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UK to allow driverless cars from January.

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  • Huskaris said:
    Jints said:
    uncle said:
    Will driving test become a thing of the past?
    Yes. I’ve already said to my children (oldest is 17) that it’s probably not worth bothering.  I reckon that driverless cars will be available to buy by 2030 or otherwise it’ll be more like all driverless cars are effectively like taxis.
    I read about this after the Brexit vote and at that time there were predictions that 80% of urban journeys would be completed by driverless cars in ten years time... so 2026/27.

    We are behind that curve but the use case remains the same: why learn to drive and why invest £10-30K in a car that sits around most of the time when one can simply use an Uber App or competitor to summons a driverless car for any trip? And let's not forget fuel, maintenance and insurance.

    It may soon become much, much cheaper to live in a built up area?
    The transformational effect it could have on cities and suburbs too. The amount of space dedicated to car related infrastructure just to accommodate them being parked for the majority of the time. We could see much more outdoor  seating for dining and eating at restaurants like in European cities. More greenery instead of parking spaces. Nicely done front gardens instead of drives. Trees giving shade to combat the urban heat island effect and improve air quality. 
    Of course our weather may dictate otherwise for outdoor dining!

    More seriously though if more of us use these driverless cars that will still see a lot of cars on the road and in need of infrastructure as you put it. Not sure how it translates to saved space  significantly. 
    It was in response to the suggestion of calling a driverless car via an app or subscription service rather than owning it. 

    The vast majority of cars spend more than 90% if the time parked. Of we move the the above model then a) there would be far fewer cars needing to be parked as theybwill be off on another job for another customer and b) cars wouldn't need to be parked in residential or city centre areas as they can drive themselves to a suitable parking place in a less busy area. 

    Therefore more space

    All round a much better allocation of resource.
    Hmmm. I’m not sure that in Greater London this fleet of cars can all overnight park up in country lanes further out!

    Maybe we will build huge car parks on the borders of the M25 and see a swarm of cars all driving in to London in the early hours ready for the morning rush hour. That wound be eerie!

    long term they will be the norm I’m sure but likely some time beyond that before any material change to re purposing road space. 
    There will be far fewer cars. If cars spend 90% of their time parked, in theory you need about 90% fewer cars if they’re being used all the time. 
    Only if the 10% when they are being driven is evenly spaced. In fact that will be peaks of demands at commuting times but you would still see a significant reduction- I'd guess more like 50% though
    Yes, likely about right. But thats still 50% fewer cars needing ton e parked and therefore 50% or more of existing parking spaces that can be repurposed.
    But….

    Most parking is in side / suburban roads who maybe don’t have a driveway. I don’t see how that changes materially those areas. Likewise in city centre areas wound still be needed to arrive at / load etc. 

    As said a long time before any land us reclaimed to change the look and feel of areas even when such cars are commonplace. 
    Sure it wont be immediate but there is definite scope for this to happen. Its happened in cities like Amsterdam and Paris in areas where they have discouraged car use. In places where there arent drives on street parking is common (many places have both drives and on street parking). If we move away from the car ownership model then that on street parking is not needed to the same extent at all. There will need to be some spaces for loading, unloading, delivery, pick ups etc but if these are all generally short stops then there is a massively lower need for these. So space previously given to street parking can either be given to road space to improve flow (likely to be unnecessary in many cases in suburbia) or to grass verges and trees. Or many a bit of both, street parking on one side of the road given to road space and the other side given to trees and verges with pull in spaces every 100 yards?. I saw a graphic a few months ago showing what proportion of cities are used for parked car infrastructure. Not moving cars but parked. Its a scary proportion of the land space in cities. I'll try and dig it out.
    What you describe is simply what roads looked like a generation ago when homes did not typically have more than one car and many had none. 

    It may well transpire and will be influenced by what  happens to public transport and how affordable these shared cars are or if they become the privilege of the wealthy. Only time will tell.
    Yes and returning to such would be transformational and of huge benefit. 

    I've said enough on this forum about funding and improving public transport so I wont get started down that route! Given the lack of up front costs and admin such as insurance maintenance and tax these subscription services (as seen with Uber etc) have much lower barriers to entry compared with purchasing a car. Better public transport would reduce the need for them which is ideal but these are good options.
    If they could make longer distance drives economical rather than equivalent of an existing taxi, as well as being able to get bigger van size ones to load stuff into, I could see it really transforming. 

    Could supercharge the move to electric, if let's say, you go 300 miles in car A then get out a service station, hope straight into car B and get going... 

    If both of the above could happen I would consider giving up my car. 
    Long distance travel - train 

    Local travel - autonomous car 

    Large payload vehicle - electric van  
  • Chizz said:
    Huskaris said:
    Jints said:
    uncle said:
    Will driving test become a thing of the past?
    Yes. I’ve already said to my children (oldest is 17) that it’s probably not worth bothering.  I reckon that driverless cars will be available to buy by 2030 or otherwise it’ll be more like all driverless cars are effectively like taxis.
    I read about this after the Brexit vote and at that time there were predictions that 80% of urban journeys would be completed by driverless cars in ten years time... so 2026/27.

    We are behind that curve but the use case remains the same: why learn to drive and why invest £10-30K in a car that sits around most of the time when one can simply use an Uber App or competitor to summons a driverless car for any trip? And let's not forget fuel, maintenance and insurance.

    It may soon become much, much cheaper to live in a built up area?
    The transformational effect it could have on cities and suburbs too. The amount of space dedicated to car related infrastructure just to accommodate them being parked for the majority of the time. We could see much more outdoor  seating for dining and eating at restaurants like in European cities. More greenery instead of parking spaces. Nicely done front gardens instead of drives. Trees giving shade to combat the urban heat island effect and improve air quality. 
    Of course our weather may dictate otherwise for outdoor dining!

    More seriously though if more of us use these driverless cars that will still see a lot of cars on the road and in need of infrastructure as you put it. Not sure how it translates to saved space  significantly. 
    It was in response to the suggestion of calling a driverless car via an app or subscription service rather than owning it. 

    The vast majority of cars spend more than 90% if the time parked. Of we move the the above model then a) there would be far fewer cars needing to be parked as theybwill be off on another job for another customer and b) cars wouldn't need to be parked in residential or city centre areas as they can drive themselves to a suitable parking place in a less busy area. 

    Therefore more space

    All round a much better allocation of resource.
    Hmmm. I’m not sure that in Greater London this fleet of cars can all overnight park up in country lanes further out!

    Maybe we will build huge car parks on the borders of the M25 and see a swarm of cars all driving in to London in the early hours ready for the morning rush hour. That wound be eerie!

    long term they will be the norm I’m sure but likely some time beyond that before any material change to re purposing road space. 
    There will be far fewer cars. If cars spend 90% of their time parked, in theory you need about 90% fewer cars if they’re being used all the time. 
    Only if the 10% when they are being driven is evenly spaced. In fact that will be peaks of demands at commuting times but you would still see a significant reduction- I'd guess more like 50% though
    Yes, likely about right. But thats still 50% fewer cars needing ton e parked and therefore 50% or more of existing parking spaces that can be repurposed.
    But….

    Most parking is in side / suburban roads who maybe don’t have a driveway. I don’t see how that changes materially those areas. Likewise in city centre areas wound still be needed to arrive at / load etc. 

    As said a long time before any land us reclaimed to change the look and feel of areas even when such cars are commonplace. 
    Sure it wont be immediate but there is definite scope for this to happen. Its happened in cities like Amsterdam and Paris in areas where they have discouraged car use. In places where there arent drives on street parking is common (many places have both drives and on street parking). If we move away from the car ownership model then that on street parking is not needed to the same extent at all. There will need to be some spaces for loading, unloading, delivery, pick ups etc but if these are all generally short stops then there is a massively lower need for these. So space previously given to street parking can either be given to road space to improve flow (likely to be unnecessary in many cases in suburbia) or to grass verges and trees. Or many a bit of both, street parking on one side of the road given to road space and the other side given to trees and verges with pull in spaces every 100 yards?. I saw a graphic a few months ago showing what proportion of cities are used for parked car infrastructure. Not moving cars but parked. Its a scary proportion of the land space in cities. I'll try and dig it out.
    What you describe is simply what roads looked like a generation ago when homes did not typically have more than one car and many had none. 

    It may well transpire and will be influenced by what  happens to public transport and how affordable these shared cars are or if they become the privilege of the wealthy. Only time will tell.
    Yes and returning to such would be transformational and of huge benefit. 

    I've said enough on this forum about funding and improving public transport so I wont get started down that route! Given the lack of up front costs and admin such as insurance maintenance and tax these subscription services (as seen with Uber etc) have much lower barriers to entry compared with purchasing a car. Better public transport would reduce the need for them which is ideal but these are good options.
    If they could make longer distance drives economical rather than equivalent of an existing taxi, as well as being able to get bigger van size ones to load stuff into, I could see it really transforming. 

    Could supercharge the move to electric, if let's say, you go 300 miles in car A then get out a service station, hope straight into car B and get going... 

    If both of the above could happen I would consider giving up my car. 
    Long distance travel - train 

    Local travel - autonomous car 

    Large payload vehicle - electric van  
    I don't want to spend an hour and a half getting to Paddington to then get on a train to Wales, I'd rather drive. 
  • Chizz said:
    Huskaris said:
    Jints said:
    uncle said:
    Will driving test become a thing of the past?
    Yes. I’ve already said to my children (oldest is 17) that it’s probably not worth bothering.  I reckon that driverless cars will be available to buy by 2030 or otherwise it’ll be more like all driverless cars are effectively like taxis.
    I read about this after the Brexit vote and at that time there were predictions that 80% of urban journeys would be completed by driverless cars in ten years time... so 2026/27.

    We are behind that curve but the use case remains the same: why learn to drive and why invest £10-30K in a car that sits around most of the time when one can simply use an Uber App or competitor to summons a driverless car for any trip? And let's not forget fuel, maintenance and insurance.

    It may soon become much, much cheaper to live in a built up area?
    The transformational effect it could have on cities and suburbs too. The amount of space dedicated to car related infrastructure just to accommodate them being parked for the majority of the time. We could see much more outdoor  seating for dining and eating at restaurants like in European cities. More greenery instead of parking spaces. Nicely done front gardens instead of drives. Trees giving shade to combat the urban heat island effect and improve air quality. 
    Of course our weather may dictate otherwise for outdoor dining!

    More seriously though if more of us use these driverless cars that will still see a lot of cars on the road and in need of infrastructure as you put it. Not sure how it translates to saved space  significantly. 
    It was in response to the suggestion of calling a driverless car via an app or subscription service rather than owning it. 

    The vast majority of cars spend more than 90% if the time parked. Of we move the the above model then a) there would be far fewer cars needing to be parked as theybwill be off on another job for another customer and b) cars wouldn't need to be parked in residential or city centre areas as they can drive themselves to a suitable parking place in a less busy area. 

    Therefore more space

    All round a much better allocation of resource.
    Hmmm. I’m not sure that in Greater London this fleet of cars can all overnight park up in country lanes further out!

    Maybe we will build huge car parks on the borders of the M25 and see a swarm of cars all driving in to London in the early hours ready for the morning rush hour. That wound be eerie!

    long term they will be the norm I’m sure but likely some time beyond that before any material change to re purposing road space. 
    There will be far fewer cars. If cars spend 90% of their time parked, in theory you need about 90% fewer cars if they’re being used all the time. 
    Only if the 10% when they are being driven is evenly spaced. In fact that will be peaks of demands at commuting times but you would still see a significant reduction- I'd guess more like 50% though
    Yes, likely about right. But thats still 50% fewer cars needing ton e parked and therefore 50% or more of existing parking spaces that can be repurposed.
    But….

    Most parking is in side / suburban roads who maybe don’t have a driveway. I don’t see how that changes materially those areas. Likewise in city centre areas wound still be needed to arrive at / load etc. 

    As said a long time before any land us reclaimed to change the look and feel of areas even when such cars are commonplace. 
    Sure it wont be immediate but there is definite scope for this to happen. Its happened in cities like Amsterdam and Paris in areas where they have discouraged car use. In places where there arent drives on street parking is common (many places have both drives and on street parking). If we move away from the car ownership model then that on street parking is not needed to the same extent at all. There will need to be some spaces for loading, unloading, delivery, pick ups etc but if these are all generally short stops then there is a massively lower need for these. So space previously given to street parking can either be given to road space to improve flow (likely to be unnecessary in many cases in suburbia) or to grass verges and trees. Or many a bit of both, street parking on one side of the road given to road space and the other side given to trees and verges with pull in spaces every 100 yards?. I saw a graphic a few months ago showing what proportion of cities are used for parked car infrastructure. Not moving cars but parked. Its a scary proportion of the land space in cities. I'll try and dig it out.
    What you describe is simply what roads looked like a generation ago when homes did not typically have more than one car and many had none. 

    It may well transpire and will be influenced by what  happens to public transport and how affordable these shared cars are or if they become the privilege of the wealthy. Only time will tell.
    Yes and returning to such would be transformational and of huge benefit. 

    I've said enough on this forum about funding and improving public transport so I wont get started down that route! Given the lack of up front costs and admin such as insurance maintenance and tax these subscription services (as seen with Uber etc) have much lower barriers to entry compared with purchasing a car. Better public transport would reduce the need for them which is ideal but these are good options.
    If they could make longer distance drives economical rather than equivalent of an existing taxi, as well as being able to get bigger van size ones to load stuff into, I could see it really transforming. 

    Could supercharge the move to electric, if let's say, you go 300 miles in car A then get out a service station, hope straight into car B and get going... 

    If both of the above could happen I would consider giving up my car. 
    Long distance travel - train 

    Local travel - autonomous car 

    Large payload vehicle - electric van  
    Sitting around waiting for it to be fixed - cyber truck
  • Huskaris said:
    Chizz said:
    Huskaris said:
    Jints said:
    uncle said:
    Will driving test become a thing of the past?
    Yes. I’ve already said to my children (oldest is 17) that it’s probably not worth bothering.  I reckon that driverless cars will be available to buy by 2030 or otherwise it’ll be more like all driverless cars are effectively like taxis.
    I read about this after the Brexit vote and at that time there were predictions that 80% of urban journeys would be completed by driverless cars in ten years time... so 2026/27.

    We are behind that curve but the use case remains the same: why learn to drive and why invest £10-30K in a car that sits around most of the time when one can simply use an Uber App or competitor to summons a driverless car for any trip? And let's not forget fuel, maintenance and insurance.

    It may soon become much, much cheaper to live in a built up area?
    The transformational effect it could have on cities and suburbs too. The amount of space dedicated to car related infrastructure just to accommodate them being parked for the majority of the time. We could see much more outdoor  seating for dining and eating at restaurants like in European cities. More greenery instead of parking spaces. Nicely done front gardens instead of drives. Trees giving shade to combat the urban heat island effect and improve air quality. 
    Of course our weather may dictate otherwise for outdoor dining!

    More seriously though if more of us use these driverless cars that will still see a lot of cars on the road and in need of infrastructure as you put it. Not sure how it translates to saved space  significantly. 
    It was in response to the suggestion of calling a driverless car via an app or subscription service rather than owning it. 

    The vast majority of cars spend more than 90% if the time parked. Of we move the the above model then a) there would be far fewer cars needing to be parked as theybwill be off on another job for another customer and b) cars wouldn't need to be parked in residential or city centre areas as they can drive themselves to a suitable parking place in a less busy area. 

    Therefore more space

    All round a much better allocation of resource.
    Hmmm. I’m not sure that in Greater London this fleet of cars can all overnight park up in country lanes further out!

    Maybe we will build huge car parks on the borders of the M25 and see a swarm of cars all driving in to London in the early hours ready for the morning rush hour. That wound be eerie!

    long term they will be the norm I’m sure but likely some time beyond that before any material change to re purposing road space. 
    There will be far fewer cars. If cars spend 90% of their time parked, in theory you need about 90% fewer cars if they’re being used all the time. 
    Only if the 10% when they are being driven is evenly spaced. In fact that will be peaks of demands at commuting times but you would still see a significant reduction- I'd guess more like 50% though
    Yes, likely about right. But thats still 50% fewer cars needing ton e parked and therefore 50% or more of existing parking spaces that can be repurposed.
    But….

    Most parking is in side / suburban roads who maybe don’t have a driveway. I don’t see how that changes materially those areas. Likewise in city centre areas wound still be needed to arrive at / load etc. 

    As said a long time before any land us reclaimed to change the look and feel of areas even when such cars are commonplace. 
    Sure it wont be immediate but there is definite scope for this to happen. Its happened in cities like Amsterdam and Paris in areas where they have discouraged car use. In places where there arent drives on street parking is common (many places have both drives and on street parking). If we move away from the car ownership model then that on street parking is not needed to the same extent at all. There will need to be some spaces for loading, unloading, delivery, pick ups etc but if these are all generally short stops then there is a massively lower need for these. So space previously given to street parking can either be given to road space to improve flow (likely to be unnecessary in many cases in suburbia) or to grass verges and trees. Or many a bit of both, street parking on one side of the road given to road space and the other side given to trees and verges with pull in spaces every 100 yards?. I saw a graphic a few months ago showing what proportion of cities are used for parked car infrastructure. Not moving cars but parked. Its a scary proportion of the land space in cities. I'll try and dig it out.
    What you describe is simply what roads looked like a generation ago when homes did not typically have more than one car and many had none. 

    It may well transpire and will be influenced by what  happens to public transport and how affordable these shared cars are or if they become the privilege of the wealthy. Only time will tell.
    Yes and returning to such would be transformational and of huge benefit. 

    I've said enough on this forum about funding and improving public transport so I wont get started down that route! Given the lack of up front costs and admin such as insurance maintenance and tax these subscription services (as seen with Uber etc) have much lower barriers to entry compared with purchasing a car. Better public transport would reduce the need for them which is ideal but these are good options.
    If they could make longer distance drives economical rather than equivalent of an existing taxi, as well as being able to get bigger van size ones to load stuff into, I could see it really transforming. 

    Could supercharge the move to electric, if let's say, you go 300 miles in car A then get out a service station, hope straight into car B and get going... 

    If both of the above could happen I would consider giving up my car. 
    Long distance travel - train 

    Local travel - autonomous car 

    Large payload vehicle - electric van  
    I don't want to spend an hour and a half getting to Paddington to then get on a train to Wales, I'd rather drive. 
    I'd rather not go full stop.
    Nathan, Nathan, look at what Dave just said. 
  • Can imagine it happening initially only in designated areas where all signage and infrastructure has been designed and tested and no complicated temporary diversions are operating.

    Will need to read temporary road diversion instructions, follow cones and temporary speed limits not relying only on GPS related speed limits. My Audi will often wrongly pick up a 30 mph sign positioned on the corner of a side road if it’s angled facing oncoming traffic, so intelligent reading of signage could pose issues.

    To avoid mixture of driven and autonomous vehicles could also see urban driverless zones excluding driven vehicles.


  • Can imagine it happening initially only in designated areas where all signage and infrastructure has been designed and tested and no complicated temporary diversions are operating.

    Will need to read temporary road diversion instructions, follow cones and temporary speed limits not relying only on GPS related speed limits. My Audi will often wrongly pick up a 30 mph sign positioned on the corner of a side road if it’s angled facing oncoming traffic, so intelligent reading of signage could pose issues.

    To avoid mixture of driven and autonomous vehicles could also see urban driverless zones excluding driven vehicles.


    I think motorways may be where driverless cars are allowed first rather than urban zones.
  • Can imagine it happening initially only in designated areas where all signage and infrastructure has been designed and tested and no complicated temporary diversions are operating.

    Will need to read temporary road diversion instructions, follow cones and temporary speed limits not relying only on GPS related speed limits. My Audi will often wrongly pick up a 30 mph sign positioned on the corner of a side road if it’s angled facing oncoming traffic, so intelligent reading of signage could pose issues.

    To avoid mixture of driven and autonomous vehicles could also see urban driverless zones excluding driven vehicles.


    Interestingly our Volvo has recently been missing some national limit signs.  It is suggested the problem lies with a new version of Google maps. 
  • Thinking this through more (and I do think it will happen) I suspect another challenge is not just pedestrians stepping out on the road when they should not , but also the rise in the ‘hooligan’ type behaviour of e-scooter and cyclists etc. 

    How you accommodate that erratic behaviour I can’t comprehend (yet).  
  • Sponsored links:


  • Let's hope they can spot a pothole from 20 yards , else the suspension and wheel shop will be doing a brisk business 
  • My thoughts are with boy racers. What’ll happen to them ?
  • Driverless cars, thought they already existed, they're called teenagers...


    ..Oooh, controversial...🙄
  • Driverless cars - the solution to a problem no one knew existed.
  • One thing I remember reading recently is that drivers have started to notice that the driverless vehicles will always yield, so drivers can just pull out in front of them as long as there's enough time.

    Another is that in the US, the number one job in every state for non college graduate men is truck driving. So the next step of driverless trucks would have massive repercussions.
  • Hex said:
    Can imagine it happening initially only in designated areas where all signage and infrastructure has been designed and tested and no complicated temporary diversions are operating.

    Will need to read temporary road diversion instructions, follow cones and temporary speed limits not relying only on GPS related speed limits. My Audi will often wrongly pick up a 30 mph sign positioned on the corner of a side road if it’s angled facing oncoming traffic, so intelligent reading of signage could pose issues.

    To avoid mixture of driven and autonomous vehicles could also see urban driverless zones excluding driven vehicles.


    Interestingly our Volvo has recently been missing some national limit signs.  It is suggested the problem lies with a new version of Google maps. 
    Mine does the same too. On the a2 if I set it to 50 mph, as I come round to the kidbrooke turn off it picks up the 30mph signs and drops right down. Pretty dangerous so have stopped using it. It must pick up the 30mph sign up the top 🤷‍♂️

  • Symptomatic of 21st thunking!

    What a fucking stupid idea, just for the sake of it as usual.
  • Just because the technology exists to do it, it doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. And don’t get me started on fucking AI!!
  • If they are guided by Google maps, Waze or similar, can see there being a bit of a problem as these apps currently don't see all temporary road closures. At what point down a mile long stretch of country road with barriers at the end, would the vehicle know that you have to go back? Will the traffic cone people have to put some sort of sensor in at the first sign, so the vehicle knows that there's a blockage at the end, with no opportunity to turn off before hand? 
  • Sponsored links:


  • Driverless cars - the solution to a problem no one knew existed.
    Speak for yourself. I’m well aware of the problem of an hour wasted during my daily commute when I could be replying to emails, making calls or getting admin done. The solution will free up more of my evening.
  • JaShea99 said:
    Driverless cars - the solution to a problem no one knew existed.
    Speak for yourself. I’m well aware of the problem of an hour wasted during my daily commute when I could be replying to emails, making calls or getting admin done. The solution will free up more of my evening.
    Also solves the problem of inconsistent human behaviour when driving cars due to external factors (tired, hungover / still drunk, distracted). But your right, it doesn’t solve any problems. 
  • Is the intention to roll these out nationwide? Because, the more I think about it, the more it seems these cars will only operate successfully in cities — and even then, primarily on main roads — or between services on motorways. I struggle to see how installing the necessary support infrastructure on every road across the UK could be financially viable or practical.
  • Driverless cars - the solution to a problem no one knew existed.
    You're right, idiotic drivers and ridiculous levels of congestion are not a problem at all.
  • Can imagine it happening initially only in designated areas where all signage and infrastructure has been designed and tested and no complicated temporary diversions are operating.

    Will need to read temporary road diversion instructions, follow cones and temporary speed limits not relying only on GPS related speed limits. My Audi will often wrongly pick up a 30 mph sign positioned on the corner of a side road if it’s angled facing oncoming traffic, so intelligent reading of signage could pose issues.

    To avoid mixture of driven and autonomous vehicles could also see urban driverless zones excluding driven vehicles.


    Toyotas, maybe others, pick up '80' of the back of foreign lorries.
  • Driverless cars - the solution to a problem no one knew existed.
    Over 1,000 fatalities per year on UK roads.  I'd say that's a problem.
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