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Ranking the League History of 896 English Men's Teams

JamesSeed
JamesSeed Posts: 17,380
edited December 2024 in General Charlton
It goes without saying we are, as a club, under-performing massively at the moment, and have been for some years.
A few years back I worked out that our average league position would have us ranked about 30th (so around mid table in the Championship), and we are of course a league below that.
I did a Google search this morning for ‘the EFL’s most under performing clubs’, but perhaps surprisingly, nothing much showed up. According to AI, ‘There isn't much info about which EFL clubs are underperforming right now, but here's some related information about the English Football League (EFL):’

However, I did stumble upon this Reddit article, which ranks clubs in terms of league position and ‘prestige’.
I’ve only skim read it, but the outcome is that it ranks Charlton in 38th position, which isn’t too far off the ranking I came up with in 2016. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1d9nsxb/oc_ranking_the_league_history_of_896_english_mens/

For what it’s worth, here’s what i came up with at the end of 2016:

https://jimmyseed.blogspot.com/2016/10/charltons-average-end-of-season-league.html?m=1

This was posted in October 2016 on the first of my Jimmy Seed blogs. The other is the more biographical one which is *still* a work in progress. 

Comments

  • HastingsRed
    HastingsRed Posts: 1,591
    Always thought our 'natural' position was around mid-table of the second tier....but carry on the way we are and this will change.
  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 29,026
    Wow, that geezer has done an incredible amount of work taking it to Teir 9.

    Personally, I was a lot more comfortable thinking about this sort of thing around 2006 than I am now.
  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380
    edited December 2024
    What forgot to add was that you could use that chart to work out a league table for the most underperforming teams in the country. The position in this league/prestige table compared to the actual position. 
    I’m a bit busy to do that at the moment, but it might be quite interesting to see the results. 
  • JaShea99
    JaShea99 Posts: 5,458
    https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/18267630/

    This is cool.
  • jimmymelrose
    jimmymelrose Posts: 9,753
    edited December 2024
    Cool but incorrect.  How can Everton still be the highest prestige club for starters? They weren’t the most prestigious even when they won the league twice in the 80s. 
    There’s so much wrong with this.
    How the hell are they measuring prestige?

    Edit: to answer my own question here are two rules that I disagree with (taken from the Reddit link):

    -only league data is taken into account, since adding cup results probably would've been a little too complicated - and the league data took me a month already! 

    This is nuts if only because Liverpool have won the European Cup six times and the UEFA Cup 3 times.

    -This formula also heavily favours quantity of seasons over quality of seasons - see Chelsea in 13th - which is arguably controversial but I stand by it

    Definitely controversial, at least. Everton have been making up the numbers for 30 years during which time Chelsea have been champions on five occasions.


    There are so many examples of how this measurement of ’prestige’ is wrong.
  • jimmymelrose
    jimmymelrose Posts: 9,753
    Here’s the full list copied:

    Premier League:

    Everton: 16,042.8

    Liverpool: 16,035.4

    Manchester United: 15,859

    Arsenal: 15,749.2

    Aston Villa: 15,550.8

    Manchester City: 14,680

    Newcastle United: 14,229

    Sunderland: 13,968.8

    Tottenham Hotspur: 13,746.4

    West Bromwich Albion: 13,683.8

    Blackburn Rovers: 13,334.6

    Wolverhampton Wanderers: 13,329

    Chelsea: 13,174.8

    Derby County: 13,057.6

    Sheffield Wednesday: 12,866.8

    Bolton Wanderers: 12,815.8

    Sheffield United: 12,470.6

    Nottingham Forest: 12,461.4

    Burnley: 12,228

    Birmingham City: 12,212.2

    Championship:

    21) Leicester City: 12,080.8

    22) Stoke City: 11,924.2

    23) Middlesbrough: 11,828.8

    24) West Ham United: 11,659.2

    25) Preston North End: 11,446.8

    26) Southampton: 10,837.6

    27) Leeds United: 10,535.8

    28) Portsmouth: 9,374.8

    29) Fulham: 9,367.8

    30) Blackpool: 9,356

    31) Notts County: 9,040.4

    32) Huddersfield Town: 8,928.4

    33) Queens Park Rangers: 8,713

    34) Norwich City: 8,698.8

    35) Coventry City: 8,528.2

    36) Bristol City (Also includes league record of Bedminster, who merged into the club): 8,523.4

    37) Crystal Palace: 8,326.8

    38) Charlton Athletic: 8,139.2

    39) Grimsby Town: 8,129.4

    40) Luton Town: 8,061.2

    41) Bury: 8,054.8

    42) Barnsley: 8,018.8

    43) Millwall: 7,845.8

    44) Cardiff City: 7,691.2

    League One:

    45) Hull City: 7,665.6

    46) Watford: 7,649.2

    47) Ipswich Town: 7,407

    48) Reading: 7,294.6

    49) Brighton & Hove Albion: 7,168.4

    50) Oldham Athletic: 7,087.2

    51) Bradford City: 6,844.8

    52) Plymouth Argyle: 6,758.2

    53) Brentford: 6,612.6

    54) Swansea City: 6,602.6

    55) Swindon Town: 6,578.2

    56) Port Vale: 6,365.4

    57) Bristol Rovers: 6,205.6

    58) Leyton Orient: 6,162.6

    59) Lincoln City: 6,065.8

    60) Rotherham United: 5,704.8

    61) Walsall: 5,617

    62) Bournemouth: 5,435.4

    63) Chesterfield: 5,425

    64) Gillingham: 5,409

    65) Stockport County: 5,406.8

    66) Northampton Town: 5,173.4

    67) Southend United: 4,893

    68) Tranmere Rovers: 4,812.2

    League Two:

    69) Crewe Alexandra: 4,795.2

    70) Doncaster Rovers: 4,690.8

    71) Carlisle United: 4,412.4

    72) Exeter City: 4,288.2

    73) Wrexham: 4,200

    74) Rochdale: 3,822.2

    75) Bradford Park Avenue: 3,724.6

    76) Hartlepool United: 3,685.8

    77) Shrewsbury Town: 3,642.8

    78) Mansfield Town: 3,558

    79) Oxford United: 3,510.4

    80) Darlington: 3,365.2

    81) Torquay United: 3,333.2

    82) York City: 3,321.8

    83) Wigan Athletic: 3,277.2

    84) Scunthorpe United: 3,266.2

    85) Colchester United: 3,204.2

    86) Peterborough United: 3,080.6

    Defunct: Halifax Town (1911): 3,080.6

    87) Southport: 2,897

    Defunct: Chester (1885): 2,854.4

    88) Barrow: 2,810.6

    Defunct: Wimbledon: 2,750.8

    Defunct: Newport County (1912): 2,651.2

    89) Cambridge United: 2,281.2

    Defunct: Gateshead (1899): 2,071.4

    Defunct: Aldershot: 2,036.6

    90) Gainsborough Trinity: 1,968

    Defunct: Accrington Stanley (1891): 1,602.2

    91) Wycombe Wanderers: 1,568.4

    92) Yeovil Town: 1,499.8
  • jimmymelrose
    jimmymelrose Posts: 9,753
    JamesSeed said:

    For what it’s worth, here’s what i came up with at the end of 2016:

    https://jimmyseed.blogspot.com/2016/10/charltons-average-end-of-season-league.html?m=1

    This was posted in October 2016 on the first of my Jimmy Seed blogs. The other is the more biographical one which is *still* a work in progress. 
    ’During the 24 year Jimmy Seed era (including the promotions from Div 3 & 2) it was 16th.

    During the First Division years this drops to 11th (1936-1957).’

    Drops to 11th?
  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380
    edited December 2024
    jimmymelrose said:
    JamesSeed said:

    For what it’s worth, here’s what i came up with at the end of 2016:

    https://jimmyseed.blogspot.com/2016/10/charltons-average-end-of-season-league.html?m=1

    This was posted in October 2016 on the first of my Jimmy Seed blogs. The other is the more biographical one which is *still* a work in progress. 
    ’During the 24 year Jimmy Seed era (including the promotions from Div 3 & 2) it was 16th.

    During the First Division years this drops to 11th (1936-1957).’

    Drops to 11th?
    I guess I was thinking It drops to a lower number rather than raises to a higher number?
    Will amend though. Thanks! 👍
  • Leroy Ambrose
    Leroy Ambrose Posts: 14,436
    Still can't beat fucking Palace
  • PrincessFiona
    PrincessFiona Posts: 5,453
    JamesSeed said:
    It goes without saying we are, as a club, under-performing massively at the moment, and have been for some years.
    A few years back I worked out that our average league position would have us ranked about 30th (so around mid table in the Championship), and we are of course a league below that.
    I did a Google search this morning for ‘the EFL’s most under performing clubs’, but perhaps surprisingly, nothing much showed up. According to AI, ‘There isn't much info about which EFL clubs are underperforming right now, but here's some related information about the English Football League (EFL):’

    However, I did stumble upon this Reddit article, which ranks clubs in terms of league position and ‘prestige’.
    I’ve only skim read it, but the outcome is that it ranks Charlton in 38th position, which isn’t too far off the ranking I came up with in 2016. 

    https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1d9nsxb/oc_ranking_the_league_history_of_896_english_mens/

    For what it’s worth, here’s what i came up with at the end of 2016:

    https://jimmyseed.blogspot.com/2016/10/charltons-average-end-of-season-league.html?m=1

    This was posted in October 2016 on the first of my Jimmy Seed blogs. The other is the more biographical one which is *still* a work in progress. 
    Were the Massives top?! Can't really feel quite as negative now SCP is there
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  • conker
    conker Posts: 65
    What fantastic work by both the reddit person and JamesSeed.

    Why do it from 1888 though I thought that serious football only started in 1995!! 

    As I see it this link brings the figures up to 2024, but only shows the top 10. Is there anyway of seeing the whole list?

    And JamesSeed have you thought about updating your original work

    https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/18267630/

  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380
    conker said:
    What fantastic work by both the reddit person and JamesSeed.

    Why do it from 1888 though I thought that serious football only started in 1995!! 

    As I see it this link brings the figures up to 2024, but only shows the top 10. Is there anyway of seeing the whole list?

    And JamesSeed have you thought about updating your original work

    https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/18267630/

    Well I worked out the maths once, and not sure I have the energy to do it all again. And the result would probably mean us slipping down from around 30th to around 35th, so not much of a reward. 🙁

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