P&O sack/make redundant 800 staff on the spot
Comments
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Nothing I believe. Similarly nothing to P&O's Dutch employees. Both countries have legislated against "fire & rehire" policies as far as I know.SE10Addick said:What's happened to the French workers? Does anybody know?
I can't see any bonfires, mass blockages of the motorway or any sunk ferries so assume it's business as usual on that side?
I will never use P&O Ferries or any company owned by the same people. Poor Dover is on its knees already.
Here? Not so much...
"The government has blocked a new law to curb businesses' ability to lay staff off and take them back on different - often worse - pay and terms..."
BBC News - Fire-and-rehire: Government blocks law to curb the practicehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58997916
As for this being unrelated to Brexit, this might be convenient for Leavers to believe, but it's beyond unrealistic to think the massive hit to exports as a result of Leaving, combined with the collapse of the land bridge to the EU from Ireland hasn't had any impact. It's also a sign of employee relations to come outside the EU.
https://www.ft.com/content/55f116d8-6f3b-400a-825a-94be4d379db0
*this thread should be in the HoC group*11 -
.......I've got a empty house sitting just outside Uzerche (19140). Shame it needs so much work still doing on it, otherwise people welcome to pitch up there0
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No mate, Dover-Calais. We're only going down to Normandy.Gribbo said:
I prefer the DFDS Newhaven / Dieppe route anyway. It might be a 4 hour crossing, but it takes quite a bit of the journey and, if you're wanting to avoid Paris, it's less of a detour.DaveMehmet said:
Me neither. Used them countless times (usually at least twice a year) but never again. I booked the ferry for our French summer holiday via DFDS this morning. Never used them so don't know what they're like.SE10Addick said:What's happened to the French workers? Does anybody know?
I can't see any bonfires, mass blockages of the motorway or any sunk ferries so assume it's business as usual on that side?
I will never use P&O Ferries or any company owned by the same people. Poor Dover is on its knees already.
Assuming you're coming south that is1 -
The cheaper labour will probably mean P & O can undercut the competition and so win back business lost due to boycotts.0
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No, but I know enough about enough of them to not trust any if them, even the ones who know the difference between “no” and “know”.ecclesaddick said:charltonkeston you no every tory do you?7 -
Well done for not showing the same restraint as everyone else and bombing the thread, potentially closing it down. As long as you've got your point across though, ehBournemouth Addick said:
Nothing I believe. Similarly nothing to P&O's Dutch employees. Both countries have legislated against "fire & rehire" policies as far as I know.SE10Addick said:What's happened to the French workers? Does anybody know?
I can't see any bonfires, mass blockages of the motorway or any sunk ferries so assume it's business as usual on that side?
I will never use P&O Ferries or any company owned by the same people. Poor Dover is on its knees already.
Here? Not so much...
"The government has blocked a new law to curb businesses' ability to lay staff off and take them back on different - often worse - pay and terms..."
BBC News - Fire-and-rehire: Government blocks law to curb the practicehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58997916
As for this being unrelated to Brexit, this might be convenient for Leavers to believe, but it's beyond unrealistic to think the massive hit to exports as a result of Leaving, combined with the collapse of the land bridge to the EU from Ireland hasn't had any impact. It's also a sign of employee relations to come outside the EU.
https://www.ft.com/content/55f116d8-6f3b-400a-825a-94be4d379db0
*this thread should be in the HoC group*
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A huge tragedy behind this is that the leadership of the main union, the RMT, in April 2016 gave their members six reasons for voting leave, and campaigned for leave.
One of the reasons was to protect workers rights which they said were being dismantled by the EU.
Every single one of the six reasons have turned out to be wrong.
The events yesterday attack workers rights on a fundamental level.
The RMT did not outline a solution to the land border with the EU after leave.
It is with bitter shame and embarrassment that a significant member of the TUC aligned itself with all the people who voted leave to destroy the country.
It is ironic that the very treatment they feared by remaining has happened after the vote to leave (which hasn’t happened anyway because of the land border).13 -
Bingo!seth plum said:A huge tragedy behind this is that the leadership of the main union, the RMT, in April 2016 gave their members six reasons for voting leave, and campaigned for leave.
One of the reasons was to protect workers rights which they said were being dismantled by the EU.
Every single one of the six reasons have turned out to be wrong.
The events yesterday attack workers rights on a fundamental level.
The RMT did not outline a solution to the land border with the EU after leave.
It is with bitter shame and embarrassment that a significant member of the TUC aligned itself with all the people who voted leave to destroy the country.
It is ironic that the very treatment they feared by remaining has happened after the vote to leave (which hasn’t happened anyway because of the land border).3 -
Here they come.4
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Could say the same about Labour supporters who know the differance between "if" and "of". I wonder if you are of the view that all Tory supporters are Scum, like your illustrious Deputy Leader.
No, but I know enough about enough of them to not trust any if them, even the ones who know the difference between “no” and “know”.ecclesaddick said:charltonkeston you no every tory do you?6 - Sponsored links:
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It absolutely isn't something that could happen in the EU. Doh!
September 21 2005 12:11 AM
THE boss of Irish Ferries has warned ship crews they will be sacked and the company will abandon its Irish Sea ferry services if they oppose plans to make 543 of them redundant within the next two weeks.
Chief executive Eamonn Rothwell said he intends to boost profits by up to ?20m, mainly by replacing Irish staff with cheaper Eastern European contract staff. The firm is facing tough competition from other ferry services and low-fare airlines.
He said if unions threaten industrial action, the firm "will have no option but to completely exit the operation of ships on the Irish Sea", and will issue compulsory redundancy notices. Those resisting have been told they will only get the basic two-week statutory redundancy.
The firm wants to get rid of Irish crew members, paid about ?430 a week, and engage others from the Baltic for ?140. This would give annual pay savings of over ?15,000 per crew member.
The rates compare with Mr Rothwell's remuneration last year of ?687,000 - ?14,617 a week, or ?375 an hour. It would take a Latvian or Polish crew member, on ?3.60 an hour, over two-and-a-half weeks to earn what Mr Rothwell earns in an hour. He also has a company pension fund valued at ?970,000.
Mr Rothwell warned staff he "is not posturing" and that the offer of redundancy to 'sell' their jobs is "not open for negotiation or reference to any third party" such as the Labour Relations Commission.
Following intervention yesterday by the Irish Congress of Trades Unions, the National Implementation Body will meet tomorrow afternoon to consider the situation. Last year the Irish Continental Group, which includes Irish Ferries, reported operating profits of ?14.6m, a drop of ?10m, mainly due to ?12m restructuring costs on its MV Normandy operation, where Irish staff 'sold' their jobs in an ?8m deal.
Siptu, mainly representing ships' officers, responded on Monday evening by issuing strike notice to take effect early next month. It will be up to management to carry through their threat to abandon Irish Sea services before then to prove it is not "posturing".
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Wierd response. Someone asked a question, I answered it with the reasons behind it.Gribbo said:
Well done for not showing the same restraint as everyone else and bombing the thread, potentially closing it down. As long as you've got your point across though, ehBournemouth Addick said:
Nothing I believe. Similarly nothing to P&O's Dutch employees. Both countries have legislated against "fire & rehire" policies as far as I know.SE10Addick said:What's happened to the French workers? Does anybody know?
I can't see any bonfires, mass blockages of the motorway or any sunk ferries so assume it's business as usual on that side?
I will never use P&O Ferries or any company owned by the same people. Poor Dover is on its knees already.
Here? Not so much...
"The government has blocked a new law to curb businesses' ability to lay staff off and take them back on different - often worse - pay and terms..."
BBC News - Fire-and-rehire: Government blocks law to curb the practicehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58997916
As for this being unrelated to Brexit, this might be convenient for Leavers to believe, but it's beyond unrealistic to think the massive hit to exports as a result of Leaving, combined with the collapse of the land bridge to the EU from Ireland hasn't had any impact. It's also a sign of employee relations to come outside the EU.
https://www.ft.com/content/55f116d8-6f3b-400a-825a-94be4d379db0
*this thread should be in the HoC group*
Others, not me, started commenting on the impact of Brexit on the viability of the company. Others disagreed. I've pointed out two reasons, with sources why, IMO, it has impacted on P&O decision. That's what they themselves are saying.
If this is just a slag off P&O and ignore the regulatory framework and economic environment they are operating in, then crack on I suppose...12 -
I think the information you provide here is appropriate for this thread because P&O are about crossing to places over water, and you have shown how the reaction to the leave vote by the Republic of Ireland has reduced dependence on the Great Britain land bridge.Bournemouth Addick said:
Nothing I believe. Similarly nothing to P&O's Dutch employees. Both countries have legislated against "fire & rehire" policies as far as I know.SE10Addick said:What's happened to the French workers? Does anybody know?
I can't see any bonfires, mass blockages of the motorway or any sunk ferries so assume it's business as usual on that side?
I will never use P&O Ferries or any company owned by the same people. Poor Dover is on its knees already.
Here? Not so much...
"The government has blocked a new law to curb businesses' ability to lay staff off and take them back on different - often worse - pay and terms..."
BBC News - Fire-and-rehire: Government blocks law to curb the practicehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58997916
As for this being unrelated to Brexit, this might be convenient for Leavers to believe, but it's beyond unrealistic to think the massive hit to exports as a result of Leaving, combined with the collapse of the land bridge to the EU from Ireland hasn't had any impact. It's also a sign of employee relations to come outside the EU.
https://www.ft.com/content/55f116d8-6f3b-400a-825a-94be4d379db0
*this thread should be in the HoC group*
A ferry company like P&O has lost business after leave, and this topic is as much about travel from the UK to the EU after the vote to leave as it’s about the diminution of the power of workers under free market capitalism.2 -
Has this issue developed any further in the seventeen years since these events happened, seventeen years in which the UK voted to leave?SporadicAddick said:It absolutely isn't something that could happen in the EU. Doh!September 21 2005 12:11 AM
THE boss of Irish Ferries has warned ship crews they will be sacked and the company will abandon its Irish Sea ferry services if they oppose plans to make 543 of them redundant within the next two weeks.
Chief executive Eamonn Rothwell said he intends to boost profits by up to ?20m, mainly by replacing Irish staff with cheaper Eastern European contract staff. The firm is facing tough competition from other ferry services and low-fare airlines.
He said if unions threaten industrial action, the firm "will have no option but to completely exit the operation of ships on the Irish Sea", and will issue compulsory redundancy notices. Those resisting have been told they will only get the basic two-week statutory redundancy.
The firm wants to get rid of Irish crew members, paid about ?430 a week, and engage others from the Baltic for ?140. This would give annual pay savings of over ?15,000 per crew member.
The rates compare with Mr Rothwell's remuneration last year of ?687,000 - ?14,617 a week, or ?375 an hour. It would take a Latvian or Polish crew member, on ?3.60 an hour, over two-and-a-half weeks to earn what Mr Rothwell earns in an hour. He also has a company pension fund valued at ?970,000.
Mr Rothwell warned staff he "is not posturing" and that the offer of redundancy to 'sell' their jobs is "not open for negotiation or reference to any third party" such as the Labour Relations Commission.
Following intervention yesterday by the Irish Congress of Trades Unions, the National Implementation Body will meet tomorrow afternoon to consider the situation. Last year the Irish Continental Group, which includes Irish Ferries, reported operating profits of ?14.6m, a drop of ?10m, mainly due to ?12m restructuring costs on its MV Normandy operation, where Irish staff 'sold' their jobs in an ?8m deal.
Siptu, mainly representing ships' officers, responded on Monday evening by issuing strike notice to take effect early next month. It will be up to management to carry through their threat to abandon Irish Sea services before then to prove it is not "posturing".
I think you may well find that issues of sea travel to and from the Republic of Ireland have changed since 2016.2 -
Well yes, it did develop - they sacked 140 seafarers and replaced them with cheaper labour.seth plum said:
Has this issue developed any further in the seventeen years since these events happened, seventeen years in which the UK voted to leave?SporadicAddick said:It absolutely isn't something that could happen in the EU. Doh!September 21 2005 12:11 AM
THE boss of Irish Ferries has warned ship crews they will be sacked and the company will abandon its Irish Sea ferry services if they oppose plans to make 543 of them redundant within the next two weeks.
Chief executive Eamonn Rothwell said he intends to boost profits by up to ?20m, mainly by replacing Irish staff with cheaper Eastern European contract staff. The firm is facing tough competition from other ferry services and low-fare airlines.
He said if unions threaten industrial action, the firm "will have no option but to completely exit the operation of ships on the Irish Sea", and will issue compulsory redundancy notices. Those resisting have been told they will only get the basic two-week statutory redundancy.
The firm wants to get rid of Irish crew members, paid about ?430 a week, and engage others from the Baltic for ?140. This would give annual pay savings of over ?15,000 per crew member.
The rates compare with Mr Rothwell's remuneration last year of ?687,000 - ?14,617 a week, or ?375 an hour. It would take a Latvian or Polish crew member, on ?3.60 an hour, over two-and-a-half weeks to earn what Mr Rothwell earns in an hour. He also has a company pension fund valued at ?970,000.
Mr Rothwell warned staff he "is not posturing" and that the offer of redundancy to 'sell' their jobs is "not open for negotiation or reference to any third party" such as the Labour Relations Commission.
Following intervention yesterday by the Irish Congress of Trades Unions, the National Implementation Body will meet tomorrow afternoon to consider the situation. Last year the Irish Continental Group, which includes Irish Ferries, reported operating profits of ?14.6m, a drop of ?10m, mainly due to ?12m restructuring costs on its MV Normandy operation, where Irish staff 'sold' their jobs in an ?8m deal.
Siptu, mainly representing ships' officers, responded on Monday evening by issuing strike notice to take effect early next month. It will be up to management to carry through their threat to abandon Irish Sea services before then to prove it is not "posturing".
I think you may well find that issues of sea travel to and from the Republic of Ireland have changed since 2016.
I'm simply pointing out to those that suggest this would't have happened if we were still in the EU are wrong.
It has already happened in the EU.
2 -
Christ, you really scoured the archives there to find an example of someone warning that people will be sacked if they oppose a planned redundancy scheme.SporadicAddick said:It absolutely isn't something that could happen in the EU. Doh!September 21 2005 12:11 AM
THE boss of Irish Ferries has warned ship crews they will be sacked and the company will abandon its Irish Sea ferry services if they oppose plans to make 543 of them redundant within the next two weeks.
Chief executive Eamonn Rothwell said he intends to boost profits by up to ?20m, mainly by replacing Irish staff with cheaper Eastern European contract staff. The firm is facing tough competition from other ferry services and low-fare airlines.
He said if unions threaten industrial action, the firm "will have no option but to completely exit the operation of ships on the Irish Sea", and will issue compulsory redundancy notices. Those resisting have been told they will only get the basic two-week statutory redundancy.
The firm wants to get rid of Irish crew members, paid about ?430 a week, and engage others from the Baltic for ?140. This would give annual pay savings of over ?15,000 per crew member.
The rates compare with Mr Rothwell's remuneration last year of ?687,000 - ?14,617 a week, or ?375 an hour. It would take a Latvian or Polish crew member, on ?3.60 an hour, over two-and-a-half weeks to earn what Mr Rothwell earns in an hour. He also has a company pension fund valued at ?970,000.
Mr Rothwell warned staff he "is not posturing" and that the offer of redundancy to 'sell' their jobs is "not open for negotiation or reference to any third party" such as the Labour Relations Commission.
Following intervention yesterday by the Irish Congress of Trades Unions, the National Implementation Body will meet tomorrow afternoon to consider the situation. Last year the Irish Continental Group, which includes Irish Ferries, reported operating profits of ?14.6m, a drop of ?10m, mainly due to ?12m restructuring costs on its MV Normandy operation, where Irish staff 'sold' their jobs in an ?8m deal.
Siptu, mainly representing ships' officers, responded on Monday evening by issuing strike notice to take effect early next month. It will be up to management to carry through their threat to abandon Irish Sea services before then to prove it is not "posturing".
Isn’t a major difference here that there was no warning and the staff were not aware of the plans (which appears to breach their employment right)? Seems like a fairly major differentiator in the two cases.Brexit is a disaster for the vast majority of the people of this country.7 -
That "warning" actually turned into the sack for 140 seafarers. In Ireland. Part of the EU.se9addick said:
Christ, you really scoured the archives there to find an example of someone warning that people will be sacked if they oppose a planned redundancy scheme.SporadicAddick said:It absolutely isn't something that could happen in the EU. Doh!September 21 2005 12:11 AM
THE boss of Irish Ferries has warned ship crews they will be sacked and the company will abandon its Irish Sea ferry services if they oppose plans to make 543 of them redundant within the next two weeks.
Chief executive Eamonn Rothwell said he intends to boost profits by up to ?20m, mainly by replacing Irish staff with cheaper Eastern European contract staff. The firm is facing tough competition from other ferry services and low-fare airlines.
He said if unions threaten industrial action, the firm "will have no option but to completely exit the operation of ships on the Irish Sea", and will issue compulsory redundancy notices. Those resisting have been told they will only get the basic two-week statutory redundancy.
The firm wants to get rid of Irish crew members, paid about ?430 a week, and engage others from the Baltic for ?140. This would give annual pay savings of over ?15,000 per crew member.
The rates compare with Mr Rothwell's remuneration last year of ?687,000 - ?14,617 a week, or ?375 an hour. It would take a Latvian or Polish crew member, on ?3.60 an hour, over two-and-a-half weeks to earn what Mr Rothwell earns in an hour. He also has a company pension fund valued at ?970,000.
Mr Rothwell warned staff he "is not posturing" and that the offer of redundancy to 'sell' their jobs is "not open for negotiation or reference to any third party" such as the Labour Relations Commission.
Following intervention yesterday by the Irish Congress of Trades Unions, the National Implementation Body will meet tomorrow afternoon to consider the situation. Last year the Irish Continental Group, which includes Irish Ferries, reported operating profits of ?14.6m, a drop of ?10m, mainly due to ?12m restructuring costs on its MV Normandy operation, where Irish staff 'sold' their jobs in an ?8m deal.
Siptu, mainly representing ships' officers, responded on Monday evening by issuing strike notice to take effect early next month. It will be up to management to carry through their threat to abandon Irish Sea services before then to prove it is not "posturing".
Isn’t a major difference here that there was no warning and the staff were not aware of the plans (which appears to breach their employment right)? Seems like a fairly major differentiator in the two cases.Brexit is a disaster for the vast majority of the people of this country.
The timing may be different, but the principle is identical.
In fact, in the EU its much easier to replace high paid domestic employees with cheaper labour, generally from Eastern Europe, given freedom of movement.
By the way, "disaster" is when people get wiped out by a Tsunami, or a deranged demagogue bombs cities in another country. How has the "disaster for the vast majority of the people of this country" manifested itself?2 -
People on this thread have not said it wouldn’t happen in the EU, indeed as I mentioned the RMT suggested to it’s members that the EU is a threat to workers rights.SporadicAddick said:
Well yes, it did develop - they sacked 140 seafarers and replaced them with cheaper labour.seth plum said:
Has this issue developed any further in the seventeen years since these events happened, seventeen years in which the UK voted to leave?SporadicAddick said:It absolutely isn't something that could happen in the EU. Doh!September 21 2005 12:11 AM
THE boss of Irish Ferries has warned ship crews they will be sacked and the company will abandon its Irish Sea ferry services if they oppose plans to make 543 of them redundant within the next two weeks.
Chief executive Eamonn Rothwell said he intends to boost profits by up to ?20m, mainly by replacing Irish staff with cheaper Eastern European contract staff. The firm is facing tough competition from other ferry services and low-fare airlines.
He said if unions threaten industrial action, the firm "will have no option but to completely exit the operation of ships on the Irish Sea", and will issue compulsory redundancy notices. Those resisting have been told they will only get the basic two-week statutory redundancy.
The firm wants to get rid of Irish crew members, paid about ?430 a week, and engage others from the Baltic for ?140. This would give annual pay savings of over ?15,000 per crew member.
The rates compare with Mr Rothwell's remuneration last year of ?687,000 - ?14,617 a week, or ?375 an hour. It would take a Latvian or Polish crew member, on ?3.60 an hour, over two-and-a-half weeks to earn what Mr Rothwell earns in an hour. He also has a company pension fund valued at ?970,000.
Mr Rothwell warned staff he "is not posturing" and that the offer of redundancy to 'sell' their jobs is "not open for negotiation or reference to any third party" such as the Labour Relations Commission.
Following intervention yesterday by the Irish Congress of Trades Unions, the National Implementation Body will meet tomorrow afternoon to consider the situation. Last year the Irish Continental Group, which includes Irish Ferries, reported operating profits of ?14.6m, a drop of ?10m, mainly due to ?12m restructuring costs on its MV Normandy operation, where Irish staff 'sold' their jobs in an ?8m deal.
Siptu, mainly representing ships' officers, responded on Monday evening by issuing strike notice to take effect early next month. It will be up to management to carry through their threat to abandon Irish Sea services before then to prove it is not "posturing".
I think you may well find that issues of sea travel to and from the Republic of Ireland have changed since 2016.
I'm simply pointing out to those that suggest this would't have happened if we were still in the EU are wrong.
It has already happened in the EU.
Under capitalist free market thinking it happens all over, including the EU, the UK and elsewhere.
It has a special relevance with regard to the UK/EU situation because P&O are a ferry company.0 -
Let DP ports pay the redundancy packages. Then immediately nationalise P&O on grounds of national economic importance without paying DP any compensation - it's a loss making business after all, so worth sod all. Best not give them any warning either, just to see how they like it5
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News from my Brother who works as a customs office in Dover: some P+O staff now sacked have stated they were measured up for new uniforms last week !0
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Apart from the 5 people in this thread (not you) that have so far implicitly or explicitly linked this to Brexit...seth plum said:
People on this thread have not said it wouldn’t happen in the EU, indeed as I mentioned the RMT suggested to it’s members that the EU is a threat to workers rights.SporadicAddick said:
Well yes, it did develop - they sacked 140 seafarers and replaced them with cheaper labour.seth plum said:
Has this issue developed any further in the seventeen years since these events happened, seventeen years in which the UK voted to leave?SporadicAddick said:It absolutely isn't something that could happen in the EU. Doh!September 21 2005 12:11 AM
THE boss of Irish Ferries has warned ship crews they will be sacked and the company will abandon its Irish Sea ferry services if they oppose plans to make 543 of them redundant within the next two weeks.
Chief executive Eamonn Rothwell said he intends to boost profits by up to ?20m, mainly by replacing Irish staff with cheaper Eastern European contract staff. The firm is facing tough competition from other ferry services and low-fare airlines.
He said if unions threaten industrial action, the firm "will have no option but to completely exit the operation of ships on the Irish Sea", and will issue compulsory redundancy notices. Those resisting have been told they will only get the basic two-week statutory redundancy.
The firm wants to get rid of Irish crew members, paid about ?430 a week, and engage others from the Baltic for ?140. This would give annual pay savings of over ?15,000 per crew member.
The rates compare with Mr Rothwell's remuneration last year of ?687,000 - ?14,617 a week, or ?375 an hour. It would take a Latvian or Polish crew member, on ?3.60 an hour, over two-and-a-half weeks to earn what Mr Rothwell earns in an hour. He also has a company pension fund valued at ?970,000.
Mr Rothwell warned staff he "is not posturing" and that the offer of redundancy to 'sell' their jobs is "not open for negotiation or reference to any third party" such as the Labour Relations Commission.
Following intervention yesterday by the Irish Congress of Trades Unions, the National Implementation Body will meet tomorrow afternoon to consider the situation. Last year the Irish Continental Group, which includes Irish Ferries, reported operating profits of ?14.6m, a drop of ?10m, mainly due to ?12m restructuring costs on its MV Normandy operation, where Irish staff 'sold' their jobs in an ?8m deal.
Siptu, mainly representing ships' officers, responded on Monday evening by issuing strike notice to take effect early next month. It will be up to management to carry through their threat to abandon Irish Sea services before then to prove it is not "posturing".
I think you may well find that issues of sea travel to and from the Republic of Ireland have changed since 2016.
I'm simply pointing out to those that suggest this would't have happened if we were still in the EU are wrong.
It has already happened in the EU.
Under capitalist free market thinking it happens all over, including the EU, the UK and elsewhere.
It has a special relevance with regard to the UK/EU situation because P&O are a ferry company.0 -
With a Virus where millions died worldwide and which totally changed most of our lives, with giant containers all out of place and lock downs with no tourists and the hospitality industry slaughtered. My son lost his career for 14 months( Manager in hospitality) and my daughter for 9 months in "show business" because of COVID-19. We would've had a difficult time whether in or out of the EU.
I have always been pro European but struggled with the EU set up. I hated Thatcherism and the P+O situation reeks of that Philosophy.1 -
Assuming you're not including me in that? I never said it wouldn't have happened if we were still in the EU. You've dug up an example of it happening in the past, which might even be why other countries have legislated against it happening again. Denying the dip in cross Channel trade, for a number of reasons but yes, Brexit has to be included, is a bit daft.SporadicAddick said:
Apart from the 5 people in this thread (not you) that have so far implicitly or explicitly linked this to Brexit...seth plum said:
People on this thread have not said it wouldn’t happen in the EU, indeed as I mentioned the RMT suggested to it’s members that the EU is a threat to workers rights.SporadicAddick said:
Well yes, it did develop - they sacked 140 seafarers and replaced them with cheaper labour.seth plum said:
Has this issue developed any further in the seventeen years since these events happened, seventeen years in which the UK voted to leave?SporadicAddick said:It absolutely isn't something that could happen in the EU. Doh!September 21 2005 12:11 AM
THE boss of Irish Ferries has warned ship crews they will be sacked and the company will abandon its Irish Sea ferry services if they oppose plans to make 543 of them redundant within the next two weeks.
Chief executive Eamonn Rothwell said he intends to boost profits by up to ?20m, mainly by replacing Irish staff with cheaper Eastern European contract staff. The firm is facing tough competition from other ferry services and low-fare airlines.
He said if unions threaten industrial action, the firm "will have no option but to completely exit the operation of ships on the Irish Sea", and will issue compulsory redundancy notices. Those resisting have been told they will only get the basic two-week statutory redundancy.
The firm wants to get rid of Irish crew members, paid about ?430 a week, and engage others from the Baltic for ?140. This would give annual pay savings of over ?15,000 per crew member.
The rates compare with Mr Rothwell's remuneration last year of ?687,000 - ?14,617 a week, or ?375 an hour. It would take a Latvian or Polish crew member, on ?3.60 an hour, over two-and-a-half weeks to earn what Mr Rothwell earns in an hour. He also has a company pension fund valued at ?970,000.
Mr Rothwell warned staff he "is not posturing" and that the offer of redundancy to 'sell' their jobs is "not open for negotiation or reference to any third party" such as the Labour Relations Commission.
Following intervention yesterday by the Irish Congress of Trades Unions, the National Implementation Body will meet tomorrow afternoon to consider the situation. Last year the Irish Continental Group, which includes Irish Ferries, reported operating profits of ?14.6m, a drop of ?10m, mainly due to ?12m restructuring costs on its MV Normandy operation, where Irish staff 'sold' their jobs in an ?8m deal.
Siptu, mainly representing ships' officers, responded on Monday evening by issuing strike notice to take effect early next month. It will be up to management to carry through their threat to abandon Irish Sea services before then to prove it is not "posturing".
I think you may well find that issues of sea travel to and from the Republic of Ireland have changed since 2016.
I'm simply pointing out to those that suggest this would't have happened if we were still in the EU are wrong.
It has already happened in the EU.
Under capitalist free market thinking it happens all over, including the EU, the UK and elsewhere.
It has a special relevance with regard to the UK/EU situation because P&O are a ferry company.
The facts suggest it clearly has. Exports are down & Irish businesses are using other (new) routes to avoid the extra red tape and cost involved of using those offered by P&O.
France, Holland and others have legislated domestically to prevent "fire & rehire". We could have but didn't/won't and IMO I expect to see more watering down of employees rights over the next few years.3 -
No I hadn't. What I would point out is that ferry operations, like aircraft operations, are notoriously susceptible to any variation in demand, for whatever cause, as the fixed operating costs and associated asset leases don't go away when people stop travelling.Bournemouth Addick said:
Assuming you're not including me in that? I never said it wouldn't have happened if we were still in the EU. You've dug up an example of it happening in the past, which might even be why other countries have legislated against it happening again. Denying the dip in cross Channel trade, for a number of reasons but yes, Brexit has to be included, is a bit daft.SporadicAddick said:
Apart from the 5 people in this thread (not you) that have so far implicitly or explicitly linked this to Brexit...seth plum said:
People on this thread have not said it wouldn’t happen in the EU, indeed as I mentioned the RMT suggested to it’s members that the EU is a threat to workers rights.SporadicAddick said:
Well yes, it did develop - they sacked 140 seafarers and replaced them with cheaper labour.seth plum said:
Has this issue developed any further in the seventeen years since these events happened, seventeen years in which the UK voted to leave?SporadicAddick said:It absolutely isn't something that could happen in the EU. Doh!September 21 2005 12:11 AM
THE boss of Irish Ferries has warned ship crews they will be sacked and the company will abandon its Irish Sea ferry services if they oppose plans to make 543 of them redundant within the next two weeks.
Chief executive Eamonn Rothwell said he intends to boost profits by up to ?20m, mainly by replacing Irish staff with cheaper Eastern European contract staff. The firm is facing tough competition from other ferry services and low-fare airlines.
He said if unions threaten industrial action, the firm "will have no option but to completely exit the operation of ships on the Irish Sea", and will issue compulsory redundancy notices. Those resisting have been told they will only get the basic two-week statutory redundancy.
The firm wants to get rid of Irish crew members, paid about ?430 a week, and engage others from the Baltic for ?140. This would give annual pay savings of over ?15,000 per crew member.
The rates compare with Mr Rothwell's remuneration last year of ?687,000 - ?14,617 a week, or ?375 an hour. It would take a Latvian or Polish crew member, on ?3.60 an hour, over two-and-a-half weeks to earn what Mr Rothwell earns in an hour. He also has a company pension fund valued at ?970,000.
Mr Rothwell warned staff he "is not posturing" and that the offer of redundancy to 'sell' their jobs is "not open for negotiation or reference to any third party" such as the Labour Relations Commission.
Following intervention yesterday by the Irish Congress of Trades Unions, the National Implementation Body will meet tomorrow afternoon to consider the situation. Last year the Irish Continental Group, which includes Irish Ferries, reported operating profits of ?14.6m, a drop of ?10m, mainly due to ?12m restructuring costs on its MV Normandy operation, where Irish staff 'sold' their jobs in an ?8m deal.
Siptu, mainly representing ships' officers, responded on Monday evening by issuing strike notice to take effect early next month. It will be up to management to carry through their threat to abandon Irish Sea services before then to prove it is not "posturing".
I think you may well find that issues of sea travel to and from the Republic of Ireland have changed since 2016.
I'm simply pointing out to those that suggest this would't have happened if we were still in the EU are wrong.
It has already happened in the EU.
Under capitalist free market thinking it happens all over, including the EU, the UK and elsewhere.
It has a special relevance with regard to the UK/EU situation because P&O are a ferry company.
The facts suggest it clearly has. Exports are down & Irish businesses are using other (new) routes to avoid the extra red tape and cost involved of using those offered by P&O.
France, Holland and others have legislated domestically to prevent "fire & rehire". We could have but didn't/won't and IMO I expect to see more watering down of employees rights over the next few years.
P&O ferries load factors won't have been materially hit by Brexit. The core business (lorries and cars on ships) wont have changed much.
I'd imagine that two years of a global pandemic has been far more of a challenge.0 -
Yes road sweepers uniforms!soapboxsam said:News from my Brother who works as a customs office in Dover: some P+O staff now sacked have stated they were measured up for new uniforms last week !0 -
There's some information about that in the last Private Eye.cabbles said:
It’s highly impractical, but I wonder if we could ever get an audit into where all the furlough money went.blackpool72 said:Ten million claimed through furlough
We should definitely get that back.
Thieving cnuts.I know Sunak wrote off £4.3 bn, but I would imagine it’s a horror story of shell companies linked to organised crime, and nasty little men & women up and down Britain who lists themselves as company directors of consultancies that do absolutely nothing who pocketed at the taxpayer’s expense.I dread to think how much money some people made during the big give away
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Covid will have clearly impacted on them so it is logical they have made a loss in recent years. That applies to many business and is a poor excuse.
As for culpability of the Government - make your own minds up
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-58997916
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Well said mate....I stubbed my toe this morning. Never happened when we were in cult EU.SporadicAddick said:
Well yes, it did develop - they sacked 140 seafarers and replaced them with cheaper labour.seth plum said:
Has this issue developed any further in the seventeen years since these events happened, seventeen years in which the UK voted to leave?SporadicAddick said:It absolutely isn't something that could happen in the EU. Doh!September 21 2005 12:11 AM
THE boss of Irish Ferries has warned ship crews they will be sacked and the company will abandon its Irish Sea ferry services if they oppose plans to make 543 of them redundant within the next two weeks.
Chief executive Eamonn Rothwell said he intends to boost profits by up to ?20m, mainly by replacing Irish staff with cheaper Eastern European contract staff. The firm is facing tough competition from other ferry services and low-fare airlines.
He said if unions threaten industrial action, the firm "will have no option but to completely exit the operation of ships on the Irish Sea", and will issue compulsory redundancy notices. Those resisting have been told they will only get the basic two-week statutory redundancy.
The firm wants to get rid of Irish crew members, paid about ?430 a week, and engage others from the Baltic for ?140. This would give annual pay savings of over ?15,000 per crew member.
The rates compare with Mr Rothwell's remuneration last year of ?687,000 - ?14,617 a week, or ?375 an hour. It would take a Latvian or Polish crew member, on ?3.60 an hour, over two-and-a-half weeks to earn what Mr Rothwell earns in an hour. He also has a company pension fund valued at ?970,000.
Mr Rothwell warned staff he "is not posturing" and that the offer of redundancy to 'sell' their jobs is "not open for negotiation or reference to any third party" such as the Labour Relations Commission.
Following intervention yesterday by the Irish Congress of Trades Unions, the National Implementation Body will meet tomorrow afternoon to consider the situation. Last year the Irish Continental Group, which includes Irish Ferries, reported operating profits of ?14.6m, a drop of ?10m, mainly due to ?12m restructuring costs on its MV Normandy operation, where Irish staff 'sold' their jobs in an ?8m deal.
Siptu, mainly representing ships' officers, responded on Monday evening by issuing strike notice to take effect early next month. It will be up to management to carry through their threat to abandon Irish Sea services before then to prove it is not "posturing".
I think you may well find that issues of sea travel to and from the Republic of Ireland have changed since 2016.
I'm simply pointing out to those that suggest this would't have happened if we were still in the EU are wrong.
It has already happened in the EU.3 -
Crikey.0
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When the UK was in the EU it made the rules and was not dictated to by the rules.
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