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ULEZ Checker

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  • SporadicAddick
    SporadicAddick Posts: 6,857
    Rothko said:
    ‘Take a look at this piece in the Telegraph’ and at this point I checked out 
    Do emails released under FOI have less validity depending on where they are published?
  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380
    I know the air has improved a lot where I live over the 20 years we’ve lived here. We’re not far from the south circ. One of my sons has asthma, and that has improved. General lowering of car emissions during that time has helped, and ULEZ continued that process. But something did need to be done, it’s easy to forget how bad it was. 
    On our holiday to Santorini I was reminded of what London of that. Found the fumes (and heat) in built up areas difficult to cope with. 
    Some of the vitriol aimed at Khan is OTT. He’s not an evil man trying to enrich himself (there are enough of those around) and he seems sincere in what he’s doing, to me at least. Met him a few times through work and he seemed alright. Not particularly charismatic, quite ordinary really, and no massive ego as far as I could see. But he does seem eltonengender real hatred from some. Take a peek at the replies to any of his tweets and it’s quite scary. He gets a lot of death threats apparently. 
    I haven’t followed this very closely, but ULEZ was a policy supported, if not instigated, by Boris Johnson wasn’t it? I suspect if he’d remained Mayor he would have had plenty of funding from central government to follow it through. 
    Politics is a dirty business, and it’s not in the Tories interests for Khan to be a success, so they’ll do everything they can to make things difficult for him (like reducing funding), aided and supported of course by papers like the Telegraph and the Daily Mail.
    20 mph is more than fast enough in the residential streets around where I live. That’s nothing to do with Khan of course. Some of the bigger roads it’s hard to stick to the limit, but having just completed a speed awareness course (caught out in Nottingham on a dual carriageway) I have to. One tip they gave us on the course was to use cruise control if you have it. It’s supposed to help you get more mpg as well. 👍
    But I think if there’s more evidence that 30mph on bigger roads really does reduce emissions, then maybe there’ll be changes. 
  • JohnnyH2
    JohnnyH2 Posts: 5,342
    JamesSeed said:
    I know the air has improved a lot where I live over the 20 years we’ve lived here. We’re not far from the south circ. One of my sons has asthma, and that has improved. General lowering of car emissions during that time has helped, and ULEZ continued that process. But something did need to be done, it’s easy to forget how bad it was. 
    On our holiday to Santorini I was reminded of what London of that. Found the fumes (and heat) in built up areas difficult to cope with. 
    Some of the vitriol aimed at Khan is OTT. He’s not an evil man trying to enrich himself (there are enough of those around) and he seems sincere in what he’s doing, to me at least. Met him a few times through work and he seemed alright. Not particularly charismatic, quite ordinary really, and no massive ego as far as I could see. But he does seem eltonengender real hatred from some. Take a peek at the replies to any of his tweets and it’s quite scary. He gets a lot of death threats apparently. 
    I haven’t followed this very closely, but ULEZ was a policy supported, if not instigated, by Boris Johnson wasn’t it? I suspect if he’d remained Mayor he would have had plenty of funding from central government to follow it through. 
    Politics is a dirty business, and it’s not in the Tories interests for Khan to be a success, so they’ll do everything they can to make things difficult for him (like reducing funding), aided and supported of course by papers like the Telegraph and the Daily Mail.
    20 mph is more than fast enough in the residential streets around where I live. That’s nothing to do with Khan of course. Some of the bigger roads it’s hard to stick to the limit, but having just completed a speed awareness course (caught out in Nottingham on a dual carriageway) I have to. One tip they gave us on the course was to use cruise control if you have it. It’s supposed to help you get more mpg as well. 👍
    But I think if there’s more evidence that 30mph on bigger roads really does reduce emissions, then maybe there’ll be changes. 
    Khan is the Mayor representing the economically poorest people in our society. His plan is to punish these people specifically in a cost of living crisis.

    That he is why he get the 'vitriol'
  • Rothko
    Rothko Posts: 18,807
    edited August 2023
    JohnnyH2 said:
    JamesSeed said:
    I know the air has improved a lot where I live over the 20 years we’ve lived here. We’re not far from the south circ. One of my sons has asthma, and that has improved. General lowering of car emissions during that time has helped, and ULEZ continued that process. But something did need to be done, it’s easy to forget how bad it was. 
    On our holiday to Santorini I was reminded of what London of that. Found the fumes (and heat) in built up areas difficult to cope with. 
    Some of the vitriol aimed at Khan is OTT. He’s not an evil man trying to enrich himself (there are enough of those around) and he seems sincere in what he’s doing, to me at least. Met him a few times through work and he seemed alright. Not particularly charismatic, quite ordinary really, and no massive ego as far as I could see. But he does seem eltonengender real hatred from some. Take a peek at the replies to any of his tweets and it’s quite scary. He gets a lot of death threats apparently. 
    I haven’t followed this very closely, but ULEZ was a policy supported, if not instigated, by Boris Johnson wasn’t it? I suspect if he’d remained Mayor he would have had plenty of funding from central government to follow it through. 
    Politics is a dirty business, and it’s not in the Tories interests for Khan to be a success, so they’ll do everything they can to make things difficult for him (like reducing funding), aided and supported of course by papers like the Telegraph and the Daily Mail.
    20 mph is more than fast enough in the residential streets around where I live. That’s nothing to do with Khan of course. Some of the bigger roads it’s hard to stick to the limit, but having just completed a speed awareness course (caught out in Nottingham on a dual carriageway) I have to. One tip they gave us on the course was to use cruise control if you have it. It’s supposed to help you get more mpg as well. 👍
    But I think if there’s more evidence that 30mph on bigger roads really does reduce emissions, then maybe there’ll be changes. 
    Khan is the Mayor representing the economically poorest people in our society. His plan is to punish these people specifically in a cost of living crisis.

    That he is why he get the 'vitriol'
    Vast majority of the poorest Londoners don’t drive, even less in the poorest groups, the poorest Londoners are more at risk from air pollution and its effects on health. 

    There’s a lot of noise from a few people
  • Fortune 82nd Minute
    Fortune 82nd Minute Posts: 8,338
    Rothko said:
    ‘Take a look at this piece in the Telegraph’ and at this point I checked out 
    That's sad . Does it have to be in the Guardian before you would read it?

    Sane story now being carried in the Times and Evening Standard if you care to read them.

    Khan and his officials have lied about the effects the ulez will have and have brought pressure on an organisation to silence another part of the same organisation which has done research that proves this. And you don't think that significant? 
  • Rothko
    Rothko Posts: 18,807
    edited August 2023
    Fortune 82nd Minute said:
    Rothko said:
    ‘Take a look at this piece in the Telegraph’ and at this point I checked out 
    That's sad . Does it have to be in the Guardian before you would read it?

    Sane story now being carried in the Times and Evening Standard if you care to read them.

    Khan and his officials have lied about the effects the ulez will have and have brought pressure on an organisation to silence another part of the same organisation which has done research that proves this. And you don't think that significant? 
    Two partial newspapers, and I don’t like the Guardian either.

    if you happily point me to the full FOI response, instead of the snipped version the Telegraph use to suit the story, then I’ll look. 

    Wish the Telegraph and does who are against ULEZ were honest, they don’t give a shit about public health and just don’t want to change 
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    Some people have always hated Khan and the ULEZ scheme is the current vehicle with which to hate him. Previously he was hated for decisions by local councils to have low traffic neighbourhoods, and he has been hated for knife crime because of decisions by central government to restrict police funding, he has been hated for criticising the visit(s) by vulva grabbing Trump.
    Of course nobody hates Sadiq Khan for coming from a Muslim background and not having a white skin, oh no it’s not that at all.
  • Redskin
    Redskin Posts: 3,113
    https://dailysceptic.org/2023/08/20/khan-tried-to-silence-scientists-who-questioned-ulez-claims-emails-show/
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,450
    seth plum said:
    Some people have always hated Khan and the ULEZ scheme is the current vehicle with which to hate him. Previously he was hated for decisions by local councils to have low traffic neighbourhoods, and he has been hated for knife crime because of decisions by central government to restrict police funding, he has been hated for criticising the visit(s) by vulva grabbing Trump.
    Of course nobody hates Sadiq Khan for coming from a Muslim background and not having a white skin, oh no it’s not that at all.
    I dislike Khan for being a mediocre politician who frequently spouts bollocks - being a Muslim has nothing to do with it.

    Lost any final respect for him after pushing through the Silvertown tunnel.
  • O-Randy-Hunt
    O-Randy-Hunt Posts: 10,654
    seth plum said:
    Some people have always hated Khan and the ULEZ scheme is the current vehicle with which to hate him. Previously he was hated for decisions by local councils to have low traffic neighbourhoods, and he has been hated for knife crime because of decisions by central government to restrict police funding, he has been hated for criticising the visit(s) by vulva grabbing Trump.
    Of course nobody hates Sadiq Khan for coming from a Muslim background and not having a white skin, oh no it’s not that at all.
    Classic race baiting that Khan would be so proud of if he could see it.

    Also ironic coming from someone that hates our current prime minister. I suppose you hate our prime minister for not being white ay Plum. Are you a little bit racist just like all those that don't like Khan?
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  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    seth plum said:
    Some people have always hated Khan and the ULEZ scheme is the current vehicle with which to hate him. Previously he was hated for decisions by local councils to have low traffic neighbourhoods, and he has been hated for knife crime because of decisions by central government to restrict police funding, he has been hated for criticising the visit(s) by vulva grabbing Trump.
    Of course nobody hates Sadiq Khan for coming from a Muslim background and not having a white skin, oh no it’s not that at all.
    I dislike Khan for being a mediocre politician who frequently spouts bollocks - being a Muslim has nothing to do with it.

    Lost any final respect for him after pushing through the Silvertown tunnel.
    I agree that to dislike Khan for the stupid proposal to introduce tolls on the Blackwall tunnel is not unreasonable.
    I notice that you intimate that at one point you had respect for him, why did you used to have any respect at all?
    Some people would assert that every single thing Khan says and does is bollocks. I don’t think it is everything myself.
    As I said above there is nobody on the planet that hates Sadiq Khan because he is not white skinned and comes from a Muslim background. 
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    Redskin said:
    https://dailysceptic.org/2023/08/20/khan-tried-to-silence-scientists-who-questioned-ulez-claims-emails-show/
    Misleading headline that puts the word ‘silence’ in inverted commas because that isn’t what happened and because that is not what the article says.
    The final paragraph from that article indicates that.
  • stop_shouting
    stop_shouting Posts: 3,680
    seth plum said:
    Some people have always hated Khan and the ULEZ scheme is the current vehicle with which to hate him. Previously he was hated for decisions by local councils to have low traffic neighbourhoods, and he has been hated for knife crime because of decisions by central government to restrict police funding, he has been hated for criticising the visit(s) by vulva grabbing Trump.
    Of course nobody hates Sadiq Khan for coming from a Muslim background and not having a white skin, oh no it’s not that at all.
    Khan is a race grifter. The end.
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    What is a race grifter?
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,450
    seth plum said:
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    seth plum said:
    Some people have always hated Khan and the ULEZ scheme is the current vehicle with which to hate him. Previously he was hated for decisions by local councils to have low traffic neighbourhoods, and he has been hated for knife crime because of decisions by central government to restrict police funding, he has been hated for criticising the visit(s) by vulva grabbing Trump.
    Of course nobody hates Sadiq Khan for coming from a Muslim background and not having a white skin, oh no it’s not that at all.
    I dislike Khan for being a mediocre politician who frequently spouts bollocks - being a Muslim has nothing to do with it.

    Lost any final respect for him after pushing through the Silvertown tunnel.
    I agree that to dislike Khan for the stupid proposal to introduce tolls on the Blackwall tunnel is not unreasonable.
    I notice that you intimate that at one point you had respect for him, why did you used to have any respect at all?
    Some people would assert that every single thing Khan says and does is bollocks. I don’t think it is everything myself.
    As I said above there is nobody on the planet that hates Sadiq Khan because he is not white skinned and comes from a Muslim background. 
    I think he's a pretty dreadful politician but he's less bad as a mayor than Boris Johnson. I find him embarrassing to listen to and poor at debating.

    Nothing stands out about him other than not being Boris Johnson.

  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    O-Randy-Hunt said:
    seth plum said:
    Some people have always hated Khan and the ULEZ scheme is the current vehicle with which to hate him. Previously he was hated for decisions by local councils to have low traffic neighbourhoods, and he has been hated for knife crime because of decisions by central government to restrict police funding, he has been hated for criticising the visit(s) by vulva grabbing Trump.
    Of course nobody hates Sadiq Khan for coming from a Muslim background and not having a white skin, oh no it’s not that at all.
    Classic race baiting that Khan would be so proud of if he could see it.

    Also ironic coming from someone that hates our current prime minister. I suppose you hate our prime minister for not being white ay Plum. Are you a little bit racist just like all those that don't like Khan?
    Are you saying that those who dislike Khan are racists?

  • stop_shouting
    stop_shouting Posts: 3,680
    seth plum said:
    What is a race grifter?
    Someone that stirs up racial hatred
  • Friend Or Defoe
    Friend Or Defoe Posts: 18,091
    JohnnyH2 said:
    JamesSeed said:
    I know the air has improved a lot where I live over the 20 years we’ve lived here. We’re not far from the south circ. One of my sons has asthma, and that has improved. General lowering of car emissions during that time has helped, and ULEZ continued that process. But something did need to be done, it’s easy to forget how bad it was. 
    On our holiday to Santorini I was reminded of what London of that. Found the fumes (and heat) in built up areas difficult to cope with. 
    Some of the vitriol aimed at Khan is OTT. He’s not an evil man trying to enrich himself (there are enough of those around) and he seems sincere in what he’s doing, to me at least. Met him a few times through work and he seemed alright. Not particularly charismatic, quite ordinary really, and no massive ego as far as I could see. But he does seem eltonengender real hatred from some. Take a peek at the replies to any of his tweets and it’s quite scary. He gets a lot of death threats apparently. 
    I haven’t followed this very closely, but ULEZ was a policy supported, if not instigated, by Boris Johnson wasn’t it? I suspect if he’d remained Mayor he would have had plenty of funding from central government to follow it through. 
    Politics is a dirty business, and it’s not in the Tories interests for Khan to be a success, so they’ll do everything they can to make things difficult for him (like reducing funding), aided and supported of course by papers like the Telegraph and the Daily Mail.
    20 mph is more than fast enough in the residential streets around where I live. That’s nothing to do with Khan of course. Some of the bigger roads it’s hard to stick to the limit, but having just completed a speed awareness course (caught out in Nottingham on a dual carriageway) I have to. One tip they gave us on the course was to use cruise control if you have it. It’s supposed to help you get more mpg as well. 👍
    But I think if there’s more evidence that 30mph on bigger roads really does reduce emissions, then maybe there’ll be changes. 
    Khan is the Mayor representing the economically poorest people in our society. His plan is to punish these people specifically in a cost of living crisis.

    That he is why he get the 'vitriol'
    Where was the protest when it was extended to the south circular, or are these people richer than those in the suburbs?
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    stop_shouting said:
    seth plum said:
    What is a race grifter?
    Someone that stirs up racial hatred
    Is there any evidence that Khan has said or done anything or taken any steps to stir up racial hatred?
  • SporadicAddick
    SporadicAddick Posts: 6,857
    seth plum said:
    Some people have always hated Khan and the ULEZ scheme is the current vehicle with which to hate him. Previously he was hated for decisions by local councils to have low traffic neighbourhoods, and he has been hated for knife crime because of decisions by central government to restrict police funding, he has been hated for criticising the visit(s) by vulva grabbing Trump.
    Of course nobody hates Sadiq Khan for coming from a Muslim background and not having a white skin, oh no it’s not that at all.
    Plum strikes again with the race card. It seems omnipresent in his approach to most things, including posters on here, the majority of the electorate and Question Time presenters.
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  • stop_shouting
    stop_shouting Posts: 3,680
    seth plum said:
    stop_shouting said:
    seth plum said:
    What is a race grifter?
    Someone that stirs up racial hatred
    Is there any evidence that Khan has said or done anything or taken any steps to stir up racial hatred?
    Yep
  • blackpool72
    blackpool72 Posts: 23,679
    seth plum said:
    stop_shouting said:
    seth plum said:
    What is a race grifter?
    Someone that stirs up racial hatred
    Is there any evidence that Khan has said or done anything or taken any steps to stir up racial hatred?
    You are the one stirring up racial hatred. 

    This thread is about ULEZ .

    But you are suggesting that people do not like Khan because he's a Muslim. 

    His religion has f##k all to do with it.
    In exactly the same way as your hatred for our current Prime minister has f###k all to do with his religion. 

    Now can we get back to discussing ULEZ  and not try making it all about race or religion. 
  • Friend Or Defoe
    Friend Or Defoe Posts: 18,091


    Yes, that is people riding horses at a ULEZ demonstration.
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    blackpool72 said:
    seth plum said:
    stop_shouting said:
    seth plum said:
    What is a race grifter?
    Someone that stirs up racial hatred
    Is there any evidence that Khan has said or done anything or taken any steps to stir up racial hatred?
    You are the one stirring up racial hatred. 

    This thread is about ULEZ .

    But you are suggesting that people do not like Khan because he's a Muslim. 

    His religion has f##k all to do with it.
    In exactly the same way as your hatred for our current Prime minister has f###k all to do with his religion. 

    Now can we get back to discussing ULEZ  and not try making it all about race or religion. 
    I clearly wrote that people are not condemning Khan because of race and religion. It is in the post I wrote above at 9.59.
    My initial contribution was to question whether ULEZ has simply been brought in to create a cash cow. I wrote that late yesterday.
  • blackpool72
    blackpool72 Posts: 23,679
    Friend Or Defoe said:


    Yes, that is people riding horses at a ULEZ demonstration.
    I was there yesterday watching it all.
    This type of demo happens quite often in Orpington. 
    People who suggest that the anti ULEZ  movement is pretty small and that most people don't really care are way off the mark 
  • Friend Or Defoe
    Friend Or Defoe Posts: 18,091
    blackpool72 said:
    seth plum said:
    stop_shouting said:
    seth plum said:
    What is a race grifter?
    Someone that stirs up racial hatred
    Is there any evidence that Khan has said or done anything or taken any steps to stir up racial hatred?
    You are the one stirring up racial hatred. 

    This thread is about ULEZ .

    But you are suggesting that people do not like Khan because he's a Muslim. 

    His religion has f##k all to do with it.
    In exactly the same way as your hatred for our current Prime minister has f###k all to do with his religion. 

    Now can we get back to discussing ULEZ  and not try making it all about race or religion. 
    There's a section of society that hate Boris because of his rich background and likewise Khan for his ethnicity. Both are in the minority I hope.

    Comments above about Khan stirring up racial hatred seem odd.
  • stop_shouting
    stop_shouting Posts: 3,680
    Friend Or Defoe said:
    blackpool72 said:
    seth plum said:
    stop_shouting said:
    seth plum said:
    What is a race grifter?
    Someone that stirs up racial hatred
    Is there any evidence that Khan has said or done anything or taken any steps to stir up racial hatred?
    You are the one stirring up racial hatred. 

    This thread is about ULEZ .

    But you are suggesting that people do not like Khan because he's a Muslim. 

    His religion has f##k all to do with it.
    In exactly the same way as your hatred for our current Prime minister has f###k all to do with his religion. 

    Now can we get back to discussing ULEZ  and not try making it all about race or religion. 
    There's a section of society that hate Boris because of his rich background and likewise Khan for his ethnicity. Both are in the minority I hope.

    Comments above about Khan stirring up racial hatred seem odd.
    Really? 

  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    stop_shouting said:
    Friend Or Defoe said:
    blackpool72 said:
    seth plum said:
    stop_shouting said:
    seth plum said:
    What is a race grifter?
    Someone that stirs up racial hatred
    Is there any evidence that Khan has said or done anything or taken any steps to stir up racial hatred?
    You are the one stirring up racial hatred. 

    This thread is about ULEZ .

    But you are suggesting that people do not like Khan because he's a Muslim. 

    His religion has f##k all to do with it.
    In exactly the same way as your hatred for our current Prime minister has f###k all to do with his religion. 

    Now can we get back to discussing ULEZ  and not try making it all about race or religion. 
    There's a section of society that hate Boris because of his rich background and likewise Khan for his ethnicity. Both are in the minority I hope.

    Comments above about Khan stirring up racial hatred seem odd.
    Really? 

    That Independent article indicates Khan taking action to reduce racial hatred.
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    On the ULEZ issue, has anybody found evidence that the scheme has been brought in to provide a cash cow for Khan to use as he pleases?
  • stop_shouting
    stop_shouting Posts: 3,680
    seth plum said:
    stop_shouting said:
    Friend Or Defoe said:
    blackpool72 said:
    seth plum said:
    stop_shouting said:
    seth plum said:
    What is a race grifter?
    Someone that stirs up racial hatred
    Is there any evidence that Khan has said or done anything or taken any steps to stir up racial hatred?
    You are the one stirring up racial hatred. 

    This thread is about ULEZ .

    But you are suggesting that people do not like Khan because he's a Muslim. 

    His religion has f##k all to do with it.
    In exactly the same way as your hatred for our current Prime minister has f###k all to do with his religion. 

    Now can we get back to discussing ULEZ  and not try making it all about race or religion. 
    There's a section of society that hate Boris because of his rich background and likewise Khan for his ethnicity. Both are in the minority I hope.

    Comments above about Khan stirring up racial hatred seem odd.
    Really? 

    That Independent article indicates Khan taking action to reduce racial hatred.
    How on earth is saying that white families don’t represent Londoners acceptable. 

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