George Dobson - Gone to Wrexham p136, farewell message p142

fenaddick said:

PragueAddick said:

fenaddick said:

There are hundreds if not thousands of transfers that happen via pre-contract agreements every summer. I have never seen one fail.

Well that is interesting, but with all due respect I think you need to give us some insight into how you are getting to see them.

And then the detail, like, are most of them signed several months ahead like this one? 

Actually I can think of one involving Charlton. A very notorious one. Joe Gomez. 

I follow a broad range of different clubs and leagues, that's how. They usually get announced a decent chunk in advance. Aaron Ramsey for example signed his in February before moving from Arsenal to Juventus. Speaking of the present a few Scottish teams have made the most of being a different country and have signed players with pre contracts from English teams, most notably Rangers are signing someone from Norwich.


Joe Gomez wasn't a pre-contract agreement, he was bought for a fee which is very different.

Ok fair enough, I wasn’t aware of the extent of such pre-  agreed transfers, which I suppose must be backed by some documentation. I was aware of transfers where the player is loaned back to his existing club for the rest of the season. 

PopIcon said:

Vjacheslav said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

Todds_right_hook said:

Callumcafc said:

Covered_End_Lad said:

Vjacheslav said:

Covered_End_Lad said:

Pre-contracts are generally not binding under English law as they are usually marked 'Subject to Contract'

In this case the contract not only valid by hungarian law, but valid by uefa law too.

This is not a verbal agreement. Id the 'Subject to Contract' contains all of the element of the final contract, also valid by the English law too.

Have you seen the pre-contract that he signed?

Have you seen the picture of him holding up a Hungarian club shirt? I don’t think he does that if he’s not signed something binding.

This is what I don't understand. How binding is a pre contract? He is still under contract with us and can't sign a legally binding contract elsewhere. 

Yes he can, you can a contract with a foreign club once you only have 6 months left of your contract and with 1 month left with another English club.

its legally binding and the players registration will be transferred.

It’s done and dusted, it’s not in anyway a rare situation. 

Yes that is the uefa rule, and that is why the pre contract valid at anywhere including UK, or Hungary.

There will be clauses in the contract. If Dobson breaks his leg on Saturday or suffers a career ending injury, will Fehervar pay his wages for the next three years?

It could just be PR, but reading between the lines, it doesn't sound cut-and-dried yet. 

"He’s our player,” said Jones, when asked by the South London Press about Dobson’s future. “There are opportunities to go to Hungary, and so on, but why would he want to go and leave a fantastic football club? Where he is loved and cared for…and is going to get better.

“With massive respect he has played a lot of League One football. But why not try and be a Championship footballer? Why not try and do what he does in League One, in the Championship? That is his goal. That is what we have to try and make him – change his mentality and hopefully change his life.

“He doesn’t need to go to Hungary to do that. He has an opportunity to do that here. That is what I’ve reiterated to him. It is a wonderful opportunity and a wonderful football club – that’s why I’ve come here.

“I’m proud to be here and I want him to be proud and others to be proud. We’re going to get better and push each other.

“I didn’t want him to leave because I knew he could put in performances like that.

“I think anyone is good enough to play in the Championship if they believe in themselves and do absolutely everything possible. And when they get to the Championship, what is their next goal? I had a group at Luton in League Two and we told them they were going to be Championship. We said if you buy into it and believe in it then you are going to play in the Championship. Then when they got to the Championship we said: ‘Okay, you’re going to play in the Premier League’.

“And now they are League Two players playing in the Premier League. Changing their life – from believing in it, buying into it from sacrificing everything they possibly needed to – and that’s where they are.”

https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/sport/charlton-athletic-boss-jones-wants-george-dobson-to-stay-long-term/

I know that "public version" of that conversation, how to explan NJ to Dobbo to stay on front of the press. But I heard a different one from behind doors.

That is why I think he will left the club at July.

J BLOCK said:

The whole thing is a shambles. Looking forward to hearing the real story of what and how this happened, when it eventually comes out. 

Maybe he can double up with Diego Poyet so we can get all the truths at once 🙂

Sounds to me like "Pre-contract" is just a new phrase banded about by people trying to sound itk.

Surely the word is CONTRACT and the main issue is whether or not Dobbo has signed a CONTRACT which means he'll be at another club after this season. Other issues could be how well worded the CONTRACT is, or if there are any get-out clauses for any party (Dobbo - Other club - Or even possibly Charlton). But can't see any point in arguing about it at the moment because, as someone else has already said, no one on here knows the wording of any CONTRACT or if it's even recognised by anyone anywhere.

As much as I like Dobbo tho, I've personally moved on from this and still feel there's quite a lot to look forward to next term and beyond, with or without him.

PopIcon said:

Vjacheslav said:

PopIcon said:

Vjacheslav said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

Todds_right_hook said:

Callumcafc said:

Covered_End_Lad said:

Vjacheslav said:

Covered_End_Lad said:

Pre-contracts are generally not binding under English law as they are usually marked 'Subject to Contract'

In this case the contract not only valid by hungarian law, but valid by uefa law too.

This is not a verbal agreement. Id the 'Subject to Contract' contains all of the element of the final contract, also valid by the English law too.

Have you seen the pre-contract that he signed?

Have you seen the picture of him holding up a Hungarian club shirt? I don’t think he does that if he’s not signed something binding.

This is what I don't understand. How binding is a pre contract? He is still under contract with us and can't sign a legally binding contract elsewhere. 

Yes he can, you can a contract with a foreign club once you only have 6 months left of your contract and with 1 month left with another English club.

its legally binding and the players registration will be transferred.

It’s done and dusted, it’s not in anyway a rare situation. 

Yes that is the uefa rule, and that is why the pre contract valid at anywhere including UK, or Hungary.

There will be clauses in the contract. If Dobson breaks his leg on Saturday or suffers a career ending injury, will Fehervar pay his wages for the next three years?

It could just be PR, but reading between the lines, it doesn't sound cut-and-dried yet. 

"He’s our player,” said Jones, when asked by the South London Press about Dobson’s future. “There are opportunities to go to Hungary, and so on, but why would he want to go and leave a fantastic football club? Where he is loved and cared for…and is going to get better.

“With massive respect he has played a lot of League One football. But why not try and be a Championship footballer? Why not try and do what he does in League One, in the Championship? That is his goal. That is what we have to try and make him – change his mentality and hopefully change his life.

“He doesn’t need to go to Hungary to do that. He has an opportunity to do that here. That is what I’ve reiterated to him. It is a wonderful opportunity and a wonderful football club – that’s why I’ve come here.

“I’m proud to be here and I want him to be proud and others to be proud. We’re going to get better and push each other.

“I didn’t want him to leave because I knew he could put in performances like that.

“I think anyone is good enough to play in the Championship if they believe in themselves and do absolutely everything possible. And when they get to the Championship, what is their next goal? I had a group at Luton in League Two and we told them they were going to be Championship. We said if you buy into it and believe in it then you are going to play in the Championship. Then when they got to the Championship we said: ‘Okay, you’re going to play in the Premier League’.

“And now they are League Two players playing in the Premier League. Changing their life – from believing in it, buying into it from sacrificing everything they possibly needed to – and that’s where they are.”

https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/sport/charlton-athletic-boss-jones-wants-george-dobson-to-stay-long-term/

I know that "public version" of that conversation, how to explan NJ to Dobbo to stay on front of the press. But I heard a different one from behind doors.

That is why I think he will left the club at July.

I'm not saying that you are wrong, but I do expect we'll find out before July. Our season finishes next month, if he's 100% going I expect them to announce it sooner rather than later.

I doubt it, IF Dobson or Charlton are having other ideas the contract runs out the end of June.
However, if Dobson wants to go then there is no reason it cannot be announced the Monday after Wycombe away.

“ In order to avoid similar disputes, clubs and players should exercise caution when entering into pre-contracts, as there is a risk of the parties being bound by the pre-contract at an earlier stage than they intended. A breach of a pre-contract without just cause would entitle the innocent party to compensation, and is likely lead to sporting sanctions being imposed on the party in breach in accordance with Article 17 of FIFA’s Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players. If the parties do not intend to be bound by the terms of the pre-contract, then they should expressly state that the document is not the final contract and that its terms are not intended to be legally binding.”

https://www.blakemorgan.co.uk/the-enforceability-of-pre-contracts-in-football/

"FIFA’s Dispute Resolution Chamber (‘DRC’) has had to determine on a number of occasions whether a pre-contract has binding effect when a dispute between a club and a player has arisen. The DRC has generally held that a pre-contract is binding if it contains essential terms such as the duration of the contract, remuneration, and additional benefits."

CL_Phantom said:

J BLOCK said:

The whole thing is a shambles. Looking forward to hearing the real story of what and how this happened, when it eventually comes out. 

Maybe he can double up with Diego Poyet so we can get all the truths at once 🙂

Don't forget Chris Solly

Todds_right_hook said:

Gribbo said:

Sounds to me like "Pre-contract" is just a new phrase banded about by people trying to sound itk.

Surely the word is CONTRACT and the main issue is whether or not Dobbo has signed a CONTRACT which means he'll be at another club after this season. Other issues could be how well worded the CONTRACT is, or if there are any get-out clauses for any party (Dobbo - Other club - Or even possibly Charlton). But can't see any point in arguing about it at the moment because, as someone else has already said, no one on here knows the wording of any CONTRACT or if it's even recognised by anyone anywhere.

As much as I like Dobbo tho, I've personally moved on from this and still feel there's quite a lot to look forward to next term and beyond, with or without him.

Except he is under CONTRACT at Charlton and cannot sign another CONTRACT elsewhere, hence him signing a PRE CONTRACT.

Yup, which is allowed because he only has less than six months remaining on his Charlton contract 

killerandflash said:

golfaddick said:

killerandflash said:

fenaddick said:

golfaddick said:

Football contracts are not worth a light. Ask Lyle Talyor. He knows all about downing tools & not playing.

Seeing as everyone on here keep saying (about Taylor and other "head turned" players such as CBT) that you cant keep unhappy players then all Dobbo has to do from day one in Hungary in to not train & refuse to play. By August deadline day he'll be on the last plane back home.

Or is that not how it works....🤔.

Actually I think Taylor is a good example of them not being flimsy. His contract ran out before the extended COVID season would have finished and we couldn’t force him to play longer. I disagree with what he did but it’s a good example of his contract being followed. 

Agreed. Football contracts here generally run until the end of June, as by then the domestic season will be complete. 2019/20 because of a Covid was a complete one off, running into July.

The spirit of Taylor's contract was that it ran until the season had finished, as just about everything in domestic about football operates within seasons and half seasons, but the strict wording said until the end of June, so legally he was entitled not to play the final 6 games, even if morally it stank.

I'm not wanting to get into the "was he right/he's a snake" arguement all over again but for the record there were 3 games before the end of June that Taylor refused to play in. He was still under contract at that time. I can (sort of) understand the arguement that a player has the right not to play after the end of his contract, but in the summer of 2020 Taylor basically went on unofficial strike and did not play matches when he was still contracted to the club.

And for that I will never forgive him.

Indeed, I'm not normally someone to hold a grudge against players moving on, but this is an exception.

Modern football and sport in general is in a slight mess over such situations where a player "isn't in the right frame of mind to play", as there's a tricky balance to be struck between the player's welfare (e.g. mental health or personal issues) and them taking the piss. In the old days you'd be expected to play, even if your wife was giving birth or a close relative had died that morning, which was too extreme the other way.

Carl Jenkinson played very few games for us once it be known he was going to Arsenal.
Did he refuse to play or was there pressure from Arsenal on him playing?
Taylor told us to f*** off, of course that was wrong, BUT for him this was a life changing move.  I can understand why he did it.

Gribbo said:

Todds_right_hook said:

Gribbo said:

Sounds to me like "Pre-contract" is just a new phrase banded about by people trying to sound itk.

Surely the word is CONTRACT and the main issue is whether or not Dobbo has signed a CONTRACT which means he'll be at another club after this season. Other issues could be how well worded the CONTRACT is, or if there are any get-out clauses for any party (Dobbo - Other club - Or even possibly Charlton). But can't see any point in arguing about it at the moment because, as someone else has already said, no one on here knows the wording of any CONTRACT or if it's even recognised by anyone anywhere.

As much as I like Dobbo tho, I've personally moved on from this and still feel there's quite a lot to look forward to next term and beyond, with or without him.

Except he is under CONTRACT at Charlton and cannot sign another CONTRACT elsewhere, hence him signing a PRE CONTRACT.

So surely that says a "pre-contract" ain't worth a w**k and confirms that it's a dreamt up idea, if it's being signed while under CONTRACT for another club. And in which case, both parties (Dobbo and other club) should've waited and signed conventional CONTRACTS, like everyone else does, at the right time.

Personally still not sure how him jumping the gun and prancing around for photos in another clubs shirt, while still a Charlton player sits with me, and I was initially a big fan of his as soon as he came in.

Your final paragraph is a reminder of Paul Ince being photographed in a United shirt whilst he was still playing for West Ham.

Gribbo said:

stonemuse said:

Todds_right_hook said:

Gribbo said:

Sounds to me like "Pre-contract" is just a new phrase banded about by people trying to sound itk.

Surely the word is CONTRACT and the main issue is whether or not Dobbo has signed a CONTRACT which means he'll be at another club after this season. Other issues could be how well worded the CONTRACT is, or if there are any get-out clauses for any party (Dobbo - Other club - Or even possibly Charlton). But can't see any point in arguing about it at the moment because, as someone else has already said, no one on here knows the wording of any CONTRACT or if it's even recognised by anyone anywhere.

As much as I like Dobbo tho, I've personally moved on from this and still feel there's quite a lot to look forward to next term and beyond, with or without him.

Except he is under CONTRACT at Charlton and cannot sign another CONTRACT elsewhere, hence him signing a PRE CONTRACT.

Yup, which is allowed because he only has less than six months remaining on his Charlton contract 

So in the last six months of a contract, you can sign a bit of paper with another club (call it what you will - contract / pre-contract). Assume you can leave at that time and get your photo taken in the new clubs shirt?

Genuine question

Shit times if that is the case....

Only if you’re signing a pre-contract with a club outside of England.