Savings and Investments thread

PoA only becomes active when the person is unable to make decisions due to mental incapacity. Which my FiL never was. 

£64 k mortgage owed about £56k, early redemption was £2k.

solicitor fee was over 4k. FA 2.2k (or thereabouts’ ) Interest accruing at about £60 per day  after my FiL passed. The land search fee was about £400 and a credit score check £40. 

usetobunkin said:

PoA only becomes active when the person is unable to make decisions due to mental incapacity. Which my FiL never was. 

The mischief for me was the sharp practice with regard to the charges and fees. He had a small mortgage (£64k) which we as a family could have serviced. 

We were totally unaware of the agreement until we were dealing with the estate. 

The ER company acted in a deplorable manner and had zero empathy while we got to grips with the matter. The interest was accruing and add £ 1600, plus more fees to settle.

As I have said complaint were lodged but no legal fault was found. 

However I feel the FA, and Solicitors were underhanded. 

Sorry @usedtobunkin - but i'm a little confused here as to where there is an issue, aside from feeling some of the fee's were in your view excessive, and I hope this doesn't come across as sounding uncaring, but:

Your wife/family had no Power of Attorney, by your own admission your FiL had his full mental capacity and therefore the LPoA was not enacted and rightly so.

I'm not sure if there are different laws at different ages etc, but why would they consult the family? if I use Golfie (as I have) for financial advice, i'd be very unimpressed (and suspect he'd be breaking the law) if he went and consulted my children about my personal finances.

A loans interest doesn't stop accruing just because someone has died. if I died with a 'standard' mortgage interest would still accrue, as it would with a personal loan, until such time as it is settled.

The way ER schemes generally work is you borrow money, all interest is added to the loan each day/month/year, so of course over time the debt grows as you are choosing to not pay the interest (unlike say on an interest only mortgage). If the interest rate was 5% then a 56k loan would grow to £100k in about 12-13 years. That's how these products work. 

However what sounds slightly odd is how the loan grew to £105k in 18 months. Even if the £8.5k fee's were added to the loan (making it £64.5k) the interest rate would have to have been around 45-50%.

Rob7Lee said:

usetobunkin said:

PoA only becomes active when the person is unable to make decisions due to mental incapacity. Which my FiL never was. 

The mischief for me was the sharp practice with regard to the charges and fees. He had a small mortgage (£64k) which we as a family could have serviced. 

We were totally unaware of the agreement until we were dealing with the estate. 

The ER company acted in a deplorable manner and had zero empathy while we got to grips with the matter. The interest was accruing and add £ 1600, plus more fees to settle.

As I have said complaint were lodged but no legal fault was found. 

However I feel the FA, and Solicitors were underhanded. 

Sorry @usedtobunkin - but i'm a little confused here as to where there is an issue, aside from feeling some of the fee's were in your view excessive, and I hope this doesn't come across as sounding uncaring, but:

Your wife/family had no Power of Attorney, by your own admission your FiL had his full mental capacity and therefore the LPoA was not enacted and rightly so.

I'm not sure if there are different laws at different ages etc, but why would they consult the family? if I use Golfie (as I have) for financial advice, i'd be very unimpressed (and suspect he'd be breaking the law) if he went and consulted my children about my personal finances.

A loans interest doesn't stop accruing just because someone has died. if I died with a 'standard' mortgage interest would still accrue, as it would with a personal loan, until such time as it is settled.

The way ER schemes generally work is you borrow money, all interest is added to the loan each day/month/year, so of course over time the debt grows as you are choosing to not pay the interest (unlike say on an interest only mortgage). If the interest rate was 5% then a 56k loan would grow to £100k in about 12-13 years. That's how these products work. 

However what sounds slightly odd is how the loan grew to £105k in 18 months. Even if the £8.5k fee's were added to the loan (making it £64.5k) the interest rate would have to have been around 45-50%.

I believe the loan via ER was £90k.

Seeing as the there was  £22k in savings on death, and the outstanding loan was £64k (?) then it looks like not much of the excess was spent over the 18 months.

I dont want to sound unkind either, and although the solicitor & Financial Adviser costs do seem a bit high, they are not exorbitant in the extreme. The fact that the £90k loan was £105k after 18 months is a little strange, but if the interest rate was 7% ish and there were early repayment fees then that might account for most of the £15k extra. 

As I've said, I have advised on ER in the past & the "product" is now very heavily regulated.....unlike in the 90's and early 2000's when it was in its infancy.

usetobunkin said:

golfaddick said:

Rob7Lee said:

usetobunkin said:

PoA only becomes active when the person is unable to make decisions due to mental incapacity. Which my FiL never was. 

The mischief for me was the sharp practice with regard to the charges and fees. He had a small mortgage (£64k) which we as a family could have serviced. 

We were totally unaware of the agreement until we were dealing with the estate. 

The ER company acted in a deplorable manner and had zero empathy while we got to grips with the matter. The interest was accruing and add £ 1600, plus more fees to settle.

As I have said complaint were lodged but no legal fault was found. 

However I feel the FA, and Solicitors were underhanded. 

Sorry @usedtobunkin - but i'm a little confused here as to where there is an issue, aside from feeling some of the fee's were in your view excessive, and I hope this doesn't come across as sounding uncaring, but:

Your wife/family had no Power of Attorney, by your own admission your FiL had his full mental capacity and therefore the LPoA was not enacted and rightly so.

I'm not sure if there are different laws at different ages etc, but why would they consult the family? if I use Golfie (as I have) for financial advice, i'd be very unimpressed (and suspect he'd be breaking the law) if he went and consulted my children about my personal finances.

A loans interest doesn't stop accruing just because someone has died. if I died with a 'standard' mortgage interest would still accrue, as it would with a personal loan, until such time as it is settled.

The way ER schemes generally work is you borrow money, all interest is added to the loan each day/month/year, so of course over time the debt grows as you are choosing to not pay the interest (unlike say on an interest only mortgage). If the interest rate was 5% then a 56k loan would grow to £100k in about 12-13 years. That's how these products work. 

However what sounds slightly odd is how the loan grew to £105k in 18 months. Even if the £8.5k fee's were added to the loan (making it £64.5k) the interest rate would have to have been around 45-50%.

I believe the loan via ER was £90k.

Seeing as the there was  £22k in savings on death, and the outstanding loan was £64k (?) then it looks like not much of the excess was spent over the 18 months.

I dont want to sound unkind either, and although the solicitor & Financial Adviser costs do seem a bit high, they are not exorbitant in the extreme. The fact that the £90k loan was £105k after 18 months is a little strange, but if the interest rate was 7% ish and there were early repayment fees then that might account for most of the £15k extra. 

As I've said, I have advised on ER in the past & the "product" is now very heavily regulated.....unlike in the 90's and early 2000's when it was in its infancy.

Thank you for the comments and I appreciate your feedback. The figures I quoted are from memory but are certainly ball park figures. 

I feel the FA acted appalling. My FIL had run his own business for many years and was quite savvy with his finances. 

However the bypass of his solicitor was also a calculated move by his FA. 

While I have said it was all quite legal. I feel that it was “taking advantage of” when for the family better solution was available.

I understand that, and despite heavy regulation it may be the FA pushed the boundaries.

but for whatever reason, your FIL didn’t want to include the family in this decision, I actually understand that as I’ve aged (and seen my parents age and subsequently pass). Whilst in the cold light of day I’m sure you are right, the best outcome for the family was to have all discussed and come up with a better/different solution. If he was anything like my parents/grand parents, I suspect it was pride of being the elder statesman of the family and not wanting to what he would have felt, burden you all.

it was I’m sure that pride that made him a great father/father in law. Sometimes you have to take the rough with the smooth……..

either way I hope you can put all this behind you and move on.

Rob7Lee said:

usetobunkin said:

golfaddick said:

Rob7Lee said:

usetobunkin said:

PoA only becomes active when the person is unable to make decisions due to mental incapacity. Which my FiL never was. 

The mischief for me was the sharp practice with regard to the charges and fees. He had a small mortgage (£64k) which we as a family could have serviced. 

We were totally unaware of the agreement until we were dealing with the estate. 

The ER company acted in a deplorable manner and had zero empathy while we got to grips with the matter. The interest was accruing and add £ 1600, plus more fees to settle.

As I have said complaint were lodged but no legal fault was found. 

However I feel the FA, and Solicitors were underhanded. 

Sorry @usedtobunkin - but i'm a little confused here as to where there is an issue, aside from feeling some of the fee's were in your view excessive, and I hope this doesn't come across as sounding uncaring, but:

Your wife/family had no Power of Attorney, by your own admission your FiL had his full mental capacity and therefore the LPoA was not enacted and rightly so.

I'm not sure if there are different laws at different ages etc, but why would they consult the family? if I use Golfie (as I have) for financial advice, i'd be very unimpressed (and suspect he'd be breaking the law) if he went and consulted my children about my personal finances.

A loans interest doesn't stop accruing just because someone has died. if I died with a 'standard' mortgage interest would still accrue, as it would with a personal loan, until such time as it is settled.

The way ER schemes generally work is you borrow money, all interest is added to the loan each day/month/year, so of course over time the debt grows as you are choosing to not pay the interest (unlike say on an interest only mortgage). If the interest rate was 5% then a 56k loan would grow to £100k in about 12-13 years. That's how these products work. 

However what sounds slightly odd is how the loan grew to £105k in 18 months. Even if the £8.5k fee's were added to the loan (making it £64.5k) the interest rate would have to have been around 45-50%.

I believe the loan via ER was £90k.

Seeing as the there was  £22k in savings on death, and the outstanding loan was £64k (?) then it looks like not much of the excess was spent over the 18 months.

I dont want to sound unkind either, and although the solicitor & Financial Adviser costs do seem a bit high, they are not exorbitant in the extreme. The fact that the £90k loan was £105k after 18 months is a little strange, but if the interest rate was 7% ish and there were early repayment fees then that might account for most of the £15k extra. 

As I've said, I have advised on ER in the past & the "product" is now very heavily regulated.....unlike in the 90's and early 2000's when it was in its infancy.

Thank you for the comments and I appreciate your feedback. The figures I quoted are from memory but are certainly ball park figures. 

I feel the FA acted appalling. My FIL had run his own business for many years and was quite savvy with his finances. 

However the bypass of his solicitor was also a calculated move by his FA. 

While I have said it was all quite legal. I feel that it was “taking advantage of” when for the family better solution was available.

I understand that, and despite heavy regulation it may be the FA pushed the boundaries.

but for whatever reason, your FIL didn’t want to include the family in this decision, I actually understand that as I’ve aged (and seen my parents age and subsequently pass). Whilst in the cold light of day I’m sure you are right, the best outcome for the family was to have all discussed and come up with a better/different solution. If he was anything like my parents/grand parents, I suspect it was pride of being the elder statesman of the family and not wanting to what he would have felt, burden you all.

it was I’m sure that pride that made him a great father/father in law. Sometimes you have to take the rough with the smooth……..

either way I hope you can put all this behind you and move on.

Thank you very much for your insight and I truly do appreciate your feedback. (Also the other comments from other posters)

Couple of months in now, go on the @Covered End

FTSE100 Level	9,216.87
Name	Level	Variance	% Variance
Covered End	9220	3.13	0.03%
Carter	9212	4.87	0.05%
Jamescafc	9200	16.87	0.18%
CharltonKerry	9234	17.13	0.19%
TheGhostofTomHovi	9236	19.13	0.21%
blackpool72	9245	28.13	0.31%
Housty	9254	37.13	0.40%
Addickinedi	9176	40.87	0.44%
RalphMilne	9168	48.87	0.53%
valleynick66	9165	51.87	0.56%
Hornchurch	9275	58.13	0.63%
guinnessaddick	9152	64.87	0.70%
thecat	9136	80.87	0.88%
meldrew66	9301	84.13	0.91%
fat man on a moped	9116	100.87	1.09%
wwaddick	9104	112.87	1.22%
golfaddick	9101	115.87	1.26%
WishIdStayedInThe Pub	9101	115.87	1.26%
WHAddick	9335	118.13	1.28%
Jon_CAFC_	9088	128.87	1.40%
StrikerFirmani	9365	148.13	1.61%
BalladMan	9058	158.87	1.72%
cafcpolo	9395	178.13	1.93%
Diebythesword	9400	183.13	1.99%
Huskaris	9025	191.87	2.08%
Solidgone	9021	195.87	2.13%
Addick Addict	9424	207.13	2.25%
Rob7Lee	9000	216.87	2.35%
IdleHans	9434	217.13	2.36%
Bangkokaddick	8998	218.87	2.37%
@TelMc32	9450	233.13	2.53%
Pedro45	8925	291.87	3.17%
Arsenetatters	9525	308.13	3.34%
LargeAddick	8884	332.87	3.61%
Redman	8876	340.87	3.70%
holyjo	8810	406.87	4.41%
Friend or Defoe	9657	440.13	4.78%
PragueAddick	8725	491.87	5.34%
Jints	9750	533.13	5.78%
Thread Killer	9761	544.13	5.90%
CAFCWest	8621	595.87	6.46%
Fortune 82nd Minute	8571	645.87	7.01%
HardyAddick	8548	668.87	7.26%
bobmunro	8452	764.87	8.30%
Lenglover	8301	915.87	9.94%
Siv_In_Norfolk	7400	1816.87	19.71%
Er_Be_Ab_Pl_Wo_Wo_Ch	6500	2716.87	29.48%

Rob7Lee said:

usetobunkin said:

Rob7Lee said:

usetobunkin said:

golfaddick said:

Rob7Lee said:

usetobunkin said:

PoA only becomes active when the person is unable to make decisions due to mental incapacity. Which my FiL never was. 

The mischief for me was the sharp practice with regard to the charges and fees. He had a small mortgage (£64k) which we as a family could have serviced. 

We were totally unaware of the agreement until we were dealing with the estate. 

The ER company acted in a deplorable manner and had zero empathy while we got to grips with the matter. The interest was accruing and add £ 1600, plus more fees to settle.

As I have said complaint were lodged but no legal fault was found. 

However I feel the FA, and Solicitors were underhanded. 

Sorry @usedtobunkin - but i'm a little confused here as to where there is an issue, aside from feeling some of the fee's were in your view excessive, and I hope this doesn't come across as sounding uncaring, but:

Your wife/family had no Power of Attorney, by your own admission your FiL had his full mental capacity and therefore the LPoA was not enacted and rightly so.

I'm not sure if there are different laws at different ages etc, but why would they consult the family? if I use Golfie (as I have) for financial advice, i'd be very unimpressed (and suspect he'd be breaking the law) if he went and consulted my children about my personal finances.

A loans interest doesn't stop accruing just because someone has died. if I died with a 'standard' mortgage interest would still accrue, as it would with a personal loan, until such time as it is settled.

The way ER schemes generally work is you borrow money, all interest is added to the loan each day/month/year, so of course over time the debt grows as you are choosing to not pay the interest (unlike say on an interest only mortgage). If the interest rate was 5% then a 56k loan would grow to £100k in about 12-13 years. That's how these products work. 

However what sounds slightly odd is how the loan grew to £105k in 18 months. Even if the £8.5k fee's were added to the loan (making it £64.5k) the interest rate would have to have been around 45-50%.

I believe the loan via ER was £90k.

Seeing as the there was  £22k in savings on death, and the outstanding loan was £64k (?) then it looks like not much of the excess was spent over the 18 months.

I dont want to sound unkind either, and although the solicitor & Financial Adviser costs do seem a bit high, they are not exorbitant in the extreme. The fact that the £90k loan was £105k after 18 months is a little strange, but if the interest rate was 7% ish and there were early repayment fees then that might account for most of the £15k extra. 

As I've said, I have advised on ER in the past & the "product" is now very heavily regulated.....unlike in the 90's and early 2000's when it was in its infancy.

Thank you for the comments and I appreciate your feedback. The figures I quoted are from memory but are certainly ball park figures. 

I feel the FA acted appalling. My FIL had run his own business for many years and was quite savvy with his finances. 

However the bypass of his solicitor was also a calculated move by his FA. 

While I have said it was all quite legal. I feel that it was “taking advantage of” when for the family better solution was available.

I understand that, and despite heavy regulation it may be the FA pushed the boundaries.

but for whatever reason, your FIL didn’t want to include the family in this decision, I actually understand that as I’ve aged (and seen my parents age and subsequently pass). Whilst in the cold light of day I’m sure you are right, the best outcome for the family was to have all discussed and come up with a better/different solution. If he was anything like my parents/grand parents, I suspect it was pride of being the elder statesman of the family and not wanting to what he would have felt, burden you all.

it was I’m sure that pride that made him a great father/father in law. Sometimes you have to take the rough with the smooth……..

either way I hope you can put all this behind you and move on.

Thank you very much for your insight and I truly do appreciate your feedback. (Also the other comments from other posters)

The family have moved on, and remember the old chap with fondness. 

Once again a big thank you for your support.

No worries mate, these things are never easy or straight forward. My Father had early onset dementia in his 50's, there were some people who definitely took advantage of that and that is never nice to find out, I'm just glad he never knew. Especially as they were people close to him. Whilst most weren't large sums of money, I could have gone after them quite easily, but in the end for my own sanity and to move on I let it go (but making sure they knew I knew), financially he didn't suffer or lose out on anything, but I hope they all had trouble sleeping at night (wishful thinking!).

Really glad to hear you've put it behind you and that you all can remember the good times and look back with fondness. To be remembered fondly is probably what we all want (so when I pop my clogs you'd better all post on this thread what a top bloke I was  )

My dad was the same sadly, early 50s as well. I remember one night coming home and a door to door fish salesman had sold him about 5 kilos of prawns 

Chartlon life hive mind.  Currently have a Stocks and Shares ISA with fidelity, invested solely in 'Lindsell Train Global Equity Fund B GBP Inc'.  1st year it performed well (10pc), second year OK (8pc), but this year just 6pc growth and decreasing.  
- I want to be on a fund not individual shares (I don't have the time to spend on researching)
- I ideally want 8-10 growth per annum 
- I am prepared to be in for 5-10 years, no immediate plans for the cash

Any recommendations on Fidelity.  Would rather not move providers if I can avoid it as they are generally much of a muchness to the average punter like me.

golfaddick said:

BalladMan said:

Chartlon life hive mind.  Currently have a Stocks and Shares ISA with fidelity, invested solely in 'Lindsell Train Global Equity Fund B GBP Inc'.  1st year it performed well (10pc), second year OK (8pc), but this year just 6pc growth and decreasing.  
- I want to be on a fund not individual shares (I don't have the time to spend on researching)
- I ideally want 8-10 growth per annum 
- I am prepared to be in for 5-10 years, no immediate plans for the cash

Any recommendations on Fidelity.  Would rather not move providers if I can avoid it as they are generally much of a muchness to the average punter like me.

Well firstly no-one can guarantee you growth and ultimately a fund can only return what the markets are doing.

I know some on here don't like active funds & believe passive / trackers are best, but I believe a good active fund will beat a passive fund over time.

Currently my favourite global equity funds are -

Artemis Global Income
Argonaut Flexible 
Orbis Global Equity

Can't remember if they are all on Fidelity as they don't offer all funds like most other platforms, but have a look at let me know if you need any other recommendations.

Thanks for the advice, will take a look into the above. 

Going back to equity release.
There was a post on Facebook yesterday about the pitfall of ER.
Over 18 years the original £21000 had grown to £150000 half of the estate.
How much of this has actually been lost though?
I sold a property 18 years ago that property has doubled in price.
Are you that much out of pocket after 18 years if you had decided to downsize?

Equity release can be very good if you know and understand what you are doing (like most things).

golfaddick said:

Early afternoon in the US and both the Dow Jones and the S&P500 have hit new all time highs.

Since April 8th when they both had fallen for a week after Trump's "Liberation Day" they are up 22% & 32% respectively. 

Just checked my SIPP. From 8th April to today it's also up 22%. Seeing as I've got less than 25% exposure to the US, with around 20% UK exposure & 20% Europe, Asia & Japan combined then I don't think I'm doing that bad.

I'm trimmed all my holdings yesterday, quite considerably, including UK as can see some dips coming at budget time (which I know is still 2+ months away)

Since switching my main SIPP back to Fidelity on 14th March I'm up 27.24% but had a lot more US (and UK) than you.

FTSE100 just jumped 20 points in 5 mins, which is a big spike in normal times. No idea why as there has not been any market sensitive announcements. 

Edit.

Panic over. Market has slowly come back down & now trading roughly where it was an hour ago.