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School Uniforms / Formal Wear

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  • Or teachers , going out with the kids.
    I mean, there's a few I wouldn't have been delighted to go out with, but funnily enough they didn't seem that interested in a chubby, spotty 15 year old trying to cover up stale sweat from lunchtime football with Lynx Atlantis.
  • There is debate in the news about school uniforms and the costs, and there is argument that it is essential. 

    As someone who never wore a school uniform, having attended from 76-88 (it wasn't required), I question the need for a uniform and in particular logo items. If the debate is about uniformity, isn't trousers and shirt (white, blue, grey etc) enough (my girls wore trousers).

     I've worked in professional roles for around 35 years and even when asked by management, I've never worn a tie. I've only ever bought a suit to get married. I even refused to wear an NHS issue uniform, when introduced, as it looked like a prison suit. 

    I went into my bank SEB (Sweden) to open an account last year and the bank manager was wearing jeans, trainers and a smart t-shirt, not a logo or tie in sight. This is a far cry from my dad having to wear a suit and tie during his own career as a bank manager at Midlands Bank / HSBC, which he absolutely hated, and has almost never worn one in the 30 years since retiring, only now for weddings and funerals.

    Is formal wear when it isn't a formal occasion really necessary? 

    If you were a junior and refused to wear a tie when requested by management I'd think you were a bit of a brat. 

    Though I think it just winds me up looking at some of the lawyers these days, some of them have gone too far the other way. 


  • Uniforms are becoming a thing of the past in the real world and I think similar needs to happen in school. However there's reasons for it to stay, such as identifying kids trying to play truant/causing mayhem and mischief on their way to/from school, on things like school trips, creating an impression of belonging/being part of a wider group, being able to hide gaps in wealth/class of kids and families, and a certain level of responsibility associated with wearing a uniform. 

    I think the ridiculous pricing needs to go away, and schools need to rethink some of the more outlandish uniform choices that made them hard to get. For instance my primary school was red jumper, navy bottoms, white shirt/polo shirt with just the jumper having a badge, which you could purchase separately and stitch on.

    When I got to secondary school the tie was purple, white and black, the blazer (£75!) had an embroidered badge that couldn't be bought separately, the PE uniform was a white vest with a coloured chest band according to which house you were in, the rugby kit was unique and mandatory, and the school jumper was a dark grey with a wide purple stripe around the neck (again unique and expensive) all in I think my parents spent about 400/500 quid on my uniform, and by year 9 I had grown 4/5 inches and everything was chucked and bought again
  • Social and emotional awareness, which includes why it’s important to follow rules, should absolutely concern any half decent teacher. 
    As should individualism and thinking and reasoning independently, because any half decent teacher will realise that students are not clones of each other.
  • seth plum said:
    I agree. But ought uniform enforcement be a thing to concern teachers?
    The modern world of technology is a new thing compared to my day of, for example, log books and slide rules. Things change over time in education.
    As long as decency is observed what does it matter what school students look like?
    Why is such a desire to control not in effect in most sixth forms?
    My kids had to wear business attire in 6th form ie a suit. 
  • It is ironic that the law requires (for the most part) people to send their children to school.
    So in year six parents are required to list six preferences of secondary school, hoping for the first choice, dreading having to accept the sixth choice.
    So if you have a scenario where the rules oblige you to ‘send’ your children to a school you and your child don’t want to go to, simply refuse to follow the school uniform, hair, make up and other rules and see what the local authority does then.
  • seth plum said:
    As should individualism and thinking and reasoning independently, because any half decent teacher will realise that students are not clones of each other.
    I agree entirely and whilst a uniform can inhibit individualism,especially as students get older, I think the benefits far outweigh that one issue that uniforms cause. 
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  • seth plum said:
    It is ironic that the law requires (for the most part) people to send their children to school.
    So in year six parents are required to list six preferences of secondary school, hoping for the first choice, dreading having to accept the sixth choice.
    So if you have a scenario where the rules oblige you to ‘send’ your children to a school you and your child don’t want to go to, simply refuse to follow the school uniform, hair, make up and other rules and see what the local authority does then.
    So you advocate rebellion because you don’t get your first choice ?

    Strange line of logic linking these separate aspects. 
  • seth plum said:
    It is ironic that the law requires (for the most part) people to send their children to school.
    So in year six parents are required to list six preferences of secondary school, hoping for the first choice, dreading having to accept the sixth choice.
    So if you have a scenario where the rules oblige you to ‘send’ your children to a school you and your child don’t want to go to, simply refuse to follow the school uniform, hair, make up and other rules and see what the local authority does then.
    You can just deregister?
  • So you advocate rebellion because you don’t get your first choice ?

    Strange line of logic linking these separate aspects. 
    I can kind of see where he's coming from. We were fortunate that our son got his first choice secondary school. If he'd got his sixth choice, I am genuinely not sure what we would have done as there is no way in hell I was sending him to that dumpster fire of a 'school'. 
  • Rizzo said:
    Whilst I wasn't a fan of uniform when I was at school, I do understand the need for it and, as a parent, I'm happy for my kids to wear school uniform. What I'm not happy with however, is the blatant gouging of parents with individually embroidered items, multiple sports kits (many of which are never used) etc, etc. There should be a very limited number of items such as a blazer, tie and jumper, which are individual to the school. Everything else, trousers/skirt, shorts, shirts etc should just be of a particular colour and leave parents to buy from wherever they want/can afford. 
    Very good post! Same for me, I didn't like it at the time but came around to it when my kids went to school.  

    Two particular things I remember. The way we rebelled against wearing a tie was to make the knot as big as possible so that it almost looked like a cravat. In my first year of seniors, everyone had loads of kit from a 'recommended' list, with separate football, rugby and athletics shirts. By year two, no-one bothered and everyone just had a plain t-shirt, except for poor old Stinky who just used to roll up his shirt sleeves.
  • Rizzo said:
    I can kind of see where he's coming from. We were fortunate that our son got his first choice secondary school. If he'd got his sixth choice, I am genuinely not sure what we would have done as there is no way in hell I was sending him to that dumpster fire of a 'school'. 
    Quite. But not wearing the required uniform is untelated. You won’t get your preference because you make your child stand out as a rebel. Available spaces is horribly complex and a lottery but a place won’t appear through non adherence to uniform elsewhere. 
  • Posting without reading... the costs are not an issue because the clothes are all expensive, the costs come in when schools demand logos/school emblems and only have 1 compamy selling them.

    You can find trousers/blazers etc very cheap if they can be plain. 
  • Always think that, looking back - how was 17 years old girls having 25 year old boyfriends etc not considered more weird a few decades ago?!

    Almost seemed like it was an unwritten rule that the really fit girls in your year would have older boyfriends and the rest would be left to slum it with kids their own age.

    Now I'm old, I'd think any earth 20s chav picking up his girlfriend from school (unless she works there) is a massive wrong un.
    That was rife at my school. None of the 20 somethings turned up for the leaving party though...
  • You can just deregister?
    Then the issue is where the child goes to school,
  • So you advocate rebellion because you don’t get your first choice ?

    Strange line of logic linking these separate aspects. 
    Is it that strange for parents to not be slung into their sixth choice?
    Seems to me in those circumstances rebellion is a kind of logic.

  • Quite. But not wearing the required uniform is untelated. You won’t get your preference because you make your child stand out as a rebel. Available spaces is horribly complex and a lottery but a place won’t appear through non adherence to uniform elsewhere. 
    Quite. But not wearing the required uniform is untelated. You won’t get your preference because you make your child stand out as a rebel. Available spaces is horribly complex and a lottery but a place won’t appear through non adherence to uniform elsewhere. 
    I agree about the complexity. I am however interested in what schools do if an allocated child never wears the school uniform.
    Should the school expel the child?
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  • seth plum said:
    I agree about the complexity. I am however interested in what schools do if an allocated child never wears the school uniform.
    Should the school expel the child?
    At the school 2 of my grandchildren attend.
    Darrick Wood  secondary. 
    If they turn up without the proper uniform they will get a detention. 
    If this continues I would  ( as their primary carer) ,be told to attend the school for a meeting. 
    There's not a chance the school would change its stance as its very strict when it comes to uniforms being worn.
    So I would imagine that if I refused the kids would probably be excluded and possibly expelled. 
    As it's a very good school it's not a hill I'm prepared to die on.
  • lot's of jobs will be lost from the school uniform shops  and embroiders if this get's pushed through, in the past it was so everyone looked the same and you couldn't tell the wealth side of families apart. Times have changed I suppose but this will have a wider impact.
    I know that's your game (maybe its not, but i know primting is), but it's really not fair for millions of families to pay mental prices on clothes just to keep a few embroiderers in business.

  • edited January 8
    I think school uniforms are a good thing. Stops some kids rocking up in Dior while others wear Primark. Levels the playing field a bit. Gives a sense of purpose while at school. Don’t see need for school logos other than a blazer badge. If the school colour is eg blue then clothing bought from George, M&S or Sainsbury’s should be fine. 
  • Was also at Eltham green from ‘81 and the reversible PE tops they made us get were horrendous. Basically reversible as there was a white band on the inside so you could get put on a green team or white banded team.
    When it rained it was like wearing a lead weighted rucksack on your shoulders.
    They must’ve relaxed the rules while I was there as remember any white or green top was allowed when I outgrew mine.
  • My daughter's school has a blazer with different embroidery indicating house, and year started. Almost certainly no reason for this other than to prevent hand-me-downs. Of course, there is a market for people who can unstitch and re-colour the embroidery. Bear in mind this is a comprehensive and not a private school... it's the same one I went to 30 years ago, and back then you got to wear those cheap-ass acrylic jumpers that electrocuted you when you took them off. Nothing against uniform per se, but there's really no need for every single item being branded.
  • At the school 2 of my grandchildren attend.
    Darrick Wood  secondary. 
    If they turn up without the proper uniform they will get a detention. 
    If this continues I would  ( as their primary carer) ,be told to attend the school for a meeting. 
    There's not a chance the school would change its stance as its very strict when it comes to uniforms being worn.
    So I would imagine that if I refused the kids would probably be excluded and possibly expelled. 
    As it's a very good school it's not a hill I'm prepared to die on.
    Same with my grandchildren’s school 
  • edited January 8
    .
  • Was also at Eltham green from ‘81 and the reversible PE tops they made us get were horrendous. Basically reversible as there was a white band on the inside so you could get put on a green team or white banded team.
    When it rained it was like wearing a lead weighted rucksack on your shoulders.
    They must’ve relaxed the rules while I was there as remember any white or green top was allowed when I outgrew mine.
    I remember that poxy shirt. 
    Like a really thick reversible rugby shirt. 
  • edited January 8
    seth plum said:
    Then the issue is where the child goes to school,
    The sixth choice school or nowhere/online/home schooling.

    Not ideal, but I'm saying you don't have to send them if you're not happy with the choice.  You're not obliged to as you said.
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