Electric Cars

With the EV market being so immature, and charging infrastructure struggling to keep up (obviously will improve in the future), I think hybrid is definitely the way to go at the moment.

Imagine spending 40/50/60+ thousand on an EV only for Toulyota, or anybody else, to release their market changing new battery tech, this decimating the resale value of your expensive new car that you're tied in a finance and final payemnt deal for the foreseeable future.

Two electric cars in the family a Fiat 500e and a BMW IX. The Fiat is perfect for whizzing around town and has more than enough range for the odd journey into deepest Surrey (and back). The BMW is the ugliest car I've ever owned (from the front) but the comfiest I've ever sat in and driven around in. We got it because we'd had three Range Rovers stolen - the last one, a plug in hybrid Sport got stolen twice in the same week. It seems so far the thieves aren't as interested in all electric SUVs round here.

Long term trips to pick up the oldest to and from university were a pain at first as the charging infrastructure on the motorways is inadequate and often broken. I've now found two reliable stops that allow me to do it with only one charge. 

One of the major plus sides to EVs in Richmond is that with an EV the parking is free for the entire maximum time allowance at any public parking space.

If it wasn't for the car thefts I'd rather be in the new Rangie Sport hybrid though. That has a much longer all electric range now (almost double my last one). Then I could do all my local driving as EV only and not be faced with terror at previously uncharted long range trips. Trips abroad wouldn't require so much planning either. 

Sorry for the long post but it seems folk on this thread are genuinely interested in other's opinions / experiences.

RichmondSE10Exile said:

Two electric cars in the family a Fiat 500e and a BMW IX. The Fiat is perfect for whizzing around town and has more than enough range for the odd journey into deepest Surrey (and back). The BMW is the ugliest car I've ever owned (from the front) but the comfiest I've ever sat in and driven around in. We got it because we'd had three Range Rovers stolen - the last one, a plug in hybrid Sport got stolen twice in the same week. It seems so far the thieves aren't as interested in all electric SUVs round here.

Long term trips to pick up the oldest to and from university were a pain at first as the charging infrastructure on the motorways is inadequate and often broken. I've now found two reliable stops that allow me to do it with only one charge. 

One of the major plus sides to EVs in Richmond is that with an EV the parking is free for the entire maximum time allowance at any public parking space.

If it wasn't for the car thefts I'd rather be in the new Rangie Sport hybrid though. That has a much longer all electric range now (almost double my last one). Then I could do all my local driving as EV only and not be faced with terror at previously uncharted long range trips. Trips abroad wouldn't require so much planning either. 

Sorry for the long post but it seems folk on this thread are genuinely interested in other's opinions / experiences.

For now - give it time 

Same for the cost of charging. The tax revenue that will be lost on petrol/diesel will ultimately be loaded somewhere else.

Its the right direction of travel but the maths will change over time.

Rothko said:

We've been full electric for about 18 months, honestly it's been fine, no hassle with charging even without a home charger, done a few long distance runs and it's been great. Probably going to get another EV soon, either an MG4 or MG ZS, and I think we're full converted

how does that work without a home charger?, don't most charge them on their driveway overnight?

Elthamaddick said:

Rothko said:

We've been full electric for about 18 months, honestly it's been fine, no hassle with charging even without a home charger, done a few long distance runs and it's been great. Probably going to get another EV soon, either an MG4 or MG ZS, and I think we're full converted

how does that work without a home charger?, don't most charge them on their driveway overnight?

We have a package that includes public charging, so I'll pop to the charger next to Costa, plug it in for an hour, do some work whilst having a coffee, and then drive it home. As most of the driving is school runs and local stuff, it does the job once a week 

PragueAddick said:

Its the longer motorway journeys that I wonder about. How do you plan when you dont know if a point will be free or functioning when you arrive? What’s your plan B? And since you have to stay there for a period of time, what’s the environment like, if it’s not a standard service station? 

I have several apps now which are supposed to answer the questions but so far my experience is, they don’t do it very well.

Over Christmas I drove to Manchester, then to Liverpool and back in my full EV. Didn't really have an issue, probably took slightly longer (combination of driving more efficiently and slightly longer rest stops) but I found plenty of places to charge. To answer your question though it does take a bit more planning, but on the major routes there at least does seem to be plenty of options. In other parts of the country though it seems there are still black holes that need to be fixed quickly.

Redrobo said:

DaveMehmet said:

Redrobo said:

cafcfan said:

Danepak said:

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/04/toyota-claims-battery-breakthrough-electric-cars

745 miles distance on a single charge.
And that charge would take less than 10 mins.

If Toyota's claims come to fruition by 2027, as they suggest, it will make all current electric cars obsolete overnight.  Nothing could compete with a 10 minute charge, half the weight, half the cost and twice the range.  Tesla could find itself being about as useful as a Sinclair C5:   doing the automotive equivalent of betamax or plasma TVs.

Will synthetic fuel be available by then, and at a sensible price?

No need to change cars and keep the garage network. Greener than batteries.

There's a company based at the Bicester Heritage Centre that have just started selling fully synthetic fuel. It's been developed primarily for use in classic cars.

Downsides are, it's only available at that one place and starts at £3.80 per litre. 

It's a start though

Ouch!

That price has to plummet and I suspect it will. 

It surely has to be the way forward and is greener than electric.

I read an article the other day that claimed NOx levels at exhaust are similar to petrol/diesel.

Charging points are going to be a real issue. At present when EV’s are still relatively uncommon it’s not so bad with the number of public charging points currently available and home charging. What happens with streets of terraced houses with no drive and a pavement between the house and the kerb. What if you can’t park it outside your own house ? What about blocks of flats ? What about the inadequacies of the national grid supply ? For me there are far too many hurdles for it to fully work with the present technology.

colthe3rd said:

PragueAddick said:

Its the longer motorway journeys that I wonder about. How do you plan when you dont know if a point will be free or functioning when you arrive? What’s your plan B? And since you have to stay there for a period of time, what’s the environment like, if it’s not a standard service station? 

I have several apps now which are supposed to answer the questions but so far my experience is, they don’t do it very well.

Over Christmas I drove to Manchester, then to Liverpool and back in my full EV. Didn't really have an issue, probably took slightly longer (combination of driving more efficiently and slightly longer rest stops) but I found plenty of places to charge. To answer your question though it does take a bit more planning, but on the major routes there at least does seem to be plenty of options. In other parts of the country though it seems there are still black holes that need to be fixed quickly.

Doesn’t help that on our last long trip to Devon, a lot of the motorway service stations only had two or three charging bays. So whilst it was only 30-40 minutes to charge up, we had to wait an hour just to get a slot. 

MrOneLung said:

colthe3rd said:

PragueAddick said:

Its the longer motorway journeys that I wonder about. How do you plan when you dont know if a point will be free or functioning when you arrive? What’s your plan B? And since you have to stay there for a period of time, what’s the environment like, if it’s not a standard service station? 

I have several apps now which are supposed to answer the questions but so far my experience is, they don’t do it very well.

Over Christmas I drove to Manchester, then to Liverpool and back in my full EV. Didn't really have an issue, probably took slightly longer (combination of driving more efficiently and slightly longer rest stops) but I found plenty of places to charge. To answer your question though it does take a bit more planning, but on the major routes there at least does seem to be plenty of options. In other parts of the country though it seems there are still black holes that need to be fixed quickly.

Doesn’t help that on our last long trip to Devon, a lot of the motorway service stations only had two or three charging bays. So whilst it was only 30-40 minutes to charge up, we had to wait an hour just to get a slot. 

Exactly. Now imagine if Google Maps factored in such downtime into its estimates of journey times. Who’d like to see that? I can think of one group of companies who would…

The train operators😂

Redrobo said:

DaveMehmet said:

Redrobo said:

cafcfan said:

Danepak said:

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/04/toyota-claims-battery-breakthrough-electric-cars

745 miles distance on a single charge.
And that charge would take less than 10 mins.

If Toyota's claims come to fruition by 2027, as they suggest, it will make all current electric cars obsolete overnight.  Nothing could compete with a 10 minute charge, half the weight, half the cost and twice the range.  Tesla could find itself being about as useful as a Sinclair C5:   doing the automotive equivalent of betamax or plasma TVs.

Will synthetic fuel be available by then, and at a sensible price?

No need to change cars and keep the garage network. Greener than batteries.

There's a company based at the Bicester Heritage Centre that have just started selling fully synthetic fuel. It's been developed primarily for use in classic cars.

Downsides are, it's only available at that one place and starts at £3.80 per litre. 

It's a start though

Ouch!

That price has to plummet and I suspect it will. 

It surely has to be the way forward and is greener than electric.

I know very little about synthetic petrol, so I looked it up. On the face of it, it looks much greener than normal petrol. It requires electricity to produce the hydrogen; I couldn’t find anywhere that compared with the electricity to power an electric vehicle but I suspect it is less. 

colthe3rd said:

MrOneLung said:

colthe3rd said:

PragueAddick said:

Its the longer motorway journeys that I wonder about. How do you plan when you dont know if a point will be free or functioning when you arrive? What’s your plan B? And since you have to stay there for a period of time, what’s the environment like, if it’s not a standard service station? 

I have several apps now which are supposed to answer the questions but so far my experience is, they don’t do it very well.

Over Christmas I drove to Manchester, then to Liverpool and back in my full EV. Didn't really have an issue, probably took slightly longer (combination of driving more efficiently and slightly longer rest stops) but I found plenty of places to charge. To answer your question though it does take a bit more planning, but on the major routes there at least does seem to be plenty of options. In other parts of the country though it seems there are still black holes that need to be fixed quickly.

Doesn’t help that on our last long trip to Devon, a lot of the motorway service stations only had two or three charging bays. So whilst it was only 30-40 minutes to charge up, we had to wait an hour just to get a slot. 

Yeah the south west does seem to be one of those areas lacking at the moment. I'm not a blinkered ev evangelist, there are without doubts issues with them, however most of those issues can be overcome with proper investment if governments and corporations are serious about reducing air polluting vehicles, it's a huge if though.

cloud cuckoo land - sadly

Hex said:

PragueAddick said:

MrOneLung said:

colthe3rd said:

PragueAddick said:

Its the longer motorway journeys that I wonder about. How do you plan when you dont know if a point will be free or functioning when you arrive? What’s your plan B? And since you have to stay there for a period of time, what’s the environment like, if it’s not a standard service station? 

I have several apps now which are supposed to answer the questions but so far my experience is, they don’t do it very well.

Over Christmas I drove to Manchester, then to Liverpool and back in my full EV. Didn't really have an issue, probably took slightly longer (combination of driving more efficiently and slightly longer rest stops) but I found plenty of places to charge. To answer your question though it does take a bit more planning, but on the major routes there at least does seem to be plenty of options. In other parts of the country though it seems there are still black holes that need to be fixed quickly.

Doesn’t help that on our last long trip to Devon, a lot of the motorway service stations only had two or three charging bays. So whilst it was only 30-40 minutes to charge up, we had to wait an hour just to get a slot. 

Exactly. Now imagine if Google Maps factored in such downtime into its estimates of journey times. Who’d like to see that? I can think of one group of companies who would…

The train operators😂

I don't know but would doubt Google "estimates" journey times in the sense you probably mean it.  I am sure its journey times are based on actual journeys along your specified route and will automatically include stops for refuelling made by the cars (phones) it tracks.  You are able to specify your fuel type for Google to suggest more fuel-efficient routes so providing sufficient EVs have made your journey it is already being calculated by the great god Google. 

I don’t know either, but I doubt your version too. How would it know the reason for stopping is just to refuel? And how, in the case of cars with fuel tanks, does it know whether you need a stop at all? My previous car could do the run I’m talking about on one tank, so provided I fuelled up beforehand, no fuel stops. The new one, we had to stop twice. ( second one might not have been necessary if I could have used that charge point.

Don’t get me wrong, I would love this EV thing to work (so long as they sort out the disposal of batteries issue) but I see a lot of wishful thinking  going on here both at government level and among users. And that isn’t healthy, especially while EVs are too expensive for exactly the kind of people who most need a car to carry out good work (e.g. nurses priced out of property in London).

When I plan our european driving holidays abroad, I try to do a max of 3.5 hrs a day and google is a great way to plan it.

ShootersHillGuru said:

Modern satnavs that would surely be standard in all EV’s are able to calculate journeys in real time, based on distance, speed, route and traffic conditions. That’s far more useful than a google prediction taking into account a stop for charging, refilling, a mars bar or a piss. Quite frankly until an EV can provide me with a charge to get me from Leeds to London return I really can’t be doing with it. Certainly not at the price wanted for a car large enough for my needs and spec I want.

The satnav will still be using a network as I described.  One of the EVs I test drove told me an out-of-date speed limit for a road in Greenwich (a black mark from me).  I am confident Google's network and calculations will be better than those of a satnav unless, of course, you are purchasing an EV like me that uses Google for its navigation !