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Andy Scott Appointed Technical Director - Gone Feb 2025 (p35)
Comments
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Quite rightly, Scott is drawing a lot of criticism and, apart from some silly personal abuse, it is valid and evidence based.
He has two key roles in my eyes.
One is to build and oversee the infrastructure of a successful football club. That includes setting up systems and building teams of staff who make us better at what we do than our competition.
Most of that will happen out of sight of most of us, other than appointments such as the new Head of Performance and the Men's first team manager.
Too early to really comment on the Head of Performance or the other work he has spoken about such as the recruitment team but clearly the previous managerial appointments were a disaster.
The appointment of Jones is, in my eyes at least, a real positive but does seem to indicate a change in direction, a change in structure (manager not coach) and perhaps in funding as I assume Jones earns more than Appleton or Holden. Jones was also immediately allowed to bring in his own very experienced coach in Paul Hart where as Holden never did and Appleton had to wait a long time for O'Donnell.
Will Jones be a success in the short term in keeping us up and long term by getting us into the championship? Far too early to say. He has had to come in as a fire fighter rather than having an early start on rebuilding for next season.
The other key role is player recruitment. Very hard to make any case that that has been a success.
People could argue we have potential in some of the players, and I'd agree, who have come in but potential doesn't win many points.
The loan signings in particular have failed to impact on the results.
The squad is also still missing a dominant centre half, a creative midfielder, a decent winger and a hold up centre forward.
Other than perhaps the winger, who is maybe not needed in a 3-5-2, these gaps were obvious but the wrong choices were made in loaning Fiorini and Ladapo who aren't fit and in Freddie's case, not a hold up centre forward.
So I think we nearly all agree Scott is at fault.
But is it only Scott?
We do appear to have a lot of cooks trying to make our broth. Lenegan and Methven were both involved in appointing Appleton. Lenegan was named checked in the announcement when MA took the reins.
And Methven seems very unlikely to have suddenly adopted a hands off approach when he was so very heavily involved, and is still eagerly trying to manage the narrative via his "leaks".
So the my question isn't "Is Scott to blame?" because I think the answer to that is clear but "How much of blame lies with Scott and how much with others?"
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Agreed mate and he might not have got himself injured (shoulder) like he did with Port Vale against Pompey, now finding himself out of action for the next ten weeks.DDOUBLEE said:
Ikpeazu would have fit this perfectly, but 90% moaned about signing him as he didn't score enough goals in favour of Freddie Ladapo (While it is early) who has been dreadful in every appearance he's made so far...Leuth said:Lack of a hold-up forward has been the worst thing about our team this season, closely followed by the wing-backs0 -
I'm totally baffled by Andy Scott:
How could he have got so many decisions wrong ?
He had a decent CV before he turned up at Charlton, despite being sacked by Forest after the bringing in of a whole new squad for the Premier.
How can he lose all his football acumen built up over 3 decades as Player, coach, Manager, Technical director, head of recruitment.
I really thought he would take this club forward; not to the brink of relegation.
As we all know Cafc have been on the slide for a number of years which is well documented but I thought we would plateau under Scott and then kick on again.
Nathan Jones getting a long Contract may be our last hope but we don't want him to rebuilt from the 4th tier.
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How low can Scott take us before you recognize he is a disaster?Crusty54 said:Don’t understand why over the years there has to be a whipping boy on this forum.We don’t know the ins and outs of the running of the club. Players don’t have to accept new contracts.Could we just get behind everyone who is at the club at the moment to hopefully avoid relegation.
Relegation to L2 or perhaps relegation to non-league?19 -
Nathan Jones is responsible for the Ramsay & Small signings.alburyaddick said:Andy Scott has proved to be utterly useless. One of the problems is that he has a perception that players who cant get in Championship sides must be good enough for league 1. When we signed Edun - my Blackburn supporting mate said he was useless. When we signed Bakinson from bottom of the Championship Sheffield Weds, my mate who is supporter had never heard of him. Gillesphey & Ladapo don’t look good enough and nor does REG. Coventry is OK but we didn’t need him because we had George in that position.
The only bright spark in my book is that my Harrogate supporting mate texted me immediately to say that Ramsey was their best player. He’s the guy who has not started yet because T Watson is playing there ?1 -
The single biggest problem I have re Scott (assuming it is true, which @Henry Irving.above seems to believe) is that he apparently has been allowed to dictate that the team, and indeed the whole club, is based around 3-5-2.I think that to make such a rigid decision is ridiculous, whatever the formation. If a manager wants to make it his core formation for a given season, fine. Then he will be judged on the outcome. But for somebody else to decide that, meaning that any incoming manager has to accept it, that’s just a recipe for trouble. I don’t care if thats how they do it at Citeh or Real Madrid. It doesnt make any sense at all in Division Three.18
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Is there any evidence for this beyond conjecture? Only, supposedly Alfie May was actually a Dean Holden signing. And then Lloyd Jones was a Steve Gallen effort. And Coventry was personally negotiated by Appleton in his parents’ living room. Now these two are signed by Nathan Jones on 2 days notice.Covered End said:
Nathan Jones is responsible for the Ramsay & Small signings.alburyaddick said:Andy Scott has proved to be utterly useless. One of the problems is that he has a perception that players who cant get in Championship sides must be good enough for league 1. When we signed Edun - my Blackburn supporting mate said he was useless. When we signed Bakinson from bottom of the Championship Sheffield Weds, my mate who is supporter had never heard of him. Gillesphey & Ladapo don’t look good enough and nor does REG. Coventry is OK but we didn’t need him because we had George in that position.
The only bright spark in my book is that my Harrogate supporting mate texted me immediately to say that Ramsey was their best player. He’s the guy who has not started yet because T Watson is playing there ?But at the same time, Andy Scott is apparently on a power trip and can’t handle being challenged by anyone… Which is it? Because it’s starting to look like he’s letting anyone have a go at recruitment.3 -
Agree with every word of this.Henry Irving said:Quite rightly, Scott is drawing a lot of criticism and, apart from some silly personal abuse, it is valid and evidence based.
He has two key roles in my eyes.
One is to build and oversee the infrastructure of a successful football club. That includes setting up systems and building teams of staff who make us better at what we do than our competition.
Most of that will happen out of sight of most of us, other than appointments such as the new Head of Performance and the Men's first team manager.
Too early to really comment on the Head of Performance or the other work he has spoked about such as the recruitment team but clearly the previous managerial appointments were a disaster.
The appointment of Jones is, in my eyes at least, a real positive but does seem to indicate a change in direction, a change in structure (manager not coach) and perhaps in funding as I assume Jones earns more than Appleton or Holden. Jones was also immediately allowed to bring in his own very experienced coach in Paul Hart where are Holden never did and Appleton had to wait a long time for O'Donnell.
Will Jones be a success in the short term in keeping us up and long term by getting us into the championship? Far too early to say. He has had to come in as a fire fighter rather than having an early start on rebuilding for next season.
The other key role is player recruitment. Very hard to make any case that that has been a success.
People could argue we have potential in some of the players, and I'd agree, who have come in but potential doesn't win many points.
The loan signings in particular have failed to impact on the results.
The squad is also still missing a dominant centre half, a creative midfielder, a decent winger and a hold up centre forward.
Other than perhaps the winger, who is maybe not needed in a 3-5-2, these gaps were obvious but the wrong choices were made in loaning Fiorini and Ladapo who aren't fit and in Freddie's case, not a hold up centre forward.
So I think we nearly all agree Scott is at fault.
But is it only Scott?
We do appear to have a lot of cooks trying to make our broth. Lenegan and Methven were both involved in appointing Appleton. Lenegan was named checked in the announcement when MA took the reins.
And Methven seems very unlikely to have suddenly adopted a hands off approach when he was so very heavily involved, and is still eagerly trying to manage the narrative via his "leaks".
So the my question isn't "Is Scott to blame?" because I think the answer to that is clear but "How much of blame lies with Scott and how much with others?"1 -
Ikpeazu dislocated his shoulder and is out until April/perhaps the season (just saying).DDOUBLEE said:
Ikpeazu would have fit this perfectly, but 90% moaned about signing him as he didn't score enough goals in favour of Freddie Ladapo (While it is early) who has been dreadful in every appearance he's made so far...Leuth said:Lack of a hold-up forward has been the worst thing about our team this season, closely followed by the wing-backs1 -
So he would fit perfectly then....Covered End said:
Ikpeazu dislocated his shoulder and is out until April/perhaps the season (just saying).DDOUBLEE said:
Ikpeazu would have fit this perfectly, but 90% moaned about signing him as he didn't score enough goals in favour of Freddie Ladapo (While it is early) who has been dreadful in every appearance he's made so far...Leuth said:Lack of a hold-up forward has been the worst thing about our team this season, closely followed by the wing-backs4 - Sponsored links:
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I think Andy Scott has made some real dodgy decisions culminating in the Dobbo fiasco. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him let go. Wouldn’t wish it on anyone but he does seem the common denominator in all the bad dealings that have gone on since last summer. And Jones coming in as Manager and Coach makes him very expendable.6
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I'm struggling to believe that Scott actually saw any/all of these players actually play before signing them.soapboxsam said:I'm totally baffled by Andy Scott:
How could he have got so many decisions wrong ?
He had a decent CV before he turned up at Charlton, despite being sacked by Forest after the bringing in of a whole new squad for the Premier.
How can he lose all his football acumen built up over 3 decades as Player, coach, Manager, Technical director, head of recruitment.
I really thought he would take this club forward; not to the brink of relegation.
As we all know Cafc have been on the slide for a number of years which is well documented but I thought we would plateau under Scott and then kick on again.
Nathan Jones getting a long Contract may be our last hope but we don't want him to rebuilt from the 4th tier.
I mean taking the worst case scenario, anyone can see that Fiorini isn't capable of even playing for 5 minutes.2 -
May was signed before Scott was appointed.hezzla said:
Is there any evidence for this beyond conjecture? Only, supposedly Alfie May was actually a Dean Holden signing. And then Lloyd Jones was a Steve Gallen effort. And Coventry was personally negotiated by Appleton in his parents’ living room. Now these two are signed by Nathan Jones on 2 days notice.Covered End said:
Nathan Jones is responsible for the Ramsay & Small signings.alburyaddick said:Andy Scott has proved to be utterly useless. One of the problems is that he has a perception that players who cant get in Championship sides must be good enough for league 1. When we signed Edun - my Blackburn supporting mate said he was useless. When we signed Bakinson from bottom of the Championship Sheffield Weds, my mate who is supporter had never heard of him. Gillesphey & Ladapo don’t look good enough and nor does REG. Coventry is OK but we didn’t need him because we had George in that position.
The only bright spark in my book is that my Harrogate supporting mate texted me immediately to say that Ramsey was their best player. He’s the guy who has not started yet because T Watson is playing there ?But at the same time, Andy Scott is apparently on a power trip and can’t handle being challenged by anyone… Which is it? Because it’s starting to look like he’s letting anyone have a go at recruitment.
Jones I can't remember.
I'm sure I saw a photo of Appleton & Scott in Coventry's living room having tea.
Yes, Jones kind of awkwardly confirmed when asked in today's press conference.
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I think he's fallen in the trap so many do of trying to play expansive entertaining football in league one.PragueAddick said:The single biggest problem I have re Scott (assuming it is true, which @Henry Irving.above seems to believe) is that he apparently has been allowed to dictate that the team, and indeed the whole club, is based around 3-5-2.I think that to make such a rigid decision is ridiculous, whatever the formation. If a manager wants to make it his core formation for a given season, fine. Then he will be judged on the outcome. But for somebody else to decide that, meaning that any incoming manager has to accept it, that’s just a recipe for trouble. I don’t care if thats how they do it at Citeh or Real Madrid. It doesnt make any sense at all in Division Three.
i) It's very difficult
ii) Nobody really gives a shit about style in this league.
Don't ever concede. Score the odd goal now and again and we'll find ourselves there or there abouts. The pretty stuff can wait.4 -
I miss Bonne 😬SELR_addicks said:Is that the Inniss currently playing his trade at the bottom of League Two?
It can be true that the player wasn't good enough AND the replacements were just as bad.
It's something that is ongoing with Charlton. We 'miss' bad players because we fail to recruit good ones.0 -
Where did you get 90% from? My recollection was that he was the type of player we needed and he was worth a short term contract.DDOUBLEE said:
Ikpeazu would have fit this perfectly, but 90% moaned about signing him as he didn't score enough goals in favour of Freddie Ladapo (While it is early) who has been dreadful in every appearance he's made so far...Leuth said:Lack of a hold-up forward has been the worst thing about our team this season, closely followed by the wing-backs1 -
A lot of fans in general were against this signing, didn't know he was now injured thoughTodds_right_hook said:
Where did you get 90% from? My recollection was that he was the type of player we needed and he was worth a short term contract.DDOUBLEE said:
Ikpeazu would have fit this perfectly, but 90% moaned about signing him as he didn't score enough goals in favour of Freddie Ladapo (While it is early) who has been dreadful in every appearance he's made so far...Leuth said:Lack of a hold-up forward has been the worst thing about our team this season, closely followed by the wing-backs0 -
Go to Cambridge away, a good chance for a ‘catch up’Todds_right_hook said:
I miss Bonne 😬SELR_addicks said:Is that the Inniss currently playing his trade at the bottom of League Two?
It can be true that the player wasn't good enough AND the replacements were just as bad.
It's something that is ongoing with Charlton. We 'miss' bad players because we fail to recruit good ones.0 -
I liked what NJ said today........ something along the lines of setting up to get the best out of the players he's got....... maybe Appleton was toeing the party line too much for his own good by trying to get the players to play the best 3-5-2 they could rather than looking at what they're capable of and setting up for that........ particularly when he lost those key players through the pre-Christmas period and he was left with a few second stringers.PragueAddick said:The single biggest problem I have re Scott (assuming it is true, which @Henry Irving.above seems to believe) is that he apparently has been allowed to dictate that the team, and indeed the whole club, is based around 3-5-2.I think that to make such a rigid decision is ridiculous, whatever the formation. If a manager wants to make it his core formation for a given season, fine. Then he will be judged on the outcome. But for somebody else to decide that, meaning that any incoming manager has to accept it, that’s just a recipe for trouble. I don’t care if thats how they do it at Citeh or Real Madrid. It doesnt make any sense at all in Division Three.
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I think he may have stumbled upon Martins black boxCovered End said:
I'm struggling to believe that Scott actually saw any/all of these players actually play before signing them.soapboxsam said:I'm totally baffled by Andy Scott:
How could he have got so many decisions wrong ?
He had a decent CV before he turned up at Charlton, despite being sacked by Forest after the bringing in of a whole new squad for the Premier.
How can he lose all his football acumen built up over 3 decades as Player, coach, Manager, Technical director, head of recruitment.
I really thought he would take this club forward; not to the brink of relegation.
As we all know Cafc have been on the slide for a number of years which is well documented but I thought we would plateau under Scott and then kick on again.
Nathan Jones getting a long Contract may be our last hope but we don't want him to rebuilt from the 4th tier.
I mean taking the worst case scenario, anyone can see that Fiorini isn't capable of even playing for 5 minutes.4 - Sponsored links:
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As someone already pointed out, this is a sliding doors moment.Covered End said:
Ikpeazu dislocated his shoulder and is out until April/perhaps the season (just saying).DDOUBLEE said:
Ikpeazu would have fit this perfectly, but 90% moaned about signing him as he didn't score enough goals in favour of Freddie Ladapo (While it is early) who has been dreadful in every appearance he's made so far...Leuth said:Lack of a hold-up forward has been the worst thing about our team this season, closely followed by the wing-backsThat injury may never have happened if we’d signed him…with us it would’ve been both shoulders!! 🙄🤦🏻♂️11 -
Still here then? Wonder how long his charmed oay day will last. As far as i can tell he is a reliable bellweather.Ask Andy Scott what to do, and then do the opposite. Cant be worse than following his advice.1
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I agree with all that has been said, but only thing I would say, Lenegan has a lot more say than was lead to believe.. I would say more so than Charlie! And that hasn't been leaked or anything like that.. But he is the key decision maker for GFP, which ultimately is who Scott takes orders from.Henry Irving said:Quite rightly, Scott is drawing a lot of criticism and, apart from some silly personal abuse, it is valid and evidence based.
He has two key roles in my eyes.
One is to build and oversee the infrastructure of a successful football club. That includes setting up systems and building teams of staff who make us better at what we do than our competition.
Most of that will happen out of sight of most of us, other than appointments such as the new Head of Performance and the Men's first team manager.
Too early to really comment on the Head of Performance or the other work he has spoken about such as the recruitment team but clearly the previous managerial appointments were a disaster.
The appointment of Jones is, in my eyes at least, a real positive but does seem to indicate a change in direction, a change in structure (manager not coach) and perhaps in funding as I assume Jones earns more than Appleton or Holden. Jones was also immediately allowed to bring in his own very experienced coach in Paul Hart where as Holden never did and Appleton had to wait a long time for O'Donnell.
Will Jones be a success in the short term in keeping us up and long term by getting us into the championship? Far too early to say. He has had to come in as a fire fighter rather than having an early start on rebuilding for next season.
The other key role is player recruitment. Very hard to make any case that that has been a success.
People could argue we have potential in some of the players, and I'd agree, who have come in but potential doesn't win many points.
The loan signings in particular have failed to impact on the results.
The squad is also still missing a dominant centre half, a creative midfielder, a decent winger and a hold up centre forward.
Other than perhaps the winger, who is maybe not needed in a 3-5-2, these gaps were obvious but the wrong choices were made in loaning Fiorini and Ladapo who aren't fit and in Freddie's case, not a hold up centre forward.
So I think we nearly all agree Scott is at fault.
But is it only Scott?
We do appear to have a lot of cooks trying to make our broth. Lenegan and Methven were both involved in appointing Appleton. Lenegan was named checked in the announcement when MA took the reins.
And Methven seems very unlikely to have suddenly adopted a hands off approach when he was so very heavily involved, and is still eagerly trying to manage the narrative via his "leaks".
So the my question isn't "Is Scott to blame?" because I think the answer to that is clear but "How much of blame lies with Scott and how much with others?"
You are right, it isn't just Scott who is to blame, as a collective they are.. But Lenegan certainly has a huge influence, if not the final say on a lot of stuff!4 -
Would make sense as it seemed he was pushing Appleton.DubaiCAFC said:
I agree with all that has been said, but only thing I would say, Lenegan has a lot more say than was lead to believe.. I would say more so than Charlie! And that hasn't been leaked or anything like that.. But he is the key decision maker for GFP, which ultimately is who Scott takes orders from.Henry Irving said:Quite rightly, Scott is drawing a lot of criticism and, apart from some silly personal abuse, it is valid and evidence based.
He has two key roles in my eyes.
One is to build and oversee the infrastructure of a successful football club. That includes setting up systems and building teams of staff who make us better at what we do than our competition.
Most of that will happen out of sight of most of us, other than appointments such as the new Head of Performance and the Men's first team manager.
Too early to really comment on the Head of Performance or the other work he has spoken about such as the recruitment team but clearly the previous managerial appointments were a disaster.
The appointment of Jones is, in my eyes at least, a real positive but does seem to indicate a change in direction, a change in structure (manager not coach) and perhaps in funding as I assume Jones earns more than Appleton or Holden. Jones was also immediately allowed to bring in his own very experienced coach in Paul Hart where as Holden never did and Appleton had to wait a long time for O'Donnell.
Will Jones be a success in the short term in keeping us up and long term by getting us into the championship? Far too early to say. He has had to come in as a fire fighter rather than having an early start on rebuilding for next season.
The other key role is player recruitment. Very hard to make any case that that has been a success.
People could argue we have potential in some of the players, and I'd agree, who have come in but potential doesn't win many points.
The loan signings in particular have failed to impact on the results.
The squad is also still missing a dominant centre half, a creative midfielder, a decent winger and a hold up centre forward.
Other than perhaps the winger, who is maybe not needed in a 3-5-2, these gaps were obvious but the wrong choices were made in loaning Fiorini and Ladapo who aren't fit and in Freddie's case, not a hold up centre forward.
So I think we nearly all agree Scott is at fault.
But is it only Scott?
We do appear to have a lot of cooks trying to make our broth. Lenegan and Methven were both involved in appointing Appleton. Lenegan was named checked in the announcement when MA took the reins.
And Methven seems very unlikely to have suddenly adopted a hands off approach when he was so very heavily involved, and is still eagerly trying to manage the narrative via his "leaks".
So the my question isn't "Is Scott to blame?" because I think the answer to that is clear but "How much of blame lies with Scott and how much with others?"
You are right, it isn't just Scott who is to blame, as a collective they are.. But Lenegan certainly has a huge influence, if not the final say on a lot of stuff!0 -
My guess is that his role has changed now that Jones has come in. Scott will have less to do with player identification but we still need someone to handle negotiations. What's important is he does that negotiations based on what Jones wants. He can also continue to improve the non playing staff, mainly in the recruitment team for now but depending on what Will Abott says maybe physios/sports scientists too. Really Scott should be a link between the board and the specialists (Jones, Abott, Avery) and help them carry out what they want3
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Have we ever heard publicly from Lenagan if he has so much say on things? Seems a bit odd to have a Sporting Director and a Technical Director as I'd have thought there would have been quite a bit of crossover in terms of who's responsible for what.
Hopefully NJ being appointed as manager and not head coach takes out a lot of the ambiguity surrounding who's responsible for what.1 -
We haven’t but I guess that’s because Lenegan works for GFP not CAFC. Still think that in the next 5 years GFP will buy a team somewhere like Holland or a lower division team in France or Spain, maybe even Asia given the ownership connection. Lenegan will then oversee the sporting operation of the whole group to make sure strategy is similar.MarcusH26 said:Have we ever heard publicly from Lenagan if he has so much say on things? Seems a bit odd to have a Sporting Director and a Technical Director as I'd have thought there would have been quite a bit of crossover in terms of who's responsible for what.
Hopefully NJ being appointed as manager and not head coach takes out a lot of the ambiguity surrounding who's responsible for what.
Roland spectacularly failed with the multi club model so CAFC fans are rightfully sceptical but it can work when done correct. CAFC need to be a lot more successful for it to work though, you need to be top end Championship minimum0 -
I wouldn't say that is too far from the mark, and I believe the direction they would go, but Charlton being the flagship of it. Charlie has been the public figure, but is he the brains behind it and the power, I am not so sure!fenaddick said:
We haven’t but I guess that’s because Lenegan works for GFP not CAFC. Still think that in the next 5 years GFP will buy a team somewhere like Holland or a lower division team in France or Spain, maybe even Asia given the ownership connection. Lenegan will then oversee the sporting operation of the whole group to make sure strategy is similar.MarcusH26 said:Have we ever heard publicly from Lenagan if he has so much say on things? Seems a bit odd to have a Sporting Director and a Technical Director as I'd have thought there would have been quite a bit of crossover in terms of who's responsible for what.
Hopefully NJ being appointed as manager and not head coach takes out a lot of the ambiguity surrounding who's responsible for what.
Roland spectacularly failed with the multi club model so CAFC fans are rightfully sceptical but it can work when done correct. CAFC need to be a lot more successful for it to work though, you need to be top end Championship minimum1 -
Having a set way of playing is for football idiots to drool over. Man City can do it as they have their pick of any player to play in a chosen system. We don't. We have two wing backs who are beyond rubbish and we play a system that relies on them. I mean, you couldn't make it up. The manager needs to look at where our strengths are and indeed our weaknesses and devise the formation around that. I am encouraged that Jones has told them to F Off in regards of losing Dobson and hope stage two is to tell them to F Off about 3-5-2 as it will take us down with the personnel we have. This is actually a fantastic opportunity for him to become a proper manager of this club rather than head coach, irrespective of job titles, due to the desperate situation we are in.4
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Think the term "Techinical Director" is in no way linked to anything Scott does or did, and if the role can be that easily adapted, it kind of suggests to me that it's not a very important role, it's not needed and it's just there to give him a title. With Jones now in place, I personally think Scott will be gone by the start of the next window.
Does a club at our level really need the luxury of a "go between" for the specialists and the board? And if we do, surely that can fall into Rodwells remit. Along with thrashing out player contacts etc. All with the help of an assistant maybe.2
This discussion has been closed.
