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Can anyone identify these cars?

2

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  • MrOneLung
    MrOneLung Posts: 26,849
    was it a myth that the allegro was more aerodynamic in reverse ?
  • DaveMehmet
    DaveMehmet Posts: 21,596
    MrOneLung said:
    was it a myth that the allegro was more aerodynamic in reverse ?
    I believe they were but they weren't the only ones. 
  • SoundAsa£
    SoundAsa£ Posts: 22,477
    CL never ceases to amaze me…..that there would be a couple of guys who came up with the answers (in double quick time as well), as to what these two badly wrecked old vehicles are is pretty bizarre and (to me at least), almost unbelievable.
    Well done is all I can say.👏
  • thai malaysia addick
    thai malaysia addick Posts: 18,333
    SoundAsa£ said:
    CL never ceases to amaze me…..that there would be a couple of guys who came up with the answers (in double quick time as well), as to what these two badly wrecked old vehicles are is pretty bizarre and (to me at least), almost unbelievable.
    Well done is all I can say.👏
    The thread was prompted by a pal in Thailand. He knows a fair bit about cars and has used software that recognises cars, but had no luck. I find it amazing that the problem was solved so quickly.
  • DaveMehmet
    DaveMehmet Posts: 21,596
    thai malaysia addick said:
    SoundAsa£ said:
    CL never ceases to amaze me…..that there would be a couple of guys who came up with the answers (in double quick time as well), as to what these two badly wrecked old vehicles are is pretty bizarre and (to me at least), almost unbelievable.
    Well done is all I can say.👏
    The thread was prompted by a pal in Thailand. He knows a fair bit about cars and has used software that recognises cars, but had no luck. I find it amazing that the problem was solved so quickly.
    I better not let my daughter see this thread, she already calls me a car nerd and takes the piss whenever I go to car shows/events. If we’re ever out in my car together and people stop and ask me about it, I can’t look at her face as I know she’s smiling and can’t wait until they go before she can start ribbing me.
  • Raith_C_Chattonell
    Raith_C_Chattonell Posts: 5,677
    MrOneLung said:
    was it a myth that the allegro was more aerodynamic in reverse ?
    I had the very great misfortune to own an All aggro. 

    I can't explain why I purchased it - other than monetary constraints that existed in my budget at the time - nothing made sense. 

    I hated it as I drove it out of the car showroom - and that feeling only grew with each and every lumpy, horrible journey of uncertainty and horror.  

    My next car was a Peugeot 305 and by comparison it felt like I'd won the pools and was driving a Roller.
  • Hal1x
    Hal1x Posts: 4,265
    edited April 2023
    Back in my car sales day I had a customer who made possibly the worst car decision ever! He chopped in his beautiful red Alfasud for our used lime green Allegro Sport.

    ie from this

    To this (the bloke on the left is contemplating shooting it) !

    We tried to warn him, but he was a wealthy retired military gent who's hobby was cars. After a few months he would get bored, and then part exchange them for something else.

    Within a WEEK! however, he was back. Said he should have listened to us. Sold us the Allegro back and bought our Dolomite Sprint (in brown!).

    That Alfasud was absolutely superb by the way.
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    edited April 2023
    The Alfa Sud was a drivers car. My Uncle had one. The Dolomite Sprint was a great car too. Neither looked great cars on the surface. To me anyway.
  • KingKinsella
    KingKinsella Posts: 1,310
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    Correct and if you look at the details of how that design turned into the final Allegro, you will see what was wrong with the British car industry. They decided to make it dumpier to fit the engine and gearbox and they decided not to give it a hatch back because it may have taken sales away from the Austin 1100 range. That and a that will do attitude to quality control.Harris Mann was a great designer and the Princess had many innovations seen in more modern cars.
    I owned an Allegro."Square" driving wheel. Standard of components and construction appalling. I paid a fortune on repairs including a new gear box.
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    DaveMehmet said:
    MrOneLung said:
    was it a myth that the allegro was more aerodynamic in reverse ?
    I believe they were but they weren't the only ones. 
    Yes, it applies to most cars with a radiatior grill at the front.
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  • Hal1x
    Hal1x Posts: 4,265
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    Correct and if you look at the details of how that design turned into the final Allegro, you will see what was wrong with the British car industry. They decided to make it dumpier to fit the engine and gearbox and they decided not to give it a hatch back because it may have taken sales away from the Austin 1100 range. That and a that will do attitude to quality control.Harris Mann was a great designer and the Princess had many innovations seen in more modern cars.
    Another example is when the built the Morris Minor they thought there wasn't enough interior width so they decided to widen the car by:-


    Inserting a strip along the middle of the bonnet rather than make a new wider one!
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,844
    The Alfasud was a great car, but rusted away very quickly
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,443
    killerandflash said:
    The Alfasud was a great car, but rusted away very quickly
    Loved the Alfasud - will buy an old Alfa or Lancia if I win the lottery.
  • Hal1x
    Hal1x Posts: 4,265
    edited April 2023
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    killerandflash said:
    The Alfasud was a great car, but rusted away very quickly
    Loved the Alfasud - will buy an old Alfa or Lancia if I win the lottery.
    While at same dealership, Lancia Beta came in for its first MOT, was so rotten underneath car had to be scrapped, on Lancia scrappage scheme. 3 years old!. Russian dodgy steel.

    I also liked the Alfa GTV 3.0. It was so fast, scared the life out of me on the A2 going to Maidstone, but that also was rusting away when very young. There cant be many around now. Must be a constant battle with rust.
  • Hal1x
    Hal1x Posts: 4,265
    edited April 2023
    killerandflash said:
    The Alfasud was a great car, but rusted away very quickly
    Compared with the other small cars around at the time Marina, Escort, R5, Viva, Allegro it was totally different class to drive. Saw the episode on WheelerDealers where they bought one and was very envious.
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    They definitely skimped on the quality of the metal as did Lancia.
  • cafcfan
    cafcfan Posts: 11,198
    Hal1x said:
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    killerandflash said:
    The Alfasud was a great car, but rusted away very quickly
    Loved the Alfasud - will buy an old Alfa or Lancia if I win the lottery.
    While at same dealership, Lancia Beta came in for its first MOT, was so rotten underneath car had to be scrapped, on Lancia scrappage scheme. 3 years old!. Russian dodgy steel.

    I also liked the Alfa GTV 3.0. It was so fast, scared the life out of me on the A2 going to Maidstone, but that also was rusting away when very young. There cant be many around now. Must be a constant battle with rust.
    I can tell you. There are 1,207 GTVs left in the UK with an MOT. (There might be more that are SORN'd).  By comparison there are only 91 Alfasuds, 82 Lancia Betas (don't know if that includes the model I had - the Beta Coupe.)

    But what is staggering is that of the 3.5mn Ford Sierras that were produced, there are only 2,752 still on UK roads. So, by comparison, the much loved but quite rare Alfa GTV is doing rather well.
  • stockportaddick
    stockportaddick Posts: 1,132
    The Alfasud while being a decent drive was an absolute rust bucket, as others have said.

    A younger work colleague, to fulfill his dream, burst his bank to buy a 6 month old one and the first day he brought it in we could see the rust lurking beneath the paintwork. After a year it was falling apart, he cut his (large) losses and sold up as he had already been warned it had no chance of passing it's first MOT when it became due. From then on, he always called them 'Alphasheds' 
  • Hal1x
    Hal1x Posts: 4,265
    cafcfan said:
    Hal1x said:
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    killerandflash said:
    The Alfasud was a great car, but rusted away very quickly
    Loved the Alfasud - will buy an old Alfa or Lancia if I win the lottery.
    While at same dealership, Lancia Beta came in for its first MOT, was so rotten underneath car had to be scrapped, on Lancia scrappage scheme. 3 years old!. Russian dodgy steel.

    I also liked the Alfa GTV 3.0. It was so fast, scared the life out of me on the A2 going to Maidstone, but that also was rusting away when very young. There cant be many around now. Must be a constant battle with rust.
    I can tell you. There are 1,207 GTVs left in the UK with an MOT. (There might be more that are SORN'd).  By comparison there are only 91 Alfasuds, 82 Lancia Betas (don't know if that includes the model I had - the Beta Coupe.)

    But what is staggering is that of the 3.5mn Ford Sierras that were produced, there are only 2,752 still on UK roads. So, by comparison, the much loved but quite rare Alfa GTV is doing rather well.
    Do those GTV numbers include the later 90's, or just the 70's cars? I would guess they would be mostly nineties cars.
  • cafcfan
    cafcfan Posts: 11,198
    Hal1x said:
    cafcfan said:
    Hal1x said:
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    killerandflash said:
    The Alfasud was a great car, but rusted away very quickly
    Loved the Alfasud - will buy an old Alfa or Lancia if I win the lottery.
    While at same dealership, Lancia Beta came in for its first MOT, was so rotten underneath car had to be scrapped, on Lancia scrappage scheme. 3 years old!. Russian dodgy steel.

    I also liked the Alfa GTV 3.0. It was so fast, scared the life out of me on the A2 going to Maidstone, but that also was rusting away when very young. There cant be many around now. Must be a constant battle with rust.
    I can tell you. There are 1,207 GTVs left in the UK with an MOT. (There might be more that are SORN'd).  By comparison there are only 91 Alfasuds, 82 Lancia Betas (don't know if that includes the model I had - the Beta Coupe.)

    But what is staggering is that of the 3.5mn Ford Sierras that were produced, there are only 2,752 still on UK roads. So, by comparison, the much loved but quite rare Alfa GTV is doing rather well.
    Do those GTV numbers include the later 90's, or just the 70's cars? I would guess they would be mostly nineties cars.
    Yes, you are right - they are all from the 90s/early 00s.

    The earlier car was, I think, called an Alfetta GTV. There are only 66 Alfettas.  Only one of them is listed as a GTV. It is shown as being first registered only 4 years ago! So my guess is that it is an personal import, possibly from South Africa. 

    There are clearly mistakes in the database but it's still a fascinating web site that lists this stuff.
     https://www.carlogbook.co.uk/
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  • Lordflashheart
    Lordflashheart Posts: 5,621
    DaveMehmet said:
    Lordflashheart said:
    DaveMehmet said:
    Lordflashheart said:
    A few days ago I stumbled across a car on the interweb that I had never seen before, which was a shock, because I am pretty good on cars

    Anyone know what this and what it was based on - I think it’s a cracker 


    It's a Unipower, don't think it's based on another car but used the BL A series engine.
    We have a winner - albeit I suspected you would be the one to get it @DaveMehmet - used a fair few BMC components, as well as the Cooper engines

    I think it’s a beauty - found the owners club website - decent one costs north of £75k these days 😳
    Are you going to the Masters at Brands Hatch on 27th/28th May this year mate? My car's been selected for the special display for the MG 100 anniversary. They've also got displays for the Triumph 100, 75 of Porsche & Lotus and Ford 120.
    I will be there mate - will seek you out 
  • DaveMehmet
    DaveMehmet Posts: 21,596
    Lordflashheart said:
    DaveMehmet said:
    Lordflashheart said:
    DaveMehmet said:
    Lordflashheart said:
    A few days ago I stumbled across a car on the interweb that I had never seen before, which was a shock, because I am pretty good on cars

    Anyone know what this and what it was based on - I think it’s a cracker 


    It's a Unipower, don't think it's based on another car but used the BL A series engine.
    We have a winner - albeit I suspected you would be the one to get it @DaveMehmet - used a fair few BMC components, as well as the Cooper engines

    I think it’s a beauty - found the owners club website - decent one costs north of £75k these days 😳
    Are you going to the Masters at Brands Hatch on 27th/28th May this year mate? My car's been selected for the special display for the MG 100 anniversary. They've also got displays for the Triumph 100, 75 of Porsche & Lotus and Ford 120.
    I will be there mate - will seek you out 
    Nice one, I’ll be there on the Sunday 
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,443
    edited April 2023
    Hal1x said:
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    killerandflash said:
    The Alfasud was a great car, but rusted away very quickly
    Loved the Alfasud - will buy an old Alfa or Lancia if I win the lottery.
    While at same dealership, Lancia Beta came in for its first MOT, was so rotten underneath car had to be scrapped, on Lancia scrappage scheme. 3 years old!. Russian dodgy steel.

    I also liked the Alfa GTV 3.0. It was so fast, scared the life out of me on the A2 going to Maidstone, but that also was rusting away when very young. There cant be many around now. Must be a constant battle with rust.
    Nothing to do with Russian steel - that's a myth. The rustproofing was the main issue.
  • DaveMehmet
    DaveMehmet Posts: 21,596
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    Hal1x said:
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    killerandflash said:
    The Alfasud was a great car, but rusted away very quickly
    Loved the Alfasud - will buy an old Alfa or Lancia if I win the lottery.
    While at same dealership, Lancia Beta came in for its first MOT, was so rotten underneath car had to be scrapped, on Lancia scrappage scheme. 3 years old!. Russian dodgy steel.

    I also liked the Alfa GTV 3.0. It was so fast, scared the life out of me on the A2 going to Maidstone, but that also was rusting away when very young. There cant be many around now. Must be a constant battle with rust.
    Nothing to do with Russian steel - that's a myth. The rustproofing was the main issue.
    Or lack of. To be fair, a lot of cars in the 70’s suffered the same fate. My old man bought a 4 year old Hillman Avenger in ‘78 that needed welding and a full respray not long after he bought it. 

    The general advice when buying classic cars now is to check the bodywork more than anything else. Unless it’s rare/exotic, mechanical issues can be put right fairly easily, most restoration costs involve bodywork issues.
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,443
    DaveMehmet said:
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    Hal1x said:
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    killerandflash said:
    The Alfasud was a great car, but rusted away very quickly
    Loved the Alfasud - will buy an old Alfa or Lancia if I win the lottery.
    While at same dealership, Lancia Beta came in for its first MOT, was so rotten underneath car had to be scrapped, on Lancia scrappage scheme. 3 years old!. Russian dodgy steel.

    I also liked the Alfa GTV 3.0. It was so fast, scared the life out of me on the A2 going to Maidstone, but that also was rusting away when very young. There cant be many around now. Must be a constant battle with rust.
    Nothing to do with Russian steel - that's a myth. The rustproofing was the main issue.
    Or lack of. To be fair, a lot of cars in the 70’s suffered the same fate. My old man bought a 4 year old Hillman Avenger in ‘78 that needed welding and a full respray not long after he bought it. 

    The general advice when buying classic cars now is to check the bodywork more than anything else. Unless it’s rare/exotic, mechanical issues can be put right fairly easily, most restoration costs involve bodywork issues.
    There were loads of rusty cars in the 70s - Lancia were certainly not alone. The Beta fiasco finished them in the UK.

    Nearly bought a LHD Integrale in the 90s - ultimately didn't fancy the maintenance costs. Would love to own a Fulvia.
  • DaveMehmet
    DaveMehmet Posts: 21,596
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    DaveMehmet said:
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    Hal1x said:
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    killerandflash said:
    The Alfasud was a great car, but rusted away very quickly
    Loved the Alfasud - will buy an old Alfa or Lancia if I win the lottery.
    While at same dealership, Lancia Beta came in for its first MOT, was so rotten underneath car had to be scrapped, on Lancia scrappage scheme. 3 years old!. Russian dodgy steel.

    I also liked the Alfa GTV 3.0. It was so fast, scared the life out of me on the A2 going to Maidstone, but that also was rusting away when very young. There cant be many around now. Must be a constant battle with rust.
    Nothing to do with Russian steel - that's a myth. The rustproofing was the main issue.
    Or lack of. To be fair, a lot of cars in the 70’s suffered the same fate. My old man bought a 4 year old Hillman Avenger in ‘78 that needed welding and a full respray not long after he bought it. 

    The general advice when buying classic cars now is to check the bodywork more than anything else. Unless it’s rare/exotic, mechanical issues can be put right fairly easily, most restoration costs involve bodywork issues.
    There were loads of rusty cars in the 70s - Lancia were certainly not alone. The Beta fiasco finished them in the UK.

    Nearly bought a LHD Integrale in the 90s - ultimately didn't fancy the maintenance costs. Would love to own a Fulvia.
    They made some cracking cars. Even the 8 valve Integrales are worth a lot of money now. Pity you didn’t have a crystal ball, you could have bought and mothballed one.
  • Rob
    Rob Posts: 11,786
    When I lived in Milan I drove around a Fulvia. Lovely car. 
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,728
    My uncle had a Fulvia too.
  • valleynick66
    valleynick66 Posts: 4,889
    bobmunro said:
    Lordflashheart said:
    A few days ago I stumbled across a car on the interweb that I had never seen before, which was a shock, because I am pretty good on cars

    Anyone know what this and what it was based on - I think it’s a cracker 


    I don’t recognise it but would guess it’s a kit car.
    Nah. 

    This is a Kitt car 😉😆



  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,144
    Well I had a top of range Austin Princess  from the car pool at United Biscuits for a few weeks. I loved it. It had auto gearbox, plush seats like  well padded armchairs from a rich old bloke’s study, and - wonder of wonders - an electric sunroof. I definitely wasn’t the target audience, or of course the management level, and owning one would I’m sure have been a financial black hole, but just the mention of it brings back many happy memories.  

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