ve seen over the last few years. I’m wondering if those saying this is the worst Charlton team since (insert date) just have too high expectations for the quality they are expecting. Having seen what some of the premier league is able to offer this morning, it really wasn’t much different.

My Arsenal mate took me to their match against Burnley a few weeks ago. It was a 0-0 draw, and probably more boring than any match I’d seen all season. There was lots of short passes played in tight areas that didn’t really go anywhere. And there was more long ball stuff than I was expecting. No dribbling at all, until Arsenal brought Nketiah on for the last 25 mins.
I took him to the Wimbledon game at The Valley and he really enjoyed it. There were five goals of course.

Obviously most of their matches will be much better than the Burnley game. You’d certainly hope so if you’re shelling out over a grand for a season ticket.

Generally though I tend to find that highlight shows like MOTD make the gulf in class look quite big, albeit they cut out the boring bits.

I was at that Arsenal-Burnley game and it was a masterclass from Burnley in stopping Arsenal doing what they want and trying to catch them on the break. I was expecting Burnley to be hard to beat, but Arsenal ran out of ideas. It was much better football than our 0-0 against Sunderland, though I was a lot more invested in our game. I expect I won't remember much of either in a few weeks time.

Redmidland · March 2022

Chippycafc said:

Redmidland said:

Chippycafc said:

Had a fantastic day in the boardroom yesterday and spoke to Sangaards son after the game. He was very approachable and said all there focus is on a proper recruitment drive now and for the start of next season.

Thanks to Swisdom for yesterday, top man and his family.

Hi @Chippycafc I am interested in your comment. Did you get the feeling that this summers transfers dealing will be better and quicker than last? Also was there a feeling of disappointment at the shambles of last summer? Thanks in advance mate.

Hi Mate

There were a few of us asking questions in a quite informal manner. They felt there were mistakes made especially with the fitness of some individuals, but wouldnt name which is fair enough.

They have highlighted individuals already and have been looking into their backgrounds and suitability for us as a football club, He siad there is budget for the right players but wont bank roll the club in persuit of promotion.

The feeling we got was it would be a lot better.

Thanks for the response mate, much appreciated. I guess we will see soon enough, I still support TS, for now, but an early indication of intent would be very welcome!

Croydon · March 2022

No difference between Charlton and the Premier League 😂

eaststandmike · March 2022

blackpool72 said:

cabbles said:

The best thing about y’day was a point closer to @blackpool72 not having to rename himself @Ipswich22 as a result of us going down 50 years to that fateful day. We should be okay

Indeed we should be safe.

As for having to rename myself I dread to think what people on the political threads would like to call me
🤣🤣

Don't talk to me about renaming, I will never be known as alancurbishleystandmike

MuttleyCAFC · March 2022

Ben18 said:

mendonca said:

balham red said:

I'd also agree Dobson has been great for us. Does anyone think there is a chance he may be part of our problem also though?

It's obvious our fundamental problem is we can't pass it from our defence through our midfield. With Dobson our only withdrawn midfielder, the defenders are limited to passing amongst themselves, to Dobbo, or hitting it long.

Dobson isn't awful on the ball, but could there be an argument to say he isn't capable of linking our playing out?

Or do we need Fraser/JFC to drop alongside him to give us more options?

I accept when Clare is playing it also expands our options.

But this is a real problem for us, and certainly was yesterday.

I think the question you need to ask yourself is why Gilbey and Lee stopped performing and killed off our midfield unit. Dobson is the only one who continued to perform and his passing/switching of play is absolutely fine for me in L1.

The surrounding players have simply not performed their role.

Gilbey and Lee 'stopped performing' around the same time our strikers started dropping like flies.

This is a very important point.

mendonca · March 2022

Ben18 said:

mendonca said:

balham red said:

I'd also agree Dobson has been great for us. Does anyone think there is a chance he may be part of our problem also though?

It's obvious our fundamental problem is we can't pass it from our defence through our midfield. With Dobson our only withdrawn midfielder, the defenders are limited to passing amongst themselves, to Dobbo, or hitting it long.

Dobson isn't awful on the ball, but could there be an argument to say he isn't capable of linking our playing out?

Or do we need Fraser/JFC to drop alongside him to give us more options?

I accept when Clare is playing it also expands our options.

But this is a real problem for us, and certainly was yesterday.

I think the question you need to ask yourself is why Gilbey and Lee stopped performing and killed off our midfield unit. Dobson is the only one who continued to perform and his passing/switching of play is absolutely fine for me in L1.

The surrounding players have simply not performed their role.

Gilbey and Lee 'stopped performing' around the same time our strikers started dropping like flies.

Not hiding when the going gets tough/ controlling the ball with the first touch expected from a CM / being able to pass to another player / taking responsibility for testing the goalkeeper / getting a corner above the first defender - they are accountable for these characteristics that crept into their game. If players don't take responsibility for their own game, they are not the type that will ever get you beyond mediocrity. It's what Stockley and JJ have been hinting at in recent interviews.

MuttleyCAFC · March 2022

I view it differently. If a player never shows me what they have got I suspect they might not have it. When I see it, even if they stop showing me, I know they have it because I have seen it. Then it is a question of why? If you can answer that, you are halfway there. I think Gilbey has a lot to offer us. No he isn't playing well but I see an important player for us there and certainly won't write him off.

Leuth · March 2022

Gilbey’s level is upper League Two/lower League One. He had a stormer against a completely shambolic Ipswich Town and has been far short of a promotion-chasing standard in just about every other game. He runs around a lot, loses the ball a lot and can't pass very well; he also refuses to participate in build-up play beyond passing it out wide sometimes (you might call this hiding); he's also not the sort to win the ball back. He isn't a squad option in any serious promotion effort.

MuttleyCAFC · March 2022

Well I disagree. Time may prove which one of us is right. At least I use the word think and state an opinion as not as if it was a fact. Which it is not.

Oggy Red · March 2022

Leuth said:

Gilbey’s level is upper League Two/lower League One. He had a stormer against a completely shambolic Ipswich Town and has been far short of a promotion-chasing standard in just about every other game. He runs around a lot, loses the ball a lot and can't pass very well; he also refuses to participate in build-up play beyond passing it out wide sometimes (you might call this hiding); he's also not the sort to win the ball back. He isn't a squad option in any serious promotion effort.

Despite what we've seen from time to time, Gilbey is useless. Leuth said so.

Chunes · March 2022

I think Gilbey has been here for quite a while now and has had a handful of good games. Another player that needs to have excuses made for him, which IMO is not good enough and having too many of these players is why we are where we are.

ValleyGary · March 2022

balham red said:

I'd also agree Dobson has been great for us. Does anyone think there is a chance he may be part of our problem also though?

It's obvious our fundamental problem is we can't pass it from our defence through our midfield. With Dobson our only withdrawn midfielder, the defenders are limited to passing amongst themselves, to Dobbo, or hitting it long.

Dobson isn't awful on the ball, but could there be an argument to say he isn't capable of linking our playing out?

Or do we need Fraser/JFC to drop alongside him to give us more options?

I accept when Clare is playing it also expands our options.

But this is a real problem for us, and certainly was yesterday.

I think its a fair point that we are limited to passing into Dobson but that isnt his fault. In fact, if you took him out, then the situation would get worse.

The problem is that a midfield, especially a central three should be interchangeable. It is basic school boy stuff that is if one drops deep to receive the ball and is marked, then he goes out the hole and the other CM comes in. It creates options for us and problems for the opposition midfielders. Gilbey and Lee have the capability, but neither seem interested in doing it or have been told to get further up the pitch. You also need ball playing CB's that are comfortable in possession. Someone like Jason Pearce, for all his defensive abilities, is not one of those. Famewo can be, but is totally devoid of any confidence at the moment. Innis and Lavelle probably can, but you need consistency playing to get into a system.

No doubt JFC will help with this because before he got injured he was great at it.

th0rryy · March 2022

Whilst I was glad we avoided defeat in this game, this game, sadly, reminded me a lot of several of the Adkins-led games from earlier in the season. JJ will naturally point to the clean sheet and the battling performance, but this game easily could have been another capitulation if Sunderland had taken any of their free headers in the box in the first half. Our confidence is clingfilm thin and any knock to that with this current side usually leads to getting turned over. This was the kind of game for Pearce, Dobson and Stockley to show their battle, but once again, we are looking fragile at the back and toothless upfront. I feel that is JJ didn't have any Charlton connection, he'd be in for a lot more stick.

There is some good (well, enough to be threatening L1 playoffs) in this squad, but there's not much. In general, I think we lack a lot of footballing intelligence in creative areas and need some smarter players who make more incisive runs and are more confident with the ball in the final third. Fraser is a good start in that regard, but we won't see the real benefit of him until the start of next season. I'd give anything for another Washington-esque player that knows how to stretch defences but can finish better too. We've been banging on about our lack of solid full-backs for a while, but now we need wing-backs, that need has grown greater. This game really just highlighted the square pegs trying to go into round holes.

I hope that JJ manages to squeeze out enough points to ensure we don't get dragged any closer to the relegation mire, but this season has been awful. Games like this should have been exciting, business-end of the season affairs, but instead, we are just dragging our knuckles over the line. Plenty of these players are fully aware they are not going to be here next season and don't care. It's awful we are in this situation as of the end of February. The squad can be good enough with 4-5 new signings and some decent loans (not the wasted ones we used in January), but the next season already feels a while away yet...

YTS1978 · March 2022

Gilbey is a funny one. He was God awful last season but reappeared for Nige's last 10 games and looked sort of okay. This season he should have "kicked on", but he got covid and that set him back a bit. Jacko put some faith in him and he was very good for a handful of games. But now he's just completely anonymous! That's not down to a lack of forwards it's his attitude. He just doesn't seem bothered! I'd love to be proved wrong but he's been here two seasons and has done bugger all. He's a 4th division footballer who flatters to deceive I'm afraid.

Croydon · March 2022

Just look at Gilbey's stats, hugely overrated player

Dazzler21 · March 2022

Chunes said:

I think Gilbey has been here for quite a while now and has had a handful of good games. Another player that needs to have excuses made for him, which IMO is not good enough and having too many of these players is why we are where we are.

Used to at least have work rate, but not even that these days.