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Grammar Police etc... HQ - Pedants get you're fill hear.
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Thank goodness you said this, I thought I were the only one who was brought up under this illiterate form of an educational system, there was no thought given to the written rules, they were just pleased if you could undertake joined up writing that was semi legible and read the alphabet.Raith_C_Chattonell said:As one of the great unwashed who attended a Secondary Modern school in the 60s I look in on this thread with envy.
We did a bit of English, a bit of Maths and lots of Physical Exercise. At the end of our final term we went to the careers office and were offered jobs in the Army or the Royal Navy. (The RAF was reserved for high(er) achievers).
Anyway, we covered the basics - full stops, commas, capital letters etc, but we were allowed nowhere near prepositions, conjunctions, interjections and pronouns. I subsequently bought Craig Shrives book 'Grammar Rules', but I'm afraid it has had little affect on me ... or should that be effect? Oh hold on, Craig says in order to understand which one to use, you must know the difference between a noun and a verb, so it's back to the drawing board for me.
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AddicksAddict said:
I'm more interested in Jess than her car.thai malaysia addick said:
I agree but it gets a bit tougher when a person’s name ends in S.Billy_Mix said:The apostrophe's wanton and idiotic misuse is truly dispiriting.
It ain't difficult really.
On the end of a noun it indicates possession. Billy's blood pressure is elevated by the apostrophe's misuse.
In the middle of an abbreviation such as ain't, it indicates missing letters.
It has no place in plurals, plural's plural is plurals.
If it's really baffling you, its omission is probably your best bet.
He's going on about his pet peeve, a lot.
Pronouns: he, she, it, they
Possessive pronouns: mine, yours, his, hers, its, theirs.
I like Jess’s car.
I like Jess’ car.
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Why do some people say Anne Diamond when it should be a diamond?
Before you know it they’ll be saying an hotel.5 -
An hotel is an interesting one and worth a little more explanation. The "a" or "an" rule depends upon whether the following word starts with a vowel or a consonant. But NOT what they are but how they sound. So, of course, as you point out, it should be a hotel because you pronounce the "h". However for other words that is not the case. For example, an hour, an honourable man, etc.SoundAsa£ said:Why do some people say Anne Diamond when it should be a diamond?
Before you know it they’ll be saying an hotel.
But here's the rub. The Guardian and The Telegraph style guides together with the Oxford English Dictionary go along with this concept. While The Times style guide is still sticking with an hotel!1 -
I bow to your superiority. I also put a redundant apostrophe in "yous" that you should have picked up.AddicksAddict said:
Absolutely. One does like having an easy way with which to point out one's superiority.Dippenhall said:Grammar only exists because printing was invented and lack of order in language was anathema to the self important Latin and Greek scholars of the day.
And the rules of grammar, like not starting a sentence with “And”, were inventions of those scholars; the first self appointed grammar police.
Knowledge of the rules defined your superior status and set you apart from the uneducated unwashed majority.
If printing and books were developed by Geordies we might be following the Steve Bruce oral style who thought “we’re team played well today and you’s can see it on MOTD later”
By the way, you missed out the hyphen in self-important and self-appointed.
On an entirely different point, I have always struggled with "lie" and "lay". Only recently did the penny drop that laying is doing it to something like lay a pen on the table but lie i what you do to yourself when you lie down. Just in case it helps similar peasants who struggled with this bit of grammar.2 -
I'll see your twenny and your secetary and raise you a HaitchJamesSeed said:
Secretary was replaced years ago by secetary.scidbox said:Not grammar but pronunciation. All I hear on radio, podcasts and TV is:
Twenny. Twenny minutes, twenny grand, twenny dead people.
I'm no pedant, but it's become so ubiquitous that twenty is seriously being lost.This. Is. A. Disgrace.
Makes my hackles rise, my teeth itch and my stomach turn! The letter H is spelled aitch and pronounced AYCH. There bain't be no huh at the start of H. B'int right an it b'int proper I tells ye.0 -
I struggle with bear, bare and bair.0
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I despair with nuculear when I hear people say it. Surely to dog it's nuclear as in new clear.0
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In Nz ‘beer’ and ‘bear’ are indistinguishable when spoken . So should a Kiwi visiting Canada say “ oh my god , there’s half a dozen beers chilling in the river just around the bend” you might want to ask him to be more specificSoundAsa£ said:I struggle with bear, bare and bair.2 -
Guilty as chargedman_at_milletts said:I despair with nuculear when I hear people say it. Surely to dog it's nuclear as in new clear.guilt (n.)
Old English gylt "crime, sin, moral defect, failure of duty," of unknown origin, though some suspect a connection to Old English gieldan "to pay for, debt," but OED editors find this "inadmissible phonologically." The -u- is an unetymological insertion. In law, "That state of a moral agent which results from his commission of a crime or an offense wilfully or by consent" [Century Dictionary], from early 14c. Then use for "sense of guilt," considered erroneous by purists, is first recorded 1680s. Guilt by association recorded by 1919
guilt (v.)
"to influence someone by appealing to his sense of guiltiness," by 1995, from guilt (n.). Related: Guilted; guilting. Old English had also a verbal form, gyltan (Middle English gilt), but it was intransitive and meant "to commit an offense, act criminally."
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Don't know if it's just a typo but taken from the BBC sport website talking about the England game.
Surely he means 'of' or is talking about the dark arts of shirt pulling?0 -
The he’s/his thing is just predictive text screwing up isn’t it? No one could mix those two up, surely.AddicksAddict said:
See John run. He's late for work and his car's broken down.Covered End said:
He's = he is.ParkinsonOut said:I get irritated by the people who don’t know the difference between HIS & HE’S 🤦🏻♀️
His = belonging to him.
He's having a bit of a mare today = He is having a bit of a mare today.
The car belongs to John. It is his car.0 -
Check Nick Abbott’s latest podcast. Hilarious attempt to get an old dear to say aitch rather that haitch. It’s on the Global Player App.Billy_Mix said:
I'll see your twenny and your secetary and raise you a HaitchJamesSeed said:
Secretary was replaced years ago by secetary.scidbox said:Not grammar but pronunciation. All I hear on radio, podcasts and TV is:
Twenny. Twenny minutes, twenny grand, twenny dead people.
I'm no pedant, but it's become so ubiquitous that twenty is seriously being lost.This. Is. A. Disgrace.
Makes my hackles rise, my teeth itch and my stomach turn! The letter H is spelled aitch and pronounced AYCH. There bain't be no huh at the start of H. B'int right an it b'int proper I tells ye.0 -
That's reported speech so I thought you'd typed the extraneous apostrophe that Bruce spoke.Dippenhall said:
I bow to your superiority. I also put a redundant apostrophe in "yous" that you should have picked up.AddicksAddict said:
Absolutely. One does like having an easy way with which to point out one's superiority.Dippenhall said:Grammar only exists because printing was invented and lack of order in language was anathema to the self important Latin and Greek scholars of the day.
And the rules of grammar, like not starting a sentence with “And”, were inventions of those scholars; the first self appointed grammar police.
Knowledge of the rules defined your superior status and set you apart from the uneducated unwashed majority.
If printing and books were developed by Geordies we might be following the Steve Bruce oral style who thought “we’re team played well today and you’s can see it on MOTD later”
By the way, you missed out the hyphen in self-important and self-appointed.
On an entirely different point, I have always struggled with "lie" and "lay". Only recently did the penny drop that laying is doing it to something like lay a pen on the table but lie i what you do to yourself when you lie down. Just in case it helps similar peasants who struggled with this bit of grammar.0 -
Mary had a little lamb.SoundAsa£ said:I struggle with bear, bare and bair.
She also had a bear.
I've often seen her little lamb
But I've never seen her bare.0 -
Not sure whether to post this here or on "Jokes" but I decide here.
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That's just a dialect issue. In your dialect it's spelled aitch, but in some dialects it's spelled/pronounced haitch.Billy_Mix said:
I'll see your twenny and your secetary and raise you a HaitchJamesSeed said:
Secretary was replaced years ago by secetary.scidbox said:Not grammar but pronunciation. All I hear on radio, podcasts and TV is:
Twenny. Twenny minutes, twenny grand, twenny dead people.
I'm no pedant, but it's become so ubiquitous that twenty is seriously being lost.This. Is. A. Disgrace.
Makes my hackles rise, my teeth itch and my stomach turn! The letter H is spelled aitch and pronounced AYCH. There bain't be no huh at the start of H. B'int right an it b'int proper I tells ye.
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