Can we just start the year in minus six and not bother with the Milwall games?.
Stuff Millwall.
agreed although i'd like to point out that its actually 4 points - we lose away - normally to a last minute flukey goal and we draw at home - its a painful curse the gypo community have on us but we do normally win the games that count - we're the play off finals champs and have an fa cup in our locker so on balance, fuck em
I must be bad luck then, as my visits to The Den have seen us yes lose in last minute last time we played there, but also include a 3-1 stuffing, a 4-0 hammering & another 3-1 stuffing. I was on way to the 2-0 win, but we had to turn back cos the snow was making driving so hazardous.
U have a good record against us, no question but I’d guess your footballing achievements probably rank about level with orient ?
Millwall won the Football League Trophy in 1983, when top flight clubs entered it. So Rothman’s count it as a ‘major trophy’. Therefore pipping the mighty O’s!
It’s major for millwall and rothmans, nobody else
You’re only jealous because Charlton have never won it
Well may you laugh, but if you look at the footage, we were up against some of the the top players in their day, the very best. Took some big scalps. One of our finest hours. 😉
I only disagree with the above in that Stoke and Swansea are on a slippery slope whereas as Sheffield Wednesday are building. I also think that Pompey and Oxford have momentum but definitely Hull and maybe Preston don’t.
There are many posters here expecting mid-table which for me is akin to asking a young (working class) fan what he wants for his birthday this summer and he replying ’I reckon I’ll get the season ticket to the executive box and lounge’ He’s hoping that there’s some big money tucked away somewhere that so far there’s been no evidence of. He should be considering that he lives in a small terraced house whilst most of his friends at his school live in a detached house with a new car on the drive.
Yeah, I do think some of those clubs like Stoke are an absolute mess and apart from Mark Robbins as Manager, have very little going for them, it’s more that, even if they’re on their slippery slope, it’s going to be a whole different kettle of fish trying to get points of them to stay up versus the likes of the teams we faced this season.
I’m sure we’ll add, and I have faith they will be good signings, but at the moment, I look at the XI that started the play off final, and it’s going to be a big jump for most of them
i think Ramsay and Small should be okay. I hope Jones and Gillesphey can hold their own. Edwards will definitely put the required work rate in
of the midfield three, Coventry has been immense this season, but he won’t have the time on the ball as much as he did this season. Docherty I’m not so sure about as I don’t think he particularly tore it up this season in league one, and Berry may have age and injuries to work against
TC will be up against much better defenders and will have to find another level, and for however great Godden has been, he’s the wrong side of 30 and I expect may have to play more of a sub role based on the fact we need better - I’m not knocking him, it’s just that Coventry a competitive championship team felt it was right to release him which was our gain, but he’s going to have to dig deeper as well
At this moment in time we easily have the worse team in the championship. Stoke and Preston are in for massive rebuilds but they have good managers whether such a big turnaround in a short time is risky we have to see. Wednesday Hull and QPR have incompetent ownership they will be right down there this season. Oxford and Portsmouth probably the 2 other weakest sides in terms of quality and budget not sure how likely Derby will be down the bottom with Eustace. We would to improve half our starting XI to stand a chance at this level
At this moment in time we easily have the worse team in the championship. Stoke and Preston are in for massive rebuilds but they have good managers whether such a big turnaround in a short time is risky we have to see. Wednesday Hull and QPR have incompetent ownership they will be right down there this season. Oxford and Portsmouth probably the 2 other weakest sides in terms of quality and budget not sure how likely Derby will be down the bottom with Eustace. We would to improve half our starting XI to stand a chance at this level
Debate that we are worse than Wrexham, been better than them for the last 6 months and our squad has players developing on the up that could develop into championship players next season
Not saying we will finish above them as they will most likely spend a fortune, but if both clubs played a championship season now I think we’d do better than them
Can we just start the year in minus six and not bother with the Milwall games?.
Stuff Millwall.
agreed although i'd like to point out that its actually 4 points - we lose away - normally to a last minute flukey goal and we draw at home - its a painful curse the gypo community have on us but we do normally win the games that count - we're the play off finals champs and have an fa cup in our locker so on balance, fuck em
I must be bad luck then, as my visits to The Den have seen us yes lose in last minute last time we played there, but also include a 3-1 stuffing, a 4-0 hammering & another 3-1 stuffing. I was on way to the 2-0 win, but we had to turn back cos the snow was making driving so hazardous.
U have a good record against us, no question but I’d guess your footballing achievements probably rank about level with orient ?
Millwall won the Football League Trophy in 1983, when top flight clubs entered it. So Rothman’s count it as a ‘major trophy’. Therefore pipping the mighty O’s!
Absolutely nobody counts it as a major trophy.
Having just looked it up, there wasn't a single big club that entered it.
The 4 semi-finalists were Millwall, Reading, Lincoln (all in the old division 3 at the time) and Chester (division 4). One of the semi finals had an attendance of 1.058, and the attendance for the final was 3,142.
Division One Runners-Up, Watford played in it, mate.
Should have had a European place tbf.
They did get a European place, played in the UEFA Cup.
But like i said, no big clubs played in it.
Millwall played in the UEFA because they were FA Cup Runners-Up in 2004.
I am saying that the 1983 Football League Trophy should have come with a European place, as it featured top flight clubs, including the First Division (top flight) runners-up, Watford, and a decent Norwich City side. And because top flight games played in it, it is considered a ‘major’ trophy.
I only disagree with the above in that Stoke and Swansea are on a slippery slope whereas as Sheffield Wednesday are building. I also think that Pompey and Oxford have momentum but definitely Hull and maybe Preston don’t.
There are many posters here expecting mid-table which for me is akin to asking a young (working class) fan what he wants for his birthday this summer and he replying ’I reckon I’ll get the season ticket to the executive box and lounge’ He’s hoping that there’s some big money tucked away somewhere that so far there’s been no evidence of. He should be considering that he lives in a small terraced house whilst most of his friends at his school live in a detached house with a new car on the drive.
Yeah, I do think some of those clubs like Stoke are an absolute mess and apart from Mark Robbins as Manager, have very little going for them, it’s more that, even if they’re on their slippery slope, it’s going to be a whole different kettle of fish trying to get points of them to stay up versus the likes of the teams we faced this season.
I’m sure we’ll add, and I have faith they will be good signings, but at the moment, I look at the XI that started the play off final, and it’s going to be a big jump for most of them
i think Ramsay and Small should be okay. I hope Jones and Gillesphey can hold their own. Edwards will definitely put the required work rate in
of the midfield three, Coventry has been immense this season, but he won’t have the time on the ball as much as he did this season. Docherty I’m not so sure about as I don’t think he particularly tore it up this season in league one, and Berry may have age and injuries to work against
TC will be up against much better defenders and will have to find another level, and for however great Godden has been, he’s the wrong side of 30 and I expect may have to play more of a sub role based on the fact we need better - I’m not knocking him, it’s just that Coventry a competitive championship team felt it was right to release him which was our gain, but he’s going to have to dig deeper as well
Agreed.
People saying Stoke City… they have some decent players & good financial backing. They appointed a manager with good pedigree. To finish above them with the current squad would take some doing imo.
Vulnerable clubs are Portsmouth, Preston and Hull City. Imo. Oxford will be fine under Rowett. Imo.
At this moment in time we easily have the worse team in the championship. Stoke and Preston are in for massive rebuilds but they have good managers whether such a big turnaround in a short time is risky we have to see. Wednesday Hull and QPR have incompetent ownership they will be right down there this season. Oxford and Portsmouth probably the 2 other weakest sides in terms of quality and budget not sure how likely Derby will be down the bottom with Eustace. We would to improve half our starting XI to stand a chance at this level
Not so sure about that.
Wrexham are not much better and their aging team will be another year older. Although of course they will spend money.
I wouldn't say we're worse than Preston either. Ok they beat us narrowly in the cup, but i felt we had the better of the game and we had Mitchell playing instead of Ramsay and Ahadme up front instead of Godden.
At this moment in time we easily have the worse team in the championship. Stoke and Preston are in for massive rebuilds but they have good managers whether such a big turnaround in a short time is risky we have to see. Wednesday Hull and QPR have incompetent ownership they will be right down there this season. Oxford and Portsmouth probably the 2 other weakest sides in terms of quality and budget not sure how likely Derby will be down the bottom with Eustace. We would to improve half our starting XI to stand a chance at this level
Debate that we are worse than Wrexham, been better than them for the last 6 months and our squad has players developing on the up that could develop into championship players next season
Not saying we will finish above them as they will most likely spend a fortune, but if both clubs played a championship season now I think we’d do better than them
Well maybe but there is the little matter that they very recently put three past us without return.
At this moment in time we easily have the worse team in the championship. Stoke and Preston are in for massive rebuilds but they have good managers whether such a big turnaround in a short time is risky we have to see. Wednesday Hull and QPR have incompetent ownership they will be right down there this season. Oxford and Portsmouth probably the 2 other weakest sides in terms of quality and budget not sure how likely Derby will be down the bottom with Eustace. We would to improve half our starting XI to stand a chance at this level
Debate that we are worse than Wrexham, been better than them for the last 6 months and our squad has players developing on the up that could develop into championship players next season
Not saying we will finish above them as they will most likely spend a fortune, but if both clubs played a championship season now I think we’d do better than them
Well maybe but there is the little matter that they very recently put three past us without return.
Quite. Why there is a tendency on here to underestimate Wrexham I really don't know. League 1 was going to find them out apparently. It didn't. They got automatically promoted out of it, and deservedly so.
That said, we can't be easily the worst Championship team having never played any games in it yet. Weakest squad on paper? Maybe, but again, yet to be proven. Do we need to strengthen? Of course, but we will, so let's wait and see where we and others are when the season begins before making predictions.
This board was held up in a Welcome to Wrexham episode. Decent wedge but not Championship levels. I hear that they now have a new partner in Kaleen Allyn to fill that gap?
Either way, when you consider the expertise that exists throughout the English Pyramid, you have to wonder how two know nothing Yanks turn up out of nowhere and wipe the floor with pretty much everyone else. They appointed Shaun Harvey former EFL CEO as adviser and Phil Parkinson early doors and from what I could make out were prepared to push the boat out to buy in a striker or two when required.
I dunno about circus, but there is a bit of the magic circle about it.
The Wrexham money is partly because they can get sponsors that other clubs at that level can’t. Interesting to see how that fares in the Championship. I wrongly thought L1 would be their ceiling so have got no idea what will happen to them next season
At this moment in time we easily have the worse team in the championship. Stoke and Preston are in for massive rebuilds but they have good managers whether such a big turnaround in a short time is risky we have to see. Wednesday Hull and QPR have incompetent ownership they will be right down there this season. Oxford and Portsmouth probably the 2 other weakest sides in terms of quality and budget not sure how likely Derby will be down the bottom with Eustace. We would to improve half our starting XI to stand a chance at this level
Debate that we are worse than Wrexham, been better than them for the last 6 months and our squad has players developing on the up that could develop into championship players next season
Not saying we will finish above them as they will most likely spend a fortune, but if both clubs played a championship season now I think we’d do better than them
Well maybe but there is the little matter that they very recently put three past us without return.
I think one game where we had 3 key players injured is not as good as 6 months of league football in judging who the better team is. Were we suddenly a better football team than Birmingham in October when we beat them in 1 game?
I think people and the bookies might be overestimating Wrexham this season.
The hollywood hype and decent investment has carried them this far but the Championship is a different level, they have a small stadium and even their celebrity owners are not mega-rich at this level.
They have an even smaller stadium next season, the temporary stand is being taken down ready to start building a new permanent stand which will take a while.
I think people and the bookies might be overestimating Wrexham this season.
The hollywood hype and decent investment has carried them this far but the Championship is a different level, they have a small stadium and even their celebrity owners are not mega-rich at this level.
I think they will finish bottom 10.
To be fair, i thought that last summer and look what happened.
There's a lot to be said for momentum and i think their small stadium works in their favour, as it'll be a tough place for a lot of teams to go to.
I think Parkinson is one of the best Managers to have in charge of your club at League One level, and is what got them over the line, he's never really had a solid run of it in the Championship with a club.
Lasted less than half a season at Hull Got relegated with us when we were a mess Barely survived with the mess that was Bolton, then relegated with them the next.
This is really his first opportunity so will be a minor question mark I think.
Reckon Wrexham will go down personally. Phil Parkinson is just not a good enough manager at this level and they'll get found out against the better sides. Momentum can only take you so far.
The Plymouth champions from 2022/23 were a much better side and stayed up by just 1 point in 23/24, and have course just been relegated. That Plymouth team had far more quality and a better style.
Ourselves, Wrexham, Preston, Hull, Stoke and probably Oxford, that's your clear favourites to go down.
We do have one of the worst squads on paper, you can go through every champ side and find that out for yourself.
The only thing we have going for us mainly, other than a handful of good players is Nathan Jones, a manager very accustomed to this league, a manager that navigated Luton town to a championship play-off semi, and got Luton mid-table the year prior and earned himself manager of the season.
That's our x-factor this season. Without him we would probably be buggered.
Reckon Wrexham will go down personally. Phil Parkinson is just not a good enough manager at this level and they'll get found out against the better sides. Momentum can only take you so far.
The Plymouth champions from 2022/23 were a much better side and stayed up by just 1 point in 23/24, and have course just been relegated. That Plymouth team had far more quality and a better style.
Ourselves, Wrexham, Preston, Hull, Stoke and probably Oxford, that's your clear favourites to go down.
We do have one of the worst squads on paper, you can go through every champ side and find that out for yourself.
The only thing we have going for us mainly, other than a handful of good players is Nathan Jones, a manager very accustomed to this league, a manager that navigated Luton town to a championship play-off semi, and got Luton mid-table the year prior and earned himself manager of the season.
That's our x-factor this season. Without him we would probably be buggered.
Unfortunately I don’t think Wrexham will go down as they will spend money to get the players but I agree I don’t think parkey will last until Xmas he was already getting stick from fans this season and I don’t think he is good enough for championship football. Again agree about Jones I’m confident we will stay up because of him, the football might not be great next season but he will find a way to secure the points required I think
over the course of our history, I think our average position is mid table in the 2nd division (now Championship).
for me 4th bottom would be an achievement because football has changed so much over the last 30 years since the mid 90s when we were last a stable championship/div 2 team. The money sloshing about now is obscene, and given the fact we’ve had 11 seasons in league one since 2009, we’re not a big club in that division anymore, despite history showing it’s where we belong (on average).
the 19/20 season was harsh. Duchatelet had given up and Bowyer and Gallen had to rely on getting fortunate with the likes of Cullen rejoining and a coup in Gallagher signing on loan, but ultimately the team/squad just didn’t have enough. There were mitigating circumstances, Lyle Taylor getting injured for a chunk of the season didn’t help as he was out talisman, and then of course his decision not to come back post Covid. Losing Gallagher was a blow, and it also came at a time when Taylor was out, so all of a sudden, Bowyer is naming youngsters and we had a lot of damaging results, conceding stupid last minute goals as well.
But, there were some decent performances that season. We started very well, the momentum of the playoff final. The draws at WBA/Fulham away, and then when Taylor came back from injury just before Covid, a draw at home to Fulham and win at Forest
We almost did it but ultimately fell short, and I expect nothing different this season.
You’ve also got to look at the dynamic of the division. Ipswich and Soton coming down from the Prem. Wrexham and Brum with their stupid money. Sheff Utd. There are going to be some big teams, with much better players than us playing quicker football than we’re used to. Even the teams that aren’t big spenders, have recent experience of being in the Prem, Swansea, Stoke, MBoro, Blackburn (at a push). They may not have been prem clubs for a while, but their fanbases remember, and will likely be as agitated as were at being in the championship for a while now
their expectations may have been tempered some what, but these are all teams that are more established in the champ than us. Even getting points of these will be tough
we don’t know how the summer will pan out, but looking at it now, I’d say we’re potentially fighting with Oxford, Pompey, Sheff Wed, and a few others to stay out that bottom three. That’s all I want personally
I think people and the bookies might be overestimating Wrexham this season.
The hollywood hype and decent investment has carried them this far but the Championship is a different level, they have a small stadium and even their celebrity owners are not mega-rich at this level.
I think they will finish bottom 10.
To be fair, i thought that last summer and look what happened.
There's a lot to be said for momentum and i think their small stadium works in their favour, as it'll be a tough place for a lot of teams to go to.
They also have massive commercial revenue. Those commercial figures where they dwarf lots of teams are from their League 2 season, not L1. They get sponsors like Tiktok, Delta and Gatorade, not North Wales Plumbers and the like. They'll be safe next season, maybe midtable. Then they'll move on from Parkinson.
It's teams like Oxford and Preston who we could compete with like-for-like.
I’ve always thought Wrexham would keep getting promoted until they hit the Championship and that’s where the rapid growth would slow down.
That’s unless they get significant further investment of course.
It’s one thing to spend a couple of hundred thousand and league 1 level wages on league 1 quality players to get you out of the national league and league 2. Followed by a few million on top league 1 and aging championship players to get out of league 1.
I don’t see how they can possibly do that in the championship because the fees and wages to bring in top Championship and aging premier league players would be outrageous.
I think we’ll see a bit of a change in strategy from them now which will see them signing top league 1 and decent championship players.
10th - 20th would be my prediction for them next season based on that.
The Wrexham money is partly because they can get sponsors that other clubs at that level can’t. Interesting to see how that fares in the Championship. I wrongly thought L1 would be their ceiling so have got no idea what will happen to them next season
They do better commercially than some PL clubs. They’ll be fine from that point of view.
A lot of teams finishing mid-table by the sounds of things, and I really don't see it.
Sheffield United, Southampton, Leicester, Ipswich, Norwich, Boro, Coventry, Birmingham, West Brom. I'd be surprised if any of those finish outside the top12.
Then you've got the likes of Swansea, Millwall, Watford, Blackburn, Sheffield Wednesday, Bristol City who are consistent championship sides.
That's 15 sides before we even look at sides like Pompey, Oxford, QPR, who stayed up fairly comfortably in the end.
I think 21st would be an incredible achievement. This league is hell like league1, just way more exciting cause of the magnitude.
Typical the year we finally come up we get thrown into what’s probably the most difficult championship in years realistically there’s only maximum 6-7 teams who are likely to be in the relegation scrap
Typical the year we finally come up we get thrown into what’s probably the most difficult championship in years realistically there’s only maximum 6-7 teams who are likely to be in the relegation scrap
I think it is because of missing out on tv deal when it first got signed. Wage spends are now double. Therefore, even though Preston may be one of the weaker clubs, we still need to catch up in terms of wages by more than doubling our wage spend. Plymouth are a well run club, bar the Rooney mistake. They have good players. They only hacked two seasons. It is getting harder to make up on the wages, unless you are an already big club spending relatively big on wages on promotion from L1 (eg Ipswich, Wednesday, Sunderland, Derby).
Listened to the Football Weekly podcast a bit earlier. They think CAFC will be just fine in the Championship next season and said those that will be in for a battle had wished Orient had come up rather than us to relieve the pressure. Odds will change for the better over the next 6 weeks or so…
Comments
I’m sure we’ll add, and I have faith they will be good signings, but at the moment, I look at the XI that started the play off final, and it’s going to be a big jump for most of them
i think Ramsay and Small should be okay. I hope Jones and Gillesphey can hold their own. Edwards will definitely put the required work rate in
of the midfield three, Coventry has been immense this season, but he won’t have the time on the ball as much as he did this season. Docherty I’m not so sure about as I don’t think he particularly tore it up this season in league one, and Berry may have age and injuries to work against
TC will be up against much better defenders and will have to find another level, and for however great Godden has been, he’s the wrong side of 30 and I expect may have to play more of a sub role based on the fact we need better - I’m not knocking him, it’s just that Coventry a competitive championship team felt it was right to release him which was our gain, but he’s going to have to dig deeper as well
Not saying we will finish above them as they will most likely spend a fortune, but if both clubs played a championship season now I think we’d do better than them
I am saying that the 1983 Football League Trophy should have come with a European place, as it featured top flight clubs, including the First Division (top flight) runners-up, Watford, and a decent Norwich City side. And because top flight games played in it, it is considered a ‘major’ trophy.
Wrexham are not much better and their aging team will be another year older. Although of course they will spend money.
I wouldn't say we're worse than Preston either. Ok they beat us narrowly in the cup, but i felt we had the better of the game and we had Mitchell playing instead of Ramsay and Ahadme up front instead of Godden.
Are we that much worse than Oxford?
Quite. Why there is a tendency on here to underestimate Wrexham I really don't know. League 1 was going to find them out apparently. It didn't. They got automatically promoted out of it, and deservedly so.
That said, we can't be easily the worst Championship team having never played any games in it yet. Weakest squad on paper? Maybe, but again, yet to be proven. Do we need to strengthen? Of course, but we will, so let's wait and see where we and others are when the season begins before making predictions.
Either way, when you consider the expertise that exists throughout the English Pyramid, you have to wonder how two know nothing Yanks turn up out of nowhere and wipe the floor with pretty much everyone else. They appointed Shaun Harvey former EFL CEO as adviser and Phil Parkinson early doors and from what I could make out were prepared to push the boat out to buy in a striker or two when required.
I dunno about circus, but there is a bit of the magic circle about it.
The hollywood hype and decent investment has carried them this far but the Championship is a different level, they have a small stadium and even their celebrity owners are not mega-rich at this level.
I think they will finish bottom 10.
There's a lot to be said for momentum and i think their small stadium works in their favour, as it'll be a tough place for a lot of teams to go to.
Lasted less than half a season at Hull
Got relegated with us when we were a mess
Barely survived with the mess that was Bolton, then relegated with them the next.
This is really his first opportunity so will be a minor question mark I think.
The Plymouth champions from 2022/23 were a much better side and stayed up by just 1 point in 23/24, and have course just been relegated. That Plymouth team had far more quality and a better style.
Ourselves, Wrexham, Preston, Hull, Stoke and probably Oxford, that's your clear favourites to go down.
We do have one of the worst squads on paper, you can go through every champ side and find that out for yourself.
The only thing we have going for us mainly, other than a handful of good players is Nathan Jones, a manager very accustomed to this league, a manager that navigated Luton town to a championship play-off semi, and got Luton mid-table the year prior and earned himself manager of the season.
That's our x-factor this season. Without him we would probably be buggered.
It’s one thing to spend a couple of hundred thousand and league 1 level wages on league 1 quality players to get you out of the national league and league 2. Followed by a few million on top league 1 and aging championship players to get out of league 1.
I don’t see how they can possibly do that in the championship because the fees and wages to bring in top Championship and aging premier league players would be outrageous.
We have done this once and had to suffer another 5 seasons of turgid league 1 tripe.
All I want is to move on, happily slowly but just no league 1 ever again
Sheffield United, Southampton, Leicester, Ipswich, Norwich, Boro, Coventry, Birmingham, West Brom. I'd be surprised if any of those finish outside the top12.
Then you've got the likes of Swansea, Millwall, Watford, Blackburn, Sheffield Wednesday, Bristol City who are consistent championship sides.
That's 15 sides before we even look at sides like Pompey, Oxford, QPR, who stayed up fairly comfortably in the end.
I think 21st would be an incredible achievement. This league is hell like league1, just way more exciting cause of the magnitude.