Next manager - Ben Garner confirmed (p256)

oohaahmortimer said:

investors lol
no one is ever getting a return on us, they're burning dough 

Warburton the man?

ElliotCAFC said:

ElliotCAFC said:

Trust in the sausage.

I was going to joke about him getting the name of Swindon’s captain wrong, but at this point he’s the only reliable ITK left in a sea full of wannabe Sausagedog’s

Of all the sausagedogs he is in the top 110.

MuttleyCAFC said:

FishCostaFortune said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

From my perspective, Garner could be better, the same or worse than JJ. As JJ wasn't given a chance to fail I don't know. I hope he is better of course, but I don't think anybody can know that yet which makes sacking JJ a bit silly IMO. Having said that, it will cost Sandgaard more if he does get it wrong and its his money. I will get behind Garner and hope he is the man for the job.

You could say that any manager that we were linked with could have been better, the same or worse than JJ. 

However at the end of the day if there was an vacant position for a club, and both Garner and JJ were going for it I would expect 99% of the time Garner would get it. 

Garner has way, way, way more successful coaching experience across the board then JJ. If you listen to that podcast or read about him, he is from the Beale mould, a real student of the coaching game, who has worked tirelessly to get himself into this position, by going through the age groups and by completing committing himself to everything about coaching.

To add to this he also has a successful body or work behind him especially on coaching sides to perform well above expectations.

So I really can’t see how it’s a silly decision.

Garner has a failure at Bristol Rovers and a partial success at Swindon on his record. That isn't to say he won't be a success but I would say there is as much chance JJ would have been. He didn't take long to find a League 2 job which is where Garner has come from. JJ had the advantage of being in post and having a better kowledge of the players. We can argue one way or the other but this was not appointing a Warburton or Wilder which you could then make a stronger case for a better chance of success. 

If we didn't appoint Charlton managers from within we wouldn't have had Curbs or Bowyer and Powell was a Charlton man given a chance. Where are the examples of researched recruitments working out? Dowie, Peeters, Luzon, Slade? I'll take just one success if you can find one.

Seed

Nelson 

Riga?

MuttleyCAFC said:

FishCostaFortune said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

From my perspective, Garner could be better, the same or worse than JJ. As JJ wasn't given a chance to fail I don't know. I hope he is better of course, but I don't think anybody can know that yet which makes sacking JJ a bit silly IMO. Having said that, it will cost Sandgaard more if he does get it wrong and its his money. I will get behind Garner and hope he is the man for the job.

You could say that any manager that we were linked with could have been better, the same or worse than JJ. 

However at the end of the day if there was an vacant position for a club, and both Garner and JJ were going for it I would expect 99% of the time Garner would get it. 

Garner has way, way, way more successful coaching experience across the board then JJ. If you listen to that podcast or read about him, he is from the Beale mould, a real student of the coaching game, who has worked tirelessly to get himself into this position, by going through the age groups and by completing committing himself to everything about coaching.

To add to this he also has a successful body or work behind him especially on coaching sides to perform well above expectations.

So I really can’t see how it’s a silly decision.

Garner has a failure at Bristol Rovers and a partial success at Swindon on his record. That isn't to say he won't be a success but I would say there is as much chance JJ would have been. He didn't take long to find a League 2 job which is where Garner has come from. JJ had the advantage of being in post and having a better kowledge of the players. We can argue one way or the other but this was not appointing a Warburton or Wilder which you could then make a stronger case for a better chance of success. 

If we didn't appoint Charlton managers from within we wouldn't have had Curbs or Bowyer and Powell was a Charlton man given a chance. Where are the examples of researched recruitments working out? Dowie, Peeters, Luzon, Slade? I'll take just one success if you can find one.

Or, have some managers with previous connections to their clubs done well and some have not. And some managers who have not had connections with their clubs done well, and some haven’t?

When deciding who the next manager should be, that really should not be anywhere near the top of you list on why you would want to shortlist. 

Cafc43v3r said:

RonnieMoore said:

Braziliance said:

I don’t think Cawley would have tweeted if he was wide of the mark, either TS is lying until it’s official or we have got someone better then Garner which has caused the delay, I don’t really mind either outcome but I expect it to be the first 

TS not lying just cooling the talk before it’s signed and sealed … he being honourable to both Swindon and Garner 

I know you won't answer this but....why do you go on one forum and spout one load of bullshit, then post on another boasting about said load of old bollocks whilst simultaneously spouting another load of waffle?  I mean is your life really that sad?

I actually feel sorry for you, you sad sad human being.

7 years on and it’s obviously still fun for him….

buckshee said:

I won’t rest happy until someone makes a song up for next season for Ben Garner using the classic Informer by Snow as the backing. 

I’m not sure @seth plum is too familiar with Snow’s repertoire, but it would be good for him to give it a go 

Scoham said:

oohaahmortimer said:

investors lol
no one is ever getting a return on us, they're burning dough 

Disagree.

We’ve been told enough times all an owner has to do is hire Peter Varney as CEO then sit back and watch the good times return.

Easy.

I think it’s hire Peter Varney as CEO then listen to his advice. Slightly different.

RodneyCharltonTrotta said:

Thing is it's about being pragmatic.  It's not a Karel Fraeye type appointment.  

We have no say in who is manager this time (albeit our vocal support for JJ getting the job did appear to sway that decision). Therefore we can either piss and moan and be defeatist between now and the start of the season or see what unfolds in the coming weeks in the transfer market and what side turns out on 30 July.


There did not seem to be a huge consensus other than jumping on the Beale and Taylor bandwagon (myself included) based on tenuous Charlton links from back when Frank Butcher was still in Eastenders and sentimentality added to Taylor's laudable promotion.

Yes this appointment (if it happens!) is a gamble but so is everyone. Bar a few, many thought Adkins looked a sensible approach on paper and most wanted Jackson and neither worked out under this framework that the owner has put in place.  TS is 2 years into the game now and this appointment is very much his man.

If he's (Garner's or whoever comes in) not up to it, if he's not backed in the transfer markets or if he's hindered in doing his job by the framework and parameters in place then that's on Sandgaard. 

I'm not very knowledgeable on these things but I don't know who realistically we would appoint who would be a guaranteed success. 

We're not currently fishing in the same pool probably as we were 10 - 15 years ago given our basket case history, the strange way the club seems to be set up with the recruitment etc and the fact we're established in this shite league with other bigger clubs with likely bigger budgets so it's not necessarily as an appealing opportunity as we think it is. 

Need to get behind the bloke and team whoever comes in and if it turns out to be a pile of shite then there will be ample opportunity to make our views on failure known.

For the record I am not expecting anything but the same as past few windows this next few weeks which in my mind sets us up for a worse season than last whether we have Garner, Guardiola or Ghandi picking the side.  But I might be pleasantly surprised and I have no influence over it so might as well wait until the evidence of my concerns come to fruition before getting overly humpy about it.

I'm with you, RCT. Wadhurst is clearly united in its views. 

A very sensible, fair post IMO with no histrionics whilst pointing out the issues that cannot be overlooked & that are part & parcel of Sandgaard's ownership. 

I've kept my powder, blusher & polyfilla dry since we heard the mutterings on social media late last night whilst we licked our wounds in Canterbury. And have kept my counsel until I could read all the comments on this thread back home. 

Whilst being in the "underwhelmed " category initially, I have since moved into the "could be a decent appointment" group following more information about BG plus the endorsements given by former colleagues in the business. Only time will tell if I have been led down the garden path or indeed if my judgement impaired as a result of several large Zinfandels on our travels yesterday....

But I am happy to give the guy the benefit of the doubt should his appointment be confirmed as it appears the deed has not yet been completed. 

However, what does concern me at this moment in time, is the question of just how much input he will be allowed in his role under the scrutiny of the Sandgaard family. This is a football man who has spent years in the business and as such has gained a deal of experience & respect, and who may have to fight for his views to be heard & ( that important word again ) respected by those who think they know better ....We can but hope that he has the self belief & determination to fight his corner should it be necessary. And I wish him well.

It is also becoming increasingly clear that TS has grave concerns around the financial aspect of running a football club & as such, it appears that he is seeking to cut costs across the board, especially staffing  & squad wise. Nothing new here of course but concerning nevertheless, especially as he is determined to set his own course for success in SE7 and to do it his way....Deja vu indeed ! As a result, his cloth is becoming strained at the seams in order to address the Academy upgrade including the recruitment of additional personnel, the Women's team & allied costs & his "creative" ways of fulfilling his dream of filling The Valley....Taking advice & even listening to those who have been there, done it & wear the T shirt is NOT on his agenda. 

So, we await further news from HQ as his latest cunning plan evolves, whilst hoping for the best but fearing the worst. 

What's new ?

MuttleyCAFC said:

FishCostaFortune said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

FishCostaFortune said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

From my perspective, Garner could be better, the same or worse than JJ. As JJ wasn't given a chance to fail I don't know. I hope he is better of course, but I don't think anybody can know that yet which makes sacking JJ a bit silly IMO. Having said that, it will cost Sandgaard more if he does get it wrong and its his money. I will get behind Garner and hope he is the man for the job.

You could say that any manager that we were linked with could have been better, the same or worse than JJ. 

However at the end of the day if there was an vacant position for a club, and both Garner and JJ were going for it I would expect 99% of the time Garner would get it. 

Garner has way, way, way more successful coaching experience across the board then JJ. If you listen to that podcast or read about him, he is from the Beale mould, a real student of the coaching game, who has worked tirelessly to get himself into this position, by going through the age groups and by completing committing himself to everything about coaching.

To add to this he also has a successful body or work behind him especially on coaching sides to perform well above expectations.

So I really can’t see how it’s a silly decision.

Garner has a failure at Bristol Rovers and a partial success at Swindon on his record. That isn't to say he won't be a success but I would say there is as much chance JJ would have been. He didn't take long to find a League 2 job which is where Garner has come from. JJ had the advantage of being in post and having a better kowledge of the players. We can argue one way or the other but this was not appointing a Warburton or Wilder which you could then make a stronger case for a better chance of success. 

If we didn't appoint Charlton managers from within we wouldn't have had Curbs or Bowyer and Powell was a Charlton man given a chance. Where are the examples of researched recruitments working out? Dowie, Peeters, Luzon, Slade? I'll take just one success if you can find one.

Indeed Garner did have a failure at Bristol Rovers, but I assume you’ve read about the mitigating circumstances surrounding that? Lots of successful managers have had failures in their careers.

Garner has also been part of a coaching set up with got Palace and West Brom into the top 10 in the premiership, and a Swindon team who started the season with 7 players a penalty away from the play off finals all whilst having the best attacking stats in the league (hardly what I would call a partial success). 

All this alongside coaching across various youth groups, and working to get where he is now in terms of coaching for close to 20 years

JJ has had coaching success in his own right, but he also has had coaching failures and a much shorter and less defined and successful career.

Again, if it was a straight shoot out at another club for the vacant position, I am sure Garner would get it above JJ.

Also on this point has no other football team ever in the history of football had success under a manager who had no previous connection to the club?

Or, have some managers with previous connections to their clubs done well and some have not. And some managers who have not had connections with their clubs done well, and some haven’t?

When deciding who the next manager should be, that really should not be anywhere near the top of you list on why you would want to shortlist. 

But there is a reason why it would. In fact there are two. Firstly a popular manager buys additional time with the fans. Which can take pressure off the players. On top of that, when you go through a process, it is harder to act quickly if it doesn't work whereas JJ could have been given until October say.

What I don't want is the misunderstanding that I am assuming Garner will be a failure. I know people tend to read what they want to but it is a case of taking a chance in the pond we are fishing in. I would have liked us to play the odds a bit better but there is no reason why Garner won't be a success and I wish him well. 

The point I have been making is if you are taking a chance, why not take it with JJ first. Or maybe we should have sacked Powell when his team were playing the worst football in memory in League One. Anyway, it has happened and now we have to wait and see. If Garner fails, I won't be saying I told you so because as far as I am concerend he has just as much chance of succeeding as many others in the pond, including JJ. But preperation for a crucial season has been disrupted because of this premature process IMO.

Can’t say fairer than that Muttley, there are clearly areas we disagree on around this, but I think you’re taking a very sensible approach.

As you say there’s no really telling if this will be a successful appointment or not, but I’m with you in as much as the sooner anything like this is sorted out the sooner we can begin to look towards next season.

Callumcafc said:

Swisdom said:

People working in the game have praised him and his approach.  People that have worked with him. 

A load of internet warriors haven’t heard of him so decide he’s shit because Joey Barton says so.  

I know who I would listen to

Especially when BG's Swindon beat JB's Bristol R 3-1 on their own pitch only a few months later.

Does it matter because BG's Swindon didn't get promoted and JB's Bristol R did. 

oohaahmortimer said:

When Airman ‘likes’ that post it scares me , we’ve got another nutbag , let’s hope he’s more useful than that goalkeeping coach  from Swindon’s nutsack .

We have "known" that Martin is in charge of recruitment and many of us have raised it as a massive red flag.  The proof of the pudding will of course be in the eating (happy with that @Henry Irving) but it is a big concern.

With the back ground of that there is little point employing a "manager", be it Adkins, Taylor, Warburton or Duff.

Whilst I don't buy into the buzz word bingo that is a young, hungry, progressive coach, thatnis exactly what we need, because of the way the club is run.

StrikerFirmani said:

Callumcafc said:

Swisdom said:

People working in the game have praised him and his approach.  People that have worked with him. 

A load of internet warriors haven’t heard of him so decide he’s shit because Joey Barton says so.  

I know who I would listen to

Especially when BG's Swindon beat JB's Bristol R 3-1 on their own pitch only a few months later.

Does it matter because BG's Swindon didn't get promoted and JB's Bristol R did. 

Bristol Rovers didn’t start pre season with 6 players though so a little different. 
I think a lot of people are downplaying the above. Starting the season that short of players and still getting a competitive side out in the play offs is very impressive.

Braziliance said:

RonnieMoore said:

Braziliance said:

I don’t think Cawley would have tweeted if he was wide of the mark, either TS is lying until it’s official or we have got someone better then Garner which has caused the delay, I don’t really mind either outcome but I expect it to be the first 

TS not lying just cooling the talk before it’s signed and sealed … he being honourable to both Swindon and Garner 

I am a big supporter of TS and been vocal about it, but if he has outright denied that Garner is our man and he becomes our manager then he has lied whichever way you wanna paint it. 

The honourable thing to do would be to stay quiet until things official and not have a jolly chin wag with supporters on social media, no disrespect to the supporters who message him but it’s quite peculiar that he would share our important business like that with fans, as much as I like how vocal he is about us..

What has ts said? I saw that ronniemoore posted a comment so I took it with a massive pinch of salt