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Nathan Jones at Stoke - avoid the same mistakes?
Callumcafc
Posts: 63,794
Just saw a Stoke fan talking about how many draws Jones had with them in his first half season.
They expected to kick on in the summer but it fell apart and he was gone by November after losing 10 of the first 14 games.
Stoke Jan 2019-May 2019: W3 D11 L6
Charlton Feb 2024-Apr 2024: W4 D10 L2
Given how unstable this club has been over recent years I’ve still got doubts about how this summer will end up and this stat isn’t helping!
How do we avoid the same fate? What lessons will Jones have learned from that experience?
Stoke Jan 2019-May 2019: W3 D11 L6
Charlton Feb 2024-Apr 2024: W4 D10 L2
Given how unstable this club has been over recent years I’ve still got doubts about how this summer will end up and this stat isn’t helping!
How do we avoid the same fate? What lessons will Jones have learned from that experience?
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Comments
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He is completely at the mercy of how well he is supported by the SMT. If they arent interested in following his lead on signings, he wont succeed. Managers at Charlton are hamstrung by the organisation around them.Whether that has changed this time around, remains to be seen.14
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so predictable, one meh performance in a dead rubber and it's all panic all the time, this, that he didn't blow enough smoke up Alfie in a post match etc etc12
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Stoke have had numerous managers since they got relegated from the Prem in 2018, none of which (including Jones) have been successful, so I wouldn't be too worried based upon his time there.
It will mostly come down to how well he is backed from the board as i don't think there are many/any managers out there better than Jones we could get at our level.19 -
Callumcafc said:Just saw a Stoke fan talking about how many draws Jones had with them in his first half season.They expected to kick on in the summer but it fell apart and he was gone by November after losing 10 of the first 14 games.
Stoke Jan 2019-May 2019: W3 D11 L6
Charlton Feb 2024-Apr 2024: W4 D10 L2
Given how unstable this club has been over recent years I’ve still got doubts about how this summer will end up and this stat isn’t helping!
How do we avoid the same fate? What lessons will Jones have learned from that experience?I think I have seen that Jones had issues at Stoke with several players on big money/Egos from the prem days not taking to his methods.
I think Jones management relies on players buying into to him and the project. He needs to have full and final word on players otherwise it will fail.
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Lot of ex Prem players when he rocked up at Stoke, doubt they liked his full-on in your face methods. Peter Crouch has been scathing about the attitude of players at Stoke around that time. I’d say our current situation is much more like Luton than Stoke at this point.26
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Now if only we had someone on here who had the inside line on what happened at Stoke. Like their now retired HR Director for example.........13
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Was Wycombe away a meh performance, or two fingers to the superb fans who made the effort?1
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The board has been generous so far, no signs of a change (yet) , so it looks good for NJ.0
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Just a sub-standard end of season performance by 2 teams with nothing to play for.seth plum said:Was Wycombe away a meh performance, or two fingers to the superb fans who made the effort?
I think if we scored first, we would probably have won as Wycombe weren't exactly busting a gut.1 -
Maybe they could’ve played for the Charlton fans who were there.king addick said:
Just a sub-standard end of season performance by 2 teams with nothing to play for.seth plum said:Was Wycombe away a meh performance, or two fingers to the superb fans who made the effort?
I think if we scored first, we would probably have won as Wycombe weren't exactly busting a gut.
Instead Nathan Jones made them suffer watching Lua Lua Land.1 -
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A meh performance by two teams with zip to play for and certainly in Charltons case a good few knowing that it was their last performance in a Charlton shirt. Certainly no two fingers to the travelling fans and I can’t see any way on earth you could think it was.seth plum said:Was Wycombe away a meh performance, or two fingers to the superb fans who made the effort?4 -
Any way on earth?ShootersHillGuru said:
A meh performance by two teams with zip to play for and certainly in Charltons case a good few knowing that it was their last performance in a Charlton shirt. Certainly no two fingers to the travelling fans and I can’t see any way on earth you could think it was.seth plum said:Was Wycombe away a meh performance, or two fingers to the superb fans who made the effort?
Really?
I watched it all and whilst doing so I could hear our fans getting behind the team.
The players hardly gave a damn.2 -
Rothko said:so predictable, one meh performance in a dead rubber and it's all panic all the time, this, that he didn't blow enough smoke up Alfie in a post match etc etc
I dont think Callum is reacting to Wycombe.... I think he is just asking a question. The answer may well be that the same thing wont happen, but second season syndrome for a new manager is a pretty common consideration, and not just NJ. The spanners will be saying the same about Harris.
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If you think the players did a purposeful “fuck you” to the fans then it’s even by your standards one of your weirdest posts. It was a typically flat performance by two poor teams with nothing to play for and already on a beach somewhere. It would have been replicated in many games.seth plum said:
Any way on earth?ShootersHillGuru said:
A meh performance by two teams with zip to play for and certainly in Charltons case a good few knowing that it was their last performance in a Charlton shirt. Certainly no two fingers to the travelling fans and I can’t see any way on earth you could think it was.seth plum said:Was Wycombe away a meh performance, or two fingers to the superb fans who made the effort?
Really?
I watched it all and whilst doing so I could hear our fans getting behind the team.
The players hardly gave a damn.13 -
Addick Addict said:Now if only we had someone on here who had the inside line on what happened at Stoke. Like their now retired HR Director for example.
If I remember correctly Mr. Munro was not in favour of Nathans appointment.0 -
You’re welcome to read the match thread, the post match thread and look at the player marks if you like.ShootersHillGuru said:
If you think the players did a purposeful “fuck you” to the fans then it’s even by your standards one of your weirdest posts. It was a typically flat performance by two poor teams with nothing to play for and already on a beach somewhere. It would have been replicated in many games.seth plum said:
Any way on earth?ShootersHillGuru said:
A meh performance by two teams with zip to play for and certainly in Charltons case a good few knowing that it was their last performance in a Charlton shirt. Certainly no two fingers to the travelling fans and I can’t see any way on earth you could think it was.seth plum said:Was Wycombe away a meh performance, or two fingers to the superb fans who made the effort?
Really?
I watched it all and whilst doing so I could hear our fans getting behind the team.
The players hardly gave a damn.
If you believe my take is so weirdly out of kilter with what others are saying or said then fine.
I certainly think that when fans spend on tickets and travel and sell out and sing, in what was potentially a match where the unbeaten run could’ve been sustained, and a good performance could’ve been a nice pointer towards the future, and encouraged ticket sales and a general feel good factor, that the players and management team could have made much more effort.
I watched and felt that the players took the support for granted and played like they couldn’t really care less, and Jones put out an appalling team, and did appalling substitutions.
Yeah I know, another weird post from me as the only fan who feels let down and insulted by the performance on Saturday.1 -
There is a considerable difference between simply not giving a shit and playing badly ON PURPOSE to insult fans for... some reason.seth plum said:
You’re welcome to read the match thread, the post match thread and look at the player marks if you like.ShootersHillGuru said:
If you think the players did a purposeful “fuck you” to the fans then it’s even by your standards one of your weirdest posts. It was a typically flat performance by two poor teams with nothing to play for and already on a beach somewhere. It would have been replicated in many games.seth plum said:
Any way on earth?ShootersHillGuru said:
A meh performance by two teams with zip to play for and certainly in Charltons case a good few knowing that it was their last performance in a Charlton shirt. Certainly no two fingers to the travelling fans and I can’t see any way on earth you could think it was.seth plum said:Was Wycombe away a meh performance, or two fingers to the superb fans who made the effort?
Really?
I watched it all and whilst doing so I could hear our fans getting behind the team.
The players hardly gave a damn.
If you believe my take is so weirdly out of kilter with what others are saying or said then fine.
I certainly think that when fans spend on tickets and travel and sell out and sing, in what was potentially a match where the unbeaten run could’ve been sustained, and a good performance could’ve been a nice pointer towards the future, and encouraged ticket sales and a general feel good factor, that the players and management team could have made much more effort.
I watched and felt that the players took the support for granted and played like they couldn’t really care less, and Jones put out an appalling team, and did appalling substitutions.
Yeah I know, another weird post from me as the only fan who feels let down and insulted by the performance on Saturday.
You can take that personally if you like but I assure you, the players just do not care enough to do it deliberately.7 -
Exactly @bobmunro his silence is deafening and scares me re our fruitbat managerStarinnaddick said:Addick Addict said:Now if only we had someone on here who had the inside line on what happened at Stoke. Like their now retired HR Director for example.
If I remember correctly Mr. Munro was not in favour of Nathans appointment.1 -
There are no parallels with Stoke. As someone else said, his success or otherwise will be dictated by whether we get the 6 or so players we need to improve the team.0
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Yes there is certainly a difference between playing badly ‘on purpose’ and determinedly and purposefully trying to play well. Something I didn’t see on Saturday.0
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I'm pretty sure as wank as Stoke have been the owners have backed each and every shit manager they've had0
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I seriously doubt that being beaten by Wycombe in a pointless end of season game will have any bearing on next years ticket sales. I also seriously doubt a 4-0 win would have.seth plum said:
You’re welcome to read the match thread, the post match thread and look at the player marks if you like.ShootersHillGuru said:
If you think the players did a purposeful “fuck you” to the fans then it’s even by your standards one of your weirdest posts. It was a typically flat performance by two poor teams with nothing to play for and already on a beach somewhere. It would have been replicated in many games.seth plum said:
Any way on earth?ShootersHillGuru said:
A meh performance by two teams with zip to play for and certainly in Charltons case a good few knowing that it was their last performance in a Charlton shirt. Certainly no two fingers to the travelling fans and I can’t see any way on earth you could think it was.seth plum said:Was Wycombe away a meh performance, or two fingers to the superb fans who made the effort?
Really?
I watched it all and whilst doing so I could hear our fans getting behind the team.
The players hardly gave a damn.
If you believe my take is so weirdly out of kilter with what others are saying or said then fine.
I certainly think that when fans spend on tickets and travel and sell out and sing, in what was potentially a match where the unbeaten run could’ve been sustained, and a good performance could’ve been a nice pointer towards the future, and encouraged ticket sales and a general feel good factor, that the players and management team could have made much more effort.
I watched and felt that the players took the support for granted and played like they couldn’t really care less, and Jones put out an appalling team, and did appalling substitutions.
Yeah I know, another weird post from me as the only fan who feels let down and insulted by the performance on Saturday.
the only thing that will have a bearing on ticket sales is transfer activity. A good start to the window on paper will definitely be a factor in me renewing.6 -
You take it as a 2 finger salute because you are desperate to be victimised.seth plum said:Was Wycombe away a meh performance, or two fingers to the superb fans who made the effort?
The rest of us understand it was because it was the last game of the season and meaningless and many of the players will now be released.
Boy do you need help.
Please stop trying to drag so many threads into making it all about you.
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People, including me, took that performance in a number of ways.Covered End said:
You take it as a 2 finger salute because you are desperate to be victimised.seth plum said:Was Wycombe away a meh performance, or two fingers to the superb fans who made the effort?
The rest of us understand it was because it was the last game of the season and meaningless and many of the players will now be released.
Boy do you need help.
Please stop trying to drag so many threads into making it all about you.
Your implication is that you speak for everyone except me.
I have not attempted to drag this thread in any direction.0 -
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Don’t free Terell Thomas? This is a Nathan Jones thread.Henry Irving said:DFTT
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In the past, for many seasons I'd go to 85% of the games, end of season games bring out performances akin to a pre-season friendly, it's how it is for virtually all teams with zero to play for.seth plum said:
People, including me, took that performance in a number of ways.Covered End said:
You take it as a 2 finger salute because you are desperate to be victimised.seth plum said:Was Wycombe away a meh performance, or two fingers to the superb fans who made the effort?
The rest of us understand it was because it was the last game of the season and meaningless and many of the players will now be released.
Boy do you need help.
Please stop trying to drag so many threads into making it all about you.
Your implication is that you speak for everyone except me.
I have not attempted to drag this thread in any direction.
If I'd gone Saturday I'd have shrugged my shoulders and buggered off before the end and gone for a drink.
Players are not giving a f*** for fans, it's a job.
I'm not criticising you here btw @seth plum
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Was it 1? Was quite a number of meh performances in the last two months of the season.Rothko said:so predictable, one meh performance in a dead rubber and it's all panic all the time, this, that he didn't blow enough smoke up Alfie in a post match etc etc
Either way, I think Jones will do well if backed appropriately with good signings. Less good if that doesn't happen.1 -
In the pre match interview Jones did not imply that the game was a dead rubber, or an experiment. Quite the reverse actually.
He actually said 'We've gotta make sure we're at it.' And more.
If you're able to access his pre Wycombe interview he talks about the game from about three minutes in.0
