Your thoughts after 12 games

Radostanradical said:

agim said:

Radostanradical said:

agim said:

Radostanradical said:

agim said:

Feel like Jones put all his eggs in one basket re this year's formation leaving only one real winger in the squad, two if you count Dixon. I also feel he gambled on quantity over quality in the forward department after loosing May and I think that's something that's backfired.

I don't care what anyone says the board cannot be serious about promotion after letting a proven 20 goal a season striker leave. How can you sell your best asset and not replace him. 

Agreed we should have forced the 32 year old striker who WANTED to move to a club that was going to almost quadruple his wages, let him live closer to his wife's family and probably win something this year. Can't see how on earth that could ever effect morale.

My point is they let him leave without replacing him not that May wanted to go. If a player actively wants to leave they should go BUT not until we replace them which we haven't done. We held all the cards he still had a year on his contract but they clearly haven't got enough money to fund a 'promotion chasing side" without selling someone. Hence they cashed in. It's like selling a Ferrari for a clapped out Fiesta and then wondering why you've broken down on the A2 three times in a week

You muppet

Ok who could we replace him with realistically, who on earth could we replace May with taking account of the 850k we got for him. No we didn't hold all the cards as, yes he had a year on his contract but if he threw a tantrum it makes the atmosphere at the training ground poor, players would turn against management, fans argue amongst themselves.

Also please don't call me a muppet I'm intimidated by your superior intellect now

So we had absolutely no choice but to sell him incase he threw a tantrum? I can't believe what I'm reading. I don't know who we could of signed because that's not my job but the people who's job it is haven't got it right the stats speak for themselves making it even more of a ludicrous decision. Seems like you're happy for us to languish in League One for another year as long as we haven't upset Alf and his family. To be honest what's done is done the decision just baffles my mind. 

Calm down Kermit

Why not ? i can imagine you believe lots of things you hear. Again you are just ignoring reality ! Obviously I'd rather have a happy May playing for Charlton, I (and most people that actually possess GCSE's) believe Charlton are a better team without having a player who doesn't want to play for us. Happy to languish in league one ? What a strawman argument (you probably don't know that term as I doubt its ever been mentioned in The Sun or on the back of a cereal box), of course I don't, neither do I really care if Alfie is happy, more than i care if anyone is happy. That said I believe we have a better chance of getting out of league one with players who actually want to be at the club.

So your argument is "thEy NEEd tO SigN SoMEOne bUT DoNT ASk mE If ITs PoSSibLe To REPLace MAy or WhO We shoULD SiGN", what a brilliant point ! maybe we can use that with other issues effecting the world ?

Stop it from raining ? How ? not my problem mate.

Now repeat that back to me so I know you understood it.

Wow what a post

You assume I'm a uneducated, cereal eating, newspaper reader that should have an in depth scouting knowledge of all potential striker replacements within a valuation of 800-900k. Sorry to disappoint old chap.

I'd forgotten how many lonley middle aged sociopaths are on here (no offence to 99% of you)

Enjoy your day 

agim said:

Radostanradical said:

agim said:

Radostanradical said:

agim said:

Radostanradical said:

agim said:

Feel like Jones put all his eggs in one basket re this year's formation leaving only one real winger in the squad, two if you count Dixon. I also feel he gambled on quantity over quality in the forward department after loosing May and I think that's something that's backfired.

I don't care what anyone says the board cannot be serious about promotion after letting a proven 20 goal a season striker leave. How can you sell your best asset and not replace him. 

Agreed we should have forced the 32 year old striker who WANTED to move to a club that was going to almost quadruple his wages, let him live closer to his wife's family and probably win something this year. Can't see how on earth that could ever effect morale.

My point is they let him leave without replacing him not that May wanted to go. If a player actively wants to leave they should go BUT not until we replace them which we haven't done. We held all the cards he still had a year on his contract but they clearly haven't got enough money to fund a 'promotion chasing side" without selling someone. Hence they cashed in. It's like selling a Ferrari for a clapped out Fiesta and then wondering why you've broken down on the A2 three times in a week

You muppet

Ok who could we replace him with realistically, who on earth could we replace May with taking account of the 850k we got for him. No we didn't hold all the cards as, yes he had a year on his contract but if he threw a tantrum it makes the atmosphere at the training ground poor, players would turn against management, fans argue amongst themselves.

Also please don't call me a muppet I'm intimidated by your superior intellect now

So we had absolutely no choice but to sell him incase he threw a tantrum? I can't believe what I'm reading. I don't know who we could of signed because that's not my job but the people who's job it is haven't got it right the stats speak for themselves making it even more of a ludicrous decision. Seems like you're happy for us to languish in League One for another year as long as we haven't upset Alf and his family. To be honest what's done is done the decision just baffles my mind. 

Calm down Kermit

Why not ? i can imagine you believe lots of things you hear. Again you are just ignoring reality ! Obviously I'd rather have a happy May playing for Charlton, I (and most people that actually possess GCSE's) believe Charlton are a better team without having a player who doesn't want to play for us. Happy to languish in league one ? What a strawman argument (you probably don't know that term as I doubt its ever been mentioned in The Sun or on the back of a cereal box), of course I don't, neither do I really care if Alfie is happy, more than i care if anyone is happy. That said I believe we have a better chance of getting out of league one with players who actually want to be at the club.

So your argument is "thEy NEEd tO SigN SoMEOne bUT DoNT ASk mE If ITs PoSSibLe To REPLace MAy or WhO We shoULD SiGN", what a brilliant point ! maybe we can use that with other issues effecting the world ?

Stop it from raining ? How ? not my problem mate.

Now repeat that back to me so I know you understood it.

Wow what a post

You assume I'm a uneducated, cereal eating, newspaper reader that should have an in depth scouting knowledge of all potential striker replacements within a valuation of 800-900k. Sorry to disappoint old chap.

I'd forgotten how many lonley middle aged sociopaths are on here (no offence to 99% of you)

Enjoy your day 

Lonely*

My take is in most of the games every outcome is possible. That means with even luck we will achieve a record similar to what we have now. The positive is that maybe a minor improvement could change that in our favour but with injuries to key players we have to accept that can go the other way too. All in all, we can't write the season off but it is hard to get too excited about it at the moment.

agim said:

Radostanradical said:

agim said:

Radostanradical said:

agim said:

Radostanradical said:

agim said:

Radostanradical said:

agim said:

Feel like Jones put all his eggs in one basket re this year's formation leaving only one real winger in the squad, two if you count Dixon. I also feel he gambled on quantity over quality in the forward department after loosing May and I think that's something that's backfired.

I don't care what anyone says the board cannot be serious about promotion after letting a proven 20 goal a season striker leave. How can you sell your best asset and not replace him. 

Agreed we should have forced the 32 year old striker who WANTED to move to a club that was going to almost quadruple his wages, let him live closer to his wife's family and probably win something this year. Can't see how on earth that could ever effect morale.

My point is they let him leave without replacing him not that May wanted to go. If a player actively wants to leave they should go BUT not until we replace them which we haven't done. We held all the cards he still had a year on his contract but they clearly haven't got enough money to fund a 'promotion chasing side" without selling someone. Hence they cashed in. It's like selling a Ferrari for a clapped out Fiesta and then wondering why you've broken down on the A2 three times in a week

You muppet

Ok who could we replace him with realistically, who on earth could we replace May with taking account of the 850k we got for him. No we didn't hold all the cards as, yes he had a year on his contract but if he threw a tantrum it makes the atmosphere at the training ground poor, players would turn against management, fans argue amongst themselves.

Also please don't call me a muppet I'm intimidated by your superior intellect now

So we had absolutely no choice but to sell him incase he threw a tantrum? I can't believe what I'm reading. I don't know who we could of signed because that's not my job but the people who's job it is haven't got it right the stats speak for themselves making it even more of a ludicrous decision. Seems like you're happy for us to languish in League One for another year as long as we haven't upset Alf and his family. To be honest what's done is done the decision just baffles my mind. 

Calm down Kermit

Why not ? i can imagine you believe lots of things you hear. Again you are just ignoring reality ! Obviously I'd rather have a happy May playing for Charlton, I (and most people that actually possess GCSE's) believe Charlton are a better team without having a player who doesn't want to play for us. Happy to languish in league one ? What a strawman argument (you probably don't know that term as I doubt its ever been mentioned in The Sun or on the back of a cereal box), of course I don't, neither do I really care if Alfie is happy, more than i care if anyone is happy. That said I believe we have a better chance of getting out of league one with players who actually want to be at the club.

So your argument is "thEy NEEd tO SigN SoMEOne bUT DoNT ASk mE If ITs PoSSibLe To REPLace MAy or WhO We shoULD SiGN", what a brilliant point ! maybe we can use that with other issues effecting the world ?

Stop it from raining ? How ? not my problem mate.

Now repeat that back to me so I know you understood it.

Wow what a post

You assume I'm a uneducated, cereal eating, newspaper reader that should have an in depth scouting knowledge of all potential striker replacements within a valuation of 800-900k. Sorry to disappoint old chap.

I'd forgotten how many lonley middle aged sociopaths are on here (no offence to 99% of you)

Enjoy your day 

Lonely*

Fair play, fat fingers!

I'm only messing lad, have a great day

agim said:

Wheresmeticket said:

Oh god are we at the "you want us to fail" stage of debate?

What I'm saying is I don't understand why anyone would back that decision under the premise that May would be upset and homesick. It's professional football this is what happens 

They sold May because of his age and he's in the last year of his contract 

They haven't replaced him and it's almost certainly why we will finish mid table.

I get that, but what you actually said was "seems like you're happy for us to languish in League One for another year as long as we haven't upset Alf and his family"

Wheresmeticket said:

agim said:

Wheresmeticket said:

Oh god are we at the "you want us to fail" stage of debate?

What I'm saying is I don't understand why anyone would back that decision under the premise that May would be upset and homesick. It's professional football this is what happens 

They sold May because of his age and he's in the last year of his contract 

They haven't replaced him and it's almost certainly why we will finish mid table.

I get that, but what you actually said was "seems like you're happy for us to languish in League One for another year as long as we haven't upset Alf and his family"

Yeah that was rash. 

msomerton said:

swordfish said:

North Lower Neil said:

swordfish said:

North Lower Neil said:

Kindoncasella said:

We keep sacking managers and recruiting average players and expect things to change, madness.

No investment of quality players  = no promotion.

Exactly this.  For all the talk of Methven & Co improving things off the pitch, running things sensibly, owners being excited by the challenge etc etc, the fact is that on the field they have:

- Sold CBT to use the money to fund cheap deals for REG, Gillesphey and a signing on fee for Coventry.
- Tried to sell Dobbo in Jan.
- Sold May to pay for Adadme and Godden.

They've put in so little of their own money really.

There isn't some magic system where you can outwit others - put in their own money, we could have kept Dobson and May, and had better players than Gillesphey, Ahadme, A.Campell.

We won't go anywhere if it carries on.

Who funds the Club's operating losses if not the owners?

"On the field", as I stated.

I don't know why people buy a club making a loss in L1 then skimp on the playing side (whilst trying to make a bit less of a loss off the field) - all it leads to is more years making a loss in L1.

I've no idea what's they've spent on the field, but I do know what they are allowed to spend isn't unlimited as it's constrained by our turnover. Them's the rules.

So you think Birminghams turn over is more than ten times ours then. As they spent twenty five million pounds on players last transfer window and of course their wage bill will reflect that.

Do I? And why would it matter what I think anyway? What matters are the rules we have to abide by now. 

msomerton said:

swordfish said:

msomerton said:

swordfish said:

North Lower Neil said:

swordfish said:

North Lower Neil said:

Kindoncasella said:

We keep sacking managers and recruiting average players and expect things to change, madness.

No investment of quality players  = no promotion.

Exactly this.  For all the talk of Methven & Co improving things off the pitch, running things sensibly, owners being excited by the challenge etc etc, the fact is that on the field they have:

- Sold CBT to use the money to fund cheap deals for REG, Gillesphey and a signing on fee for Coventry.
- Tried to sell Dobbo in Jan.
- Sold May to pay for Adadme and Godden.

They've put in so little of their own money really.

There isn't some magic system where you can outwit others - put in their own money, we could have kept Dobson and May, and had better players than Gillesphey, Ahadme, A.Campell.

We won't go anywhere if it carries on.

Who funds the Club's operating losses if not the owners?

"On the field", as I stated.

I don't know why people buy a club making a loss in L1 then skimp on the playing side (whilst trying to make a bit less of a loss off the field) - all it leads to is more years making a loss in L1.

I've no idea what's they've spent on the field, but I do know what they are allowed to spend isn't unlimited as it's constrained by our turnover. Them's the rules.

So you think Birminghams turn over is more than ten times ours then. As they spent twenty five million pounds on players last transfer window and of course their wage bill will reflect that.

Do I? And why would it matter what I think anyway? What matters are the rules we have to abide by now. 

The rules allow wealthy owners to pour as much money as they like into a club and thst is counted as turn over. That is how Birmingham have spent  twenty five million pounds on acquiring players this season alone.

Only allowed to spend up to 60% of what they put in. It has been suggested by some that other restrictions were incoming, but I have to admit I haven't seen anything agreed on that. 

valleynick66 said:

Don’t really get the references to the play offs by some. 

Promotion by whatever means is the only measure of success. 

It will mean little if we finish 6th and lose at Wembley. 

I disagree with this. If we lose the playoff final it would show real progress and be something to build on. Yes, we all want instant success but sometimes a little patience is required. 

SELR_addicks said:

fenaddick said:

SELR_addicks said:

People still buying the line that May moved for his family and not because Jones didn't fancy him and kept benching him towards the end of last season? 

Club propaganda worked a treat. 

Multiple things can be true at the same time 

Would believe you if he did end up in Huddersfield, suddenly family became secondary again once Birmingham came calling...

If Jones wanted to built a side with May as the/a striker, he would still be here. Jones didn't want to. 

Drive from Kent to Doncaster 3.5 to 5 hours time of day dependent

Drive from Birmingham to Doncaster 1.45 to 2.5 hours.

Assuming he is living in Birmingham and not north of there driving in 

Radostanradical said:

SELR_addicks said:

People still buying the line that May moved for his family and not because Jones didn't fancy him and kept benching him towards the end of last season? 

Club propaganda worked a treat. 

I can't be bothered to school you about this again............................................. but i will.

Reasons for Alfie to stay - 

He was playing well here.
Near HIS family.

Reasons for Alfie to leave - 

After a career half of which at lower and non league, he gets a move to a club who will pay him a life changing amount of money.
As mentioned they Triple/Quadruple his wages.
Be near his wife's (who presumably takes the brunt of child care) family so she can visit them more often.
Goes to a club that is pretty much nailed on for success.
Only had a year left on his contract, gets a three year contract on the highest amount he has ever earnt.

Evidence he left because of the opportunity - 

Very little except the LITERAL video he voluntarily did explaining thats why he left.

Evidence he was forced out by the club -

The tin hat brigade on here classing anything they like as "PROpaGANda"

Wow !

so much spin you could be Alistair Campbell in disguise.

None of the text that I've highlighted would have happened if Jones had wanted to keep him. 

Alfie did not put in a transfer request.

We only got one offer in (from Huddersfield) once Jones had told him that he could look for another club. The "trebled" wages only came about because Birmingham stepped in at the 11th hour (Alfie had already agreed terms with Huddersfield & was up there about to sign) and offered him a deal he couldn't turn down. So good that he decided that being close to his wife's family in Yorkshire was now not a factor. 

If, in the summer, Nathan had said to Alfie that he was going to be our main striker and wanted him here he would be facing Wrexham on Saturday. 

The fact that Nathan Jones didn't want Alfie, has fallen out with him by the end of last season and then was happy to let him leave is all down to Nathan Jones. 

Apart from Birmingham and possibly Wrexham, there is no consistency from the chasing sides and Wrexham are not clear of a chasing pack. As much as Bielik's comments were used against his team, he was right and we all know that, Birmingham may slip up now and again but they will put that many wins on the board that the slips won't matter, so that leaves five places, second place being the target. For us, the season couldn't started better but there was always the feeling that we were not dominating at any point in those early games and that our superior fitness was getting us over the line. Nathan Jones felt that too and changed a line up that had won at Shrewsbury, albeit with the same 'playing within ourselves style' for the home defeat against Blackpool. This was followed by an even more abject performance against Stevenage and as if it didn't seem possible, we stunk the place out at Bristol. There is a common denominator in most of the games that we have picked up points, only once have we scored in the first half, against Bolton at home. It could be argued that our forward line was initially experimental with Tyreece Campbell and Gassan Ahadme producing only one goal between them but the pattern hasn't changed even with the now fully fit Matt Godden and Miles Leaburn restored to the front line and in Tuesday's draw at Barnsley we once again showed promise for the first 15 and last 15 mins. There is absolutely no width to this side whatsoever, when Jones first took over, that wasn't the case, both Tennai Watson and Thierry Small were given licence to attack, this has not happened this season with Ramsay and Edwards in the full back berths. Whoever we play up front we have to have delivery from all parts of the pitch, not just through the middle as seems the case now, only then will we see the best of our forwards. A lot of clubs can still make that remaining five places, Charlton certainly can and the large squad will stand them in good stead when other clubs find suspensions and injuries hamper their progress but it's not personnel that is hampering Charlton's progress it's tactics and for three games team selection. If Charlton win against Wrexham then it will be the top two teams beaten, eight points from four games and make the congestion around those five positions even tighter, in the short term a victory will change everyone's attitude to our prospects, but long term, Jones has to let this team attack, he has the players but does he have the bottle?  

If we had kept Alfie, I suspect we would have had a very unhappy player on our hands. Everything else is incedental. The fact his, he got a silly offer and in the context of his career, and what is left of it, it was an offer that might not come around again.

Bailey said:

Radostanradical said:

golfaddick said:

Radostanradical said:

SELR_addicks said:

People still buying the line that May moved for his family and not because Jones didn't fancy him and kept benching him towards the end of last season? 

Club propaganda worked a treat. 

I can't be bothered to school you about this again............................................. but i will.

Reasons for Alfie to stay - 

He was playing well here.
Near HIS family.

Reasons for Alfie to leave - 

After a career half of which at lower and non league, he gets a move to a club who will pay him a life changing amount of money.
As mentioned they Triple/Quadruple his wages.
Be near his wife's (who presumably takes the brunt of child care) family so she can visit them more often.
Goes to a club that is pretty much nailed on for success.
Only had a year left on his contract, gets a three year contract on the highest amount he has ever earnt.

Evidence he left because of the opportunity - 

Very little except the LITERAL video he voluntarily did explaining thats why he left.

Evidence he was forced out by the club -

The tin hat brigade on here classing anything they like as "PROpaGANda"

Wow !

so much spin you could be Alistair Campbell in disguise.

None of the text that I've highlighted would have happened if Jones had wanted to keep him. 

Alfie did not put in a transfer request.

We only got one offer in (from Huddersfield) once Jones had told him that he could look for another club. The "trebled" wages only came about because Birmingham stepped in at the 11th hour (Alfie had already agreed terms with Huddersfield & was up there about to sign) and offered him a deal he couldn't turn down. So good that he decided that being close to his wife's family in Yorkshire was now not a factor. 

If, in the summer, Nathan had said to Alfie that he was going to be our main striker and wanted him here he would be facing Wrexham on Saturday. 

The fact that Nathan Jones didn't want Alfie, has fallen out with him by the end of last season and then was happy to let him leave is all down to Nathan Jones. 

Yeah ok then, so what was the video about where Alfie literally says that ? Was he being held at gun point ?

Why does everyone keep ignoring the fact that Birmingham is significantly closer to Doncaster than Kent. Also its middle ground so he can still be close to his family.

So you are saying if Alfie was here, being played each week getting on with Jones and Birmingham came in to offer him life changing wages he says no thanks I'm happy here ? Pull the other one. 

Also its not difficult to imagine that a team like Birmingham spending the money they have would be interested in the leagues top goalscorer.

Got to say there are good points that you both make. We won't know the full story but I wonder what would have happened had Birmingham or Huddersfield not come in for him and is Nathan Jones recent comments about supporters picking the team for him brought about by the pressure to prove he was right to let Alfie May go, I would imagine he would have had to state his case to Andy Scott at the very least as to why. Fact is the current squad is not fluent going forward and this is where I disagree with Golfie, Alfie May would struggle to score in this team or at least the set up of this team and if you want prove of that look at his goals return after we sold CBT. 

Whilst I'm no sycophant and certainly don't believe the people that own our club are some kind of generous benevolent benefactors with zero self interest, there are a small number who will blame them for literally everything even when the evidence (literally a video he made) is staring them in the face.

I wont argue that Jones may not have been 100% on May being his main man but the idea that he would of said no to Birmingham anyway or teams wouldn't be interested in him is beyond me.