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POST-MATCH THREAD: Charlton Athletic v Rotherham Utd: Saturday 7th September 2024 | KO 15:00
Comments
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I know you probably won't have any recent data but do you have any idea of how many people actually drive to games rather than walk/get public transport? I'm always surprised when I see people talking about driving as the public transport links are so good. Aware not everyone is able to use them but would imagine that's a small %Airman Brown said:
I think people just have unrealistic expectations in terms of attendances. That was probably 11-12,000, which is not unreasonable for an early home game with Rotherham in a fifth consecutive L1 season. The uncertainty over the game being on and people making other plans in the meantime may have trimmed the crowd more than the tiny number coming through the tunnel.MuttleyCAFC said:
I don't know but the Blackwall Tunnel being closed may have affected them traffic wise even if they stayed in a hotel, depending on where it was. I think the constant closures and restrictions to the tunnel is affecting gates to a certain degree too.seth plum said:We presumably travel to Shrewsbury on Friday (incidentally what was the late arrival of Rotherham all about, don’t they stay in a local hotel?), yet on Friday evening we are due to play an U21 game at home to Leeds United with a 7pm kick off at the Valley.
Clearly there will be significance regarding the team for Saturday when we see the Friday line up. Things are further complicated by international absentees and when they return and in what shape.
So I make the U21 game tomorrow afternoon at Dartford a particularly interesting one in terms of the players selected, we might get more of an idea about what’s what at the weekend after tomorrow.2 -
I mentioned this a few times before on CL, but crowds won't increase dramatically at this level even if we go on a promotion run. We won our final six home games in a row in 2018-19 and were clearly on course for at least the playoffs, even then we struggled to get over 12,000.Airman Brown said:
I think people just have unrealistic expectations in terms of attendances. That was probably 11-12,000, which is not unreasonable for an early home game with Rotherham in a fifth consecutive L1 season. The uncertainty over the game being on and people making other plans in the meantime may have trimmed the crowd more than the tiny number coming through the tunnel.MuttleyCAFC said:
I don't know but the Blackwall Tunnel being closed may have affected them traffic wise even if they stayed in a hotel, depending on where it was. I think the constant closures and restrictions to the tunnel is affecting gates to a certain degree too.seth plum said:We presumably travel to Shrewsbury on Friday (incidentally what was the late arrival of Rotherham all about, don’t they stay in a local hotel?), yet on Friday evening we are due to play an U21 game at home to Leeds United with a 7pm kick off at the Valley.
Clearly there will be significance regarding the team for Saturday when we see the Friday line up. Things are further complicated by international absentees and when they return and in what shape.
So I make the U21 game tomorrow afternoon at Dartford a particularly interesting one in terms of the players selected, we might get more of an idea about what’s what at the weekend after tomorrow.6 -
Workmanlike, disciplined, athletic, committed, organised but here’s the question. Where is the flair. Where is that sprinkle of magic. Where ?2
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One went to Birmingham the other to Derby.ShootersHillGuru said:Workmanlike, disciplined, athletic, committed, organised but here’s the question. Where is the flair. Where is that sprinkle of magic. Where ?9 -
Alfie May is not a flair player, he's many great things but you can't label him that.golfaddick said:
One went to Birmingham the other to Derby.ShootersHillGuru said:Workmanlike, disciplined, athletic, committed, organised but here’s the question. Where is the flair. Where is that sprinkle of magic. Where ?
I think supporters value flair more than managers in NJ's style. The issue with flair players is you can't guarantee consistency and they will go missing. Flair players are unlikely to be workhorses who will run themselves into the ground for the team which is what our style is.5 -
And this isn’t the first time we’ve been victims of worldies. They’re a bit like busses…seth plum said:Of the three goals we have conceded this season two have been excellent efforts, one clearly our mistake.
We may not be battering others, but neither are we being battered ourselves.
Would be nice if we scored a few more. Chuks’s goal was incredibly well taken, but he was only just outside the box, so decently high Xg I suspect. Those 25-30 yarders always have an element of luck about them. That Kelly fella will never score a better goal than that.
While the game wasn’t barnstorming by any means, it was interesting enough for me. I’m a bit surprised by people saying they wanted to walk out at half time.I took a lot of pleasure from the performances of Ramsey and to some extent Tupac and Chuks. Jones also caught the eye with some decent forward runs and passes, and Mitchell is always worth watching for his positioning and his tackling.The midfield are efficient enough, and I did say while the window was open that a bit of creativity was needed.Still, overall I’m happy enough for now.1 -
On Charlton Live they ask the opposition fan to identify one player we should look out for as a threat. If an opposition fan asked me to identify one player who's a threat in our starting eleven, what could you say?ShootersHillGuru said:Workmanlike, disciplined, athletic, committed, organised but here’s the question. Where is the flair. Where is that sprinkle of magic. Where ?2 -
The xG for Chuks goal was only 0.05, think about how many shots from that area are taken and not that many go in, xG suggests that 1 in 20 would go in from there.JamesSeed said:
And this isn’t the first time we’ve been victims of worldies. They’re a bit like busses…seth plum said:Of the three goals we have conceded this season two have been excellent efforts, one clearly our mistake.
We may not be battering others, but neither are we being battered ourselves.
Would be nice if we scored a few more. Chuks’s goal was incredibly well taken, but he was only just outside the box, so decently high Xg I suspect. Those 25-30 yarders always have an element of luck about them. That Kelly fella will never score a better goal than that.
While the game wasn’t barnstorming by any means, it was interesting enough for me. I’m a bit surprised by people saying they wanted to walk out at half time.I took a lot of pleasure from the performances of Ramsey and to some extent Tupac and Chuks. Jones also caught the eye with some decent forward runs and passes, and Mitchell is always worth watching for his positioning and his tackling.The midfield are efficient enough, and I did say while the window was open that a bit of creativity was needed.Still, overall I’m happy enough for now.0 -
Their goal had an xG of 0.02 as it was even further out.0
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Chuks header was 0.23 and Ahadme's skied effort was 0.290
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All three of our midfielders went to block the shot, but it found its way through and flew into the corner from 30 yards. CL of course immediately started apportioning blame left right and centre, because there's no such thing as a goal conceded without a serious slagging-off to be delivered3
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The good news is we look more solid than we've done in previous seasons. On the other hand our midfield is workmanlike and uninspired (I can't think of a single stand out attribute of any of them) and the attack doesn't put our opponents under nearly enough pressure, both in terms of goal threat and a feeble press.
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I think the issue was that goal scorer was allowed to drive forward 15 yards before anyone even tried to close him down, by the time the players attempted to block the shot it was too late.Leuth said:All three of our midfielders went to block the shot, but it found its way through and flew into the corner from 30 yards. CL of course immediately started apportioning blame left right and centre, because there's no such thing as a goal conceded without a serious slagging-off to be delivered14 -
I posted the below on 22/8 on the Josh Edwards thread, I believe it was prescient:
"A blow never the less as Small is still learning the game and CAFC critics have little patience and everyone and their Auntie knows, good wingbacks are essential in a 3-5-2 formation. Let hope it is weeks not months 🤞"
Sounded harsh but meant from the point of view of Thierry having to play every game when the work load on the LWB in immense in our favoured formation.
As it is on Ramsey but being 24 next month, Kayne is ready to kick on in his career.
I rate Small and he had a decent start last season but he will have games like Saturday and the crowd need to encourage all our young players as they strive for consistency. Small, Anderson, Campbell, Kanu etc.
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Perfect summary as always.Blucher said:A very disappointing and rather worrying performance for a team with top 6 ambitions. Our lack of creativity and goal threat were there for all to see and Rotherham (who looked pretty average themselves) will probably feel they should have won. After Ahadme’s diabolical early miss and then falling behind in the second half, the game looked to have 0-1 written all over it until Chuk’s moment of inspiration.
I don’t think this style of kick and rush, attritional football is going to win us enough games. There is very little creativity coming from midfield - albeit they are frequently bypassed by long balls - and the supply of high quality crosses from the wing backs is practically non-existent - all of which helps to explain why we only managed one effort on target all afternoon. It doesn’t make for very entertaining stuff and Dillon Phillips could not have wished for a quieter afternoon upon his return to his old stomping ground.
Apart from backing off excessively and then failing to attempt a block for the Rotherham goal, I thought we defended ok, as Rotherham’s game is based upon getting lots of balls into the box and we dealt with them reasonably well. Ramsey was exceptionally good and looks a cut above - in contrast, sadly, to Thierry Small, whose form and confidence has dipped alarmingly (if I was his agent, I’d be looking to get that contract extension signed pronto).
Coventry had a steady game but Berry was lightweight and Docherty failed to make any impression on the game. We simply couldn’t retain any meaningful possession and exercise any element of control over the game.
Up top, Adhame had another poor match - crowned by his inexcusable early miss - and Godden struggled to prise open the Rotherham rearguard, although the service from midfield was pretty hopeless and the team’s main ploy was hoping for flick-ins from Ahadme. Tyreece Campbell looked like a man with a point to prove when he entered the fray and he most certainly proved it, stretching the Rotherham backline and creating a bit of panic.
We’ll be better when Edwards and Leaburn return but I’m worried that the current tactical approach and rigidity and the lack of goals in the side is ultimately going to preclude a serious challenge for the top 6.
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For me it would be Tyreece Campbell or Chuks. Feel like they're the only two that can flip a game on its head in this side currently.Chunes said:
On Charlton Live they ask the opposition fan to identify one player we should look out for as a threat. If an opposition fan asked me to identify one player who's a threat in our starting eleven, what could you say?ShootersHillGuru said:Workmanlike, disciplined, athletic, committed, organised but here’s the question. Where is the flair. Where is that sprinkle of magic. Where ?
TC has been quite impressive in his last two cameos, very quick and committed. Chuks is Chuks, will always be a threat at this level.
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Agree with this. I think we were in danger of praising Miles a little too highly at the start. And like everything, he’s become an even better player during his absence!!!! He’s not Ronaldo!!! And who knows any impact physically and mentally his injury may have had. He remains a terrific prospect and, if fully recovered and on it, will be a class above what we have at the moment. But get those expectations under control folks.MuttleyCAFC said:The thing about Miles is we don't know the effect the long lay off will have had on him. Logic says he needs a few U21 games o get up to speed including fitness wise. Hopefully that will happen soon. If I was the club I would be saying don't expect too much too soon from the lad. But we definitely need him.0 -
Most people probably come in cars. There is a lot of public transport but at least three quarters of home fans are heading into a direction that falls into an arc from the river to Bromley (even if that requires them to start a train journey in the opposite direction).fenaddick said:
I know you probably won't have any recent data but do you have any idea of how many people actually drive to games rather than walk/get public transport? I'm always surprised when I see people talking about driving as the public transport links are so good. Aware not everyone is able to use them but would imagine that's a small %Airman Brown said:
I think people just have unrealistic expectations in terms of attendances. That was probably 11-12,000, which is not unreasonable for an early home game with Rotherham in a fifth consecutive L1 season. The uncertainty over the game being on and people making other plans in the meantime may have trimmed the crowd more than the tiny number coming through the tunnel.MuttleyCAFC said:
I don't know but the Blackwall Tunnel being closed may have affected them traffic wise even if they stayed in a hotel, depending on where it was. I think the constant closures and restrictions to the tunnel is affecting gates to a certain degree too.seth plum said:We presumably travel to Shrewsbury on Friday (incidentally what was the late arrival of Rotherham all about, don’t they stay in a local hotel?), yet on Friday evening we are due to play an U21 game at home to Leeds United with a 7pm kick off at the Valley.
Clearly there will be significance regarding the team for Saturday when we see the Friday line up. Things are further complicated by international absentees and when they return and in what shape.
So I make the U21 game tomorrow afternoon at Dartford a particularly interesting one in terms of the players selected, we might get more of an idea about what’s what at the weekend after tomorrow.
Valley Express carries about 2% these days. It was more like 5% on a regular basis in the PL, rising to 15% on exceptional days. The problem is that the public transport isn’t useful for many people, which is why VEX worked. It’s not just location but cost, age and disability too.
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Not sure what that means? Is it that 1 in 4 of those kind of chances are likely to go in?Covered_End_Lad said:Chuks header was 0.23 and Ahadme's skied effort was 0.290 -
Effectively they model the position of the shot and where the defenders and goalkeeper are at the time of the shot, overlay it against similar shots across thousands of other matches to define the likelihood of it going in.WrightCharlie said:
Not sure what that means? Is it that 1 in 4 of those kind of chances are likely to go in?Covered_End_Lad said:Chuks header was 0.23 and Ahadme's skied effort was 0.290 -
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Thanks, the removal of the loop line can't have helped either. When I go home it's a pain to have to go to Lewisham to get back to Sidcup, means I can have a beer before the game though so worth it for me!Airman Brown said:
Most people probably come in cars. There is a lot of public transport but at least three quarters of home fans are heading into a direction that falls into an arc from the river to Bromley (even if that requires them to start a train journey in the opposite direction).fenaddick said:
I know you probably won't have any recent data but do you have any idea of how many people actually drive to games rather than walk/get public transport? I'm always surprised when I see people talking about driving as the public transport links are so good. Aware not everyone is able to use them but would imagine that's a small %Airman Brown said:
I think people just have unrealistic expectations in terms of attendances. That was probably 11-12,000, which is not unreasonable for an early home game with Rotherham in a fifth consecutive L1 season. The uncertainty over the game being on and people making other plans in the meantime may have trimmed the crowd more than the tiny number coming through the tunnel.MuttleyCAFC said:
I don't know but the Blackwall Tunnel being closed may have affected them traffic wise even if they stayed in a hotel, depending on where it was. I think the constant closures and restrictions to the tunnel is affecting gates to a certain degree too.seth plum said:We presumably travel to Shrewsbury on Friday (incidentally what was the late arrival of Rotherham all about, don’t they stay in a local hotel?), yet on Friday evening we are due to play an U21 game at home to Leeds United with a 7pm kick off at the Valley.
Clearly there will be significance regarding the team for Saturday when we see the Friday line up. Things are further complicated by international absentees and when they return and in what shape.
So I make the U21 game tomorrow afternoon at Dartford a particularly interesting one in terms of the players selected, we might get more of an idea about what’s what at the weekend after tomorrow.
Valley Express carries about 2% these days. It was more like 5% on a regular basis in the PL, rising to 15% on exceptional days. The problem is that the public transport isn’t useful for many people, which is why VEX worked. It’s not just location but cost, age and disability too.0 -
That we're a bang average, but disciplined hard working, third division side is what I would say.Chunes said:
On Charlton Live they ask the opposition fan to identify one player we should look out for as a threat. If an opposition fan asked me to identify one player who's a threat in our starting eleven, what could you say?ShootersHillGuru said:Workmanlike, disciplined, athletic, committed, organised but here’s the question. Where is the flair. Where is that sprinkle of magic. Where ?0 -
I’d say we’re a bit better than average but at present I don’t see anything that makes me confident we’ll get top six. I think we’ll run it close but I’m not convinced.Hal1x said:
That we're a bang average, but disciplined hard working, third division side is what I would say.Chunes said:
On Charlton Live they ask the opposition fan to identify one player we should look out for as a threat. If an opposition fan asked me to identify one player who's a threat in our starting eleven, what could you say?ShootersHillGuru said:Workmanlike, disciplined, athletic, committed, organised but here’s the question. Where is the flair. Where is that sprinkle of magic. Where ?0 -
I am amazed and surprised that our midfielders and defenders are positioned this deep when Kelly picks up the ball to begin with.
Both lines should be 6 or more yards further up the pitch. Makes it hard to close down effectively when you’re starting so far away.
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According to Fatty Fatty Evans methodology you can probably take a couple of thousand off of that. Fans that leave in injury time don't count. 🤪eastterrace6168 said:
Attendance: 13,569 (616)...ross1 said:Sorry if I missed it on here but does anyone know the attendance yesterday?
Courtesy of The Rotherham Advertiser...👍1 -
Stig said:
According to Fatty Fatty Evans methodology you can probably take a couple of thousand off of that. Fans that leave in injury time don't count. 🤪eastterrace6168 said:
Attendance: 13,569 (616)...ross1 said:Sorry if I missed it on here but does anyone know the attendance yesterday?
Courtesy of The Rotherham Advertiser...👍
Good job they didn't go by weight, he would have doubled their gate on his own...🙄1 -
I agree. Berry (I think) furthest on the right, is the player in particular who should be further forward to close that down. There are already four colleagues picking up the three Rotherham players. The amount of space for the goalscorer to run into is ridiculous.Callumcafc said:I am amazed and surprised that our midfielders and defenders are positioned this deep when Kelly picks up the ball to begin with.
Both lines should be 6 or more yards further up the pitch. Makes it hard to close down effectively when you’re starting so far away.2 -
thetomahawkkid said:
I agree. Berry (I think) furthest on the right, is the player in particular who should be further forward to close that down. There are already four colleagues picking up the three Rotherham players. The amount of space for the goalscorer to run into is ridiculous.Callumcafc said:I am amazed and surprised that our midfielders and defenders are positioned this deep when Kelly picks up the ball to begin with.
Both lines should be 6 or more yards further up the pitch. Makes it hard to close down effectively when you’re starting so far away.
Hopefully Nathan takes a print of that and sticks it up on the dressing room wall...that is criminal non-marking...🤦♂️0 -
Callumcafc said:I am amazed and surprised that our midfielders and defenders are positioned this deep when Kelly picks up the ball to begin with.
Both lines should be 6 or more yards further up the pitch. Makes it hard to close down effectively when you’re starting so far away.
Also, that space between our right and centre, wonder strike or not, could have played an easy through ball there and probably still make it 1-0.1
