Next manager - Ben Garner confirmed (p256)

bolloxbolder said:

A very good article on Garner put up by @Scoham a couple of pages back. Recommended reading.

My take on it is that Garner is the man with all the tools to build a clubs infrastructure in the right way to ensure long term success and stability. I doubt though that Sandgaard will give him the necessary time should we fail to make the play offs next year.

Would have preferred Beale, Warburton or Taylor in that order but beggars can't be choosers. Welcome Ben.

Agree with this and as much as I hate to admit it, Palace have been a well run club for about a decade now. Garner progressed quickly there and has seen and experienced what a good infrastructure looks and feels like. 

Rob7Lee said:

Todds_right_hook said:

Rob7Lee said:

So was he 8th, 9th or 10th choice..........

What a joke....... sacked Jackson for this........ I really give up. All will have been done on a spreadsheet, just like RD he'll never learn, too pig/big headed.

Is this a question or a statement? Was he 8th choice or numbe 1 target?

Question, he certainly wasn't number one choice as he wasn't the first manager to be spoken to. But whether TS spoke to 3/5/10 or 100 I don't know.

But the same mistakes are being made time and time again, players bought on stats, now managers.

But despite Swindon being number 1 in almost every stat last season, they weren't top in the one that matters - promotion.......So a manager fail to get one off the best squads in league two out of the division, so we'll give him a go at getting us out of league one with in a relative terms arguably a worse squad...... Swindon only just made the playoffs by a point.

They may have only made the playoffs by a point, but they were only 3 points off automatic promotion too. League 2 was ridiculously tight at the top of the table this year. Tranmere who finished 9th were only 9 points off top spot.

DubaiCAFC said:

This isn’t a done deal, news leaked from Swindon as a hurry up. Compo deal agreed in principal.. but final decision hasn’t been made yet, as I understand 

makes sense now if Swindon have leaked the story, they will want it sorted one way of the other asap to then begin their own process (if needed)

DubaiCAFC said:

This isn’t a done deal, news leaked from Swindon as a hurry up. Compo deal agreed in principal.. but final decision hasn’t been made yet, as I understand 

Why not just say that a Sandgaard told you that?

Nothing wrong with that and thanks for sharing but it was either MS or TS who told you that.

It's funny because if you look at Garner's journey, his work ethic, what he achieved as a coach, and as an assistant head coach - and how he likes to think outside the box, continue to educate himself, as well as how he talks about player development and coaching techniques he is very similar to Beale (who was the candidate I wanted based on basically the fact that Gerrard waxed lyrical about him).

The major difference between those two is Garner has actually been the head coach at a couple of clubs, one which didn't go well (they didn't even have training pitches etc), and one where he took a basket case of a club with only 7 players and turned them into the best attacking team in the league almost seeing them promoted. 

Again, it is fine that you think he might be underwhelming compared to some other names thrown out there, but it is not by any stretch of the imagination a nobody who has come completely out of left field. He is an ambitious, young, progressive manager who has a large body of successful work behind him.

I think the story about Garner being close to the job could be Sandgaard trying to push Beale or others to make a decision on the role. 

supaclive said:

Covered End said:

supaclive said:

If he thinks Davison is good enough for League One, we are fucked.

He also hasn't said he isn't!

But he's also not said we're not signing Mbappe so, y'know, checkmate.

Bolderhumphreyreid said:

Just to clear up the rubbish that's being written about Garner's love in with Davison.

This was a coach of a League 2 team who needed a bit of help to get promoted. He turned to Davison who, at the time, was having a decent time with us (although his form had dipped by the time he went) and was affordable for a League 2 team.

That doesn't mean that he believes Davison is the man to take us into the Championship. That also isn't the reason we kept Davison and got rid of Washington.

I don't think Jackson will be signing Juan Castillo for Wimbledon just because he signed him for us. It doesn't work like that.

Agree about Davison. Good example with
Juan Castillo as he was a bad time keeper and his basic fitness was poor. ( That info did come from the dressing room) 

Young players do lose their way especially when they have been at clubs like Chelsea who have so many players on their books that they lose motivation as they are paid too much money too young and just keep going out on loan. 

Good mate of mine is a lifelong Swindon fan and mates with their current owner, highly rates him + his support team and a couple of players coming over as well, his words not mine,  as always until it happens it ain’t happened, but I’d be delighted with his appointment, don’t want some big time Charlie journeyman manager. 

Rob7Lee said:

Covered End said:

Todds_right_hook said:

Rob7Lee said:

So was he 8th, 9th or 10th choice..........

What a joke....... sacked Jackson for this........ I really give up. All will have been done on a spreadsheet, just like RD he'll never learn, too pig/big headed.

Is this a question or a statement? Was he 8th choice or numbe 1 target?

Rob7Lee is a very knowledgeable man, so I'm surprised at the extreme negativity. Has TS upset you Rob? 

He's not upset me no, but people far more knowledgeable in the inner workings of this industry will tell you he's setting himself up to fail.

Like many successful business men/women he knows best, even in a field he had little knowledge of, much like RD he believes he (and his son) knows more than seasoned pro's who've been in and around the game for decades.

He might strike it lucky, much like RD did with Bowyer/Gallen etc - but ultimately luck has a finite lifespan and runs out very quickly!

Most seasons I like a little flutter on promotion, TBH the way things are going I'll probably hedge my bets and put some on relegation instead.

Theres a lot of stuff out there, you don't have to have inner knowledge in the club to work things out.

Ok, so you don't have access to the recruitment long-list, and your last sentence suggests a personal interpretation of what's going on.

And heaven help us, you may turn out to be right.

However...football management doesn't fit the patterns of successful business management. That is why, e.g Sunderland have burnt through a number of "seasoned pros" on their long downward descent. Is Alex Neil fundamentally a better manager than all of them? Or is there also something else at work? Personal chemistry between the manager and owner? Or even more than that, some alchemy at work because football is almost entirely a business running on people's physical and mental effort? Isn't it this that explains why Chris Powell was so successful for us, but as @The Red Robin points out, was far less successful as a No.1 elsewhere, e.g Huddersfield? Isn't it this that explains Bow's extraordinary success when he took over? Who saw that coming? Not me and not you, as I recall, because of course we feared what we thought would happen when based on (our perception of) the personalities of both Bow and RD. And yet, there we are...and Bow continued to perform miracles as RD handed over to ESI1 and then ESI2. But Bow at Birmingham? I dunno...

The trouble with a lot of 'seasoned pros" in football is that they can, like seasoned pros in any field, be a bit stuck in the time when they were at their own peak. Take Curbs and Brownie on Charlton TV. I love them both, even more now I get to see Curbs the person, as opposed to the manager on the post-match Sky interviews, and both have made many pertinent individual points there. But does that add up to superior overview of how Charlton should be managed right now? Curbs clearly would have re-signed Washington in a heartbeat. The principle of re-signing the players you want to keep, asap, is clearly right. But look at the debate here on whether CW should have been one of those. Or, speaking about Curbs, us older fans could try to go back to how we reacted when Curbs and Gritty were suddenly appointed as Joint managers (unprecedented) and then how we reacted when the much-loved Gritty was booted out leaving the Hammer Curbs in sole charge... 

It seems that in football, you find hidden playing gems (or in biz terms "Value") in lower divisions. That clearly applies on the management side too. But very very few progress solidly upwards. The vast majority of managers have spells where they are really successful, go on to bigger thngs, then fail - and then sometimes bounce back (e.g Eddie Howe, allegedly Jiminez first choice ahead of SCP). How do you explain that? Personal chemistry between manager and owner is surely a big factor. And a lot of owners seem like quite challenging people to have as a boss. Maybe, just maybe, TS and Garner have "clicked". It does happen, and not just in football. 

At least, that is what I'm telling myself...

RodneyCharltonTrotta said:

soapboxsam said:

 Luke Rooney, Ricky Lambert and Steve Parish have all praised Ben Garner either tonight or in the past as an excellent coach who can get his point across to players.
A licence coach.

Ben Garner is another coach who started young after an injury put paid to a football playing career. He was born in Pembury, Kent. Not sure if it was personal issues but he had a break after a month in the job and Bristol Rovers didn't quite work out and it was Lambert who recommended Garner for that job.

The Swindon job he did very well as he had to bring so many players in as he only had a 7 a side team when he took over.

Good record with young players, and Zaha, Johnnie Williams, Nat Clyne are just a few of the young player he helped in their development at Palace.

Thomas Sandgaard may look on Twitter and change his mind; I wonder if that's why he told JR that interviewing is still going on ?  

I believe he can do a good job but not if he is slagged off as soon as he loses his first game.

Pembury is my local hospital and I have been there a number of times over recent years and the place has been impeccable on each occasion if that helps to reassure anyone about Garner's appointment.

I'm so pleased you're not 'angry from Tunbridge Wells" Rodders.

Rob7Lee said:

PragueAddick said:

Rob7Lee said:

ValleyGary said:

Rob7Lee said:

FishCostaFortune said:

Rob7Lee said:

Todds_right_hook said:

Rob7Lee said:

So was he 8th, 9th or 10th choice..........

What a joke....... sacked Jackson for this........ I really give up. All will have been done on a spreadsheet, just like RD he'll never learn, too pig/big headed.

Is this a question or a statement? Was he 8th choice or numbe 1 target?

Question, he certainly wasn't number one choice as he wasn't the first manager to be spoken to. But whether TS spoke to 3/5/10 or 100 I don't know.

But the same mistakes are being made time and time again, players bought on stats, now managers.

But despite Swindon being number 1 in almost every stat last season, they weren't top in the one that matters - promotion.......So a manager fail to get one off the best squads in league two out of the division, so we'll give him a go at getting us out of league one with in a relative terms arguably a worse squad...... Swindon only just made the playoffs by a point.

Why would the first manager TS interviewed be his first choice, and how do we know he even had a ‘first choice’? Sounds to me like they interviewed, and if the rumours are true, are still interviewing lots of candidates.

Maybe they went into it with a complete open mind and wanted to hear from as many managers as possible which is why the process is taking as long as it is.

Secondly, and this is complete ignorance on my part due to my lack of knowledge, but what do you know about the Swindon team and it’s players to say they had one of the best squads in the league? From what I read they had 7 players at the beginning of the season, and had been in somewhat of a downward spiral. 

If you believe that then IMHO you are deluded. TS much like RD has a very small pool of managers who will work under his 'set up', especially in League one, which he is now finding. Garner wasn't first choice or even 5th, but he may well be one of the few prepared to work under the set up provided by TS and MS.

I love how you state this like it’s undeniable fact. You know as much as anyone else.

Maybe, maybe not.

I’m very surprised at the line you are taking here. I presume you have good reasons for it, as it’s quite unsettling. On the face of it, I’m not sure how you could have access to the full recruitment long-list, which is what you imply. 

I certainly do not have access to any form of head coach recruitment list, but I am aware of a number of potentials who have been spoken to/sounded out, and I also know why some of them are not interested.

You have an owner and son wishing to dictate to seasoned professionals the style of play, a much lesser than normally expected input into player recruitment, this really is no different to the infamous email from RD and the diamond formation to Powell and how players were brought in. TS is a just a bit more friendly/cuddly and here (more!)

As I mentioned above, some seem to think Jackson was appointed due to his record as Caretaker, that's simply not the case, TS was unable to persuade anyone to come (that he wanted). Just remember he was appointed as Caretaker on 21st October and it wasn't until almost two months later he was given the permanent gig ............ on a very restrictive contract that TS knew was highly likely to mean he could remove Jackson at the end of the season easily and for minimum cost.  

I thought similar at the time of JJ's appointment (re' JJ not being appointed because TS's number 1 choice). Though I was thinking it was more to do with it being a convenient thing to do, financially and with regards to timing / effort needed, and the fans facilitated it. Imo

Will give him a chance, but it's incredibly underwhelming. Failed at Bristol Rovers, did ok at Swindon. It won't have the other League 1 promotion teams panicking. 

I hadn't read or heard much about Garner before i have read this thread today, watched a few clips recommended on his philosophy and he talks well at least.  I like the fact Swindon played a possession game and created alot of chances, you would hope with a supposed better team/player base the scoring will be higher and they scored 80ish goals (forget the exact amount.

I find it hard to judge whoever. until we see the performances on the pitch. I am hopeful that its been done early enough to get us firing and not playing catch up. 

We've had former players and former good managers (Nigel Adkins) which some just work and some don't, i am optimistic if he gets in early so fingers crossed. 

supaclive said:

Garrymanilow said:

supaclive said:

Covered End said:

supaclive said:

If he thinks Davison is good enough for League One, we are fucked.

He also hasn't said he isn't!

But he's also not said we're not signing Mbappe so, y'know, checkmate.

Devil's Advocate is all.

Personally he seems to have what our owner is looking for.  However the comments from "insiders", whether direct or indirectly about TS, plus the situations with Roddy, Skiverton, Bowyer, Adkins, JJ et al over the last year and a half don't fill me full of confidence.

Yep, always worrying to hear that stuff. I wonder how much other clubs' fans have had to adapt to the modern way of thinking with ownerships dictating playing styles and player signings. Southampton have been doing it for years with varying levels of success, it took Swansea to the Premier League and at Everton there's finally acceptance this year that swapping one manager for another with a totally different style has added masively to a lot of their problems. It's really not that unusual to have ownerships that dictate style and identify players to fit that style for sucession purposes in both cases, but I think the bombastic way Sandgaard communicates a lot of this stuff really doesn't help the transition. he's also got a tendency to get things wrong first time around, but the flipside of the Roddy, Adkins etc stuff is that in all of these cases he's recognised the problem and attempted to fix it. Could be he's got this one wrong too, and a lot will depend on the quality of player recruitment as it always does, but I'm hopeful that the structure is falling into place. It's definitely not as mad as a lot make it out to be, but I also think that's some mad aspects that could do with being ironed out. Time will tell