Next manager - Ben Garner confirmed (p256)

Vfrf said:

Rothko said:

Vfrf said:

Rothko said:

Vfrf said:

Rothko said:

JamesSeed said:

The Red Robin said:

Rothko said:

Chelsea's women team manager is a bigger job then ours 

People can laugh all they want on here but it’s true. 

How do you define bigger then?

Higher profile, better paid, better infrastructure, she's still got ambitions around the Champions League and competing with Barcelona. 

With that logic, managing the Chelsea u16s is a better job than Charlton first-team manager then.

I don't know how you have that leap, a step up from the U16s in the men's games is a step up, but not between one of the best jobs in the Women's game to a lower league in the men's sport.

It also predisposes that the Women's game should know its place

You've phrased that in quite a misogynistic way, but yes, the women's game is even beyond boys football, let alone mens. 
In-case you didn't catch it but back in 2018 the last time an event like this was tried, the USA women's team (world champions) lost 5-2 to an U15's boys team, and let's face it, USA is hardly pre-eminent for mens football: Link. I agree with you in terms of satisfaction, European football etc - the Chelsea women's job is superior, but in terms of difficulty, experience and prestige required then I'm sorry but it's nowhere near the vacant Charlton job. 

I phrased it in a misogynist way? Ok, love to know how. 

'Should know its place' was your phrase of choice. Also telling that you ignored the rest of the post  

I was responding to your post, which as the full quote says 'It also predisposes that the Women's game should know its place'

So you should try some basic comprehension lessons 

Rothko said:

Vfrf said:

Rothko said:

Vfrf said:

Rothko said:

Vfrf said:

Rothko said:

JamesSeed said:

The Red Robin said:

Rothko said:

Chelsea's women team manager is a bigger job then ours 

People can laugh all they want on here but it’s true. 

How do you define bigger then?

Higher profile, better paid, better infrastructure, she's still got ambitions around the Champions League and competing with Barcelona. 

With that logic, managing the Chelsea u16s is a better job than Charlton first-team manager then.

I don't know how you have that leap, a step up from the U16s in the men's games is a step up, but not between one of the best jobs in the Women's game to a lower league in the men's sport.

It also predisposes that the Women's game should know its place

You've phrased that in quite a misogynistic way, but yes, the women's game is even beyond boys football, let alone mens. 
In-case you didn't catch it but back in 2018 the last time an event like this was tried, the USA women's team (world champions) lost 5-2 to an U15's boys team, and let's face it, USA is hardly pre-eminent for mens football: Link. I agree with you in terms of satisfaction, European football etc - the Chelsea women's job is superior, but in terms of difficulty, experience and prestige required then I'm sorry but it's nowhere near the vacant Charlton job. 

I phrased it in a misogynist way? Ok, love to know how. 

'Should know its place' was your phrase of choice. Also telling that you ignored the rest of the post  

I was responding to your post, which as the full quote says 'It also predisposes that the Women's game should know its place'

So you should try some basic comprehension lessons 

That was still your choice of words, not mine. It's quite funny to see the mask slip - when your argument folds on it's merits, you default to trying to insult me personally, but I'm fine for 'comprehension lessons', thank you.

and as Emma herself as said

"Women's football is something to celebrate, and the quality and the achievement of all the females I represent... it's an insult to them that we talk about women's football being a step down, with the dedication and the commitment and the quality they have," Hayes said.

Rothko said:

Vfrf said:

Rothko said:

Vfrf said:

Rothko said:

Vfrf said:

Rothko said:

Vfrf said:

Rothko said:

JamesSeed said:

The Red Robin said:

Rothko said:

Chelsea's women team manager is a bigger job then ours 

People can laugh all they want on here but it’s true. 

How do you define bigger then?

Higher profile, better paid, better infrastructure, she's still got ambitions around the Champions League and competing with Barcelona. 

With that logic, managing the Chelsea u16s is a better job than Charlton first-team manager then.

I don't know how you have that leap, a step up from the U16s in the men's games is a step up, but not between one of the best jobs in the Women's game to a lower league in the men's sport.

It also predisposes that the Women's game should know its place

You've phrased that in quite a misogynistic way, but yes, the women's game is even beyond boys football, let alone mens. 
In-case you didn't catch it but back in 2018 the last time an event like this was tried, the USA women's team (world champions) lost 5-2 to an U15's boys team, and let's face it, USA is hardly pre-eminent for mens football: Link. I agree with you in terms of satisfaction, European football etc - the Chelsea women's job is superior, but in terms of difficulty, experience and prestige required then I'm sorry but it's nowhere near the vacant Charlton job. 

I phrased it in a misogynist way? Ok, love to know how. 

'Should know its place' was your phrase of choice. Also telling that you ignored the rest of the post  

I was responding to your post, which as the full quote says 'It also predisposes that the Women's game should know its place'

So you should try some basic comprehension lessons 

That was still your choice of words, not mine. It's quite funny to see the mask slip - when your argument folds on it's merits, you default to trying to insult me personally, but I'm fine for 'comprehension lessons', thank you.

Nice try, my argument is fine, you misquoted to try and make a point, that's fine people do it all the time, just don't get on the defence when I post the full quote in response you

That's a pure lie and others will be able to read for themselves.
For the sake of the forum and thread I will not be responding to you anymore  

Back on topic, Taylor still leading the way at 2/1

Rothko said:

and as Emma herself as said

"Women's football is something to celebrate, and the quality and the achievement of all the females I represent... it's an insult to them that we talk about women's football being a step down, with the dedication and the commitment and the quality they have," Hayes said.

Just because she says it is an insult, doesn't mean that it's not true. It is a massive step down in quality, that isn't up for argument. 

When Tommy binned Jacko, I kind of hoped that we had informally sounded out one or more of our preferred (list of) successors such that all that remained was negotiation of Ts &Cs and a swift appointment would be announced.
Would it be safe to assume now that that was not the case?
Would it then also be safe, do you think, to assume that Tommy views the Charlton Manager/Coach job/project as sufficiently attractive that he will be deluged with "A" list applicants from which he can cherry-pick the best?
I don't think I subscribe to that view.
I think the project will take years; I doubt the pay is that great and I think the recruitment model is flawed unless the manager/coach has primary input.
Just my ill-informed opinion of course.
What price Jason Euell in the role of caretaker manager when the season begins?

Emma Hayes:

After the woman's cup final yesterday Emma held her son Harry and I thought where is his twin ?
What I didn't know until I checked after, was the twin Albie died at 28 weeks and Emma had to carry that dead baby until Harry could be born first and then the dead embryonic baby. This happened 4 years ago, Chelsea won the cup in 2018 and Hayes didn't tell her players until the following week so the players could remain focused and also celebrate the victory.

Emma Hayes is a very strong person and successful football coach. I always want Chelsea to lose whether Men's, Woman's or youth football But Hayes have been so successful as a coach and manager in woman's football that Wimbledon or Charlton or anyone in the 3rd tier would be a step down. 
I have watched her coaching and she is loud and commanding and her players, mainly Internationals will run through walls for her as was demonstrated in extra time against a very good City team yesterday.

.............
Personally the first woman manager coach in probably the National League will already be coaching in men's football. Chelsea have a female coach in their boys academy called Fiona Armfield. It won't be her because of her age. ( ageist Sam!)

Personally don't mind Hayes and think she speaks quite well whenever I've seen her on the TV, but if she ain't a serious contender, can't see the point in arguing about her, let alone whether Chelsea Woman's is a bigger Club than Charlton mens.

Move on ffs

Why would she want the job? Unless she has towering self confidence and a huge desire to prove a woman can make it in the men's game (I'm not saying she lacks either of those btw), then all I see is downsides for her.

Currently she challenges for league titles, domestic cups and European honours every season. No matter what we think, trying to get out of league one doesn't really compete.

Every time we fail to win a game she'll get endless sexist abuse, on social media both from a tiny minority of our own fans, and the weirdos how seem to live their sad lives on Twitter abusing women every day.

More than that, she'll probably get sexist abuse from within the game. Footballers, on average, are less well educated that then general population (something to do with not paying attention in school due to thinking they're going to make it as a footballer). Put below average education together with stress and testosterone, and the results may not be pleasant. We all know arguments happen in dressing rooms and on training pitches, it's almost guaranteed that will turn sexist at some stage.

And that's before you add in the potential of oppositions players and staff having little digs continually.

Best case scenario, she proves that a very successful women's manager can cut it in league one (part of me wants to say whoopti-do, but it would be an important first step), outside of the best case, she's just asking for endless online abuse, plus abuse from the stands, plus possible abuse from players, and more than likely a massive dose of condescension, if not derision, from the media.

Vfrf said:

Garrymanilow said:

Vfrf said:

Garrymanilow said:

I wonder how many of the people dismissing Hayes as an option have any idea who she is, what her management style is like, what her tactical preference is, how she handles man management etc. Or are some just saying no because they saw a women's game on TV 6 years ago and decided they didn't like it? I reckon I can guess.

Very narrow minded comment there. Do you assume that your opinions are clearly superior that you think anybody in disagreement must be a bigot or misinformed?
Speaking as someone against the idea of Hayes as an option, having managed various teams of men and women I know in order to be an effective leader you have to manage people differently and men/women especially often require very different approaches. Emma has clearly proven herself in the womens game and as a good leader amongst women, that has not yet been proven the mens. I’d personally rather us not be the test of that considering how dire our last few years have been.

Point out to me where I've included an opinion about how Hayes would be as manager in my post? What I found going through was that there was an immediate dismissal of her ability to do the job by someone who said they didn't give a toss about the women's game and was worried that it was inappropriate for a female manager to be in a job where there is a room where a man might take his shorts off. That made me wonder how many against it were in the camp of 'woman manager, women's football is bad, no thanks' and how many had followed the WSL this season and had an idea of her as a manager to base an opinion on. I'm still interested in that, I think it's interesting. You've then assumed my opinion on it and called me narrow minded based on that assumption, which isn't really my problem to be honest.  As it is, as much as I rate her as a manager I don't know how she would find this mess and I think she'd be a bigger risk than I'd want to take at this point after a pretty miserable season, though I'd trust her to tell a few of these players who they are fairly quickly!

I didn't claim to say you had an opinion on Hayes, but you did have an opinion on those who didn't want her.
I do agree with you on the 'taking shorts off' part, ridiculous and doesn't matter one bit, I'm sure two professions can control themselves around the opposite sex. Once again, I didn't assume your opinion on Hayes, I read your comment before where you made an assumption on those of us who don't want her.

That's even madder then. I asked how many have watched Hayes' work closely this season, which may well include you (I don't want to assume, I fear it might only make things more difficult). I then wondered if some are just against it based on not liking women's football. This was based on statements like 'Couldn't give a toss about woman's football tbh.' (7 Likes) and 'No , I do not want a woman managing the men's team' (7 Likes). Not really much needed in terms of assumption there, but even still I wondered if 'some' had opinions not based on any knowledge of her managerial profile, which judging by the interactions with those sad comment I don't think I'm out of my mind for thinking is the case. You've then jumped across quite the chasm to get offended and call me narrow minded when my comment wasn't even directed at you. It's powerful stuff.

I enjoy watching women's football. 

soapboxsam said:

Covered End said:

If women's football isn't a step down, why do we have women's football?
The teams should be mixed/joint. 

I can't believe you would come out with that rubbish. It's not funny so why would you say that. Horse racing or show jumping is about the only sport I can think of where men and woman can compete on equal terms. Darts and snooker also but it hasn't happen yet. 

There was three girls in the Tandridge League who played in boys teams until Nature and puberty decided it was time for them to play in girls teams. Two ended up playing in the Women's championship and one decided to become a county netball player as she grew and grew. ( Be a keeper and raise the standard )

Back to Cafc next manager and let's hope it happens soon.

It's not meant to be funny.
It's a discussion about an opinion that Chelsea's womens team is bigger than Charlton's men's team. 

Ok the deciding factor is what is the average away following for Chelsea’s womens team ….
that will decide which is the bigger job 

Covered End said:

If women's football isn't a step down, why do we have women's football?
The teams should be mixed/joint. 

I don't think that comparison quite works. There's no sense in comparing men's and women's football in terms of them competing against each other, because they don't. The women only play against the women, but the requirements of the manager are still pretty much the same, it doesn't necessarily mean that skillset is a step down because it's applied to a different group. Hayes has had to manage a large squad, keeping a team happy through regular rotation. She's had to leave some very good players on the bench and keep them sufficiently engaged that they can come on and change a game. She's successfully converted players like Reiten and Charles into new positions (more successful wing-back conversions than Jacko managed!) She's kept the players level and calm through a very tight title race and she's handled the media very well in keeping expectations down with the public but standards high in the team. There's no doubt this season has been a man management masterclass from her, and tactically she's made changes that have made Chelsea very difficult to beat. She's also done all that with the ability to sign just about any player she wants, and being able to sign one of the all-time best strikers and a two time UEFA player of the year as well as leading players in all positions certainly makes her life a lot easier. She won't find that level of signing resource if she does move to a club in the men's game unless City decide to replace Pep with her, and that could be a big adaptation. I don't think the question is whether her skills are applicable to men instead of women, I think the question is always just is she any good and would she work for the team that wants to hire her, and that's always up in the air to be honest. Adkins got Southampton to the Premier League and took us to the foot of League One. Bowyer went from a capable League One promotion manager to a frothing League One psychopath swinging at anyone who moved within a 3 year period. Moyes had Everton in the Champions League, down to a laughing stock with Sunderland. He even managed to be an unwanted stopgap and a total Messiah in two spells at the same club with a 6 month gap. Garry Monk started off his career as a successful Premier League manager and was last seen being sacked from a Championship club in the relegation zone after failing all the way down. Managers will step up and step down from various levels over and over and to a certain extent you just have to cross your fingers and hope they work with your setup for as long as possible before they inevitably do fail.

Gribbo said:

soapboxsam said:

Covered End said:

If women's football isn't a step down, why do we have women's football?
The teams should be mixed/joint. 

I can't believe you would come out with that rubbish. It's not funny so why would you say that. Horse racing or show jumping is about the only sport I can think of where men and woman can compete on equal terms. Darts and snooker also but it hasn't happen yet. 

There was three girls in the Tandridge League who played in boys teams until Nature and puberty decided it was time for them to play in girls teams. Two ended up playing in the Women's championship and one decided to become a county netball player as she grew and grew. ( Be a keeper and raise the standard )

Back to Cafc next manager and let's hope it happens soon.

Could be wrong, but thought snooker tournaments were open to both genders 

And women play in the joint darts.