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CAFC Tactics Thread 2023-24
NabySarr
Posts: 4,286
I thought it would be a good idea to start up a thread on this, for those like me that are interested in the tactical side of the game.
Noticed an interesting part of our game on Saturday where we were often using inverted full backs. Asiimwe did this most often, with Edun mostly staying wide on the left, but he did also come centrally on occasion. The best example of this was on our second goal, Asiimwe (circled) is in a central midfield position and passes to Edun, who is also quite narrow.
Noticed an interesting part of our game on Saturday where we were often using inverted full backs. Asiimwe did this most often, with Edun mostly staying wide on the left, but he did also come centrally on occasion. The best example of this was on our second goal, Asiimwe (circled) is in a central midfield position and passes to Edun, who is also quite narrow.
Lots of top teams have been using this tactic for a while with the likes of Cancelo, Partey, Zinchenko, Trent etc and there were even glimpses of it for us with Garnerball with Clare and Sessegnon. But I think Asiimwe on Saturday was the most extreme we’ve seen so far for us with the amount of times he came into central midfield.
A big reason for doing it is that it isolates your wide player 1v1, rather than traditionally you might see a 2v2 and less space for the wide player. So for city/arsenal they want the likes of Grealish, Saka, Martinelli getting 1v1 against full backs with as much space as possible. In the example above you can see how much space CBT has 1v1 against the full back, who is left in no man’s land deciding whether to get close to CBT or block the eventual pass from Edun. We have very good 1v1 dribblers in CBT and the Campbells so I think this was a good plan from Pearce, and particularly with Edun’s history as a central midfielder something we might see more of.
A further plus is that playing your full backs inverted narrower instead of wide supporting the winger is a much safer way to prevent counter attacks, which was a huge weakness of the side under Holden and something we looked a lot stronger against on Saturday
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It also led to Fleetwood’s goal. Stockley being picked up by Anderson rather than Asimwe.0
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Cancelo, Partey, Zinchenko, Trent
and Asiimwe0 -
I think that was more due to Hector not picking up Stockley. After the goal he would swap with Asiimwe so that he followed stockley to the back postStreekDerek said:It also led to Fleetwood’s goal. Stockley being picked up by Anderson rather than Asimwe.0 -
No way should be relying on the full back to pick up Stockley - one of the centre backs should have. Also Edun should have closed the crosser down.StreekDerek said:It also led to Fleetwood’s goal. Stockley being picked up by Anderson rather than Asimwe.3 -
I noticed in the 2nd half v Fleetwood CBT was coming inside with the ball more than staying out on the wing0
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Got to be pleased with the emergence of the very young Nathan Asimwe during 2023.
The only reason to look forward to Asimwe being dropped is because we then have a damn good player to play in his position.
Then again a blind and stupid manager might drop him and play an unsuited player in that position.0 -
A lot of that was due to good movement from Stockley on this occasion. The shape of the back four isn't bad going into the cross. Edun has gone to his man, Jones is covering the near post in case Edun gets beaten, Hector is picking up the man in the box and Asiimwe is watching in the player arriving late in the box. Anderson does his job and follows Stockley into the box but he's a bit out-matched. After that there's problems. Edun doesn't get anything like close enough to block the cross and once Dobson has come into the box it probably would have been good if Jones and Hector had been able to shuffle over as Jones is a bit spare when the ball comes over. It's hard to make those switches there, and dangerous as well. If the cross comes in as they move then no-one gets marked at all and we're annoyed for different reasons. The real problems are that Stockley manages to win that initial ball completely unopposed in the middle as Dobson gets drawn to a ball he's never going to win and Anderson is covering another man. Edun then manages to get bamboozled by nothing and gives the winger more space than he needs to get the cross in as Stockley arrives late in the box. Jones also manages to be completely spare for the entire move which is quite impressive.NabySarr said:
I think that was more due to Hector not picking up Stockley. After the goal he would swap with Asiimwe so that he followed stockley to the back postStreekDerek said:It also led to Fleetwood’s goal. Stockley being picked up by Anderson rather than Asimwe.
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I managed to miss the Fleetwood goal so can't comment on what happened there but I was impressed with how Asiimwe coped inverting as I assume it's something that's fairly new to him. Credit to Pearce/Hayes for giving it a go too as it allowed Anderson & Asiimwe to use their great connection more often. I also thought the freedom given to C Campbell meant Fleetwood didn't know how to control him. CBT playing well as a winger made it even more obvious that he shouldn't be played as a wingback2
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The inverted full back isn't a Pep Guardiola creation as some claim as I can remember Cruyff (who played in the total football Dutch style) playing this system at Barcelona on occasions as Manager/Head coach.
You would assume this is where Pep first saw the possibility.
Not to be mixed up with inverted wingers/wide forwards who play on the opposite side to their stronger foot.
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If I remember right he struggled a little bit in the first half with going round the outside, I thought the Fleetwood defender was doing quite well at dealing with him. Second half as you say he came inside more and was more effectivelancashire lad said:I noticed in the 2nd half v Fleetwood CBT was coming inside with the ball more than staying out on the wing0 -
Had noticed both our full backs playing higher up the pitch than previous seasons but thanks for highlighting cutting in (inverted).
It will be helpful to assess tactics, formations and players. We've seen the back of 3-5-2 under Holden. Since then Scott nailed four new signings at the end of the window. And we have 2 x Campbell available.
Aside from four at the back (who is our best keeper and centre back pairing?) we are bound to see all manner of variations for the front six.
For their goal, Stockley did what he does best but we should also note that their no. 11 was head and shoulders above the rest. Easy to blame Edun, but replays show their 11 created the space and then put in a perfect cross. But that and the Stockley free kick were their only real chances all game.
One real difference for us was to see Chem Campbell as a No.10 behind the front players. Been a long time since we've seen that role played so well.1 -
Or it might just be that, in football, players move around a bit. Its not like netball where you can't move out of your "zone" or one-day cricket where you have to have a certain number of fielders insidee/outside the 30 yard circle.NabySarr said:I thought it would be a good idea to start up a thread on this, for those like me that are interested in the tactical side of the game.
Noticed an interesting part of our game on Saturday where we were often using inverted full backs. Asiimwe did this most often, with Edun mostly staying wide on the left, but he did also come centrally on occasion. The best example of this was on our second goal, Asiimwe (circled) is in a central midfield position and passes to Edun, who is also quite narrow.Lots of top teams have been using this tactic for a while with the likes of Cancelo, Partey, Zinchenko, Trent etc and there were even glimpses of it for us with Garnerball with Clare and Sessegnon. But I think Asiimwe on Saturday was the most extreme we’ve seen so far for us with the amount of times he came into central midfield.A big reason for doing it is that it isolates your wide player 1v1, rather than traditionally you might see a 2v2 and less space for the wide player. So for city/arsenal they want the likes of Grealish, Saka, Martinelli getting 1v1 against full backs with as much space as possible. In the example above you can see how much space CBT has 1v1 against the full back, who is left in no man’s land deciding whether to get close to CBT or block the eventual pass from Edun. We have very good 1v1 dribblers in CBT and the Campbells so I think this was a good plan from Pearce, and particularly with Edun’s history as a central midfielder something we might see more of.A further plus is that playing your full backs inverted narrower instead of wide supporting the winger is a much safer way to prevent counter attacks, which was a huge weakness of the side under Holden and something we looked a lot stronger against on Saturday
In your freeze frame where was Asiimwe 10 seconds earlier ? He might have just made a 30 yard lung busting run. He might have been tracking his man who dragged him out of position.
I think too much emphasis is put on formations. We've had 5 managers in less than 4 years, all supposedly with FIFA coaching badges, and yet none of them could get us into the top 6 with a coherent strategy.1 -
If it’s a repeated strategy (it was as Asiimwe kept moving centrally when we had the ball) then it’s probably more deliberate than just a case of “players move around a bit”. It’s clearly something that Pearce thought would work and it did both with the ball and to prevent us being countered as often as we were under Holdengolfaddick said:
Or it might just be that, in football, players move around a bit. Its not like netball where you can't move out of your "zone" or one-day cricket where you have to have a certain number of fielders insude/outside the 30 yard circle.NabySarr said:I thought it would be a good idea to start up a thread on this, for those like me that are interested in the tactical side of the game.
Noticed an interesting part of our game on Saturday where we were often using inverted full backs. Asiimwe did this most often, with Edun mostly staying wide on the left, but he did also come centrally on occasion. The best example of this was on our second goal, Asiimwe (circled) is in a central midfield position and passes to Edun, who is also quite narrow.Lots of top teams have been using this tactic for a while with the likes of Cancelo, Partey, Zinchenko, Trent etc and there were even glimpses of it for us with Garnerball with Clare and Sessegnon. But I think Asiimwe on Saturday was the most extreme we’ve seen so far for us with the amount of times he came into central midfield.A big reason for doing it is that it isolates your wide player 1v1, rather than traditionally you might see a 2v2 and less space for the wide player. So for city/arsenal they want the likes of Grealish, Saka, Martinelli getting 1v1 against full backs with as much space as possible. In the example above you can see how much space CBT has 1v1 against the full back, who is left in no man’s land deciding whether to get close to CBT or block the eventual pass from Edun. We have very good 1v1 dribblers in CBT and the Campbells so I think this was a good plan from Pearce, and particularly with Edun’s history as a central midfielder something we might see more of.A further plus is that playing your full backs inverted narrower instead of wide supporting the winger is a much safer way to prevent counter attacks, which was a huge weakness of the side under Holden and something we looked a lot stronger against on Saturday
I think too much emphasis is put on formations. We've had 5 managers in less than 4 years, all supposedly with FIFA coaching badges, and yet none of them could get us into the top 6 with a coherent strategy.
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If he's made a thirty yard lung busting run in ten seconds, we need to replace him with someone fittergolfaddick said:
Or it might just be that, in football, players move around a bit. Its not like netball where you can't move out of your "zone" or one-day cricket where you have to have a certain number of fielders insidee/outside the 30 yard circle.NabySarr said:I thought it would be a good idea to start up a thread on this, for those like me that are interested in the tactical side of the game.
Noticed an interesting part of our game on Saturday where we were often using inverted full backs. Asiimwe did this most often, with Edun mostly staying wide on the left, but he did also come centrally on occasion. The best example of this was on our second goal, Asiimwe (circled) is in a central midfield position and passes to Edun, who is also quite narrow.Lots of top teams have been using this tactic for a while with the likes of Cancelo, Partey, Zinchenko, Trent etc and there were even glimpses of it for us with Garnerball with Clare and Sessegnon. But I think Asiimwe on Saturday was the most extreme we’ve seen so far for us with the amount of times he came into central midfield.A big reason for doing it is that it isolates your wide player 1v1, rather than traditionally you might see a 2v2 and less space for the wide player. So for city/arsenal they want the likes of Grealish, Saka, Martinelli getting 1v1 against full backs with as much space as possible. In the example above you can see how much space CBT has 1v1 against the full back, who is left in no man’s land deciding whether to get close to CBT or block the eventual pass from Edun. We have very good 1v1 dribblers in CBT and the Campbells so I think this was a good plan from Pearce, and particularly with Edun’s history as a central midfielder something we might see more of.A further plus is that playing your full backs inverted narrower instead of wide supporting the winger is a much safer way to prevent counter attacks, which was a huge weakness of the side under Holden and something we looked a lot stronger against on Saturday
In your freeze frame where was Asiimwe 10 seconds earlier ? He might have just made a 30 yard lung busting run. He might have been tracking his man who dragged him out of position.
I think too much emphasis is put on formations. We've had 5 managers in less than 4 years, all supposedly with FIFA coaching badges, and yet none of them could get us into the top 6 with a coherent strategy.0 -
Haven't managed to see a full game under Appleton yet. Is TC playing as a 10 or as a more advanced 8?0
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Interesting that it's not Chem Campbell playing as he seems more of a 10 to me5
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I get the thinking behind having a very fluid 3 behind May but I just don't think it gets the best out of what we've got at our disposal. May needs Leaburn as an out and out strike partner who can occupy CBs and make the space for May to be effective.
Will be interesting to see how we set up tomorrow if Taylor is injured again and if Louis Watson comes back in.0 -
Think you're right about tomorrow. Would be amazed to see the same 11 minus Taylor. Think we might see one of the Campbells on the right wing with Leaburn on the bench given he's recently back from injury. Wonder if CBT struggled on Saturday as he had Thomas behind him rather than the more attacking Edun. Much harder to double up on CBT when his fullback is also a threatMarcusH26 said:I get the thinking behind having a very fluid 3 behind May but I just don't think it gets the best out of what we've got at our disposal. May needs Leaburn as an out and out strike partner who can occupy CBs and make the space for May to be effective.
Will be interesting to see how we set up tomorrow if Taylor is injured again and if Louis Watson comes back in.1 - Sponsored links:
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fenaddick said:
Think you're right about tomorrow. Would be amazed to see the same 11 minus Taylor. Think we might see one of the Campbells on the right wing with Leaburn on the bench given he's recently back from injury. Wonder if CBT struggled on Saturday as he had Thomas behind him rather than the more attacking Edun. Much harder to double up on CBT when his fullback is also a threatMarcusH26 said:I get the thinking behind having a very fluid 3 behind May but I just don't think it gets the best out of what we've got at our disposal. May needs Leaburn as an out and out strike partner who can occupy CBs and make the space for May to be effective.
Will be interesting to see how we set up tomorrow if Taylor is injured again and if Louis Watson comes back in.
Yeah I would expect a few changes, don't think Fraser will be ready to start but Chem Campbell I would expect to start wide if he wasn't left out due to injury and potentially Anderson in an advanced midfield role?
Was toying with going with May and Tedic up top but think you'd be asking for trouble going 442 even at home.
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I remember seeing some pretty good performances from Leaburn when he played as a wide forward during his first few appearances last season. I've not personally seen him play there recently so it's a shame it sounds like it's not working out for him there. I thought having him attacking the far post would have paid off more.
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DartfordAddick said:I remember seeing some pretty good performances from Leaburn when he played as a wide forward during his first few appearances last season. I've not personally seen him play there recently so it's a shame it sounds like it's not working out for him there. I thought having him attacking the far post would have paid off more.
It did against Wycombe as well. People are just overreacting to his quiet performance at the weekend IMO.
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Tonight will be interesting tactically, Chuks, Tedic, May and CBT are all starting.1
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Expect this to be really fluid between Tedic, Chuks and May. Hoping the aerial presence of Chuks and Tedic will allow May to grab the second ball and play more like he did at CheltenhamScoham said:Tonight will be interesting tactically, Chuks, Tedic, May and CBT are all starting.0 -
Didn't Chuks play as a 10 for Dons. Reckon that's May up top, Tedic RW and Chuks behind.1
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May as the 10 looks to be the best way we can play Appletons system, and it means we can have Aneke/Leaburn centrally ahead of him.Not sure how the hell we are going to fit Fraser in though, still think 3-5-2 is the best we can do as then we can have him alongside Watson and Dobson. But at least we aren’t playing May or Leaburn on the wing anymore0
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Not sure it’s possible to fit our best players into one 11. Even just looking at the midfield you’ve got Watson, Dosbon, Fraser and Camara (when fit) and then Taylor, Anderson and McGrandles too. One thing we’ve struggled for in recent years has been strength in depth so it’s a nice problem to have. Can see Fraser/Watson/Camara rotating around in the spot next to Dobson with maybe Watson used as cover when Dobson gets injured/suspendedNabySarr said:May as the 10 looks to be the best way we can play Appletons system, and it means we can have Aneke/Leaburn centrally ahead of him.Not sure how the hell we are going to fit Fraser in though, still think 3-5-2 is the best we can do as then we can have him alongside Watson and Dobson. But at least we aren’t playing May or Leaburn on the wing anymore1 -
You're right in that it's not all about formations. However choosing a basic approach that suits the squad as well as competing in the League is a given.golfaddick said:
Or it might just be that, in football, players move around a bit. Its not like netball where you can't move out of your "zone" or one-day cricket where you have to have a certain number of fielders insidee/outside the 30 yard circle.NabySarr said:I thought it would be a good idea to start up a thread on this, for those like me that are interested in the tactical side of the game.
Noticed an interesting part of our game on Saturday where we were often using inverted full backs. Asiimwe did this most often, with Edun mostly staying wide on the left, but he did also come centrally on occasion. The best example of this was on our second goal, Asiimwe (circled) is in a central midfield position and passes to Edun, who is also quite narrow.Lots of top teams have been using this tactic for a while with the likes of Cancelo, Partey, Zinchenko, Trent etc and there were even glimpses of it for us with Garnerball with Clare and Sessegnon. But I think Asiimwe on Saturday was the most extreme we’ve seen so far for us with the amount of times he came into central midfield.A big reason for doing it is that it isolates your wide player 1v1, rather than traditionally you might see a 2v2 and less space for the wide player. So for city/arsenal they want the likes of Grealish, Saka, Martinelli getting 1v1 against full backs with as much space as possible. In the example above you can see how much space CBT has 1v1 against the full back, who is left in no man’s land deciding whether to get close to CBT or block the eventual pass from Edun. We have very good 1v1 dribblers in CBT and the Campbells so I think this was a good plan from Pearce, and particularly with Edun’s history as a central midfielder something we might see more of.A further plus is that playing your full backs inverted narrower instead of wide supporting the winger is a much safer way to prevent counter attacks, which was a huge weakness of the side under Holden and something we looked a lot stronger against on Saturday
In your freeze frame where was Asiimwe 10 seconds earlier ? He might have just made a 30 yard lung busting run. He might have been tracking his man who dragged him out of position.
I think too much emphasis is put on formations. We've had 5 managers in less than 4 years, all supposedly with FIFA coaching badges, and yet none of them could get us into the top 6 with a coherent strategy.
We have had more than one manager a year but Andy Scott who pulls all the strings on the football side might be with us for two or three years?
In his seven week stint at the start of the year plus his eight weeks since he returned he's managed to decommission 75% of the Matchday 18 from 12 months ago. And instill a clear four at the back approach.
Naturally players move around the pitch throughout games. In fact CAFC sides in previous seasons have been way too static! Last night we saw a solid 4-2-3-1 with two decent CDM pivots.
Some might criticise the choice of May as our latest candidate for No. 10. Chem Campbell might be technically better but who's gonna drop May.
Same at right wing where one might push a case for Tyreece Campbell. But he has to train hard and shine from the bench to displace Tedic.
So it's possible that CAFC has a coherent strategy but perhaps too early to call just yet. We still get turned over on occasion EG the Exeter goal last night. But we're creating far more these days.0 -
But Alfie May definitely can’t play as a 10 behind a big man like Aneke… that would be playing him out of position…golfaddick said:
Or it might just be that, in football, players move around a bit. Its not like netball where you can't move out of your "zone" or one-day cricket where you have to have a certain number of fielders insidee/outside the 30 yard circle.NabySarr said:I thought it would be a good idea to start up a thread on this, for those like me that are interested in the tactical side of the game.
Noticed an interesting part of our game on Saturday where we were often using inverted full backs. Asiimwe did this most often, with Edun mostly staying wide on the left, but he did also come centrally on occasion. The best example of this was on our second goal, Asiimwe (circled) is in a central midfield position and passes to Edun, who is also quite narrow.Lots of top teams have been using this tactic for a while with the likes of Cancelo, Partey, Zinchenko, Trent etc and there were even glimpses of it for us with Garnerball with Clare and Sessegnon. But I think Asiimwe on Saturday was the most extreme we’ve seen so far for us with the amount of times he came into central midfield.A big reason for doing it is that it isolates your wide player 1v1, rather than traditionally you might see a 2v2 and less space for the wide player. So for city/arsenal they want the likes of Grealish, Saka, Martinelli getting 1v1 against full backs with as much space as possible. In the example above you can see how much space CBT has 1v1 against the full back, who is left in no man’s land deciding whether to get close to CBT or block the eventual pass from Edun. We have very good 1v1 dribblers in CBT and the Campbells so I think this was a good plan from Pearce, and particularly with Edun’s history as a central midfielder something we might see more of.A further plus is that playing your full backs inverted narrower instead of wide supporting the winger is a much safer way to prevent counter attacks, which was a huge weakness of the side under Holden and something we looked a lot stronger against on Saturday
In your freeze frame where was Asiimwe 10 seconds earlier ? He might have just made a 30 yard lung busting run. He might have been tracking his man who dragged him out of position.
I think too much emphasis is put on formations. We've had 5 managers in less than 4 years, all supposedly with FIFA coaching badges, and yet none of them could get us into the top 6 with a coherent strategy.0
