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Sidcup: Hundreds of motorists fined over A20 road sign error
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Or you could just not speed…golfaddick said:
You could get off the ban if you can show that being without your vehicle could mean "undue hardship" to your family. So, if you family rely on you as the breadwinner & not having the use of your vehicle meant that you couldn't work then it is possible that you wouldn't get banned but just a fine.Boom said:
Can’t you do a course for one of them so don’t get 3 points for that one?palarsehater said:unfortunately for me got clocked 3 times in essex the other week so looking at 9 points and already have 3 on licence was caught doing
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in a 30How long is a ban when you hit 12 points?3 -
If you got caught speeding when Appleton was charge, just say it the only way you could getting points, I’m sure the judge will understand.3
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I was in an industrial area of tilbury its the 1st private road in Britain to have cameras fitted. as a money making scheme and to deter boy racers.Rob7Lee said:
Unlikely to be able to do a course as already had 3 points, the tickets would advise if you can though.Boom said:
Can’t you do a course for one of them so don’t get 3 points for that one?palarsehater said:unfortunately for me got clocked 3 times in essex the other week so looking at 9 points and already have 3 on licence was caught doing
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in a 30How long is a ban when you hit 12 points?
Ban is usually a minimum of 6 months but can be up to 2 years. You have to show exceptional hardship to escape the ban, and that's very very rare. Even loss of employment is not in itself considered exceptional hardship.
Whilst it may seem harsh, and not trying to have a dig @palarsehater, but three tickets, the lowest of which was 20% over the limit, the worst being over 50%, 41mph to 50mph in a 30 would come under a Band B fine and sadly that usually means 4 penalty points and likely 100% of weekly wage and can also come in itself with a 28 day ban. So the last two are likely 2 weeks wages and 8 points.
There are three other things taken into account, driving conditions (i.e. were they severe to mean you should have been driving lower than the limit), density of the area (prey god you weren't near a school), and the timing v previous convictions.
Depending on those courts can increase the fines to up to 700% of weekly wage (think it maxes out at £2,500).
I wish you luck, but keep that right foot off the gas pedal!
I drive around 20,000 miles a year for work. and have 1 offence in 3 years.
oh well another proper criminal off the streets and that.
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they are new camerasFortune 82nd Minute said:
Just out of interest, static speed camera or mobile van?palarsehater said:unfortunately for me got clocked 3 times in essex the other week so looking at 9 points and already have 3 on licence was caught doing
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in a 30Jenoptik has installed an average speed camera enforcement scheme to make roads safer at the huge DP World logistics park at the London Gateway port in south Essex.
It is the first time an average speed scheme has been installed on private roads. Offences will be enforced by Essex Police as they would on any other road. Under the Road Traffic Act 1984, the private network is still subject to all traffic laws because roads are accessible to the public.
The owners of the site turned to Jenoptik to deliver the safety solution after a number of incidents on its roads due to speeding, both by members of the public using the roads as a racetrack, and staff at businesses based there not adhering to the limits.
16 Jenoptik Specs3 Vector Cameras have been installed to cover three main routes across the site – the 40mph Port Access Road, the 30mph Ocean Boulevard and Atlantic Avenue routes within the logistics park. The cameras have been installed to the existing street lighting columns, which means costs have been minimised. The enforced limits have been applied with Traffic Regulation Orders and signing checked to ensure they are legally enforceable. Penalties will be the same as for any other police-enforced road.
luckily we have a pretty good legal team so hopefully i can get away with it and less money goes into any policing or government chests to waste on nonsical behaviours and silly cameras.
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Driving is no fun any more.I don’t mean you can no longer drive in an unsafe way I mean you can be penalised harshly for technical and minor transgressions eg 2 wheels in a yellow box junction obstructing no one, straying modestly over 20mph on a deserted road etc.
The fines seem larger than ‘criminals’ get for shoplifting and the like. Probably an unfair perception but it’s what I feel.10 -
valleynick66 said:Driving is no fun any more.I don’t mean you can no longer drive in an unsafe way I mean you can be penalised harshly for technical and minor transgressions eg 2 wheels in a yellow box junction obstructing no one, straying modestly over 20mph on a deserted road etc.
The fines seem larger than ‘criminals’ get for shoplifting and the like. Probably an unfair perception but it’s what I feel.
I got caught doing 26mph on Whitefoot Lane dual carriageway shortly after the speed camera was installed. Cost me a touch over £100 and 3 hours in a drivers awareness course.
I saw a fella breaking into cars outside my house a couple of years ago and chased him up the road, catching him. Only when I caught him did I think it was probably stupid as he could have had a knife etc. anyway, I tipped him onto the floor and called the police who turned up 45mins later. He had a load of sunglasses and other stollen stuff on him (he tried to give it to me to let him go!). The police wrote to me to say he was taken to court, found guilty, fined £28 and let go.
So your comment is correct.17 -
You can shoplift up to £200 and the police won't attend for less.valleynick66 said:Driving is no fun any more.I don’t mean you can no longer drive in an unsafe way I mean you can be penalised harshly for technical and minor transgressions eg 2 wheels in a yellow box junction obstructing no one, straying modestly over 20mph on a deserted road etc.
The fines seem larger than ‘criminals’ get for shoplifting and the like. Probably an unfair perception but it’s what I feel.
Shoplifting is rife even in "decent" areas like Bromley & Cheltenham.
It's a national disgrace.7 -
That's life nowadays unfortunately. I've got a course in April because I done a uturn on a Sunday morning with barely anyone around. Nobody was inconvenienced by my uturn.Covered End said:
You can shoplift up to £200 and the police won't attend for less.valleynick66 said:Driving is no fun any more.I don’t mean you can no longer drive in an unsafe way I mean you can be penalised harshly for technical and minor transgressions eg 2 wheels in a yellow box junction obstructing no one, straying modestly over 20mph on a deserted road etc.
The fines seem larger than ‘criminals’ get for shoplifting and the like. Probably an unfair perception but it’s what I feel.
Shoplifting is rife even in "decent" areas like Bromley & Cheltenham.
It's a national disgrace.
In pretty much the same spot today I see the usual little rats on bikes with faces covered looking for their next victim to rob in broad daylight.3 -
Recently had a pair of sunglasses nicked from my car, if you see him again, can you give him a swift penalty kick in the nuts please, thank you.Athletico Charlton said:valleynick66 said:Driving is no fun any more.I don’t mean you can no longer drive in an unsafe way I mean you can be penalised harshly for technical and minor transgressions eg 2 wheels in a yellow box junction obstructing no one, straying modestly over 20mph on a deserted road etc.
The fines seem larger than ‘criminals’ get for shoplifting and the like. Probably an unfair perception but it’s what I feel.
I got caught doing 26mph on Whitefoot Lane dual carriageway shortly after the speed camera was installed. Cost me a touch over £100 and 3 hours in a drivers awareness course.
I saw a fella breaking into cars outside my house a couple of years ago and chased him up the road, catching him. Only when I caught him did I think it was probably stupid as he could have had a knife etc. anyway, I tipped him onto the floor and called the police who turned up 45mins later. He had a load of sunglasses and other stollen stuff on him (he tried to give it to me to let him go!). The police wrote to me to say he was taken to court, found guilty, fined £28 and let go.
So your comment is correct.1 -
This.valleynick66 said:Driving is no fun any more.I don’t mean you can no longer drive in an unsafe way I mean you can be penalised harshly for technical and minor transgressions eg 2 wheels in a yellow box junction obstructing no one, straying modestly over 20mph on a deserted road etc.
The fines seem larger than ‘criminals’ get for shoplifting and the like. Probably an unfair perception but it’s what I feel.
I was caught once before on the A13 near the Blackwall Tunnell. A fine of £60. My transgression....having my rear tyres in a yellow box junction. Lights changed quicker than I had expected & there was not enough room for me to get through it. Not blocking any traffic & in it for a minute or so.
From what I see on various "fly on the wall" police & crime tv shows people get let off with multiple incidents of theft, shop lifting, illegal drug use etc etc ad nuseum.
Car drivers are very easy targets.10 - Sponsored links:
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Rear wheels in a box junction? You nasty bastardgolfaddick said:
This.valleynick66 said:Driving is no fun any more.I don’t mean you can no longer drive in an unsafe way I mean you can be penalised harshly for technical and minor transgressions eg 2 wheels in a yellow box junction obstructing no one, straying modestly over 20mph on a deserted road etc.
The fines seem larger than ‘criminals’ get for shoplifting and the like. Probably an unfair perception but it’s what I feel.
I was caught once before on the A13 near the Blackwall Tunnell. A fine of £60. My transgression....having my rear tyres in a yellow box junction. Lights changed quicker than I had expected & there was not enough room for me to get through it. Not blocking any traffic & in it for a minute or so.
From what I see on various "fly on the wall" police & crime tv shows people get let off with multiple incidents of theft, shop lifting, illegal drug use etc etc ad nuseum.
Car drivers are very easy targets.
My mate’s wife used to work for Bexley council in the CCTV monitoring dept. They were told to concentrate on traffic violations (such as this) to raise revenue, rather than preventing crime and antisocial behaviour1 -
This explains why nearly every junction from Shooter’s Hill to Bexleyheath has a yellow box situated at it.DaveMehmet said:
Rear wheels in a box junction? You nasty bastardgolfaddick said:
This.valleynick66 said:Driving is no fun any more.I don’t mean you can no longer drive in an unsafe way I mean you can be penalised harshly for technical and minor transgressions eg 2 wheels in a yellow box junction obstructing no one, straying modestly over 20mph on a deserted road etc.
The fines seem larger than ‘criminals’ get for shoplifting and the like. Probably an unfair perception but it’s what I feel.
I was caught once before on the A13 near the Blackwall Tunnell. A fine of £60. My transgression....having my rear tyres in a yellow box junction. Lights changed quicker than I had expected & there was not enough room for me to get through it. Not blocking any traffic & in it for a minute or so.
From what I see on various "fly on the wall" police & crime tv shows people get let off with multiple incidents of theft, shop lifting, illegal drug use etc etc ad nuseum.
Car drivers are very easy targets.
My mate’s wife used to work for Bexley council in the CCTV monitoring dept. They were told to concentrate on traffic violations (such as this) to raise revenue, rather than preventing crime and antisocial behaviour0 -
i got to 12 points recently. Went to Bromley Court. Represented myself, told them how a ban would affect me and they gave me a £450 fine instead.
i was 4 weeks away from all existing 9 points coming off (I had a bad few weeks a few years ago😂). The magistrates were decent chaps and listened to me.
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Very true and don't get me started on the state of the roads (they are bloody awful in Hastings) that said glad I don't have to drive in London anymore.valleynick66 said:Driving is no fun any more.I don’t mean you can no longer drive in an unsafe way I mean you can be penalised harshly for technical and minor transgressions eg 2 wheels in a yellow box junction obstructing no one, straying modestly over 20mph on a deserted road etc.
The fines seem larger than ‘criminals’ get for shoplifting and the like. Probably an unfair perception but it’s what I feel.0 -
HastingsRed said:
Very true and don't get me started on the state of the roads (they are bloody awful in Hastings) that said glad I don't have to drive in London anymore.valleynick66 said:Driving is no fun any more.I don’t mean you can no longer drive in an unsafe way I mean you can be penalised harshly for technical and minor transgressions eg 2 wheels in a yellow box junction obstructing no one, straying modestly over 20mph on a deserted road etc.
The fines seem larger than ‘criminals’ get for shoplifting and the like. Probably an unfair perception but it’s what I feel.
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Asking for a friend?Boom said:
Can’t you do a course for one of them so don’t get 3 points for that one?palarsehater said:unfortunately for me got clocked 3 times in essex the other week so looking at 9 points and already have 3 on licence was caught doing
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in a 30How long is a ban when you hit 12 points?0 -
Think I'll go shoplifting to pay for the finesOff_it said:
Asking for a friend?Boom said:
Can’t you do a course for one of them so don’t get 3 points for that one?palarsehater said:unfortunately for me got clocked 3 times in essex the other week so looking at 9 points and already have 3 on licence was caught doing
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in a 30How long is a ban when you hit 12 points?9 -
To be honest at them speeds in a 30 spesh the last 2..deserves what he gets…🤷♂️Boom said:
Can’t you do a course for one of them so don’t get 3 points for that one?palarsehater said:unfortunately for me got clocked 3 times in essex the other week so looking at 9 points and already have 3 on licence was caught doing
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in a 30How long is a ban when you hit 12 points?0 -
It’s the arterial road in an industrial area where there are no houses or pedestrians. The area was 40mph until 2 months ago.NorthheathAddick said:
To be honest at them speeds in a 30 spesh the last 2..deserves what he gets…🤷♂️Boom said:
Can’t you do a course for one of them so don’t get 3 points for that one?palarsehater said:unfortunately for me got clocked 3 times in essex the other week so looking at 9 points and already have 3 on licence was caught doing
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in a 30How long is a ban when you hit 12 points?So see what happens0 -
As long as you remember the golden rules this time - it's about getting stuff that's small enough to carry or go in your pocket and has a decent resale value.Boom said:
Think I'll go shoplifting to pay for the finesOff_it said:
Asking for a friend?Boom said:
Can’t you do a course for one of them so don’t get 3 points for that one?palarsehater said:unfortunately for me got clocked 3 times in essex the other week so looking at 9 points and already have 3 on licence was caught doing
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in a 30How long is a ban when you hit 12 points?
Don't try walking out with patio furniture again.2 - Sponsored links:
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Yes, in some areas it appears to be more a fund raising exercise, than for safety reasons.DaveMehmet said:
Rear wheels in a box junction? You nasty bastardgolfaddick said:
This.valleynick66 said:Driving is no fun any more.I don’t mean you can no longer drive in an unsafe way I mean you can be penalised harshly for technical and minor transgressions eg 2 wheels in a yellow box junction obstructing no one, straying modestly over 20mph on a deserted road etc.
The fines seem larger than ‘criminals’ get for shoplifting and the like. Probably an unfair perception but it’s what I feel.
I was caught once before on the A13 near the Blackwall Tunnell. A fine of £60. My transgression....having my rear tyres in a yellow box junction. Lights changed quicker than I had expected & there was not enough room for me to get through it. Not blocking any traffic & in it for a minute or so.
From what I see on various "fly on the wall" police & crime tv shows people get let off with multiple incidents of theft, shop lifting, illegal drug use etc etc ad nuseum.
Car drivers are very easy targets.
My mate’s wife used to work for Bexley council in the CCTV monitoring dept. They were told to concentrate on traffic violations (such as this) to raise revenue, rather than preventing crime and antisocial behaviour
Easy money, innit?
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The councillors claim otherwise naturally.Oggy Red said:
Yes, in some areas it appears to be more a fund raising exercise, than for safety reasons.DaveMehmet said:
Rear wheels in a box junction? You nasty bastardgolfaddick said:
This.valleynick66 said:Driving is no fun any more.I don’t mean you can no longer drive in an unsafe way I mean you can be penalised harshly for technical and minor transgressions eg 2 wheels in a yellow box junction obstructing no one, straying modestly over 20mph on a deserted road etc.
The fines seem larger than ‘criminals’ get for shoplifting and the like. Probably an unfair perception but it’s what I feel.
I was caught once before on the A13 near the Blackwall Tunnell. A fine of £60. My transgression....having my rear tyres in a yellow box junction. Lights changed quicker than I had expected & there was not enough room for me to get through it. Not blocking any traffic & in it for a minute or so.
From what I see on various "fly on the wall" police & crime tv shows people get let off with multiple incidents of theft, shop lifting, illegal drug use etc etc ad nuseum.
Car drivers are very easy targets.
My mate’s wife used to work for Bexley council in the CCTV monitoring dept. They were told to concentrate on traffic violations (such as this) to raise revenue, rather than preventing crime and antisocial behaviour
Easy money, innit?If they are right (they are not) I’m amazed the traffic issues previously allowed me to navigate Bexley borough at all 😡😉0 -
6 points and a speed awareness course for me and £291 lighter.palarsehater said:
It’s the arterial road in an industrial area where there are no houses or pedestrians. The area was 40mph until 2 months ago.NorthheathAddick said:
To be honest at them speeds in a 30 spesh the last 2..deserves what he gets…🤷♂️Boom said:
Can’t you do a course for one of them so don’t get 3 points for that one?palarsehater said:unfortunately for me got clocked 3 times in essex the other week so looking at 9 points and already have 3 on licence was caught doing
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in a 30How long is a ban when you hit 12 points?So see what happens
was discussing in work yesterday is the 12 point rule in line with the amount of cameras etc now? when it was 1st introduced the only way to get caught was via police officer now there are so many cameras, the common thought was that it should be 24 points allowed.0 -
Whilst I may have fractured the odd speed limit in my time, I don't think I'd approve of someone being allowed to be caught speeding 8 times before they get banned. Especially as it's likely that for every time you're actually caught speeding, you're probably speeding a few hundred times without being caught. You'd also need to adjust the penalty points applied for more serious offences.palarsehater said:
6 points and a speed awareness course for me and £291 lighter.palarsehater said:
It’s the arterial road in an industrial area where there are no houses or pedestrians. The area was 40mph until 2 months ago.NorthheathAddick said:
To be honest at them speeds in a 30 spesh the last 2..deserves what he gets…🤷♂️Boom said:
Can’t you do a course for one of them so don’t get 3 points for that one?palarsehater said:unfortunately for me got clocked 3 times in essex the other week so looking at 9 points and already have 3 on licence was caught doing
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in a 30How long is a ban when you hit 12 points?So see what happens
was discussing in work yesterday is the 12 point rule in line with the amount of cameras etc now? when it was 1st introduced the only way to get caught was via police officer now there are so many cameras, the common thought was that it should be 24 points allowed.4 -
Honestly cant get my head around this point of view. Maybe its just me. I've been driving for 11 years now and have never been caught speeding. Maybe its luck but to me there are so many warnings for cameras - so many signs, lines on the road, every maps app warns you of their location, the bastard things are painted bright bloody yellow. They're so easy to avoid I have no idea how anyone can get done more than once every couple years when making a mistake. But to get done regularly just feels like you cant be concentrating on the road or you're just ignoring so many warnings.palarsehater said:
6 points and a speed awareness course for me and £291 lighter.palarsehater said:
It’s the arterial road in an industrial area where there are no houses or pedestrians. The area was 40mph until 2 months ago.NorthheathAddick said:
To be honest at them speeds in a 30 spesh the last 2..deserves what he gets…🤷♂️Boom said:
Can’t you do a course for one of them so don’t get 3 points for that one?palarsehater said:unfortunately for me got clocked 3 times in essex the other week so looking at 9 points and already have 3 on licence was caught doing
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in a 30How long is a ban when you hit 12 points?So see what happens
was discussing in work yesterday is the 12 point rule in line with the amount of cameras etc now? when it was 1st introduced the only way to get caught was via police officer now there are so many cameras, the common thought was that it should be 24 points allowed.
The mobile police ones are slightly different and there are less warnings for those but a fixed one or average speed check are so easy to comply with.
Its not that I don't drive above the speed limit (ask my wife) but just know when and when not to (when there are loads of signs saying speed camera is generally a good time not to!)7 -
I've been caught twice now. 26mph on a dual carriageway which had changed to 20mph a week before. I drive up it to every Charlton home game so admittedly just wasn't looking for new speed signs like I imagine most don't on roads they commonly drive.
Second time on the A20 doing 49mph on a road which I thought I was driving at a very sensible speed on and which had previously been 70mph. It was a dry day with no flooding around.
Not a sob story but seems harsh I have paid out £210 and have 3 points for that. I can certainly see merit in increasing the number of points for a ban.
Definitely more people will be getting bans now than previously which means losing jobs/more difficult to work and that isn't good for anyone.
Add in a fine for driving down a road which had recently been changed to pedestrian only between 14.30-16.00 because it has a school on it but this was on a small sign not any form of bollard restriction etc. There are sooo many signs now you have to spend half your time looking out for them instead of looking at the road. Speed limits on roads change every 100m or so on some stretches it has all just got ridiculous.
I suspect other countries like America there is simply more consistency and it is easier to follow but maybe I am wrong about that.2 -
Do speed awareness courses make any difference to the behaviour of vehicle drivers?0
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Whilst you can be ‘unlucky’ with mobile cameras and the like, it’s mostly down to driving behaviours.
i was taught by the then head of met driving, this was 1989 and he took me into motorways and taught me what to look for, vehicles on bridges, side of road/motorway, and more than anything always viewing what’s at your furthest point away.35 years on and touch wood I’ve never had a speeding ticket despite driving some very fast cars in that time.2 -
Yeah I can understand this sort of thing can happen occasionally. Its people getting done regularly on roads without changes I don't get.Athletico Charlton said:I've been caught twice now. 26mph on a dual carriageway which had changed to 20mph a week before. I drive up it to every Charlton home game so admittedly just wasn't looking for new speed signs like I imagine most don't on roads they commonly drive.
Second time on the A20 doing 49mph on a road which I thought I was driving at a very sensible speed on and which had previously been 70mph. It was a dry day with no flooding around.
Not a sob story but seems harsh I have paid out £210 and have 3 points for that. I can certainly see merit in increasing the number of points for a ban.
Definitely more people will be getting bans now than previously which means losing jobs/more difficult to work and that isn't good for anyone.
Add in a fine for driving down a road which had recently been changed to pedestrian only between 14.30-16.00 because it has a school on it but this was on a small sign not any form of bollard restriction etc. There are sooo many signs now you have to spend half your time looking out for them instead of looking at the road. Speed limits on roads change every 100m or so on some stretches it has all just got ridiculous.
I suspect other countries like America there is simply more consistency and it is easier to follow but maybe I am wrong about that.
Out of interest do you use a maps/driving app like google maps/waze? these are great at alerting you of speed cameras (often even mobile ones), I use them all the time even on journeys I know (unless its really short). Its useful for unexpected traffic etc. and finding a better route and the speed camera warnings is a bonus.0 -
I think they do.seth plum said:Do speed awareness courses make any difference to the behaviour of vehicle drivers?
Many people who get caught causing an offence have driven for years since passing their test. The conditions of the roads, ability of cars and volume of traffic has changed considerably since I passed my test in 1997, (my first car had a choke and no power steering). Whilst I was frustrated I had to pay the fine and attend the course, I actually appreciated the refresher and learnt a few things that I either didn't know before, or had clearly forgotten. There were lots of cynical people on the course at the start, all frustrated at the fact they had been 'caught' and thought the course would be pointless and a money maker, however, the guy running the course and they methods used, it was all really positive and i think only 1 person left the course with the same amount of angst that he started the day with. Everyone else felt it was an afternoon well spent.2
The owners of the site turned to Jenoptik to deliver the safety solution after a number of incidents on its roads due to speeding, both by members of the public using the roads as a racetrack, and staff at businesses based there not adhering to the limits.
