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Alfie May & Ralph Allen

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  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,745
    edited November 2023
    ButtleJR said:
    He said he wants a minimum of 20 more goals last night!
    I heard this and thought the same thing, but listening a second time what he means is that he wants to get 20 goals again, like last season and the year before at Cheltenham, (and then go on from there), which seems more likely.

    He’s ahead of Hales in the season in which he got 31 (league and cup, 28 league), but behind the year he was sold. He’s well ahead of Allen, who as above signed mid-season. 
  • jimmymelrose
    jimmymelrose Posts: 9,753
    It's easy to think of Alfie May as a player who got stuck in non-league without any club in the league figuring out how good he really is but he has actually been playing in The Football league since January 2017. That's over four years stuck in League Two until Cheltenham's promotion in 2021. How is it that he's still gone under the radar even in the football league for the last 6-7 years?
  • AndyG
    AndyG Posts: 5,911
    He must be an absolute nightmare to play against ! He mentioned the other night that he has never felt fitter. I’m often gobsmacked when watching a game that one min he is on the ball wide right then he pops up the other side of the pitch, how do you mark that as an opposing team 
  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 28,662
    AndyG said:
    He must be an absolute nightmare to play against ! He mentioned the other night that he has never felt fitter. I’m often gobsmacked when watching a game that one min he is on the ball wide right then he pops up the other side of the pitch, how do you mark that as an opposing team 
    First half he chased Lisbie back from the halfway line into our box. He never stops running.
  • Oggy Red
    Oggy Red Posts: 44,957
    jimmymelrose said:
    It's easy to think of Alfie May as a player who got stuck in non-league without any club in the league figuring out how good he really is but he has actually been playing in The Football league since January 2017. That's over four years stuck in League Two until Cheltenham's promotion in 2021. How is it that he's still gone under the radar even in the football league for the last 6-7 years?
    Belief. 
     
    Alfie himself said recently that he worked on his mentality.
    During games he would tell himself he "was the best player on the pitch" and that he "would score today". 

    Combine that strong confident mentality with good anticipation and decision making - then add the vital ingredient, 100% workrate. 

    Compare his determination and attitude with many others on the pitch. 
    Perhaps his story of having to do a proper grafting job to earn his living, before coming into the professional game as a late starter - makes him appreciate the value of his career? 
     

  • Lewis Coaches
    Lewis Coaches Posts: 5,409
    shirty5 said:
    Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
    I remember we had this 'will he, won't he' conversation about Killer during his best season back in the 70s.
    He ended up falling short of Ralphie's record.
    Think he ended with something like 28 in all comps.
    It'll be fun seeing if Alfie can do it, but you have to factor in injury, loss of form, opposition paying him special attention etc
    Before he was sold to Derby back in December 1976, Derek had scored 18 goals in 19 League and Cup appearances by the beginning of November 
    Derek Hales was and is the best goalscorer Charlton have had. Picked up for next to nothing , people forget just how good he was. 
    First game of season he ripped Cardiff apart at Ninian Park with a hat-trick. May is nothing like Killer and I can’t foresee him beating Hales goals for a season let alone Allen’s .
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,341
    Lewis Coaches said:
    shirty5 said:
    Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
    I remember we had this 'will he, won't he' conversation about Killer during his best season back in the 70s.
    He ended up falling short of Ralphie's record.
    Think he ended with something like 28 in all comps.
    It'll be fun seeing if Alfie can do it, but you have to factor in injury, loss of form, opposition paying him special attention etc
    Before he was sold to Derby back in December 1976, Derek had scored 18 goals in 19 League and Cup appearances by the beginning of November 
    Derek Hales was and is the best goalscorer Charlton have had. Picked up for next to nothing , people forget just how good he was. 
    First game of season he ripped Cardiff apart at Ninian Park with a hat-trick. May is nothing like Killer and I can’t foresee him beating Hales goals for a season let alone Allen’s .
    Agree with all of this, wholeheartedly. Except the second half of the last sentence. 
  • killerjerrylee
    killerjerrylee Posts: 728
    Lewis Coaches said:
    shirty5 said:
    Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
    I remember we had this 'will he, won't he' conversation about Killer during his best season back in the 70s.
    He ended up falling short of Ralphie's record.
    Think he ended with something like 28 in all comps.
    It'll be fun seeing if Alfie can do it, but you have to factor in injury, loss of form, opposition paying him special attention etc
    Before he was sold to Derby back in December 1976, Derek had scored 18 goals in 19 League and Cup appearances by the beginning of November 
    Derek Hales was and is the best goalscorer Charlton have had. Picked up for next to nothing , people forget just how good he was. 
    First game of season he ripped Cardiff apart at Ninian Park with a hat-trick. May is nothing like Killer and I can’t foresee him beating Hales goals for a season let alone Allen’s .
    What an extraordinary claim. Derek Hales was a fabulous goalscorer, but Charlton's best. You must be joking. Stuart Leary and Eddie Firmani were in a different class and scored their goals in the top division. You need to make a trip to the Museum and brush up on the club's history.
  • killerjerrylee
    killerjerrylee Posts: 728
    Oh and I forgot to mention, both Leary and Firmani were picked up for nothing.
  • Braziliance
    Braziliance Posts: 8,360
    Genuine question, can older records be compared to the modern age? 

    My first game was in the year 2000 that I can remember and football was different then to even now. 

    These ex-Charlton strikers like Firmani, Hales, Leary, Allen etc. Were  they genuinely quality or was football easier? 

    I can only go by records and brief highlights. My uncle is a Derby fan and tells me Hales was fantastic. 

    I am well overdue a trip to the Charlton museum tbh. 

    So for those who were there, how would May do in the 70s and how would a player like Firmani do in this modern age do you think? 

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  • EveshamAddick
    EveshamAddick Posts: 7,019
    Braziliance said:
    Genuine question, can older records be compared to the modern age? 

    My first game was in the year 2000 that I can remember and football was different then to even now. 

    These ex-Charlton strikers like Firmani, Hales, Leary, Allen etc. Were  they genuinely quality or was football easier? 

    I can only go by records and brief highlights. My uncle is a Derby fan and tells me Hales was fantastic. 

    I am well overdue a trip to the Charlton museum tbh. 

    So for those who were there, how would May do in the 70s and how would a player like Firmani do in this modern age do you think? 
    It sure feels like we are back in the 70s playing at this level…..
  • Lordflashheart
    Lordflashheart Posts: 5,623
    Braziliance said:
    Genuine question, can older records be compared to the modern age? 

    My first game was in the year 2000 that I can remember and football was different then to even now. 

    These ex-Charlton strikers like Firmani, Hales, Leary, Allen etc. Were  they genuinely quality or was football easier? 

    I can only go by records and brief highlights. My uncle is a Derby fan and tells me Hales was fantastic. 

    I am well overdue a trip to the Charlton museum tbh. 

    So for those who were there, how would May do in the 70s and how would a player like Firmani do in this modern age do you think? 
    Good point - players today play a lot more games - Hales would have had League, FA Cup and League Cup - Firmani and Leary would only have League and FA Cup (I think) - May has league and 3 cup competitions 
  • Lewis Coaches
    Lewis Coaches Posts: 5,409
    killerjerrylee said:
    Lewis Coaches said:
    shirty5 said:
    Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
    I remember we had this 'will he, won't he' conversation about Killer during his best season back in the 70s.
    He ended up falling short of Ralphie's record.
    Think he ended with something like 28 in all comps.
    It'll be fun seeing if Alfie can do it, but you have to factor in injury, loss of form, opposition paying him special attention etc
    Before he was sold to Derby back in December 1976, Derek had scored 18 goals in 19 League and Cup appearances by the beginning of November 
    Derek Hales was and is the best goalscorer Charlton have had. Picked up for next to nothing , people forget just how good he was. 
    First game of season he ripped Cardiff apart at Ninian Park with a hat-trick. May is nothing like Killer and I can’t foresee him beating Hales goals for a season let alone Allen’s .
    What an extraordinary claim. Derek Hales was a fabulous goalscorer, but Charlton's best. You must be joking. Stuart Leary and Eddie Firmani were in a different class and scored their goals in the top division. You need to make a trip to the Museum and brush up on the club's history.
    Brush up on club history, ? The words I used was Best goalscorer. Best equals Top goalscorer unless Leary or Firmani have made comebacks Derek Hales is our best .
  • killerjerrylee
    killerjerrylee Posts: 728
    Lewis Coaches said:
    killerjerrylee said:
    Lewis Coaches said:
    shirty5 said:
    Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
    I remember we had this 'will he, won't he' conversation about Killer during his best season back in the 70s.
    He ended up falling short of Ralphie's record.
    Think he ended with something like 28 in all comps.
    It'll be fun seeing if Alfie can do it, but you have to factor in injury, loss of form, opposition paying him special attention etc
    Before he was sold to Derby back in December 1976, Derek had scored 18 goals in 19 League and Cup appearances by the beginning of November 
    Derek Hales was and is the best goalscorer Charlton have had. Picked up for next to nothing , people forget just how good he was. 
    First game of season he ripped Cardiff apart at Ninian Park with a hat-trick. May is nothing like Killer and I can’t foresee him beating Hales goals for a season let alone Allen’s .
    What an extraordinary claim. Derek Hales was a fabulous goalscorer, but Charlton's best. You must be joking. Stuart Leary and Eddie Firmani were in a different class and scored their goals in the top division. You need to make a trip to the Museum and brush up on the club's history.
    Brush up on club history, ? The words I used was Best goalscorer. Best equals Top goalscorer unless Leary or Firmani have made comebacks Derek Hales is our best .
    Sorry chum, but best does not mean leading. We are in agreement that Derek Hales was a very fine player and scored the most Charlton goals (league and cup), but Leary got the most if you only count league matches. Don't forget Charlie Vaughan either. He holds the record for the most goals in the top division. My point was that Hales may be our leading scorer but was not the best.
  • Lewis Coaches
    Lewis Coaches Posts: 5,409
    killerjerrylee said:
    Lewis Coaches said:
    killerjerrylee said:
    Lewis Coaches said:
    shirty5 said:
    Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
    I remember we had this 'will he, won't he' conversation about Killer during his best season back in the 70s.
    He ended up falling short of Ralphie's record.
    Think he ended with something like 28 in all comps.
    It'll be fun seeing if Alfie can do it, but you have to factor in injury, loss of form, opposition paying him special attention etc
    Before he was sold to Derby back in December 1976, Derek had scored 18 goals in 19 League and Cup appearances by the beginning of November 
    Derek Hales was and is the best goalscorer Charlton have had. Picked up for next to nothing , people forget just how good he was. 
    First game of season he ripped Cardiff apart at Ninian Park with a hat-trick. May is nothing like Killer and I can’t foresee him beating Hales goals for a season let alone Allen’s .
    What an extraordinary claim. Derek Hales was a fabulous goalscorer, but Charlton's best. You must be joking. Stuart Leary and Eddie Firmani were in a different class and scored their goals in the top division. You need to make a trip to the Museum and brush up on the club's history.
    Brush up on club history, ? The words I used was Best goalscorer. Best equals Top goalscorer unless Leary or Firmani have made comebacks Derek Hales is our best .
    Sorry chum, but best does not mean leading. We are in agreement that Derek Hales was a very fine player and scored the most Charlton goals (league and cup), but Leary got the most if you only count league matches. Don't forget Charlie Vaughan either. He holds the record for the most goals in the top division. My point was that Hales may be our leading scorer but was not the best.
    What ever way you want to put it chum, Derek Hales is our Record Goalscorer FACT.
  • Richard J
    Richard J Posts: 8,033
    Interesting debate. I agree that football has changed dramatically since I first started watching in the 70's. I am not sure Derek's all round game would fit the modern game. One of the impressive aspects about May is the way he works hard for the team.

    I agree we need to consider which league that they played in when factoring the best player. Take Kevin Lisbie as an example. He was more prolific for the likes of Colchester and Orient partly because he played for them at a lower level. His Charlton career was mainly played at the top level. Therefore I agree Firmani and Leary's achievements deserve to be respected as more impressive.

    Interestingly Hales had a very respectable record at West Ham ( but not Derby ) in the top flight scoring 10 goals in 24 games for a team heading for relegation. Like Clive Mendonca whose top flight career was ruined by injury I believe he would have been successful had he been given more chances in the top flight.
  • killerjerrylee
    killerjerrylee Posts: 728
    I think Hales was good enough for the top flight. He just went to the wrong clubs at the wrong time. The Derby team was in serious decline when they signed him and then failed to utilise his strengths. At West Ham, he was playing while injured for much of the season, which makes his scoring ratio look even better. I love watching Alfie and hope that he scores 40 goals, but we must still remember that we are a Division 3 team and the gulf in class between the divisions is and always has been immense.
  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 29,036
    jimmymelrose said:
    It's easy to think of Alfie May as a player who got stuck in non-league without any club in the league figuring out how good he really is but he has actually been playing in The Football league since January 2017. That's over four years stuck in League Two until Cheltenham's promotion in 2021. How is it that he's still gone under the radar even in the football league for the last 6-7 years?
    I would imagine his height might have gone against him. There are loads of really good non-league players who are a bit shorter than average. I suspect Alfie might be like them and be someone who higher clubs haven't been prepared to take a risk on. Let's face it, every player in our squad has a reason that they haven't made a higher level (yet), for Chuks its injuries, for most it's that they aren't skillful enough. For Alfie, I suspect he hasn't met the height expectations of lazy talent scouts.
  • killerjerrylee
    killerjerrylee Posts: 728
    A few other similar threads have appeared along the same lines as this one, but Alfie remains on course to become Charlton's all-time leading goalscorer for a season. He needs to reach 34 league and cup goals to beat Ralph Allen's record, but is up to 19 already. Just keep free of injury, Alfie.
  • ross1
    ross1 Posts: 51,004
    killerjerrylee said:
    A few other similar threads have appeared along the same lines as this one, but Alfie remains on course to become Charlton's all-time leading goalscorer for a season. He needs to reach 34 league and cup goals to beat Ralph Allen's record, but is up to 19 already. Just keep free of injury, Alfie.
    A shame we have no more cup games

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  • Isawlearyplay
    Isawlearyplay Posts: 273
    Very late to this debate but apart from Allen have seen all of the candidates for best goalscorer ( been every season since 1952 )
    Stuart Leary is unrivalled as best ever player - that he scored lots of goals is impressive but for those fortunate enough to see him play it was his creativity and desire to win that will be remembered. Leary could run a game and on occasion he was unplayable.
  • StrikerFirmani
    StrikerFirmani Posts: 2,743
    Braziliance said:
    Genuine question, can older records be compared to the modern age? 

    My first game was in the year 2000 that I can remember and football was different then to even now. 

    These ex-Charlton strikers like Firmani, Hales, Leary, Allen etc. Were  they genuinely quality or was football easier? 

    I can only go by records and brief highlights. My uncle is a Derby fan and tells me Hales was fantastic. 

    I am well overdue a trip to the Charlton museum tbh. 

    So for those who were there, how would May do in the 70s and how would a player like Firmani do in this modern age do you think? 
    Hales was a finisher plan and simple and we played to his strengths in Div 2 (Championship).  His spells at Derby & WHU showed he had limitations and wasn't as successful as he was at CAFC.   

    Firmani was a class above playing for us in the top flight, a Italian International as his career progressed in Italy.  He had skills that would have made him a premiership player of today.  His return spell when his playing career had ended at top flight showed he could still cut it at Div2 (Championship) level no problem the level Derek Hales spent most of his playing career.  Chalk & Cheese as strikers no comparison.       
  • StrikerFirmani
    StrikerFirmani Posts: 2,743
    Forgot to say May would have scored goals in the 70's just as he does now but would have had more bruises at the end of the game for his troubles.
  • Plumstead_Micky
    Plumstead_Micky Posts: 932
    I initially read the title of the thread with Bradley Allen's name in it!
  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380
    edited December 2023
    Richard J said:
    Interesting debate. I agree that football has changed dramatically since I first started watching in the 70's. I am not sure Derek's all round game would fit the modern game. One of the impressive aspects about May is the way he works hard for the team.

    I agree we need to consider which league that they played in when factoring the best player. Take Kevin Lisbie as an example. He was more prolific for the likes of Colchester and Orient partly because he played for them at a lower level. His Charlton career was mainly played at the top level. Therefore I agree Firmani and Leary's achievements deserve to be respected as more impressive.

    Interestingly Hales had a very respectable record at West Ham ( but not Derby ) in the top flight scoring 10 goals in 24 games for a team heading for relegation. Like Clive Mendonca whose top flight career was ruined by injury I believe he would have been successful had he been given more chances in the top flight.
    You’re right, for sure, but you can’t really compare players from bygone eras with modern players. The game has evolved in so many ways. Players are fitter, stronger, faster and more technically adept. They train in different ways and they play on better pitches. 
    But players from the past were at the pinnacle of game as it was played in their day. The cup team of 1947 would of course come a cropper against a Premier League side - it wouldn’t even be a contest - but they were one of the best sides in the land at that time. Far, far more successful in their era than any Charlton side since the Curbs era. But bring them to Sparrow's Lane for a match against the current side and they’d lose heavily. Wouldn’t they?
  • charltonbob
    charltonbob Posts: 8,267
    edited December 2023
    JamesSeed said:
    Richard J said:


    I agree we need to consider which league that they played in when factoring the best player. Take Kevin Lisbie as an example. He was more prolific for the likes of Colchester and Orient partly because he played for them at a lower level. His Charlton career was mainly played at the top level. Therefore I agree Firmani and Leary's achievements deserve to be respected as more impressive.

    Interestingly Hales had a very respectable record at West Ham ( but not Derby ) in the top flight scoring 10 goals in 24 games for a team heading for relegation. Like Clive Mendonca whose top flight career was ruined by injury I believe he would have been successful had he been given more chances in the top flight.
    You’re right, for sure, but you can’t really compare players from bygone eras with modern players. The game has evolved in so many ways. Players are fitter, stronger, faster and more technically adept. They train in different ways and they play on better pitches. 
    But players from the past were at the pinnacle of game as it was played in their day. The cup team of 1947 would of course come a cropper against a Premier League side - it wouldn’t even be a contest - but they were one of the best sides in the land at that time. Far, far more successful in their era than any Charlton side since the Curbs era. But bring them to Sparrow's Lane for a match against the current side and they’d lose heavily. Wouldn’t they?
    Well to be fair they're getting on a bit, they may lose but bet they score a couple of goals 
  • killerjerrylee
    killerjerrylee Posts: 728
    charltonbob said:
    JamesSeed said:
    Richard J said:
    Interesting debate. I agree that football has changed dramatically since I first started watching in the 70's. I am not sure Derek's all round game would fit the modern game. One of the impressive aspects about May is the way he works hard for the team.

    I agree we need to consider which league that they played in when factoring the best player. Take Kevin Lisbie as an example. He was more prolific for the likes of Colchester and Orient partly because he played for them at a lower level. His Charlton career was mainly played at the top level. Therefore I agree Firmani and Leary's achievements deserve to be respected as more impressive.

    Interestingly Hales had a very respectable record at West Ham ( but not Derby ) in the top flight scoring 10 goals in 24 games for a team heading for relegation. Like Clive Mendonca whose top flight career was ruined by injury I believe he would have been successful had he been given more chances in the top flight.
    You’re right, for sure, but you can’t really compare players from bygone eras with modern players. The game has evolved in so many ways. Players are fitter, stronger, faster and more technically adept. They train in different ways and they play on better pitches. 
    But players from the past were at the pinnacle of game as it was played in their day. The cup team of 1947 would of course come a cropper against a Premier League side - it wouldn’t even be a contest - but they were one of the best sides in the land at that time. Far, far more successful in their era than any Charlton side since the Curbs era. But bring them to Sparrow's Lane for a match against the current side and they’d lose heavily. Wouldn’t they?
    Well to be fair they're getting on a bit, they may lose but bet they score a couple of goals 
    The biggest problem would not be the fact that the modern team would be fitter, stronger, faster and more technically adept. It would be that the 1947 cup team are all dead.
  • charltonbob
    charltonbob Posts: 8,267
    killerjerrylee said:
    charltonbob said:
    JamesSeed said:
    Richard J said:
    Interesting debate. I agree that football has changed dramatically since I first started watching in the 70's. I am not sure Derek's all round game would fit the modern game. One of the impressive aspects about May is the way he works hard for the team.

    I agree we need to consider which league that they played in when factoring the best player. Take Kevin Lisbie as an example. He was more prolific for the likes of Colchester and Orient partly because he played for them at a lower level. His Charlton career was mainly played at the top level. Therefore I agree Firmani and Leary's achievements deserve to be respected as more impressive.

    Interestingly Hales had a very respectable record at West Ham ( but not Derby ) in the top flight scoring 10 goals in 24 games for a team heading for relegation. Like Clive Mendonca whose top flight career was ruined by injury I believe he would have been successful had he been given more chances in the top flight.
    You’re right, for sure, but you can’t really compare players from bygone eras with modern players. The game has evolved in so many ways. Players are fitter, stronger, faster and more technically adept. They train in different ways and they play on better pitches. 
    But players from the past were at the pinnacle of game as it was played in their day. The cup team of 1947 would of course come a cropper against a Premier League side - it wouldn’t even be a contest - but they were one of the best sides in the land at that time. Far, far more successful in their era than any Charlton side since the Curbs era. But bring them to Sparrow's Lane for a match against the current side and they’d lose heavily. Wouldn’t they?
    Well to be fair they're getting on a bit, they may lose but bet they score a couple of goals 
    The biggest problem would not be the fact that the modern team would be fitter, stronger, faster and more technically adept. It would be that the 1947 cup team are all dead.
    Yes I know (all of them ?) but I didn't want to put that in what was a jokey comment
  • Addick Addict
    Addick Addict Posts: 39,810
    I recall having a massive argument with my Dad about the difference in ability between footballers of his generation and those of my time. This disagreement revolved around us watching together old footage of the famous 1960 Real Madrid v Eintracht Frankfurt (7-3) European Cup Final. Like Puskas, my Dad used to play football in Hungary and fled from there in 1956 so that particular match was rather close to his heart for obvious reasons. "Did you see that bit of skill?" he would say, to which I would reply "yes but did you see the space he had?".

    We never talked about that game again but, perhaps as slightly more mature individual now (well maybe only slightly), I would tend to agree that it is impossible to compare players from totally different eras. Perhaps best just to accept that they were the best of their time. 
  • cafcforever
    cafcforever Posts: 215
    https://apple.news/A7xYlCHQuQA-XPf7QE8u_Dg

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