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Post Match thread: Charlton Athletic vs Sunderland | Saturday 5th March 2022
Comments
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I’ll never forget the last 60 seconds lol.rananegra said:
I was at that Arsenal-Burnley game and it was a masterclass from Burnley in stopping Arsenal doing what they want and trying to catch them on the break. I was expecting Burnley to be hard to beat, but Arsenal ran out of ideas. It was much better football than our 0-0 against Sunderland, though I was a lot more invested in our game. I expect I won't remember much of either in a few weeks time.JamesSeed said:
My Arsenal mate took me to their match against Burnley a few weeks ago. It was a 0-0 draw, and probably more boring than any match I’d seen all season. There was lots of short passes played in tight areas that didn’t really go anywhere. And there was more long ball stuff than I was expecting. No dribbling at all, until Arsenal brought Nketiah on for the last 25 mins.EveshamAddick said:I watched MOTD for the first time this season this morning and probably this was the first time for maybe 5 years. Over the same period I’ve probably seen 70 or 80 Charlton games, mostly on Charlton TV. I watched from Liverpool v West Ham. Other games were Newcastle v Brighton, Palace Wolves and Leicester Leeds. So much for the greatest league in the world. Mistakes all over
the park, players missing the target or failing to score from within the 6 yard box. Keepers flapping at the ball or coming for and then missing crosses. Defenders turning forwards inside to shoot and defenders backing off attackers instead of tackling. Goal mouth scrambles, clearances played straight back to the opposition, pointless head tennis.In short, I didn’t see much that was all that different from the Charlton games I’ve seen over the last few years. I’m wondering if those saying this is the worst Charlton team since (insert date) just have too high expectations for the quality they are expecting. Having seen what some of the premier league is able to offer this morning, it really wasn’t much different.I took him to the Wimbledon game at The Valley and he really enjoyed it. There were five goals of course.Obviously most of their matches will be much better than the Burnley game. You’d certainly hope so if you’re shelling out over a grand for a season ticket.Generally though I tend to find that highlight shows like MOTD make the gulf in class look quite big, albeit they cut out the boring bits.Quite enjoyed the second half yesterday, because of the amount of effort we put in.But as you mentioned, investment is key.0 -
Understand and fair point. For me, there are many more traits that are required; leading to a successful player. It's not always easy to answer but if you give them too much slack, you will live in hope rather than a player who wants to do deliver on a regular basis. Hunger, determination and focus are very important traits to form a consistent player, not one that fancies turning up when the going is good, or if he has enough gel in his hair to look good ;-0MuttleyCAFC said:I view it differently. If a player never shows me what they have got I suspect they might not have it. When I see it, even if they stop showing me, I know they have it because I have seen it. Then it is a question of why? If you can answer that, you are halfway there. I think Gilbey has a lot to offer us. No he isn't playing well but I see an important player for us there and certainly won't write him off.1 -
I think Gilbey is slightly over rated because he looks reasonably athletic and has quite an elegant style. But the number of times you see him running with the ball and he loses control is worrying. His first touch is average at best, and I suspect his pass completion rate is nothing special.Perhaps he needs a kick in the ars@ to get himself going.3
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Gilbey’s 27 and spent the majority of his career in L1. Morgan’s also under contract next season, for that reason I hope we don’t sign Lee permanently. Two of them as squad players is enough, especially when we’ve also got Clare as an option in midfield.5
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This is more trying to run before you can walk stuff though. If we were an established Championship club I could totally see the logic.Scoham said:
Fine to be critical if it’s realistic - even Ipswich and Wigan made several signings in late August. Agree we should have a core in place by Welling but it’s likely we’ll be after a few more until the end of the window, including one or two who go on to become key players. From what TS has said they’re aiming for the loans to be the squad players rather than the main signings.golfaddick said:
Can I therefore be critical if, by the start of August, we are still way behind other teams in terms of recruitment & we are still missing the players that will get us into the top 6. My optimum would be to have the core of squad pretty much complete by the time we play Welling in pre-season (usually around 10th-15th July) with just a few fringe players/ loans coming in by the start of August.Chippycafc said:Had a fantastic day in the boardroom yesterday and spoke to Sangaards son after the game. He was very approachable and said all there focus is on a proper recruitment drive now and for the start of next season.
Thanks to Swisdom for yesterday, top man and his family.
I got a lot of stick last July when I moaned that we were well behind other teams like ipswich & Wigan & was told to "be patient" and to trust the recruitment team. Unfortunately I have been proved right. I don't want to be proved right again.
You spend your money on young players that you can fatten up and either sell or be part of the squad for a long time and make the numbers up with loans and free transfers. Sounds like a good plan.
But we aren't. We aren't going to get promoted if our loan signings are like Lee and Shinnie types. Yes you run the risk of a Matt Smith or two but that strategy wouldn't allow us players like Dasilva, Maatsen, Millar, Cullen, Bielik, Millar and Gallagher. Players we simply could not, under any circumstances, sign any other way.
In an ideal world it makes sense, long term sense. Thomas is now about 20 million in the hole and what's he actually got to show for it? Dobson on a fast running out contract?0 -
I maintain this Matt Smith wasn't bad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Smith_(footballer,_born_2000)
...although I wonder what the Doncaster fans think of him given they're in the drop-zone. A lone light of a bad season, or a reason for the decline? He's played almost every game, which tells me he's likelier the former0 -
Gilbey just doesn't impact the game enough for me, whether in goals, assists, tackles or just Matt Holland style business, keeping play ticking overJamesSeed said:I think Gilbey is slightly over rated because he looks reasonably athletic and has quite an elegant style. But the number of times you see him running with the ball and he loses control is worrying. His first touch is average at best, and I suspect his pass completion rate is nothing special.Perhaps he needs a kick in the ars@ to get himself going.2 -
Yeh, you make some good points.Cafc43v3r said:
This is more trying to run before you can walk stuff though. If we were an established Championship club I could totally see the logic.Scoham said:
Fine to be critical if it’s realistic - even Ipswich and Wigan made several signings in late August. Agree we should have a core in place by Welling but it’s likely we’ll be after a few more until the end of the window, including one or two who go on to become key players. From what TS has said they’re aiming for the loans to be the squad players rather than the main signings.golfaddick said:
Can I therefore be critical if, by the start of August, we are still way behind other teams in terms of recruitment & we are still missing the players that will get us into the top 6. My optimum would be to have the core of squad pretty much complete by the time we play Welling in pre-season (usually around 10th-15th July) with just a few fringe players/ loans coming in by the start of August.Chippycafc said:Had a fantastic day in the boardroom yesterday and spoke to Sangaards son after the game. He was very approachable and said all there focus is on a proper recruitment drive now and for the start of next season.
Thanks to Swisdom for yesterday, top man and his family.
I got a lot of stick last July when I moaned that we were well behind other teams like ipswich & Wigan & was told to "be patient" and to trust the recruitment team. Unfortunately I have been proved right. I don't want to be proved right again.
You spend your money on young players that you can fatten up and either sell or be part of the squad for a long time and make the numbers up with loans and free transfers. Sounds like a good plan.
But we aren't. We aren't going to get promoted if our loan signings are like Lee and Shinnie types. Yes you run the risk of a Matt Smith or two but that strategy wouldn't allow us players like Dasilva, Maatsen, Millar, Cullen, Bielik, Millar and Gallagher. Players we simply could not, under any circumstances, sign any other way.
In an ideal world it makes sense, long term sense. Thomas is now about 20 million in the hole and what's he actually got to show for it? Dobson on a fast running out contract?
I've been thinking for a while that Tommy's 'Softly, softly catchee Monkey' approach makes much more sense in the Championship.
Not only in the sense that you don't want to be like those clubs that chuck millions at a desperate attempt to buy their way to the promised land of the PL, but also because you are much more likely to keep the fans on board.
I thinks most fans would accept sensible and sustainable growth if they are watching a decent standard of football and knowing that there is an ultimate desire to get promoted.
That does not apply in the lower reaches of League One when we are watching dogshit football.
We need to get out of this league ASAP, and whilst nobody expects us to throw caution to the wind with our spending, I do think we need to do what is necessary firstly by "making it happen" as far as getting out top transfer targets and secondly as you say, by reinforcing that quality with top quality loans.
If we are frugal and half-arsed we could be in this League for years and the hardcore fanbase with dwindle substantially.
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Like so many of our players he lacks consistency from game to game. I'm afraid we have to pay more for players that have more than the occasional good spells.JamesSeed said:I think Gilbey is slightly over rated because he looks reasonably athletic and has quite an elegant style. But the number of times you see him running with the ball and he loses control is worrying. His first touch is average at best, and I suspect his pass completion rate is nothing special.Perhaps he needs a kick in the ars@ to get himself going.2 -
Did anyone else get the impression that Burstow was holding back during the game? Or was it just me? One wonders what the instructions from Chelsea might be1
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It is the way he plays. He hasn't got that extra 10% yet. This will be a good education for him. Not sure what we are getting out of it though.sm said:Did anyone else get the impression that Burstow was holding back during the game? Or was it just me? One wonders what the instructions from Chelsea might be0 -
The only time I saw him giving 100% was towards the end of the Oxford debacle. He was waving his arms at the other players to get them to try harder. He then won the ball on the touchline, cut inside, and tested the keeper. Looked quite angry, looked like a different player.MuttleyCAFC said:
It is the way he plays. He hasn't got that extra 10% yet. This will be a good education for him. Not sure what we are getting out of it though.sm said:Did anyone else get the impression that Burstow was holding back during the game? Or was it just me? One wonders what the instructions from Chelsea might be0 -
I think he is giving 100% of what he currently has, the 10% is something he needs to develop. He has only just broken into the side and wouldn't be anywhere near it if we didn't have injuries. Personally, especially with Stockley being back now, I would play one up front with an attacking midfielder behind him until Washington can start. I don't want Jacko sacked but it is a major criticism I have of him, not adapting the formation out of pragmatism, in difficult circumstances I accept.1
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Why do we pay our players considerably more than MK Dons? Their players seem to have more than the occasional good game.sm said:
Like so many of our players he lacks consistency from game to game. I'm afraid we have to pay more for players that have more than the occasional good spells.JamesSeed said:I think Gilbey is slightly over rated because he looks reasonably athletic and has quite an elegant style. But the number of times you see him running with the ball and he loses control is worrying. His first touch is average at best, and I suspect his pass completion rate is nothing special.Perhaps he needs a kick in the ars@ to get himself going.
We pay Gilbey more than any current MK Dons player gets (from MK Dons, I assume some of their loans get more in total).
Paying isn't the problem.0 -
We’ll get promoted if the squad is good enough, whether our best players are loans or permanents. You’re comparing to when RD owned the club and we barely spent any money on fees. Powell had a bit of money to spend and brought in several players on 3 year contracts, with minimal long term loans. I’m sure if you looked across the division there will be clubs who made good signings on long term permanent deals - just because we largely got it wrong in the summer doesn’t mean it’s not possible.Cafc43v3r said:
This is more trying to run before you can walk stuff though. If we were an established Championship club I could totally see the logic.Scoham said:
Fine to be critical if it’s realistic - even Ipswich and Wigan made several signings in late August. Agree we should have a core in place by Welling but it’s likely we’ll be after a few more until the end of the window, including one or two who go on to become key players. From what TS has said they’re aiming for the loans to be the squad players rather than the main signings.golfaddick said:
Can I therefore be critical if, by the start of August, we are still way behind other teams in terms of recruitment & we are still missing the players that will get us into the top 6. My optimum would be to have the core of squad pretty much complete by the time we play Welling in pre-season (usually around 10th-15th July) with just a few fringe players/ loans coming in by the start of August.Chippycafc said:Had a fantastic day in the boardroom yesterday and spoke to Sangaards son after the game. He was very approachable and said all there focus is on a proper recruitment drive now and for the start of next season.
Thanks to Swisdom for yesterday, top man and his family.
I got a lot of stick last July when I moaned that we were well behind other teams like ipswich & Wigan & was told to "be patient" and to trust the recruitment team. Unfortunately I have been proved right. I don't want to be proved right again.
You spend your money on young players that you can fatten up and either sell or be part of the squad for a long time and make the numbers up with loans and free transfers. Sounds like a good plan.
But we aren't. We aren't going to get promoted if our loan signings are like Lee and Shinnie types. Yes you run the risk of a Matt Smith or two but that strategy wouldn't allow us players like Dasilva, Maatsen, Millar, Cullen, Bielik, Millar and Gallagher. Players we simply could not, under any circumstances, sign any other way.
In an ideal world it makes sense, long term sense. Thomas is now about 20 million in the hole and what's he actually got to show for it? Dobson on a fast running out contract?
I wouldn’t say all of them will be with the plan to develop and sell on, Aneke and Fraser don’t fall into that category.
It was my assumption that in the main the loans will be squad players. I’m sure they’re not ruling out some becoming key players if the right player is available on loan.
Whatever happens it’ll be an interesting summer, and hopefully an exciting one.0 -
I don’t understand. TS said we intend to buy two ‘mark’ players and maybe four or five this summer. Of the two, one is mature. The others are young good players. We also intend signing two or three young loans.Cafc43v3r said:
This is more trying to run before you can walk stuff though. If we were an established Championship club I could totally see the logic.Scoham said:
Fine to be critical if it’s realistic - even Ipswich and Wigan made several signings in late August. Agree we should have a core in place by Welling but it’s likely we’ll be after a few more until the end of the window, including one or two who go on to become key players. From what TS has said they’re aiming for the loans to be the squad players rather than the main signings.golfaddick said:
Can I therefore be critical if, by the start of August, we are still way behind other teams in terms of recruitment & we are still missing the players that will get us into the top 6. My optimum would be to have the core of squad pretty much complete by the time we play Welling in pre-season (usually around 10th-15th July) with just a few fringe players/ loans coming in by the start of August.Chippycafc said:Had a fantastic day in the boardroom yesterday and spoke to Sangaards son after the game. He was very approachable and said all there focus is on a proper recruitment drive now and for the start of next season.
Thanks to Swisdom for yesterday, top man and his family.
I got a lot of stick last July when I moaned that we were well behind other teams like ipswich & Wigan & was told to "be patient" and to trust the recruitment team. Unfortunately I have been proved right. I don't want to be proved right again.
You spend your money on young players that you can fatten up and either sell or be part of the squad for a long time and make the numbers up with loans and free transfers. Sounds like a good plan.
But we aren't. We aren't going to get promoted if our loan signings are like Lee and Shinnie types. Yes you run the risk of a Matt Smith or two but that strategy wouldn't allow us players like Dasilva, Maatsen, Millar, Cullen, Bielik, Millar and Gallagher. Players we simply could not, under any circumstances, sign any other way.
In an ideal world it makes sense, long term sense. Thomas is now about 20 million in the hole and what's he actually got to show for it? Dobson on a fast running out contract?We did sign Dasilva, Maatsen, Millar, Cullen, Bielik, and Gallagher. And now we have the man who signed those back in the main seat.How do you conclude that we will not be signing loans of this quality again?What do you think of the quality of the players we have targeted?0 -
Personally don't think that Millar and Maatsen deserve to be in the same bracket as the rest of that list. They were both criticised quite a lot while they were actually here.Redrobo said:
I don’t understand. TS said we intend to buy two ‘mark’ players and maybe four or five this summer. Of the two, one is mature. The others are young good players. We also intend signing two or three young loans.Cafc43v3r said:
This is more trying to run before you can walk stuff though. If we were an established Championship club I could totally see the logic.Scoham said:
Fine to be critical if it’s realistic - even Ipswich and Wigan made several signings in late August. Agree we should have a core in place by Welling but it’s likely we’ll be after a few more until the end of the window, including one or two who go on to become key players. From what TS has said they’re aiming for the loans to be the squad players rather than the main signings.golfaddick said:
Can I therefore be critical if, by the start of August, we are still way behind other teams in terms of recruitment & we are still missing the players that will get us into the top 6. My optimum would be to have the core of squad pretty much complete by the time we play Welling in pre-season (usually around 10th-15th July) with just a few fringe players/ loans coming in by the start of August.Chippycafc said:Had a fantastic day in the boardroom yesterday and spoke to Sangaards son after the game. He was very approachable and said all there focus is on a proper recruitment drive now and for the start of next season.
Thanks to Swisdom for yesterday, top man and his family.
I got a lot of stick last July when I moaned that we were well behind other teams like ipswich & Wigan & was told to "be patient" and to trust the recruitment team. Unfortunately I have been proved right. I don't want to be proved right again.
You spend your money on young players that you can fatten up and either sell or be part of the squad for a long time and make the numbers up with loans and free transfers. Sounds like a good plan.
But we aren't. We aren't going to get promoted if our loan signings are like Lee and Shinnie types. Yes you run the risk of a Matt Smith or two but that strategy wouldn't allow us players like Dasilva, Maatsen, Millar, Cullen, Bielik, Millar and Gallagher. Players we simply could not, under any circumstances, sign any other way.
In an ideal world it makes sense, long term sense. Thomas is now about 20 million in the hole and what's he actually got to show for it? Dobson on a fast running out contract?We did sign Dasilva, Maatsen, Millar, Cullen, Bielik, and Gallagher. And now we have the man who signed those back in the main seat.How do you conclude that we will not be signing loans of this quality again?What do you think of the quality of the players we have targeted?0
