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What’s really changed then?

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  • I am watching PSG v Liverpool. PSG are looking a lot better than Liverpool because they are playing on the front foot and really going for them. A bit like Rotherham did to us and Orient at the start of the second half. Liverpool are for me the best team in Europe so it shows you can unsettle teams. Good teams. Of course PSG are a very strong team but I think Liverpool are more likely to win the Champions League than they are. 

    Northampton was when things turned as it was when we started playing with width and Rotherham was one of those games and we need to credit them for their performance that day. I can add Birmingham did it to us in the first half too. It is something we can and probably will improve on but only a decent side can do this which probably suggests Rotherham have under acheived. Being fair, Bolton did it in spells during our recent victory there.
    Ahem. Final score? Got to love a 1-0. 
  • I am watching PSG v Liverpool. PSG are looking a lot better than Liverpool because they are playing on the front foot and really going for them. A bit like Rotherham did to us and Orient at the start of the second half. Liverpool are for me the best team in Europe so it shows you can unsettle teams. Good teams. Of course PSG are a very strong team but I think Liverpool are more likely to win the Champions League than they are. 

    Northampton was when things turned as it was when we started playing with width and Rotherham was one of those games and we need to credit them for their performance that day. I can add Birmingham did it to us in the first half too. It is something we can and probably will improve on but only a decent side can do this which probably suggests Rotherham have under acheived. Being fair, Bolton did it in spells during our recent victory there.
    Ahem. Final score? Got to love a 1-0. 
    The score sort of proved my point.
  • There is a lot to be said about that old bit of football folklore that says don't change a winning team.
  • I don't think you can narrow it down to one thing.

    Jones and Ramsay returning has been huge.

    Using Small and TC to give us width.

    Docherty showing us the player he is.

    The lack of injuries and general fitness meaning lots of late goals and being able to see games out.

    Leaburn returning.

    The slim lined squad meaning nearly all the players bar Gassen are in the mix.

    Macca cutting out the errors and adding some goals.

    Gilbert's corners.

    Losing A Campbell and Potts so perhaps the feeling that player are only here because they knew the gaffer has gone.

    Godden starting on a regular basis.

    Time allowing NJ's philosophy and way of playing to imbed 

    Some luck

    Other teams having a wobble or their own injuries or problems



    Shut the thread! :)
  • Chizz said:
    Here's a set of figures that are worth considering (E&OE).  I have highlighted two important ones. 

    129 
    16 
    24
    29 
    12
    20 
    16 
    74 
    118 
    13 
    34 
    17 
    32
    28 
    50 

    Some will guess what this list represents; and those who do will understand why the first and ninth are highlighted.  

    The list represents the number of league games each Charlton Manager has been in place.  The two highlighted numbers represent the tenures of Chris Powell and Lee Bowyer.  It is no coincidence at all that these two achieved promotion, while all others left the role before they delivered any success.  

    Nathan Jones is now third on the list and is showing signs that he could be the next name on the list to achieve the double of promotion and a century of league games in charge.  
    Everyone knows it takes time to harvest, harden, hone and hoist a squad, over a season.  In the last decade and a half, we've taken twelve opportunities to fail to do exactly that.  This season, we've stuck with slow, gradual success.  And it's paying off.  

    Season after season, Charlton have pulled the trigger on a manager before he's had the chance to succeed or fail.  What's changed over the last few weeks is - in my view - we haven't sacked the manager.  And that's what has caused the successes we're seeing now. 
    But does that prove that giving managers time gets you promoted, or does it prove that getting promoted earns you more time in the job?
    Giving the right manager time to build a team delivers success, BUT only if it's the right person. The wrong manager given more time, will still fail.

    Looking at the managers between Bowyer and Jones - Adkins, Jackson, Garner, Holden, Appleton - how many of them would have delivered success if given more time? Possibly Jackson (who was only removed because TS wanted a different style of football), but none of the other in their time as our manager and their roles afterwards have suggested they were the answer.
  • seth plum said:
    There is a lot to be said about that old bit of football folklore that says don't change a winning team.

    In 2025 you need to change 'team' to 'squad'.

    If we don't get injuries then the cull has worked a treat; if suddenly, Jones, Ramsey, Edwards, Campbell, Coventry, Small, Godden and Leaburn miss any games in the last dozen or more, we could suffer big time.

    Gillesphey can probably be replaced by Mitchell or MacIntyre without too much grief defensively but Macca's 4 goals have kept our momentum going in games where we struggle to score from open play.

    Mitchell, McIntyre, Kanu and Watson have to be ready to fill in if needed.

    Gilbert also can give the team an added dimension from his passes or dead ball accuracy.

    16 player game now on match day and the business end of a match is as important as the 11 who start.

    Taken a while and we are in a good place but zero to hero and back to zero can happen in the blink of a bad pass.

    'One game at a time'
  • Chizz said:
    Here's a set of figures that are worth considering (E&OE).  I have highlighted two important ones. 

    129 
    16 
    24
    29 
    12
    20 
    16 
    74 
    118 
    13 
    34 
    17 
    32
    28 
    50 

    Some will guess what this list represents; and those who do will understand why the first and ninth are highlighted.  

    The list represents the number of league games each Charlton Manager has been in place.  The two highlighted numbers represent the tenures of Chris Powell and Lee Bowyer.  It is no coincidence at all that these two achieved promotion, while all others left the role before they delivered any success.  

    Nathan Jones is now third on the list and is showing signs that he could be the next name on the list to achieve the double of promotion and a century of league games in charge.  
    Everyone knows it takes time to harvest, harden, hone and hoist a squad, over a season.  In the last decade and a half, we've taken twelve opportunities to fail to do exactly that.  This season, we've stuck with slow, gradual success.  And it's paying off.  

    Season after season, Charlton have pulled the trigger on a manager before he's had the chance to succeed or fail.  What's changed over the last few weeks is - in my view - we haven't sacked the manager.  And that's what has caused the successes we're seeing now. 
    So you wanted us to keep Appleton then because you felt he wasn't given a chance to succeed?
  • Pedro45 said:
    It is having a fit squad AND getting the team set-up and tactics right.   That can take time (the gelling factor). Nobody would have thought playing Thierry Small right wing would work wonders, but with him on that side and TC giving width on the left, all of a sudden we have pace that can hurt teams. The return from injury of Ramsey, Leaburn and Jones has also helped massively, and there is now real competition for places. Other players have also now had six months to settle in to not only Jones training and tactics, but to their new surroundings in south east London - it hasn't been easy for Small, Gillesphey, Edwards, Mannion, Docherty, Berry and Godden. Sadly for Ahadme it hasn't worked out, but he's only a Chuks pull hamstring away from being on the bench, and his late season input could still be important.
    Err, people on CL suggested playing Small at RWB some time before Jones tried it.
  • After Crawley at home I knew something had to change. So I chose a new pair of M&S lucky pants to wear to home games and started using a different turnstile. The rest is history.
  • Lloyd Jones returning from injury. He is a leader on the pitch and his presence has a positive impact on the whole team.
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  • Lloyd Jones returning from injury. He is a leader on the pitch and his presence has a positive impact on the whole team.
    Worrying if that's the one difference, because that means we are just one injury away from being awful again.
  • In answer to your ‘one thing’, Small being played on the right. He was brought back into the team against Mansfield after the poor Crawley, Lincoln performances. We drew that one then had the season changer v Northampton.

    with him we gained width, pace, an outlet and a player to carry the ball. There’s been a number of factors to throw into the mix since that Northampton game, but that’s my number one. 
    So who is going to claim the credit for that? Jones said someone suggested it to him in a Christmas card. Was it you @AFKABartram?
    Me - when I bumped into a director in a petrol station in Eltham and said we desperately needed some wingers and he agreed and said we need width - he must of fit straight on the blower to Jones 
  • In the dark days of this season when NJ was sticking to his hoofball tactics there was that moment when he decided to try playing football. Whether that was down to external forces or the realisation that the target men were not good enough to do the job is irrelevant he made the change and we have seen the benefit thank god. For me this explains the absence of Ahadme he doesn’t fit the current style
  • edited March 7
    He has said he didn't instruct the players to play hoofball. I think it was partly due to having to play against low block defences and trying to get behind teams. It is either that or play in front of them which is very comfortable. Yes, there have been many factors and you can't just point at one but the width and the ability to go past players thanks to TC and Small has made something that is comfortable, extremely uncomfortable. Even if they don't have the ball defenders need to be mindful of them and they will often try to double up on one of them but they can't realistically double up on both. This compromises what they are trying to do defensively.

    Also a lack of injuries has been massive. The fixture list has been kind and I think having spells of rest helps with the injuries. I hope we can postpone the Posh game due to internationals. Not because I fear a defeat but it looks a great recharging poing and there are ample opportunities to fit in the game later. I think we have had those recharging points through the season. Wellens was complaining about having the Wrexham game slotted in where it was, even though Orient won it, and a relentless Saturday. Tuesday, Saturday, Tuesday doesn't help. It calls on the squad but who do we replace TC and Small with? Dixon maybe but that is not a guarantee of success. 
  • In answer to your ‘one thing’, Small being played on the right. He was brought back into the team against Mansfield after the poor Crawley, Lincoln performances. We drew that one then had the season changer v Northampton.

    with him we gained width, pace, an outlet and a player to carry the ball. There’s been a number of factors to throw into the mix since that Northampton game, but that’s my number one. 
    So who is going to claim the credit for that? Jones said someone suggested it to him in a Christmas card. Was it you @AFKABartram?
    You're misremembering @Weegie Addick, the card was about not playing Tyreece Campbell at wing back, rather than advocating Small for the job:
    "Asked NJ about Small at RWB: NJ: "Someone sent me a nice little Christmas card asking me not to play TC at right wing back. We don't want to play TC at right wing back but we haven't got an option there. We've asked Thierry, he's been wonderful and I'm proud of the kid.""
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