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The Blitz
Comments
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A lot of my early childhood was spent playing wiv me mates in the bomb sites spread around the Lewisham area thanks to the Blitz3
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ShootersHillGuru said:I don’t pretend to be a student of this period but I thought I was reasonably clued up. I watched a tv programme last night fronted by Robert Rinder and Historian Ruth Goodman. The period in focus was the London blitz, starting in September 1940. Decent enough programme but it mentioned something that I was totally unaware of. Before the German Luftwaffe bombed London for the first time on 7th September 1940, The RAF bomber command had carried out a bombing raid on Berlin on 25th August. Infuriating Hitler that he raged that London would be flattened. Perhaps I should have known about our raid before the German retaliation but I didn’t. I’m sure a good number of you will have far more knowledge than I obviously have. Any comments
And you could visit his website, Blitzwalkers, read his stuff and why not book yourself a Blitz walking tour with him.6 -
Lincsaddick said:A lot of my early childhood was spent playing wiv me mates in the bomb sites spread around the Lewisham area thanks to the Blitz3
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My Mum worked at Vickers Crayford before moving to the Arsenal. She worked packing the detonators, and she was there during the days of September 1940.She told a story of having her sandwiches at lunch watching the dog fights overhead.She never missed a day’s work and sometimes had to walk from Hazel Rd Slade Green to Plumstead.The woman who worked in the factories were never given the due respect and recognition they ALL deserved.She could read a micrometer in her 80s7
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AndyG said:My Dad and his brother were evacuated from Bow. They were 5 & 8 years old after a week they ran away and made their way back to Bow lol1
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usetobunkin said:My Mum worked at Vickers Crayford before moving to the Arsenal. She worked packing the detonators, and she was there during the days of September 1940.She told a story of having her sandwiches at lunch watching the dog fights overhead.She never missed a day’s work and sometimes had to walk from Hazel Rd Slade Green to Plumstead.The woman who worked in the factories were never given the due respect and recognition they ALL deserved.She could read a micrometer in her 80s
https://www.crayfordhistory.org.uk/category/projects/bartram-the-blitz-and-beyond
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The house I grew up in was In Kinveachy Gardens SE7 and from looking at a bomb map it was noted that this dwelling was seriousply damaged but not destroyed by enemy bombing. Halfway down Kinveachy Gardens and opposite number 53 where I lived there is a small block of flats where the bomb completely destroyed I would say about eight houses.1
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My Grandparents and their children, including my Dad, sheltered under their quarter-sized snooker table. We still have that table. I cannot imagine what is was like.0
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I’m Interested in history but the obsession with WWII and WWI is, I think diminishing this country. Our focus on the relatively recent past really fucks up dealing with the present and future. Lauding sportspeople as those you’d want to be alongside in the trenches for instance.2
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AndyG said:My Dad and his brother were evacuated from Bow. They were 5 & 8 years old after a week they ran away and made their way back to Bow lol0
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se9addick said:Raith_C_Chattonell said:My dear departed mother-in-law was a stones throw away in Islington when this iconic picture was taken. It was her 21st birthday.
From the program last night I learnt that the Germans dropped 100,000 incendiary bombs during the seven hour raid - roughly 300 a minute. The story goes that she still managed a few drinks somehow.2 -
ShootersHillGuru said:I don’t pretend to be a student of this period but I thought I was reasonably clued up. I watched a tv programme last night fronted by Robert Rinder and Historian Ruth Goodman. The period in focus was the London blitz, starting in September 1940. Decent enough programme but it mentioned something that I was totally unaware of. Before the German Luftwaffe bombed London for the first time on 7th September 1940, The RAF bomber command had carried out a bombing raid on Berlin on 25th August. Infuriating Hitler that he raged that London would be flattened. Perhaps I should have known about our raid before the German retaliation but I didn’t. I’m sure a good number of you will have far more knowledge than I obviously have. Any comments
It was the beginning of a change of strategy by the Luftwaffe to switch from bombing RAF airfields and industrial targets by day, to a policy of bombing Britain's industrial cities.
Bomber Command did indeed bomb Berlin the next night and caused minimal damage and casualties but such was the shock that the RAF had actually bombed targets in Germany, when Goering had basically promised immunity from such attacks, Hitler was moved to publicly change strategy to a policy of what became the night time area bombing of London and other British towns and cities.
What we now call the First Blitz or Night Blitz began on "Black Saturday" 7 September 1940 with a combination of daylight and night time raids on London and continued initially for 57 consecutive nights and then right through to the night of 10/11 May 1941, which was ironically the heaviest raid on London of the entire war, when 540 bombers dropped something in the region of 700 tonnes of High Explosive and a further 86 tonnes of Incendiaries, which killed 1,436 Londoners.
To give a little context to this raid, if one compares it to the second "Gomorrah" raid on Hamburg on 27/28 July 1943, 787 aircraft of Bomber Command dropped 2,326 tons of bombs on the city, including about 350,000 incendiaries. The firestorm caused by this raid killed something in the region of 34,000 people - more than were killed in London during the entire war.
During the entire war, the RAF dropped some 80,000,000 (eighty million) individual incendiary bombs on German targets.
The Luftwaffe was essentially a tactical air force, used to support the army in swift attacks when they had overwhelming air superiority. The twin engined medium bombers that they used could never hope to deliver the bomb loads required to truly devastate a city the size of London. The Battle of Britain severely blunted the Luftwaffe and there were many senior figures amongst the Luftwaffe who felt it never truly recovered from this defeat in 1940.
Bomber Command in contrast was a strategic air force, from late 1942 equipped largely with four engined "heavies", initially the Stirling and Halifax but in increasing numbers the Lancaster. It was a force specifically created to destroy German cities and industry, as well as to eliminate and demoralise the civilian population.19 -
Off_it said:se9addick said:Raith_C_Chattonell said:My dear departed mother-in-law was a stones throw away in Islington when this iconic picture was taken. It was her 21st birthday.
From the program last night I learnt that the Germans dropped 100,000 incendiary bombs during the seven hour raid - roughly 300 a minute. The story goes that she still managed a few drinks somehow.
Iconic is an often overused word, but certainly not in this case.
I work near St Paul's now and will often just gaze up at it in awe.0 -
Recently walked down Lewishamstrasse in Berlin, named as an act of reconciliation after the war.4
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I started work in the City in 1956 and I remember there were enormous bomb sites in Cannon Street, Cheapside and the Barbican area.4
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ShootersHillGuru said:The house I grew up in was In Kinveachy Gardens SE7 and from looking at a bomb map it was noted that this dwelling was seriousply damaged but not destroyed by enemy bombing. Halfway down Kinveachy Gardens and opposite number 53 where I lived there is a small block of flats where the bomb completely destroyed I would say about eight houses.
“A trio of rockets fell on south east London during the morning of 14th November [1944]. Petts Wood was shaken awake by the first of these at 6.25am. In Bushey Avenue and Towncourt Lane 2 died and 25 suffered injury. The next destination at 8.40am was Sherrard Road, Eltham, by Well Hall station, killing 8 people at No.s 50-60, and injuring 92. Casualties included ‘clippies’ at the bus terminus. Alsatians proved their worth by indicating the position of several trapped survivors.
Scarcely half an hour later, a rocket broke up over Charlton, with the warhead exploding on council houses in Kinveachy Gardens. Three died at No. 79-83 and 35 were injured. In a million-to-one unlucky chance a segment of the missile fell through the roof of 24 Aldeburgh Street, over a mile away, killing a 60 year old man as he lay in bed”.
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Tom_Hovi said:ShootersHillGuru said:I don’t pretend to be a student of this period but I thought I was reasonably clued up. I watched a tv programme last night fronted by Robert Rinder and Historian Ruth Goodman. The period in focus was the London blitz, starting in September 1940. Decent enough programme but it mentioned something that I was totally unaware of. Before the German Luftwaffe bombed London for the first time on 7th September 1940, The RAF bomber command had carried out a bombing raid on Berlin on 25th August. Infuriating Hitler that he raged that London would be flattened. Perhaps I should have known about our raid before the German retaliation but I didn’t. I’m sure a good number of you will have far more knowledge than I obviously have. Any comments
It was the beginning of a change of strategy by the Luftwaffe to switch from bombing RAF airfields and industrial targets by day, to a policy of bombing Britain's industrial cities.
Bomber Command did indeed bomb Berlin the next night and caused minimal damage and casualties but such was the shock that the RAF had actually bombed targets in Germany, when Goering had basically promised immunity from such attacks, Hitler was moved to publicly change strategy to a policy of what became the night time area bombing of London and other British towns and cities.
What we now call the First Blitz or Night Blitz began on "Black Saturday" 7 September 1940 with a combination of daylight and night time raids on London and continued initially for 57 consecutive nights and then right through to the night of 10/11 May 1941, which was ironically the heaviest raid on London of the entire war, when 540 bombers dropped something in the region of 700 tonnes of High Explosive and a further 86 tonnes of Incendiaries, which killed 1,436 Londoners.
To give a little context to this raid, if one compares it to the second "Gomorrah" raid on Hamburg on 27/28 July 1943, 787 aircraft of Bomber Command dropped 2,326 tons of bombs on the city, including about 350,000 incendiaries. The firestorm caused by this raid killed something in the region of 34,000 people - more than were killed in London during the entire war.
During the entire war, the RAF dropped some 80,000,000 (eighty million) individual incendiary bombs on German targets.
The Luftwaffe was essentially a tactical air force, used to support the army in swift attacks when they had overwhelming air superiority. The twin engined medium bombers that they used could never hope to deliver the bomb loads required to truly devastate a city the size of London. The Battle of Britain severely blunted the Luftwaffe and there were many senior figures amongst the Luftwaffe who felt it never truly recovered from this defeat in 1940.
Bomber Command in contrast was a strategic air force, from late 1942 equipped largely with four engined "heavies", initially the Stirling and Halifax but in increasing numbers the Lancaster. It was a force specifically created to destroy German cities and industry, as well as to eliminate and demoralise the civilian population.2 -
Hi @Tom_Hovi
Respect
Got anything to say about the Baedecker raids?
I do walking tours of Norwich and refer to this. I.e. that in retaliation for allied bombing of Lubeck, the Germans decided to bomb cultural heritage cities in England. This was 1942. The targets were chosen on the basis of a tourist guide written by a man named Baedecker, hence the "Baedecker raids". I know Exeter was another chosen.
Any other context/detail gratefully received3 -
Was it a mistake that the Germans bombed Dublin several times in ‘41?0
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guinnessaddick said:Was it a mistake that the Germans bombed Dublin several times in ‘41?3
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Henry Irving said:guinnessaddick said:Was it a mistake that the Germans bombed Dublin several times in ‘41?0
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Reichstag Do.
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Lots of comments on this thread from various people, none of you tempted by our trip to Arnhem?2
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SuedeAdidas said:Reichstag Do.0
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A little aside, the Battle of Britain Museum at Hawkinge (Well worth a visit) Has the Air Raid siren that was on top of the main gate of the Arsenal.
It would have sounded over Plumstead and Woolwich.1 -
usetobunkin said:A little aside, the Battle of Britain Museum at Hawkinge (Well worth a visit) Has the Air Raid siren that was on top of the main gate of the Arsenal.
It would have sounded over Plumstead and Woolwich.0 -
LargeAddick said:Lots of comments on this thread from various people, none of you tempted by our trip to Arnhem?6
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Thanks Steve (Tom Hovi), as ever for offering some decent context, its impossible to cover any subject in the detail it deserves in 90 minutes, however, I was pleased to be able to help the programme in some small way.
What it failed to point out is that the typical Blitz Experience by Londoners sat somewhere in between the Ritz and London Docks, they chose the extremes.
I havent watched the programme yet, (it was filmed back in April), but aside my personal onscreen fashion fauxpas with silk scarves, it appears to have been fairly well received.
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Lincsaddick said:A lot of my early childhood was spent playing wiv me mates in the bomb sites spread around the Lewisham area thanks to the Blitz1
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Siv_in_Norfolk said:Hi @Tom_Hovi
Respect
Got anything to say about the Baedecker raids?
I do walking tours of Norwich and refer to this. I.e. that in retaliation for allied bombing of Lubeck, the Germans decided to bomb cultural heritage cities in England. This was 1942. The targets were chosen on the basis of a tourist guide written by a man named Baedecker, hence the "Baedecker raids". I know Exeter was another chosen.
Any other context/detail gratefully received
As you say it was reputed to be in retaliation to the bombing of Lubeck, a historic city with an old city centre built predominantly of timber framed buildings that was used by “Bomber” Harris as something of an experiment to see if his plans for area bombing of cities were viable.
The Baedecker Raids were so named because the story goes that the targets were selected as being historically and culturally significant cities chosen from the Baedecker Tourist Guide Books.
One of my fellow guides, a lady called Jo Hook does occasional guided walks in Norwich (her home town) that focus on the Baedecker raids on the city. Drop me a DM and I can share her email address.1