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Next manager - Ben Garner confirmed (p256)
Comments
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I'm struggling to see the strengths of any of our CB's at present.DubaiCAFC said:
I think you are right - but my question is, if you haven't got the players to play the way you want to play, why play that way? Why not play to the players strengths.SELR_addicks said:Garner will be in a division above us soon.
He's not the problem.0 -
It’s the argument between building something for the longer term and focussing on results in the short term.DubaiCAFC said:
I think you are right - but my question is, if you haven't got the players to play the way you want to play, why play that way? Why not play to the players strengths.SELR_addicks said:Garner will be in a division above us soon.
He's not the problem.
The issue is former is the right way to go when you either give the manager the backing his needs or you can give him plenty of time. I don’t believe TS can afford to do either.0 -
Don't get your point re JFC, how you can judge him as "Not the player he was" is strange, he hasn't played in the league this season, best he had was on the bench v FGR..Dazzler21 said:
I have a feeling JFC not playing is an instruction. No way he's behind Morgan or McGrandles, but also he's not the player he once was either. To not even be around the match day squad is farcical.BR7_addick said:My only criticism of garner is picking Morgan over Payne or JFC. Other than that there’s no way I’m ready to blame the guy yet.
Agree that there may be instructions coming in to somehow control the playing squad, JFC should be involved within the first team certainly ahead of Morgan, something is very array within the club at the moment..2 -
It's not just TS's favoured system, it's Garner's system as well. He likes passing, possession football, based on building from the back.MuttleyCAFC said:
I think an inexperienced player would do the same. One of the concerns I had when Garner got the job was his fexibility to change things if it veered away from Sandgaards preferred system. I had this concern because I think Adkins was in that trap.Oggy Red said:
We can plainly see that we're playing decent expansive passing football but toothless up front and vulnerable on the counter at the back.Pavoren007 said:I hope Ben has other formations and tactics in his locker, not a criticism inferring point, just that he has not been provided the right resources to play his preferred approach, despite Thomas trying to find a coach complimentary in style to what he wants to see.
It's like 3 quarters of the jigsaw pieces are there but a couple of vital pieces are missing.
But without first finding those missing pieces, what's going to change?
Is it madness to keep doing the same thing over and over, yet expecting a different outcome?
What would an experienced manager do?
I reckon he'd look at what he has, and without sacrificing all of his system ethos, he'd adapt the formation and gameplan to play to the strengths of his available players.
And he would think, if you can't score sufficient goals, then you need to find a way to stop conceding.
Having said that, even within the system he could look at discarding those that can't contribute goals and promote those that can. Simply to compensate for a lack of goals where you would ideally want them to be.0 -
I prefer filet steak, fine wine, luxurious automobiles and sun drenched holidays. My budget doesn't extend to many or very often so rather than go broke on daydreams and indulgence I tailor my lifestyle to the available resources. Anything else is ruinous stupidity.killerandflash said:
It's not just TS's favoured system, it's Garner's system as well. He likes passing, possession football, based on building from the back.MuttleyCAFC said:
I think an inexperienced player would do the same. One of the concerns I had when Garner got the job was his fexibility to change things if it veered away from Sandgaards preferred system. I had this concern because I think Adkins was in that trap.Oggy Red said:
We can plainly see that we're playing decent expansive passing football but toothless up front and vulnerable on the counter at the back.Pavoren007 said:I hope Ben has other formations and tactics in his locker, not a criticism inferring point, just that he has not been provided the right resources to play his preferred approach, despite Thomas trying to find a coach complimentary in style to what he wants to see.
It's like 3 quarters of the jigsaw pieces are there but a couple of vital pieces are missing.
But without first finding those missing pieces, what's going to change?
Is it madness to keep doing the same thing over and over, yet expecting a different outcome?
What would an experienced manager do?
I reckon he'd look at what he has, and without sacrificing all of his system ethos, he'd adapt the formation and gameplan to play to the strengths of his available players.
And he would think, if you can't score sufficient goals, then you need to find a way to stop conceding.
Having said that, even within the system he could look at discarding those that can't contribute goals and promote those that can. Simply to compensate for a lack of goals where you would ideally want them to be.
Garner's abiding denial of the state of his playing resources is equally ruinous and stupid.3 -
Garner will be in the Championship soon. It's up to TS whether that is with us, or not.ElfsborgAddick said:
Are we getting relegated then?SELR_addicks said:Garner will be in a division above us soon.
He's not the problem.1 -
I don't get why people think Garner is some sort of managerial superstar, that other clubs will be fighting over. Before joining us he'd been relegated with Bristol R and had a decent season in L2 but without promotion with Swindon, so unless WE do well this season, there's nothing in his track record to suggest a Championship club would be after him.SELR_addicks said:
Garner will be in the Championship soon. It's up to TS whether that is with us, or not.ElfsborgAddick said:
Are we getting relegated then?SELR_addicks said:Garner will be in a division above us soon.
He's not the problem.9 -
think Sandgaard will give Garner more time,Cafc43v3r said:
If your homeless and you pick up 3 £1 coins off the floor do you have any input to your income?SmileLikePender said:I think we've signed about 8 players and three of those are permanent deals with players from Swindon, yet the general consensus is that Garner doesn't have any input on player signings?I think there are different ways to look at our financial position. Garner didn't get all the players he wanted. We didn't spend any money on transfers. However, we can't ignore that our overall spend on players' wages is higher than most in this division, it would be interesting to see a league table based on squad salaries and see where we would be.1 -
This is not true.Jac_52 said:nelsonsleftfoot said:Taking CBT off today and replacing with Kirk. For a moment I thought the Barnsley manager was in charge of our substitutions.
Kirk did more in 30 mins than CBT did in 60 today.
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Because people in football are intelligent enough to know what's going on.killerandflash said:
I don't get why people think Garner is some sort of managerial superstar, that other clubs will be fighting over. Before joining us he'd been relegated with Bristol R and had a decent season in L2 but without promotion with Swindon, so unless WE do well this season, there's nothing in his track record to suggest a Championship club would be after him.SELR_addicks said:
Garner will be in the Championship soon. It's up to TS whether that is with us, or not.ElfsborgAddick said:
Are we getting relegated then?SELR_addicks said:Garner will be in a division above us soon.
He's not the problem.
If you look at his track record and see only results then that's a very simplistic view.
He's clearly got a set style and implements it well when he has the talent to do so. (see Swindon stats last year with 20 new players for example).
If it goes tits up here I don't see that affecting Garner in the slightest, but we are still stuck with our crap owner and scouting department.0 - Sponsored links:
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10-15 years ago, Garner’s W/D/L record would’ve consigned him to at best another League 2 club, if he were to be relieved of his duties.
As the game is today, with the proliferation of new statistics and data driven decision making, he would get more bites at the apple if he wanted to.1 -
Well it's in some ways a dream scenario to build a side almost from scratch, with a decent budget for that division. The Powell 11/12 side was a bit like that. And even then, he didn't actually get Swindon promoted.SELR_addicks said:
Because people in football are intelligent enough to know what's going on.killerandflash said:
I don't get why people think Garner is some sort of managerial superstar, that other clubs will be fighting over. Before joining us he'd been relegated with Bristol R and had a decent season in L2 but without promotion with Swindon, so unless WE do well this season, there's nothing in his track record to suggest a Championship club would be after him.SELR_addicks said:
Garner will be in the Championship soon. It's up to TS whether that is with us, or not.ElfsborgAddick said:
Are we getting relegated then?SELR_addicks said:Garner will be in a division above us soon.
He's not the problem.
If you look at his track record and see only results then that's a very simplistic view.
He's clearly got a set style and implements it well when he has the talent to do so. (see Swindon stats last year with 20 new players for example).
If it goes tits up here I don't see that affecting Garner in the slightest, but we are still stuck with our crap owner and scouting department.
Most jobs aren't like that though, you have to work with the players you inherit. Coach and improve them, and find ways of winning games of football.
I'm not saying Garner is a bad manager, all I'm saying is that he hasn't achieved anything yet, for Championship clubs to be waiting to swoop. Michael Duff did a great job at Cheltenham, which earned him a bigger L1 job. Paul Warne never got offered Championship jobs.5 -
Agree 100% with you that this is about the Garner working with what he has got. He may not have all the players he wants for his preferred system, but part of the job of a manager is to manage the squad he has. Find the best system or systems to suit the players. Work with the players to improve them and get them comfortable with their responsibilities.He needs to be given more time. However, I really don't want to hear the "didn't get the players he wanted" excuse. Probably every manager in the league can play that card if they want to.I'm hoping he's given 6 months or the entire season before anyone decides whether he has what is needed for us. Where he goes afterwards is irrelevant to me, it only matters what he achieves or don't achieve with us.0
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He didn't get the striker he needed, so he needs to try to find a compromise. Who, within the current squad, is fast, tricky, and can find the back of the net?
Only Rak Saki I'd say.
So adapt the system, get Rak Saki playing far closer to Stockley.
If we can start getting the best out of Stockley again, that in turn could alleviate a lot of pressure on the defence, who at the moment, know they mustn't concede, as we're unlikely to score too many.2 -
That's not true. He wasn't relegated with Bristol Rovers.killerandflash said:
I don't get why people think Garner is some sort of managerial superstar, that other clubs will be fighting over.SELR_addicks said:
Garner will be in the Championship soon. It's up to TS whether that is with us, or not.ElfsborgAddick said:
Are we getting relegated then?SELR_addicks said:Garner will be in a division above us soon.
He's not the problem.
Before joining us he'd been relegated with Bristol R and had a decent season in L2 but without promotion with Swindon, so unless WE do well this season, there's nothing in his track record to suggest a Championship club would be after him.
He was "relieved of his duties" on 14 November 2020 following a 4–1 home defeat to Fleetwood Town with Rovers in 18th position in League One.
Former MK Dons and Exeter City boss Paul Tisdale succeeded him before also being replaced in February by Joey Barton, who was the manager when Rovers were relegated.
Interesting fact ........ just a month before being sacked at Rovers, Garner was named Manager of the Week by the EFL and the Football League paper.
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Further, when people say Garner failed to get promotion with Swindon, it does seem they completely ignore the context.
When Garner became manager at Swindon just a couple of weeks before the season started, there was only a squad of 7 players!
I mean, the bloke performed miracles to get Swindon into the playoffs with a squad of freebies thrown together at the last minute.
And they only got knocked out of the playoffs because a Charlton player missed his penalty.
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They had very few players when he arrived, but had a full squad by the 7th August when the season started.Oggy Red said:Further, when people say Garner failed to get promotion with Swindon, it does seem they completely ignore the context.
When Garner became manager at Swindon just a couple of weeks before the season started, there was only a squad of 7 players!
I mean, the bloke performed miracles to get Swindon into the playoffs with a squad of freebies thrown together at the last minute.
And they only got knocked out of the playoffs because a Charlton player missed his penalty.
All teams in L2 operate with freebies, and Swindon had some very good ones, plus Jack Payne was still there. I bet Jonny Williams was on very good money for L2.
Of course he did well, but getting Swindon into the L2 playoffs isn't a miracle1 -
We tried that at Fleetwood and it didn’t work. Rak-Sakyi is not a striker and Stockley didn’t play any better with someone nearer him.queensland_addick said:He didn't get the striker he needed, so he needs to try to find a compromise. Who, within the current squad, is fast, tricky, and can find the back of the net?
Only Rak Saki I'd say.
So adapt the system, get Rak Saki playing far closer to Stockley.
If we can start getting the best out of Stockley again, that in turn could alleviate a lot of pressure on the defence, who at the moment, know they mustn't concede, as we're unlikely to score too many.The only solution I can see is to keep with the 4-3-3 but with Leaburn starting instead of Stockley, Kirk instead of CBT and Payne instead of Morgan. We keep seeing no end product costing us so why are we still persisting with 3 players that have repeatedly showed they don’t have consistent end product. Payne, Kirk and Leaburn have shown much better final ball/finishing in their limited minutes so they should be starting. Garner can’t carry on moaning that we play alright but have no end product when he’s the man picking these players over players that have shown better end product.0 -
That sounds well worth a try. For all Kirk's apparent lethargy, he does at least put dangerous balls into the box.NabySarr said:
We tried that at Fleetwood and it didn’t work. Rak-Sakyi is not a striker and Stockley didn’t play any better with someone nearer him.queensland_addick said:He didn't get the striker he needed, so he needs to try to find a compromise. Who, within the current squad, is fast, tricky, and can find the back of the net?
Only Rak Saki I'd say.
So adapt the system, get Rak Saki playing far closer to Stockley.
If we can start getting the best out of Stockley again, that in turn could alleviate a lot of pressure on the defence, who at the moment, know they mustn't concede, as we're unlikely to score too many.The only solution I can see is to keep with the 4-3-3 but with Leaburn starting instead of Stockley, Kirk instead of CBT and Payne instead of Morgan. We keep seeing no end product costing us so why are we still persisting with 3 players that have repeatedly showed they don’t have consistent end product. Payne, Kirk and Leaburn have shown much better final ball/finishing in their limited minutes so they should be starting. Garner can’t carry on moaning that we play alright but have no end product when he’s the man picking these players over players that have shown better end product.
Stockley probably needs a rest as can't fault him for effort. He might actually get more success coming off the bench.0 -
Yeah, it's easy to sign 15 players in a fortnight and put a winning team together.killerandflash said:
They had very few players when he arrived, but had a full squad by the 7th August when the season started.Oggy Red said:Further, when people say Garner failed to get promotion with Swindon, it does seem they completely ignore the context.
When Garner became manager at Swindon just a couple of weeks before the season started, there was only a squad of 7 players!
I mean, the bloke performed miracles to get Swindon into the playoffs with a squad of freebies thrown together at the last minute.
And they only got knocked out of the playoffs because a Charlton player missed his penalty.
All teams in L2 operate with freebies, and Swindon had some very good ones, plus Jack Payne was still there. I bet Jonny Williams was on very good money for L2.
Of course he did well, but getting Swindon into the L2 playoffs isn't a miracle
Swindon did sign some good freebies ..... but they were freebies for a reason, still unsigned by other clubs almost until/or just after the season had already started. Those players missed a lot, if not almost all of pre-season.
Though that begs the question: someone turned a ragbag collection of other clubs' rejects into a team that qualified for the playoffs and missed automatic promotion by only 3 points. And scored the most goals and played the most attractive football of any team in that division.
We both agree then that Garner did well.
I suppose a miracle is like Jesus turning water into wine. You're right that Garner didn't quite do that.
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I stand by my opinion that Garner is a good manager & tries to play good football, but he doesn't have the players to play the way he wants.
Right now it's about getting results. He needs to find a system that suits the player's he's got, not the players he wants.10 -
...and TS isn't willing to fund the players he wants. So what happens if we are still hovering around 16th place in another months time? Garner says he needs 2 or 3 transfer windows, will he be here that long if we are struggling?Gravesend_Addick said:I stand by my opinion that Garner is a good manager & tries to play good football, but he doesn't have the players to play the way he wants.
Right now it's about getting results. He needs to find a system that suits the player's he's got, not the players he wants.0 -
That's not true though, as most players would have had a pre-season somewhere, in the way we sometimes allow ex players to train with us in the summer, even if we aren't going to sign them. Or had been on trial with Swindon during pre-seasonOggy Red said:
Yeah, it's easy to sign 15 players in a fortnight and put a winning team together.killerandflash said:
They had very few players when he arrived, but had a full squad by the 7th August when the season started.Oggy Red said:Further, when people say Garner failed to get promotion with Swindon, it does seem they completely ignore the context.
When Garner became manager at Swindon just a couple of weeks before the season started, there was only a squad of 7 players!
I mean, the bloke performed miracles to get Swindon into the playoffs with a squad of freebies thrown together at the last minute.
And they only got knocked out of the playoffs because a Charlton player missed his penalty.
All teams in L2 operate with freebies, and Swindon had some very good ones, plus Jack Payne was still there. I bet Jonny Williams was on very good money for L2.
Of course he did well, but getting Swindon into the L2 playoffs isn't a miracle
Swindon did sign some good freebies ..... but they were freebies for a reason, still unsigned by other clubs almost until/or just after the season had already started. Those players missed a lot, if not almost all of pre-season.
Though that begs the question: someone turned a ragbag collection of other clubs' rejects into a team that qualified for the playoffs and missed automatic promotion by only 3 points. And scored the most goals and played the most attractive football of any team in that division.
We both agree then that Garner did well.
I suppose a miracle is like Jesus turning water into wine. You're right that Garner didn't quite do that.
And if the issues was signing players later and integrating them, you'd expecting Swindon to have started slowly and improved as the season went on, whereas they started well and maintained a steady position all season.0 -
Not sure where to put this but have I missed something.
https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/football/portsmouth-fc/the-much-maligned-ex-portsmouth-skipper-and-arsenal-man-whos-finding-it-tough-reviving-fallen-charlton-3881199
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Is this a 'guess who we're referring to' sort of challenge? Is Chorley tonight's ref?0
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Has never been and will never be the problem.
Look elsewhere to point fingers and be glad we've got him for the time being.9 -
Ben Garner:Gravesend_Addick said:I stand by my opinion that Garner is a good manager & tries to play good football, but he doesn't have the players to play the way he wants.
Right now it's about getting results. He needs to find a system that suits the player's he's got, not the players he wants.
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He’s impressed me since day one. TS needs to back him.11
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Just saw on Amazon Prime BG at Palace match tonight. Hopefully was at the club scouting for more loan players.1
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Yeah I thought that was himArthur_Trudgill said:Just saw on Amazon Prime BG at Palace match tonight. Hopefully was at the club scouting for more loan players.0
