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After the Millwall game - club reply to CAST p34, further CAST response p45
Comments
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Only to a certain extent.Chris_from_Sidcup said:The ridiculous thing about all of this is that it's not even a bunch of day trippers looking for aggro like you'd get at Wembley or what you'd expect at a home game where there's 16k of them. To get a ticket for Charlton away you've got to be (i assume) a regular away traveller with a high points total.
One thing is certain though, whatever plan the police concoct for next season it has to be different to the shambles from Saturday.
Like us, there fan base will have there regular away travellers on high loyalty points but probably not all that many. I don’t know how many fans they average to take to away games but it certainly won’t be in the thousands where the top 3,200 regulars were the ones who got all the tickets.Let’s say they average 800 away an away game that’s still only 25% of the allocation. You could even be generous and say based on an average just under 1,100 that would still only be 33% of the allocation.
You can probably assume at least 50% of them would have been day trippers, away casuals or whatever label you want to put on them.
If only offered them at most whatever the average is they take to an away day then that point would probably stick about being regulars only.0 -
They probably only have about 500 regular travelers.guinnessaddick said:
I know one spanner who lives up north who was at the game, a member only, he managed to get a ticket in JS.Chris_from_Sidcup said:The ridiculous thing about all of this is that it's not even a bunch of day trippers looking for aggro like you'd get at Wembley or what you'd expect at a home game where there's 16k of them. To get a ticket for Charlton away you've got to be (i assume) a regular away traveller with a high points total.
One thing is certain though, whatever plan the police concoct for next season it has to be different to the shambles from Saturday.1 -
I know of one of them in the covered end, old work colleague, saw him before the game started on the concourse, told me he had his charlton mates season ticket, that fella needs to give his head a wobble.6
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These particular gates, like others, have a secondary twist mechanism which slots into the ground, as well as the bolt between them. However, as the gates open into the AC Stand this is on the Jimmy Seed Stand side. Normally the stewards would be on the inside of gates - for example, the exit gates on to Harvey Gardens - but here they were on the outside. This may be a factor in why the Millwall fans were able to get through but you can understand why the stewards were on the “wrong” side.CharltonKerry said:
Emergency exits cannot be locked shut whilst stand / venue is occupied, however they can be fitted with panic bolts / push bars which allow immediate exit and prevent ingress. Fire doors must be able to fully open from the inside with no obstructions.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
As far as I am aware there is no reason why that gate could not have been locked PROVIDED the key is held by a responsible person in the vicinity or is stored in the immediate vicinity and is readily available at all times.Covered End said:
Excellent, so they'll all just exit that way next time.Airman Brown said:
Emergency escape route. Doubt you are allowed to lock it.ElfsborgAddick said:I am baffled how this gate was able to be opened. Surely it is normally locked.
You couldn't make this nonsense up (not you Airman).
Think about it. All venues have emergency exits but these are generally not kept open because you would get people from outside using them to gain unauthorised entry.
The reason the gates open that way is probably that it is an escape route for the JS Stand but not one for the AC Stand, which has two other exits.4 -
Muggy comments are becoming a thing on this forum. Keyboards empower...sunbury-addick said:
YepElfsborgAddick said:
Really.Valleysarr said:
Mate you are a mugElfsborgAddick said:
Well in that case I am wrong. I thought you walked along the concourse and turned left.AFKABartram said:
Are you on a wind up? You have to go to the bottom of the area to go up the stairs.ElfsborgAddick said:
They did not need to go down the stairs, the exits are upstairs.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:ElfsborgAddick said:
My point is that if there was nobody the other side of the gate this would not have happened.Karim_myBagheri said:
It's on this thread as well. Doesn't really change anything to what Rodney has posted.ElfsborgAddick said:
@oohaahmortimer has plonked a YouTube clip on the other thread that changes things a tad.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:Curb_It said:
This is horrible. I hope the fan who got a punch there makes a complaint to the club. Shocking policing.TootingRedArmy said:
Bloke who is clearly not about all that in glasses holding his hands up to show he's not interested gets a clump. If that's what their lot are about these days deary me. Breaking into a stand housed by mainly scarfer types and clearly significantly outnumbering those who are up for it.
Puts to bed all that bollocks about bullshit romanticised honour and code and nonsense that gets rolled out in the hoolie wanksfest films. Get up to the woods with like minded people, pay a subsidy to the NHS to sort you out afterwards or go to a boxing club and leave the rest of us to get on with the game ffs.
Tragic, inadequate people. Bullies
A couple of Charlton idiots who either ran or the Millwall lot didn't get to them doesn't mean it's alright to start on whoever next is available
There's always gonna be people there it's e to the stairs for the the fucking exit. Absolutely no need for their fans to be there as their exit is the other end....other than looking to have a row.Put your phone away and go and have a beer and samba on the beach or something
No need for the sarcasm.1 -
To be honest, I think I’m right in saying it’s a pretty flimsy looking gate.valleynick66 said:
I’d imagine they are never locked during a game. Just manned in case of emergency.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
As far as I am aware there is no reason why that gate could not have been locked PROVIDED the key is held by a responsible person in the vicinity or is stored in the immediate vicinity and is readily available at all times.Covered End said:
Excellent, so they'll all just exit that way next time.Airman Brown said:
Emergency escape route. Doubt you are allowed to lock it.ElfsborgAddick said:I am baffled how this gate was able to be opened. Surely it is normally locked.
You couldn't make this nonsense up (not you Airman).
Think about it. All venues have emergency exits but these are generally not kept open because you would get people from outside using them to gain unauthorised entry.The cock up seems to be no police at this gate.But im
not sure we regularly see police here with other away followings - maybe we do?It’s clearly a mistake on this occasion but I’m wondering maybe the norm even when other less desirable away followings have been at the ground.
I think it needs some new fencing and a far more substantial gate, along the lines of the ones The Spanners have behind the away end at their place. It’s like being in a prison exercise yard.0 -
Not sure you're in a position to give that view.sunbury-addick said:
YepElfsborgAddick said:
Really.Valleysarr said:
Mate you are a mugElfsborgAddick said:
Well in that case I am wrong. I thought you walked along the concourse and turned left.AFKABartram said:
Are you on a wind up? You have to go to the bottom of the area to go up the stairs.ElfsborgAddick said:
They did not need to go down the stairs, the exits are upstairs.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:ElfsborgAddick said:
My point is that if there was nobody the other side of the gate this would not have happened.Karim_myBagheri said:
It's on this thread as well. Doesn't really change anything to what Rodney has posted.ElfsborgAddick said:
@oohaahmortimer has plonked a YouTube clip on the other thread that changes things a tad.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:Curb_It said:
This is horrible. I hope the fan who got a punch there makes a complaint to the club. Shocking policing.TootingRedArmy said:
Bloke who is clearly not about all that in glasses holding his hands up to show he's not interested gets a clump. If that's what their lot are about these days deary me. Breaking into a stand housed by mainly scarfer types and clearly significantly outnumbering those who are up for it.
Puts to bed all that bollocks about bullshit romanticised honour and code and nonsense that gets rolled out in the hoolie wanksfest films. Get up to the woods with like minded people, pay a subsidy to the NHS to sort you out afterwards or go to a boxing club and leave the rest of us to get on with the game ffs.
Tragic, inadequate people. Bullies
A couple of Charlton idiots who either ran or the Millwall lot didn't get to them doesn't mean it's alright to start on whoever next is available
There's always gonna be people there it's e to the stairs for the the fucking exit. Absolutely no need for their fans to be there as their exit is the other end....other than looking to have a row.Put your phone away and go and have a beer and samba on the beach or something
No need for the sarcasm.0 -
Thank you.SporadicAddick said:
Muggy comments are becoming a thing on this forum. Keyboards empower...sunbury-addick said:
YepElfsborgAddick said:
Really.Valleysarr said:
Mate you are a mugElfsborgAddick said:
Well in that case I am wrong. I thought you walked along the concourse and turned left.AFKABartram said:
Are you on a wind up? You have to go to the bottom of the area to go up the stairs.ElfsborgAddick said:
They did not need to go down the stairs, the exits are upstairs.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:ElfsborgAddick said:
My point is that if there was nobody the other side of the gate this would not have happened.Karim_myBagheri said:
It's on this thread as well. Doesn't really change anything to what Rodney has posted.ElfsborgAddick said:
@oohaahmortimer has plonked a YouTube clip on the other thread that changes things a tad.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:Curb_It said:
This is horrible. I hope the fan who got a punch there makes a complaint to the club. Shocking policing.TootingRedArmy said:
Bloke who is clearly not about all that in glasses holding his hands up to show he's not interested gets a clump. If that's what their lot are about these days deary me. Breaking into a stand housed by mainly scarfer types and clearly significantly outnumbering those who are up for it.
Puts to bed all that bollocks about bullshit romanticised honour and code and nonsense that gets rolled out in the hoolie wanksfest films. Get up to the woods with like minded people, pay a subsidy to the NHS to sort you out afterwards or go to a boxing club and leave the rest of us to get on with the game ffs.
Tragic, inadequate people. Bullies
A couple of Charlton idiots who either ran or the Millwall lot didn't get to them doesn't mean it's alright to start on whoever next is available
There's always gonna be people there it's e to the stairs for the the fucking exit. Absolutely no need for their fans to be there as their exit is the other end....other than looking to have a row.Put your phone away and go and have a beer and samba on the beach or something
No need for the sarcasm.1 -
I wonder IF or WHEN the club will say anything about Saturday Shambles or just ignore what happened?
The lack of any communication, before, during and after is very poor....particularly as we get spammed by emails & instagram on rapid fire posting-promoting ticket sales etc ......5 -
TootingRedArmy said:
punch landing on the fan reasoning with Millwall to not attack fans.......
What an absolute dick head and coward.
Enough evidence for the police to at least try and track him down.4 - Sponsored links:
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It’s Monday morning, no doubt conversations and fact gathering are taking place. Give them a chance I’m sure we’ll hear something.TootingRedArmy said:I wonder IF or WHEN the club will say anything about Saturday Shambles or just ignore what happened?
The lack of any communication, before, during and after is very poor....particularly as we get spammed by emails & instagram on rapid fire posting promoting ticket sales etc ......2 -
I think there should have been a statement from the club Saturday evening. Terrible comms all roundNug said:
It’s Monday morning, no doubt conversations and fact gathering are taking place. Give them a chance I’m sure we’ll hear something.TootingRedArmy said:I wonder IF or WHEN the club will say anything about Saturday Shambles or just ignore what happened?
The lack of any communication, before, during and after is very poor....particularly as we get spammed by emails & instagram on rapid fire posting promoting ticket sales etc ......7 -
I hope you are right but their policy when things go wrong appears to be to say as little as possible and wait for people to move on.Nug said:
It’s Monday morning, no doubt conversations and fact gathering are taking place. Give them a chance I’m sure we’ll hear something.TootingRedArmy said:I wonder IF or WHEN the club will say anything about Saturday Shambles or just ignore what happened?
The lack of any communication, before, during and after is very poor....particularly as we get spammed by emails & instagram on rapid fire posting promoting ticket sales etc ......9 -
I tried to see it from the point of view of what the authorities thought best to do, but I was completely wrong @DOUCHER. I take the above back, you and others were spot onDOUCHER said:
nope - they should be kept in - that is all there is to itcabbles said:
A couple of things for mePragueAddick said:It bothers me that we all so easily accept that if “the police” have decided something we all just have to shut up and accept it. We are not an authoritarian state, and this is not a matter of national security. This particular police unit has imposed something on our club which no other police unit in England has done. And while I don’t agree at all with the cuts to police manpower, this excuse of the central London flashpoints doesnt wash with me, as this is a repeat of what Greenwich police did 12 years ago when they had more manpower and no distractions in central London.
Its too late to stop tomorrows fiasco, but we really ought to be demanding a club/fan rep meeting with Greenwich Police, where they explain their unique approach to away fan policing for this fixture.
One, it’s been announced way too late. If this was the plan, the police, the club, whoever, should’ve been proactive about letting everyone know this was the decision a few weeks ago
Two, I think that there’s a lot going on 2mo in London re; a stretched met police force and the timing of us playing Millwall coincides with West Ham Spurs, other London fixtures and this ‘march of freedom stuff’. I genuinely think that in the interests of making it as easy as possible and avoiding any sort of silliness they’ve opted for segregation. Of course, it’s a piss take and inconvenience, but Floyd Road is tight. As fans all congregate walking back up toward the station, it’s not inconceivable it kicks off and you’ve got two sets of fans going at it in a confined space, something no one wants to see
Three, I completely get the argument about keeping them back and that would be my preferred choice, but is this a case of getting both sets of fans out asap, avoiding the slightest possible fracas. Regardless of the frustration re: we feel getting kept in post games at the Den, we’re not police officers who do this stuff week in week out. Is this just the most efficient, safest way to prevent a few idiots from kicking off.
I completely get the frustration and what seems from the outside looking in, a farce, but maybe this is the most sensible way of avoiding any sort of nonsense, taking info the consideration the game. Not to associate any extremism to the day, but would anyone really want to read about anything kicking off post match. Life’s too short. It’s just a game of football that hopefully we can revel in winning this time 2mo
I do hope this is the case moving forward, and the shambolic farce of Saturday can be used as evidence as to why this should never happen again7 -
They should have been kept in, fire hosed and tear gassed. You know, presumptively.3
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When we laid my dad’s ashes to rest in the garden of remembrance that gate was locked. Why wasn’t it on Saturday?TootingRedArmy said:
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Guardy said:
When we laid my dad’s ashes to rest in the garden of remembrance that gate was locked. Why wasn’t it on Saturday?TootingRedArmy said:I'm assuming there wasn't a match on at the time. As others have said, that gate is an emergency exit and cannot be locked while there is a crowd in the stadium. The issue is that it should have been manned by the police not two stewards who could not be expected to stop the scum coming through.RIP your dad.6 -
And the fans will move on , and put up with the same shit next year if we play them.Airman Brown said:
I hope you are right but their policy when things go wrong appears to be to say as little as possible and wait for people to move on.Nug said:
It’s Monday morning, no doubt conversations and fact gathering are taking place. Give them a chance I’m sure we’ll hear something.TootingRedArmy said:I wonder IF or WHEN the club will say anything about Saturday Shambles or just ignore what happened?
The lack of any communication, before, during and after is very poor....particularly as we get spammed by emails & instagram on rapid fire posting promoting ticket sales etc ......5 -
isn't that why we have a Charlton fan engagement team & CAST to represent us fans V The Club, I don't know who these fans are but i presume they use Charlton Life or were there on Saturday and will be taking this up with the club? Charltons comm's team bombared us fans with emails & insta posts promoting ticket sales, news etc so every hour this silence goes on the worse it looks for the club.......
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I did tell you not to hold your breath!TootingRedArmy said:isn't that why we have a Charlton fan engagement team & CAST to represent us fans V The Club, I don't know who these fans are but i presume they use Charlton Life or were there on Saturday and will be taking this up with the club? Charltons comm's team bombared us fans with emails & insta posts promoting ticket sales, news etc so every hour this silence goes on the worse it looks for the club.......0 - Sponsored links:
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For a start, attach some boarding to the gates so the fans can’t see each other, that would stop the goading between them.9
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Reading through these 28 pages of utter pandemonium and violence with this scummy little club from SE16 only cements the reason why I would never go a Scum derby game again, they have never changed from the 70's/80's, and are still a nothing club with nothing fans.
My heart goes out to any Addicks injured or threatened by this mob of cowards, and hopefully they get banned for life from any football ground again...
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Markg2004 said:In terms of communication from the club, sitting in the Upper West at a match a few seasons ago an announcement was made with 5 minutes to go that the gate onto Valley Grove that comes out by the away fans was closed post-match.
They may not of known until the day before this time around about police arrangements but still absolutely no announcements.
Even a tannoy announcement would've mitigated some of these issues, regardless of whether they were right or wrong.
At least one of the announcers is on this forum, perhaps he can confirm if & when there was an announcement or has he also taken the same vow of silence as the Communications team, Board of directors, Fans advocates &OhMyGodden said:
There was a tannoy announcement about itMarkg2004 said:In terms of communication from the club, sitting in the Upper West at a match a few seasons ago an announcement was made with 5 minutes to go that the gate onto Valley Grove that comes out by the away fans was closed post-match.
They may not of known until the day before this time around about police arrangements but still absolutely no announcements.
Even a tannoy announcement would've mitigated some of these issues, regardless of whether they were right or wrong.
Advisory board.3 -
There was 100% an announcement at full time I could hear it leaving the front of the Covered Upper, we left pretty much at the full time whistle with the announcement maybe 2-3 mins after the game finished.clive said:Markg2004 said:In terms of communication from the club, sitting in the Upper West at a match a few seasons ago an announcement was made with 5 minutes to go that the gate onto Valley Grove that comes out by the away fans was closed post-match.
They may not of known until the day before this time around about police arrangements but still absolutely no announcements.
Even a tannoy announcement would've mitigated some of these issues, regardless of whether they were right or wrong.
At least one of the announcers is on this forum, perhaps he can confirm if & when there was an announcement or has he also taken the same vow of silence as the Communications team, Board of directors, Fans advocates &OhMyGodden said:
There was a tannoy announcement about itMarkg2004 said:In terms of communication from the club, sitting in the Upper West at a match a few seasons ago an announcement was made with 5 minutes to go that the gate onto Valley Grove that comes out by the away fans was closed post-match.
They may not of known until the day before this time around about police arrangements but still absolutely no announcements.
Even a tannoy announcement would've mitigated some of these issues, regardless of whether they were right or wrong.
Advisory board.2 -
Police are never present at that gate....which on this occasion and given the agg in that corner of the ground, seemed daft.
As well as nicking the Millwall idiot, it would be handy if the Charlton idiot (who threw the object over the gate) also got a tap on the shoulder.9 -
People have said it, but someone who works in this field has confirmed it can be locked, it would just take some organisation.bobmunro said:Guardy said:
When we laid my dad’s ashes to rest in the garden of remembrance that gate was locked. Why wasn’t it on Saturday?TootingRedArmy said:I'm assuming there wasn't a match on at the time. As others have said, that gate is an emergency exit and cannot be locked while there is a crowd in the stadium. The issue is that it should have been manned by the police not two stewards who could not be expected to stop the scum coming through.RIP your dad.
Just a shame no one thought that might be necessary when playing one of the scummiest clubs in the country.0 -
Just needed locking with a couple more stewards would have been fine, agree with the nicking’s also…Simonsen said:Police are never present at that gate....which on this occasion and given the agg in that corner of the ground, seemed daft.
As well as nicking the Millwall idiot, it would be handy if the Charlton idiot (who threw the object over the gate) also got a tap on the shoulder.0 -
The club sent countless posts on insta before this match hyping it as every notch went up from 20K to 23K, 10am Fan zone opening etc......Yet nothing on post match arrangements on website, insta, email etc as for an announcement where was it on the Big screen before, during, after the match....There was an PA announcement but i could hardly hear it in ES.....MartinCAFC said:
There was 100% an announcement at full time I could hear it leaving the front of the Covered Upper, we left pretty much at the full time whistle with the announcement maybe 2-3 mins after the game finished.clive said:Markg2004 said:In terms of communication from the club, sitting in the Upper West at a match a few seasons ago an announcement was made with 5 minutes to go that the gate onto Valley Grove that comes out by the away fans was closed post-match.
They may not of known until the day before this time around about police arrangements but still absolutely no announcements.
Even a tannoy announcement would've mitigated some of these issues, regardless of whether they were right or wrong.
At least one of the announcers is on this forum, perhaps he can confirm if & when there was an announcement or has he also taken the same vow of silence as the Communications team, Board of directors, Fans advocates &OhMyGodden said:
There was a tannoy announcement about itMarkg2004 said:In terms of communication from the club, sitting in the Upper West at a match a few seasons ago an announcement was made with 5 minutes to go that the gate onto Valley Grove that comes out by the away fans was closed post-match.
They may not of known until the day before this time around about police arrangements but still absolutely no announcements.
Even a tannoy announcement would've mitigated some of these issues, regardless of whether they were right or wrong.
Advisory board.
Club have had nearly 48hrs to address what happened on Saturday.....if it were a new player, kit, corporate event we would all hear about it multiple times....17 -
Just thinking about the cars still being allowed up and down Charlton Lane. That could so easily have turned into something like the Liverpool Premier League winners parade.
The driver of one of the cars that I saw turning into Coxmount Road was getting quite agitated. Could easily have turned into a nasty incident.3 -
To be fair he was throwing something they’d thrown at our fans back at them , obviously just walk away but in the heat of the moment it’s easier said than done if being goaded by these verminSimonsen said:Police are never present at that gate....which on this occasion and given the agg in that corner of the ground, seemed daft.
As well as nicking the Millwall idiot, it would be handy if the Charlton idiot (who threw the object over the gate) also got a tap on the shoulder.1
