I totally agree with everyone saying it's a travesty, should never have happened, would you still support them yadda yadda yadda.
That still doesn't avoid the fact that MK Dons ARE Wimbledon. The Wimbledon that won the FA Cup and that Vinny Jones played for.
And to answer @MillwallFan.......how far is too far when moving grounds ? Look at all the new "out of town" grounds that clubs have moved to over the past 20-30 years. Arsenal, Leicester, Middlesbrough, Southampton, Swansea, Derby and now Everton. even Millwall moved to a new ground.
So how far is too far ? Some CAFC fans wouldn't travel the 5 miles to Selhurst. Is 10 miles too far ?? Or is it just when you move out of the county ?
For me the fans are the club. Everything else changes over the years. The board, the chairman, the players, the ground, they all change. The one consistent is the fans. So for me afc Wimbledon is the old Wimbledon. That’s the fanbase, that’s the club. The monstrosity of a football club that is MK dons has no link to Wimbledon whatsoever. It’s just a plastic club that stole a league position from Wimbledon. That’s the only connection
They didnt steal anything. They simply moved grounds. The Wimbledon that finished one season sharing at Selhurst is the same Wimbledon that then started the next season playing in Milton Keynes. Same division, same players.
You might not like what happened but please dont try to re-write history.
Same players? for a few seasons maybe. It ended there.
Like all teams.
Or shall we say you're not the same Millwall when you moved to the "new" Den because some players left a year or two later.
I’m sure I remember something in the 70’s, from I think the Mercury that Charlton was thinking of moving to MK.
That's true, a Rodney Stone special as I remember. By the early 70's we were drifting aimlessly (to say the least), and they wondered why the crowds had disappeared.
I totally agree with everyone saying it's a travesty, should never have happened, would you still support them yadda yadda yadda.
That still doesn't avoid the fact that MK Dons ARE Wimbledon. The Wimbledon that won the FA Cup and that Vinny Jones played for.
And to answer @MillwallFan.......how far is too far when moving grounds ? Look at all the new "out of town" grounds that clubs have moved to over the past 20-30 years. Arsenal, Leicester, Middlesbrough, Southampton, Swansea, Derby and now Everton. even Millwall moved to a new ground.
So how far is too far ? Some CAFC fans wouldn't travel the 5 miles to Selhurst. Is 10 miles too far ?? Or is it just when you move out of the county ?
For me the fans are the club. Everything else changes over the years. The board, the chairman, the players, the ground, they all change. The one consistent is the fans. So for me afc Wimbledon is the old Wimbledon. That’s the fanbase, that’s the club. The monstrosity of a football club that is MK dons has no link to Wimbledon whatsoever. It’s just a plastic club that stole a league position from Wimbledon. That’s the only connection
They didnt steal anything. They simply moved grounds. The Wimbledon that finished one season sharing at Selhurst is the same Wimbledon that then started the next season playing in Milton Keynes. Same division, same players.
You might not like what happened but please dont try to re-write history.
Same players? for a few seasons maybe. It ended there.
Like all teams.
Or shall we say you're not the same Millwall when you moved to the "new" Den because some players left a year or two later.
Bonkers.
Different ground, different fanbase, different colours, different badge, different city, totally different region, but you think it’s the same club because they had the same players for a few seasons?
I totally agree with everyone saying it's a travesty, should never have happened, would you still support them yadda yadda yadda.
That still doesn't avoid the fact that MK Dons ARE Wimbledon. The Wimbledon that won the FA Cup and that Vinny Jones played for.
And to answer @MillwallFan.......how far is too far when moving grounds ? Look at all the new "out of town" grounds that clubs have moved to over the past 20-30 years. Arsenal, Leicester, Middlesbrough, Southampton, Swansea, Derby and now Everton. even Millwall moved to a new ground.
So how far is too far ? Some CAFC fans wouldn't travel the 5 miles to Selhurst. Is 10 miles too far ?? Or is it just when you move out of the county ?
For me the fans are the club. Everything else changes over the years. The board, the chairman, the players, the ground, they all change. The one consistent is the fans. So for me afc Wimbledon is the old Wimbledon. That’s the fanbase, that’s the club. The monstrosity of a football club that is MK dons has no link to Wimbledon whatsoever. It’s just a plastic club that stole a league position from Wimbledon. That’s the only connection
They didnt steal anything. They simply moved grounds. The Wimbledon that finished one season sharing at Selhurst is the same Wimbledon that then started the next season playing in Milton Keynes. Same division, same players.
You might not like what happened but please dont try to re-write history.
Yes they simply moved grounds… just a mear 60 plus miles up the road. And changed the club colours, the name of the club, the club crest, the fanbase, the very identity of the club. But yeah, the ‘simply moved grounds’ 😂
My mate supports AFC Wimbledon and there is no way on earth he has ever thought or mentioned MK being a club that hold the history of Wimbledon. It’s a separate club, and AFC Wimbledon ( the name is a hint) is Wimbledon and that’s the fans view…anything else is irrelevant.
Unfortunately it’s wholly relevant. Wimbledon FC changed their name to MK Dons and moved grounds.
The team now playing at Plough Lane didn’t win the FA Cup, whatever they claim and irrespective of how both clubs have accepted a re-writing of history.
Amazing this has got to two pages, Mk dons are Mk dons and Wimbledon are Wimbledon, more importantly they are two irrelevant small teams in lower leagues. Forget about them and worry about the championship season
I don’t know why but @golfaddick has always had a bee in his bonnet over this issue. Personally can’t give two fucks about the pair of them.
I dont give 2 fucks either. It's just people like re-writing history. The fact that the EFL also caved in & let MK Dons give AFC Wimbledon their trophies is also another one of life's little mysteries.
It does make me laugh though because AFC Wimbledon somehow won the FA Cup in 1988 when they only formed in 2002. Must have had Marty's Delorean.
I wonder if we could claim all Arsenals trophies because they moved to North london & dropped Woolwich from their name.
Unfortunately it’s wholly relevant. Wimbledon FC changed their name to MK Dons and moved grounds.
The team now playing at Plough Lane didn’t win the FA Cup, whatever they claim and irrespective of how both clubs have accepted a re-writing of history.
My mate supports AFC Wimbledon and there is no way on earth he has ever thought or mentioned MK being a club that hold the history of Wimbledon. It’s a separate club, and AFC Wimbledon ( the name is a hint) is Wimbledon and that’s the fans view…anything else is irrelevant.
Does your mate think the team he supports won the FA Cup ? Seriously. I'd love to know. Does he think Vinny Jones & Dave Beasant are ex-players ?
I totally agree with everyone saying it's a travesty, should never have happened, would you still support them yadda yadda yadda.
That still doesn't avoid the fact that MK Dons ARE Wimbledon. The Wimbledon that won the FA Cup and that Vinny Jones played for.
And to answer @MillwallFan.......how far is too far when moving grounds ? Look at all the new "out of town" grounds that clubs have moved to over the past 20-30 years. Arsenal, Leicester, Middlesbrough, Southampton, Swansea, Derby and now Everton. even Millwall moved to a new ground.
So how far is too far ? Some CAFC fans wouldn't travel the 5 miles to Selhurst. Is 10 miles too far ?? Or is it just when you move out of the county ?
For me the fans are the club. Everything else changes over the years. The board, the chairman, the players, the ground, they all change. The one consistent is the fans. So for me afc Wimbledon is the old Wimbledon. That’s the fanbase, that’s the club. The monstrosity of a football club that is MK dons has no link to Wimbledon whatsoever. It’s just a plastic club that stole a league position from Wimbledon. That’s the only connection
They didnt steal anything. They simply moved grounds. The Wimbledon that finished one season sharing at Selhurst is the same Wimbledon that then started the next season playing in Milton Keynes. Same division, same players.
You might not like what happened but please dont try to re-write history.
Wasn’t it an entirely different legal entity that just bought their golden ticket?
For some unfathomable reason I loath MK, both the place and the team. Made up place with a made up team.
No different to Arsenal moving north of the river and dropping "Woolwich" from their name. In this case Wimbledon moved to Milton Keynes so added MK to their name.
Totally different. One moved a few miles across a river but stayed in the same city, the other moved over 60 miles and out of the city they originated from.
How would you feel if Charlton moved a few miles to another site in London? Not happy but you would probably carry on supporting them. Now how would you feel if someone moved Charlton 60 odd miles, out of London, to somewhere like Leighton Buzzard and then proceeded to changed everything about their identity? Mental comparison.
I think the comparison between the Arsenal move and the Wimbledon move is valid. When Arsenal moved 10 miles a lot of their supporters still worked Saturday morning and would not have been able to easily get to the new ground by kick-off time. When we moved 10 miles to Selhurst our attendances plummeted so think how many Arsenal supporters could actually carry on watching them without a great deal of effort.
My mate supports AFC Wimbledon and there is no way on earth he has ever thought or mentioned MK being a club that hold the history of Wimbledon. It’s a separate club, and AFC Wimbledon ( the name is a hint) is Wimbledon and that’s the fans view…anything else is irrelevant.
Does your mate think the team he supports won the FA Cup ? Seriously. I'd love to know. Does he think Vinny Jones & Dave Beasant are ex-players ?
His view is that he’s gone from supporting Wimbledon FC and then onto the Phoenix club AFC Wimbledon. For him both are intertwined and his history and experience as a fan supporting them all blends into one “journey”.
its a tough one to work out the nuances, but id always be inclined and side with the fans view.
all in all it’s a weird situation and hope it never happens again. A weird American bullshit way of operating a sporting franchise. Vegas Raiders and all that, would be interesting to know if any of the original Oakland fans still follow the now Vegas based outfit.
Shame Jacko is their manager because everything else about AFC Wimbledon I can't stand. Large amount of absolutely idiot fans that have followed them through the leagues causing trouble and they should have absolutely had the book thrown at them for the Robinson incident. The whole hollier than thou attitude because they're fan owned too when they aren't even the only fan owned club in the EFL.
The other club I do not acknowledge as anything other than a skidmark on the gusset of English football (of which there are a few granted) that should never have been allowed to happen and thankfully won't again. I know a few Wimbledon fans who were there first time round and for thr rebirth and they are same as us believe it or not and we probably have a similar dickhead ratio. One thing my mate Sam always used to say about the days when they had some headbangers playing for them was that unlike Millwall with Vandenhauwe, Hurlock, Stevens etc their fans were a pretty mild group and totally unthreatening. Guess the estates of Worcestor Park, Sutton, Balham and Wimbledon itself aren't as gnarly as Peckham and Bermondsey but the club used to attract some proper mentalists as players.
I don't like Milton Keynes as a place anyway, apart from Bletchley Park there is nothing redeeming about it. Especially not the football club
I’ve been to a few afc Wimbledon games over the years, mainly in their non league days. I’ve been in the Wimbledon ends and ends of other clubs. I only saw dickish behaviour once and that was in a play off semi final against Bromley.
lots of posts on here mentioning their fans but has anyone actually witnessed this behaviour or is it a case of Chinese whispers?
I totally agree with everyone saying it's a travesty, should never have happened, would you still support them yadda yadda yadda.
That still doesn't avoid the fact that MK Dons ARE Wimbledon. The Wimbledon that won the FA Cup and that Vinny Jones played for.
And to answer @MillwallFan.......how far is too far when moving grounds ? Look at all the new "out of town" grounds that clubs have moved to over the past 20-30 years. Arsenal, Leicester, Middlesbrough, Southampton, Swansea, Derby and now Everton. even Millwall moved to a new ground.
So how far is too far ? Some CAFC fans wouldn't travel the 5 miles to Selhurst. Is 10 miles too far ?? Or is it just when you move out of the county ?
Arsenal moved 100 yards. Middlesbroughs ground is a reasonable walk from the station. Derbys is still in derby, Everton still play in Liverpool. I’ve never been to Leicester or Southampton’s grounds but they within the city limits. We are talking about 60 miles here.
And even if it was a valid comparison, what happened with Arsenal was a very long time ago when football was a fledgling sport and everyone was just starting out and finding their place in the pyramid.
If Winkleman wanted league football for the town of MK then he should’ve bought the local non league club (or started a club from scratch, like AFC Wimbledon had to) and worked them up the football pyramid and got there on merit (something Wimbledon had to do… twice!!), and they would have replaced another team, on merit. That’s how our pyramid works and it’s the envy of the world.
I agree with everything you say except this bit in bold which, to be fair, is something I’ve heard elsewhere.
I believe that other leagues and fans envy the money made in English football but not the pyramid system itself. The systems are quite similar everywhere, aren’t they?
I know how it works in France and it isn’t all that different. Most differences, like regionalising the country into smaller areas from the fourth division down, are simply due to the larger size of the country and therefore extra travelling. If they wanted to make it into exactly the same system as in England they could but it doesn’t make sense. Or do you think that they envy having a smaller country?
The main reason for regionalising in their lower leagues on the continent is because the clubs outside the top two leagues are so small and poorly supported that they couldn’t afford the travel and hotels etc. our pyramid is well supported throughout. Sure there’s clubs who only get a few thousand in our third and fourth tiers, but they would be the best supported clubs at that level on the continent.
It’s not unusual to see regular attendances of 15k and even 20k plus in our third and even fourth tiers. We get teams in our fifth and sixth tier that regularly get north of 5k. That’s just unheard of on the continent. At that level in say Spain or France you’d be lucky to get a couple of hundred.
And then there’s the big clubs being allowed to play their B teams in the 3rd and 4th tiers on the continent. That’s just shit isn’t it?
You’re right except I disagree with the bit above in bold. Here are the average 24-25 attendances for the 17 clubs in the 3rd (national) division of French football:
And even if it was a valid comparison, what happened with Arsenal was a very long time ago when football was a fledgling sport and everyone was just starting out and finding their place in the pyramid.
If Winkleman wanted league football for the town of MK then he should’ve bought the local non league club (or started a club from scratch, like AFC Wimbledon had to) and worked them up the football pyramid and got there on merit (something Wimbledon had to do… twice!!), and they would have replaced another team, on merit. That’s how our pyramid works and it’s the envy of the world.
I agree with everything you say except this bit in bold which, to be fair, is something I’ve heard elsewhere.
I believe that other leagues and fans envy the money made in English football but not the pyramid system itself. The systems are quite similar everywhere, aren’t they?
I know how it works in France and it isn’t all that different. Most differences, like regionalising the country into smaller areas from the fourth division down, are simply due to the larger size of the country and therefore extra travelling. If they wanted to make it into exactly the same system as in England they could but it doesn’t make sense. Or do you think that they envy having a smaller country?
The main reason for regionalising in their lower leagues on the continent is because the clubs outside the top two leagues are so small and poorly supported that they couldn’t afford the travel and hotels etc. our pyramid is well supported throughout. Sure there’s clubs who only get a few thousand in our third and fourth tiers, but they would be the best supported clubs at that level on the continent.
It’s not unusual to see regular attendances of 15k and even 20k plus in our third and even fourth tiers. We get teams in our fifth and sixth tier that regularly get north of 5k. That’s just unheard of on the continent. At that level in say Spain or France you’d be lucky to get a couple of hundred.
And then there’s the big clubs being allowed to play their B teams in the 3rd and 4th tiers on the continent. That’s just shit isn’t it?
You’re right except I disagree with the bit above in bold. Here are the average 24-25 attendances for the 17 clubs in the 3rd (national) division of French football:
Affluence moyenne par club
FC Sochaux Montbéliard : 10 597 *
AS Nancy Lorraine : 10 445
Le Mans FC : 6 970
Valenciennes FC : 6 290
FC Rouen 1899 : 5 406 *
Dijon Football Côte d’Or : 5 025
US Boulogne Côte d’Opale : 4 351
US Orléans Loiret Football : 2 893
Quevilly Rouen Métropole : 2 607
Berrichonne Châteauroux : 2 503
US Concarneau : 2 090
Nîmes Olympique : 1 582
FC Villefranche Beaujolais : 1 550
Football Bourg-en-Bresse Péronnas: 1 391
FC Versailles 78 : 796
Paris 13 Atletico : 405
Aubagne FC : 392
I’m not sure what you’re disagreeing with. Those French third tier averages would be similar to our fifth tier. If you went down to the fifth tier in France they would be getting a few hundred at games. Which is what I said.
I don’t know why but @golfaddick has always had a bee in his bonnet over this issue. Personally can’t give two fucks about the pair of them.
I dont give 2 fucks either. It's just people like re-writing history. The fact that the EFL also caved in & let MK Dons give AFC Wimbledon their trophies is also another one of life's little mysteries.
It does make me laugh though because AFC Wimbledon somehow won the FA Cup in 1988 when they only formed in 2002. Must have had Marty's Delorean.
I wonder if we could claim all Arsenals trophies because they moved to North london & dropped Woolwich from their name.
I’m not sure what you’re disagreeing with. Those French third tier averages would be similar to our fifth tier. If you went down to the fifth tier in France they would be getting a few hundred at games. Which is what I said.
I was disagreeing with your statement:
’It’s not unusual to see regular attendances of 15k and even 20k plus in our third and even fourth tiers’
I totally agree with MillwallFan on both the Wimbledon situation and the English League structure being the envy of the footballing world. Well said Sir.
I totally agree with everyone saying it's a travesty, should never have happened, would you still support them yadda yadda yadda.
That still doesn't avoid the fact that MK Dons ARE Wimbledon. The Wimbledon that won the FA Cup and that Vinny Jones played for.
And to answer @MillwallFan.......how far is too far when moving grounds ? Look at all the new "out of town" grounds that clubs have moved to over the past 20-30 years. Arsenal, Leicester, Middlesbrough, Southampton, Swansea, Derby and now Everton. even Millwall moved to a new ground.
So how far is too far ? Some CAFC fans wouldn't travel the 5 miles to Selhurst. Is 10 miles too far ?? Or is it just when you move out of the county ?
Some really bad examples there of "how far is too far". Leicester moved literally across the road. Arsenal moved a short stroll to where the away coaches used to park, Everton have moved a walkable distance, as have Millwall. Similarly Derby, Southampton and Swansea only moved 2 miles, and the Riverside is only 1 mile from Roker.
So the answer to how far in all these cases is not far at all.
In fact, if we'd ever relocated to the pennisula, a distance I'm sure everybody could agree is not far at all, we'd have moved further than any of the clubs above, a pretty much identical distance to how far Everton have moved, and nobody has suggested at any stage that they've moved to far.
I totally agree with everyone saying it's a travesty, should never have happened, would you still support them yadda yadda yadda.
That still doesn't avoid the fact that MK Dons ARE Wimbledon. The Wimbledon that won the FA Cup and that Vinny Jones played for.
And to answer @MillwallFan.......how far is too far when moving grounds ? Look at all the new "out of town" grounds that clubs have moved to over the past 20-30 years. Arsenal, Leicester, Middlesbrough, Southampton, Swansea, Derby and now Everton. even Millwall moved to a new ground.
So how far is too far ? Some CAFC fans wouldn't travel the 5 miles to Selhurst. Is 10 miles too far ?? Or is it just when you move out of the county ?
Some really bad examples there of "how far is too far". Leicester moved literally across the road. Arsenal moved a short stroll to where the away coaches used to park, Everton have moved a walkable distance, as have Millwall. Similarly Derby, Southampton and Swansea only moved 2 miles, and the Riverside is only 1 mile from Roker.
So the answer to how far in all these cases is not far at all.
In fact, if we'd ever relocated to the pennisula, a distance I'm sure everybody could agree is not far at all, we'd have moved further than any of the clubs above, a pretty much identical distance to how far Everton have moved, and nobody has suggested at any stage that they've moved to far.
He’s just trying to justify the unjustifiable. Golfy doesn’t come across as the sort of bloke who could hold his hands up and admit he may have something wrong.
I totally agree with everyone saying it's a travesty, should never have happened, would you still support them yadda yadda yadda.
That still doesn't avoid the fact that MK Dons ARE Wimbledon. The Wimbledon that won the FA Cup and that Vinny Jones played for.
And to answer @MillwallFan.......how far is too far when moving grounds ? Look at all the new "out of town" grounds that clubs have moved to over the past 20-30 years. Arsenal, Leicester, Middlesbrough, Southampton, Swansea, Derby and now Everton. even Millwall moved to a new ground.
So how far is too far ? Some CAFC fans wouldn't travel the 5 miles to Selhurst. Is 10 miles too far ?? Or is it just when you move out of the county ?
Some really bad examples there of "how far is too far". Leicester moved literally across the road. Arsenal moved a short stroll to where the away coaches used to park, Everton have moved a walkable distance, as have Millwall. Similarly Derby, Southampton and Swansea only moved 2 miles, and the Riverside is only 1 mile from Roker.
So the answer to how far in all these cases is not far at all.
In fact, if we'd ever relocated to the pennisula, a distance I'm sure everybody could agree is not far at all, we'd have moved further than any of the clubs above, a pretty much identical distance to how far Everton have moved, and nobody has suggested at any stage that they've moved to far.
He’s just trying to justify the unjustifiable. Golfy doesn’t come across as the sort of bloke who could hold his hands up and admit he may have something wrong.
I'm simply asking how far is too far. I mentioned those other clubs as they are the well known ones that have moved to a newer stadium somewhere.
Perhaps it does show that fans will accept a move 2 streets away or even 2 miles away......but not 50 miles away.
However, my main point still stands. It doesn't matter where MK Don's play, or what they are called, they are still the club that won the FA Cup in 1988 and shared Selhurst after we moved out.
Comments
Or shall we say you're not the same Millwall when you moved to the "new" Den because some players left a year or two later.
Bonkers.
and my comment was bonkers? 🤣
It does make me laugh though because AFC Wimbledon somehow won the FA Cup in 1988 when they only formed in 2002. Must have had Marty's Delorean.
I wonder if we could claim all Arsenals trophies because they moved to North london & dropped Woolwich from their name.
its a tough one to work out the nuances, but id always be inclined and side with the fans view.
all in all it’s a weird situation and hope it never happens again. A weird American bullshit way of operating a sporting franchise. Vegas Raiders and all that, would be interesting to know if any of the original Oakland fans still follow the now Vegas based outfit.
I don't like Milton Keynes as a place anyway, apart from Bletchley Park there is nothing redeeming about it. Especially not the football club
lots of posts on here mentioning their fans but has anyone actually witnessed this behaviour or is it a case of Chinese whispers?
Affluence moyenne par club
’It’s not unusual to see regular attendances of 15k and even 20k plus in our third and even fourth tiers’
Otherwise I agree with you.
Well said Sir.
So the answer to how far in all these cases is not far at all.
In fact, if we'd ever relocated to the pennisula, a distance I'm sure everybody could agree is not far at all, we'd have moved further than any of the clubs above, a pretty much identical distance to how far Everton have moved, and nobody has suggested at any stage that they've moved to far.
Perhaps it does show that fans will accept a move 2 streets away or even 2 miles away......but not 50 miles away.
However, my main point still stands. It doesn't matter where MK Don's play, or what they are called, they are still the club that won the FA Cup in 1988 and shared Selhurst after we moved out.