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The Salt Path - the truth

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  • North Lower Neil
    North Lower Neil Posts: 22,956
    edited July 8
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Have they actually paid back any of the money they owe?
    If I read it right, yes.

    The Observer allege:

    She stole £64k over a few years from her employer.

    They borrowed money off a relative of her husband to pay the employer back with the deal being the employer drops the criminal complaint.

    The relative added hefty interest onto the borrowed money, and they eventually owed the relative £150k.  The relative's company went into administration and the debt was called in to help pay that firm's creditors, so they 'lost' their house paying that £150k off.

    But the original employer did get the money, and the house paid off the loan taken out to pay off the employer (although I guess no guarantee the house covered the full amounts owed).

    The sob story in the book about them losing the house was that it was a bad investment, not that it was essentially the eventual consequences of her allegedly stealing thousands of pounds from her employer.

  • North Lower Neil
    North Lower Neil Posts: 22,956
    Of course, I doubt they've paid back the benefits they got whilst having a walking holiday, others I suspect they got whilst working cash in hand on a farm halfway through the book, gone back and paid the campsites they stayed at without paying, paid the shopkeeper she stole from....
  • KingKinsella
    KingKinsella Posts: 1,315
    North Lower Neil said:
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Have they actually paid back any of the money they owe?
    If I read it right, yes.

    They allege she stole £64k from her employer.

    He borrowed money off a relative (with their house as collateral) to pay that back with the deal being the employer drops the criminal complaint.

    The relative added hefty interest onto the borrowed money, and they owed the relative £150k.  The relatives company went into administration and tbe debt was called in so that's how they 'lost' their house.

    But the original employer did get the money, and the house paid off the loan. 

    The sob story about them losing the house was that it was a bad investment, not essentially the eventual consequences of her allegedly stealing thousands of pounds from her employer.

    There was a car mechanic/ garage owner who said he was owed £800 
  • Billy_Mix
    Billy_Mix Posts: 2,707
    EveshamAddick said:
    Well well well….

    https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-real-salt-path-how-the-couple-behind-a-bestseller-left-a-trail-of-debt-and-deceit

    "truth" ?  or opinion?

    it has taken until a high profile film adaptation is launched for this 'truth' to come out - coincidence?

    The memoir was published 7 years ago, has been awarded all manner of accolades. Seems hard to believe that any offended or defrauded party hasn't been aware of the Winns' version of events and their resulting profile.  Also hard to imagine that Penguin and the film's producers didn't do their own due diligence, given the contentious starting point for the whole story.

    One thing of which we can be sure is that lawyers will be enriching themselves, whatever the 'truth'. 

  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,233
    The books were written under a false name.
  • North Lower Neil
    North Lower Neil Posts: 22,956
    This sets it out quite well:

    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/real-salt-path-book-observer-040000577.html
  • Off_it
    Off_it Posts: 28,864
    "Moth" to a flame.
  • Jints
    Jints Posts: 3,495
    Billy_Mix said:
    EveshamAddick said:
    Well well well….

    https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-real-salt-path-how-the-couple-behind-a-bestseller-left-a-trail-of-debt-and-deceit

    "truth" ?  or opinion?

    it has taken until a high profile film adaptation is launched for this 'truth' to come out - coincidence?

    The memoir was published 7 years ago, has been awarded all manner of accolades. Seems hard to believe that any offended or defrauded party hasn't been aware of the Winns' version of events and their resulting profile.  Also hard to imagine that Penguin and the film's producers didn't do their own due diligence, given the contentious starting point for the whole story.

    One thing of which we can be sure is that lawyers will be enriching themselves, whatever the 'truth'. 

    The article is stating facts (e.g. (a) that she embezzelled a business, took a loan to pay the stolen money back, that loan was secured on the house and they failed to pay it back leading to the sale (b) they owned land in France) . They may be true or not (I expect they are) but they aren't opinions. 

    Lawyers don't enrich themselves. They are dependent on clients to instruct them. 
  • usetobunkin
    usetobunkin Posts: 2,187
    Moths a funny name for a man. Is it short for Caterpillar?
  • cfgs
    cfgs Posts: 11,484
    usetobunkin said:
    Moths a funny name for a man. Is it short for Caterpillar?
    I believe it is a nickname as he can never pass a street light after dark.
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  • thai malaysia addick
    thai malaysia addick Posts: 18,339
    usetobunkin said:
    Moths a funny name for a man. Is it short for Caterpillar?
    I think you should tread carefully here
  • North Lower Neil
    North Lower Neil Posts: 22,956
    edited July 8
    usetobunkin said:
    Moths a funny name for a man. Is it short for Caterpillar?
    Weirdly I think he might have considered it short for TiMothy.

    Maybe thought it was a name you can pass off as a childhood nickname that stuck etc without people thinking too much of it or considering if you've changed your name.
  • EveshamAddick
    EveshamAddick Posts: 7,019
    Billy_Mix said:
    EveshamAddick said:
    Well well well….

    https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-real-salt-path-how-the-couple-behind-a-bestseller-left-a-trail-of-debt-and-deceit

    "truth" ?  or opinion?

    it has taken until a high profile film adaptation is launched for this 'truth' to come out - coincidence?

    The memoir was published 7 years ago, has been awarded all manner of accolades. Seems hard to believe that any offended or defrauded party hasn't been aware of the Winns' version of events and their resulting profile.  Also hard to imagine that Penguin and the film's producers didn't do their own due diligence, given the contentious starting point for the whole story.

    One thing of which we can be sure is that lawyers will be enriching themselves, whatever the 'truth'. 

    If you look at the one star book reviews on Amazon, people were calling this out as hokum back in 2020.
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,742
    edited July 9
    The housing issue never stacked up from day one. The local authority would have been obliged to house them if the facts were as presented. 
  • CHG
    CHG Posts: 4,529
    The Rest Is Entertainment cover it well in this weeks podcast. 
  • EveshamAddick
    EveshamAddick Posts: 7,019
    Airman Brown said:
    The housing issue never stacked up from day one. The local authority would have been obliged to house them if the facts were as presented. 
    Indeed - “Moth” would likely have been considered to have a priority need if homeless if he really had a terminal illness.
  • LennyLowrent
    LennyLowrent Posts: 2,705
    An Interview with the writer was broadcast on ABC radio National in Australia. My wife fell for it, said "there's hope for us yet".
    I listened while walking the dog.
    Came back saying I did not believe a word...

    Branded as cynical something full of something else due to my somethingthm being out of control.

    Having a nice few days...
  • Off_it
    Off_it Posts: 28,864
    EveshamAddick said:
    Airman Brown said:
    The housing issue never stacked up from day one. The local authority would have been obliged to house them if the facts were as presented. 
    Indeed - “Moth” would likely have been considered to have a priority need if homeless if he really had a terminal illness.
    But that wouldn't have made such a good story.
  • Lincsaddick
    Lincsaddick Posts: 32,357
    The Salt Path: Penguin says it did 'all necessary due diligence' - BBC News
  • kimbo
    kimbo Posts: 2,996
    Enjoyed the book and the film. Just really needs to be seen as fiction not a memoir. I liked the nature and atmosphere the book portrayed 
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  • PrincessFiona
    PrincessFiona Posts: 5,457
    kimbo said:
    Enjoyed the book and the film. Just really needs to be seen as fiction not a memoir. I liked the nature and atmosphere the book portrayed 
    but it was portrayed as a true story
  • North Lower Neil
    North Lower Neil Posts: 22,956
    kimbo said:
    Enjoyed the book and the film. Just really needs to be seen as fiction not a memoir. I liked the nature and atmosphere the book portrayed 
    Personally thought she barely mentioned all the countryside etc which is what I want from a travelogue.

    Too busy whinging and claiming people had called her old again.
  • BalladMan
    BalladMan Posts: 1,119
    More detailed riposte 

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c89eq12qvl5o

    - evidence of medical diagnosis for moth 
    - they lost their house to a bad property investment ( not paying back a family member to pay off former employer) 
    - admits liability with previous employer (mutual agreement signed by both parties)
    - since book advance, tried to find those they owed money to and pay them back 
    - uninhabitable ground in France is true (and were not marketable to sell) 

    I am not saying I believe all the above, but they do have a response to the allegations they would be fairly simple to dispute. 
  • North Lower Neil
    North Lower Neil Posts: 22,956
    Winn said Cooper promised to eventually pay the money back, and the couple asked for it to be returned in 2008. Instead, she said, Cooper offered them a loan through his company, assured against their home, with 18% interest, which he said he would cover.

    I can’t see the logic?

    "Yes I know I owe you money but can I not pay you properly and place a charge against your home?"

    'Oh yes, that sounds absolutely fine.'
  • PrincessFiona
    PrincessFiona Posts: 5,457
    BalladMan said:
    More detailed riposte 

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c89eq12qvl5o

    - evidence of medical diagnosis for moth 
    - they lost their house to a bad property investment ( not paying back a family member to pay off former employer) 
    - admits liability with previous employer (mutual agreement signed by both parties)
    - since book advance, tried to find those they owed money to and pay them back 
    - uninhabitable ground in France is true (and were not marketable to sell) 

    I am not saying I believe all the above, but they do have a response to the allegations they would be fairly simple to dispute. 
    Personally I think the medical side will be interesting, not withstanding the hypocritic oath - was he diagnosed or not? Has he outlived well beyond the maximum expectancy and miraculously is quite well now?

    If they previously stayed in France before, how were they then not able to? - being able to stay there and being able to sell the land is 2 different things.

    If he had a terminal illness, why were they not automatically re-housed in Wales?

    I think someone who finds it so easy to make up a load untruths would have little problem coming up with a response - whether that is robust or not is another matter. This may not be relevant but compulsive liars believe themselves, which is why they can be so convincing. Look at the mushroom poisoner in NZ, her responses remind me of the 'real Martha'.

    I wonder how hard they 'tried to find those they owed' and what, if any evidence  
  • Off_it
    Off_it Posts: 28,864
    North Lower Neil said:
    Winn said Cooper promised to eventually pay the money back, and the couple asked for it to be returned in 2008. Instead, she said, Cooper offered them a loan through his company, assured against their home, with 18% interest, which he said he would cover.

    I can’t see the logic?

    "Yes I know I owe you money but can I not pay you properly and place a charge against your home?"

    'Oh yes, that sounds absolutely fine.'
    Yep, that's all absolutely crystal clear. Nothing to question there, no siree.

    And on the stealing point, she makes no admission or claim either way, but says the parties agreed that she should pay (or repay) some money. Because that's what you do if you're totally innocent, you just pay people money you don't owe.
  • Holdkneebomb
    Holdkneebomb Posts: 1,263
    PrincessFiona said:
    BalladMan said:
    More detailed riposte 

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c89eq12qvl5o

    - evidence of medical diagnosis for moth 
    - they lost their house to a bad property investment ( not paying back a family member to pay off former employer) 
    - admits liability with previous employer (mutual agreement signed by both parties)
    - since book advance, tried to find those they owed money to and pay them back 
    - uninhabitable ground in France is true (and were not marketable to sell) 

    I am not saying I believe all the above, but they do have a response to the allegations they would be fairly simple to dispute. 
    Personally I think the medical side will be interesting, not withstanding the hypocritic oath - was he diagnosed or not? Has he outlived well beyond the maximum expectancy and miraculously is quite well now?

    If they previously stayed in France before, how were they then not able to? - being able to stay there and being able to sell the land is 2 different things.

    If he had a terminal illness, why were they not automatically re-housed in Wales?

    I think someone who finds it so easy to make up a load untruths would have little problem coming up with a response - whether that is robust or not is another matter. This may not be relevant but compulsive liars believe themselves, which is why they can be so convincing. Look at the mushroom poisoner in NZ, her responses remind me of the 'real Martha'.

    I wonder how hard they 'tried to find those they owed' and what, if any evidence  
    It appears that the hypocritic oath was used in this case
  • BalladMan
    BalladMan Posts: 1,119
    edited July 10
    PrincessFiona said:
    BalladMan said:
    More detailed riposte 

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c89eq12qvl5o

    - evidence of medical diagnosis for moth 
    - they lost their house to a bad property investment ( not paying back a family member to pay off former employer) 
    - admits liability with previous employer (mutual agreement signed by both parties)
    - since book advance, tried to find those they owed money to and pay them back 
    - uninhabitable ground in France is true (and were not marketable to sell) 

    I am not saying I believe all the above, but they do have a response to the allegations they would be fairly simple to dispute. 
    Personally I think the medical side will be interesting, not withstanding the hypocritic oath - was he diagnosed or not? Has he outlived well beyond the maximum expectancy and miraculously is quite well now?

    If they previously stayed in France before, how were they then not able to? - being able to stay there and being able to sell the land is 2 different things.

    If he had a terminal illness, why were they not automatically re-housed in Wales?

    I think someone who finds it so easy to make up a load untruths would have little problem coming up with a response - whether that is robust or not is another matter. This may not be relevant but compulsive liars believe themselves, which is why they can be so convincing. Look at the mushroom poisoner in NZ, her responses remind me of the 'real Martha'.

    I wonder how hard they 'tried to find those they owed' and what, if any evidence  
    I am not arguing that they are innocent, just stating the facts. 

    If these new facts are also bullshit then any decent journo will find them out again, so hopefully they have now provided enough rope to hang themselves

    The medical point is an interesting one.  I had never heard of Moths condition previously (I am not saying that is surprising) but are there lots of people out there with the condition for years before diagnosed. She does say that he did not got through the full diagnosis procedure which is not ‘one test’ but a series of staged tests before diagnosis.  
  • Jints
    Jints Posts: 3,495
    Lincsaddick said:
    The Salt Path: Penguin says it did 'all necessary due diligence' - BBC News
    Consisting of a warranty from the author and a legal read (presumably limited to ensuring nothing libelous). 
  • North Lower Neil
    North Lower Neil Posts: 22,956
    edited July 10
    The letters are odd - not least because they're all dated after the walk (2013) and the oldest, 2015, suggests that the doctor thinks it's most likely CBS/CBD but wants to send him for an MRI.

    The one in 2019 says he's been under review for 'some years' and it might be something different.

    But the 2025 "did you know they're in a film?!" letter does seem to confirm a bit more, so if he's ill that's a shame and if hes done better than most with CBD/CBS, good luck to him.

    In terms of the rest of it, she's very unlucky that she couldn't prove that £64k was missing due to 'mistakes'.  Or that they were definitely right about the court case, and the charge they they agreed to on their home (in case they didn't pay back a loan) definitely shouldn't mean they lose their house (to pay back the loan).  Very unfortunate woman, all of this might have been avoided with a good filing system it seems.

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