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Next manager - Ben Garner confirmed (p256)
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It doesnt really matter what budget it comes out of because its all out of Thomas's pocket. My guess is coincidentally about the same as the fee we agreed for Kirk, that Blackpool didn't exercise.Mendonca In Asdas said:Just wondered if we were still paying Adkins salary , and whether thats come out of this season budget, how much would we have had to pay to fire him?
I don't think that in its self will influence the summer. We paid relatively big money for Aneke and Fraser after Adkins was sacked.
As with early Roland it isn't how much has been spent, it's how it's been spent is the problem.2 -
Why would a manager except a performance related contract if he doesn't have a say on players.seth plum said:Aren’t all managers jobs performance related, squad or no squad, control or no control?
I don’t believe TS had anybody lined up to replace Jacko, but I still believe Jacko lost his job because of the shameful performance at Ipswich, as that event made up Sandgaard’s mind for him.
A manager at, say, Oldham can still get sacked with poor performances even with no resources. Yet there will be plenty who would apply even for the job at Oldham.
If a manager doesn’t want a performance related contract they can surely look elsewhere.
You can't say to a manager that you have to finish shall we say top six without having a big say on who we sign.
The only manager who would take the job under these conditions would be an out of work manager desperate for a job.1 -
All managers have an ego, some bigger than others, the "I could be the one that....." really appeals to a lot of them. That's why players like Tony Watt keep getting signed.blackpool72 said:
Why would a manager except a performance related contract if he doesn't have a say on players.seth plum said:Aren’t all managers jobs performance related, squad or no squad, control or no control?
I don’t believe TS had anybody lined up to replace Jacko, but I still believe Jacko lost his job because of the shameful performance at Ipswich, as that event made up Sandgaard’s mind for him.
A manager at, say, Oldham can still get sacked with poor performances even with no resources. Yet there will be plenty who would apply even for the job at Oldham.
If a manager doesn’t want a performance related contract they can surely look elsewhere.
You can't say to a manager that you have to finish shall we say top six without having a big say on who we sign.
The only manager who would take the job under these conditions would be an out of work manager desperate for a job.1 -
A good agent will try and negotiate better terms or write in mitigation clauses. They would also look for bonus clauses, playing budget increase, etc. The list is endless but they should eventually lead to an agreement, but that is what takes the time. Performance targets are not the worst thing in the world as long as the starting point is acceptable and the step up for achieving them worthwhile. It could be argued that they are better than rolling contracts. All in the detail.Chunes said:Surely any manager with an ounce of sense won't agree to performance-related clauses when they have no control over recruitment.
’No’ is often the start of negotiations, ask any parent of teenagers. If they are still talking then at least it would appear to be something both sides want.
IMO the leaking of the deal was pressure put on by the agent and the ‘we are still interviewing’ the response. All part of the game. I suspect the ‘hopefully by mid June’ and the ‘a lot of good candidates’ are as well.Is SG doing the negotiating?3 -
I mean, it absolutely is. Are you ok?1968CAFC said:
None-Sequitur a noun is not the correct wordGarrymanilow said:
Welp, that's my non-sequitur of the week.1968CAFC said:
No actually I own 5 companies and have supported CAFC since 1968.Hal1x said:
Let me guess you are a glass half empty sort of person.1968CAFC said:Well lady’s & Gentlemen I hope I am proved wrong, but I am getting the feeling we will end up with someone far worse the JJ was and more has been crap players on free transfers or loans.
so far what has TS actually achieved apart from buy the Club? And he wants premier League football 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👎👎👎👎
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
but a sense of humour might help 🤣🤣🤣
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None of us know what's going on behind the scenes, or if they do, they are quite rightly not telling.
Of course, we all believe that we should have had a manager appointed already or asap.
But much of the meltdown and anxt of the past week has been triggered because the Ben Garner situation was leaked.
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Sure i read somewhere (which of course doesn't mean it's true) that Beale is on around 600k a year at Villa. I'd find it hard to believe that Adkins who'd been out of work for 2 years was on more than that.Cafc43v3r said:
His salary at Villa was less than Adkins was on here and very similar to what Bowyer was on.RonnieMoore said:
Plus his salary … was way out of league oneNorthStandUltra said:New manager won’t be Michael Beale, he’s been given permission by Villa to speak to QPR.Big miss IMO but unlikely to have happened given our League 1 status1 -
Henry Irving said:
We know that Michael Beale applied the first time around and had an interview according to Thomas Sandgaard. Thomas then used Michael Beale as a yardstick that we wanted a more ambitious appointment.
So unless Sandgaard tried to head hunt this time why would Beale apply again when his stock is high and he can get a job in the Championship ?
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I agreeseth plum said:Aren’t all managers jobs performance related, squad or no squad, control or no control?
I don’t believe TS had anybody lined up to replace Jacko, but I still believe Jacko lost his job because of the shameful performance at Ipswich, as that event made up Sandgaard’s mind for him.
A manager at, say, Oldham can still get sacked with poor performances even with no resources. Yet there will be plenty who would apply even for the job at Oldham.
If a manager doesn’t want a performance related contract they can surely look elsewhere.
Finishing 13th made it cheaper for TS to remove Jacko, but if we had finished the season well, playing good football and showing real signs that we were building something, I'm sure Jacko would still be with us.11 -
I believe it was reported at the time Bowyer signed his new contract, Roland was paying him £400k pa.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Sure i read somewhere (which of course doesn't mean it's true) that Beale is on around 600k a year at Villa. I'd find it hard to believe that Adkins who'd been out of work for 2 years was on more than that.Cafc43v3r said:
His salary at Villa was less than Adkins was on here and very similar to what Bowyer was on.RonnieMoore said:
Plus his salary … was way out of league oneNorthStandUltra said:New manager won’t be Michael Beale, he’s been given permission by Villa to speak to QPR.Big miss IMO but unlikely to have happened given our League 1 status
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Remember Adkins doesn't have to work and was alleged to have turned down championship clubs, and recommended Crosby in his place, between Hull and us.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Sure i read somewhere (which of course doesn't mean it's true) that Beale is on around 600k a year at Villa. I'd find it hard to believe that Adkins who'd been out of work for 2 years was on more than that.Cafc43v3r said:
His salary at Villa was less than Adkins was on here and very similar to what Bowyer was on.RonnieMoore said:
Plus his salary … was way out of league oneNorthStandUltra said:New manager won’t be Michael Beale, he’s been given permission by Villa to speak to QPR.Big miss IMO but unlikely to have happened given our League 1 status
He also left Hull when he could have stayed. Like Warburton now he wasn't a jobbing manager desperate for the next job to pay the bills.0 -
Yes. But failure isn't explicitly written into manager's contracts as a standard in this industry, creating a much smaller pay-off, something TS is trying to do.seth plum said:Aren’t all managers jobs performance related, squad or no squad, control or no control?
seth plum said:
And I think that's what they'll do.If a manager doesn’t want a performance related contract they can surely look elsewhere.
At best this policy protects the club from paying a large fee to a failing manager, and at worst it limits our choice of managers to the small pool that would accept its terms!0 -
Adkins was on 12k a week? Find that very hard to believeCafc43v3r said:
His salary at Villa was less than Adkins was on here and very similar to what Bowyer was on.RonnieMoore said:
Plus his salary … was way out of league oneNorthStandUltra said:New manager won’t be Michael Beale, he’s been given permission by Villa to speak to QPR.Big miss IMO but unlikely to have happened given our League 1 status1 -
Can we take it that Duncan Fergusson, Wallace & Gromit, Uncle Tom Cobley 'n' all have been granted permission to talk to Charlton then?Henry Irving said:1 -
Did I read at the time of Jacko's sacking, Thomas mentioned something about unattractive football and that he wanted to see the team play in a more appealing way? Something like that.killerandflash said:
I agreeseth plum said:Aren’t all managers jobs performance related, squad or no squad, control or no control?
I don’t believe TS had anybody lined up to replace Jacko, but I still believe Jacko lost his job because of the shameful performance at Ipswich, as that event made up Sandgaard’s mind for him.
A manager at, say, Oldham can still get sacked with poor performances even with no resources. Yet there will be plenty who would apply even for the job at Oldham.
If a manager doesn’t want a performance related contract they can surely look elsewhere.
Finishing 13th made it cheaper for TS to remove Jacko, but if we had finished the season well, playing good football and showing real signs that we were building something, I'm sure Jacko would still be with us.
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And the contract Southall gave him was more than that.Oggy Red said:
I believe it was reported at the time Bowyer signed his new contract, Roland was paying him £400k pa.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Sure i read somewhere (which of course doesn't mean it's true) that Beale is on around 600k a year at Villa. I'd find it hard to believe that Adkins who'd been out of work for 2 years was on more than that.Cafc43v3r said:
His salary at Villa was less than Adkins was on here and very similar to what Bowyer was on.RonnieMoore said:
Plus his salary … was way out of league oneNorthStandUltra said:New manager won’t be Michael Beale, he’s been given permission by Villa to speak to QPR.Big miss IMO but unlikely to have happened given our League 1 status1 -
Why are we assuming that the manager has no say in the transfers?4
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swordfish said:
Can we take it that Duncan Fergusson, Wallace & Gromit, Uncle Tom Cobley 'n' all have been granted permission to talk to Charlton then?Henry Irving said:
Not too sure about Wallace and Gromit....heard that Gromit was a bit of a pup...
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Dear Mr. Garner,
Thanks for joining the interview last week. We are delighted to offer you the job at Thomas Sandgaard's Charlton Athletic Football Club.
Here are the terms:
Position: Head Coach
Salary: 5k per week
Period 2-year contract
Conditions:
You must achieve a top 6 finish. Failure to do so will result in a 1-month pay-off and immediate termination of your contract.
You will have no say in recruitment, which will be run by Thomas's son, Martin Sandgaard. However, you are expected to get results with the team he puts together, or else you will be sacked.
We look forward to your acceptance!
Yours,
Club Secretary
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A bit of factual analysis.
I've said (repeatedly) that Sandgaard is trying to bring his successful business principles into our world of football.
On that basis, I thought I'd take a look at the Job descriptions for current vacancies on his Zynex website.
Almost 90% of his 227 vacancies are for Medical Device Sales reps. and here's the wording he has used (italics and bold text are his, not mine):Do you want to join a successful fast-paced growing company with opportunity to help patients and make money?
The Zynex mission is to improve the life-quality of patients suffering from debilitating pain. We are seeking: Self-confident, self-starting, resourceful, assertive, and persuasive individuals who will promote and generate prescriptions from physical therapists and pain management doctors for our NexWave pain management device. The NexWave is an alternative to opioid pain medications. You must be able to build loyalty with clinicians and doctors developing your prescription-based stream of business. Able to demonstrate influencing and sales skills, and you must possess the drive and discipline to accomplish goals on a weekly basis. Previous sales experience is a plus, but you may qualify based on a strong desire to be the best. Requirements: Must have reliable transportation, valid driver’s license, and mobile phone. We offer training, a generous base salary, uncapped commissions, benefits, with a $20,000 sign-on bonus and management support for your success.
What I will highlight is this:
"you must possess the drive and discipline to accomplish goals on a weekly basis"
I'm pretty sure that this performance-related approach did for Jackson, and Sandgaard won't let that approach go. "Hey, it works in the business world, so why not use it here? Football is no different."
This is where Sandgaard needs to take advice. To find the middle ground.
Yes, have your performance targets. No problem with that. But any contract needs to include agreed caveats (on both sides), clearly identified extenuating circumstances (on both sides) and a mechanism to review if and when the unexpected happens (on both sides).
This is not typical practice in medical sales ... you either deliver or get the boot.
I suspect that our new manager hiring process is suffering from this type of inflexibility.
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It is starting to feel like the football club is being run like a retail outlet now.0
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Tempt Neil Warnock out of retirement - he would get us top 6 - and decent loan players plus give refs some sh@t - happy valley 🤣🤣🤣🤣2
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I quite enjoy when this forum decends into internet Fan Fiction
Plot twist idea - Martin turns out not to be Thomas' real son!!!!13 -
It ain't done until it's done and so far it ain't done.soapboxsam said:Stu_of_Kunming said:
Which is why, imo, we still don’t have one.Chunes said:Surely any manager with an ounce of sense won't agree to performance-related clauses when they have no control over recruitment.No manager, half a squad and the season starts earlier than ever before, but better not suggest other clubs are ahead of us.
Ben Garner took over Swindon with about 7 players and after Bristol Rovers didn't work out he didn't have many options of getting a manager's job in the EFL. Charlton would be a step up despite the implosion of the last decade or so at Cafc.
Just a gut instinct but ever since JJ left I have been convinced that the decision would be made on the 31/5 or 1/6.
I believe Cawley contacts have given him the correct information and unless Thomas Sandgaard has done a U-turn because of the initial negativity when RC did the scoop then Ben Garner will be the next person in the hot seat.
People can make up reasons like TS coming over or holidays but the fact remains it's not on the OS here or at Swindon so it's not done.
Could still be or could not happen at all.
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As CEO, no. But, as CEO, he is responsible for what goes out. And he, via his staff, will have endorsed them. They reflect his Company ethos.WSS said:
You really think he has written those job descriptions?Dave Rudd said:A bit of factual analysis.
Almost 90% of his 227 vacancies are for Medical Device Sales reps. and here's the wording he has used (italics and bold text are his, not mine):
Put it another way, if he disagreed with them, do you think he would have allowed them to go out into the public domain?
But that is not the point.
The point is that Sandgaard comes from a world where black-and-white sales targets are the norm.0 -
JonT_Abs said:I quite enjoy when this forum decends into internet Fan Fiction
Plot twist idea - Martin turns out not to be Thomas' real son!!!!
He was a black box adoption1 -
Being interviewed doesn’t necessarily mean he applied. A phone call by Charlton to Beale asking for a chat could have been what happened.soapboxsam said:Henry Irving said:
We know that Michael Beale applied the first time around and had an interview according to Thomas Sandgaard. Thomas then used Michael Beale as a yardstick that we wanted a more ambitious appointment.
So unless Sandgaard tried to head hunt this time why would Beale apply again when his stock is high and he can get a job in the Championship ?0 -
Dave Rudd said:
As CEO, no. But, as CEO, he is responsible for what goes out. And he, via his staff, will have endorsed them. They reflect his Company ethos.WSS said:
You really think he has written those job descriptions?Dave Rudd said:A bit of factual analysis.
Almost 90% of his 227 vacancies are for Medical Device Sales reps. and here's the wording he has used (italics and bold text are his, not mine):
Put it another way, if he disagreed with them, do you think he would have allowed them to go out into the public domain?
But that is not the point.
The point is that Sandgaard comes from a world where black-and-white sales targets are the norm.
I'd wager he hasn't got a clue about what is said in any job descriptions or adverts in the public domain. Like 99.9% of CEOs in "big companies".
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Thomas has said it's Sandgaard junior that identifies new players and Gallen does the negotiations with their clubs and agents.jacob_CAFC said:Why are we assuming that the manager has no say in the transfers?
Not sure where that leaves the manager but it could be a reason why we haven't appointed one yet.1
