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After the Millwall game - club reply to CAST p34, further CAST response p45
Comments
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There is also a Supporter Liaison Officer and a number of fans that form part of the Advisory Board, whose remit ‘ is to strengthen the relationship between the club and its fans and ensure the club provides a model of transparent and sustainable governance, whilst constantly striving to improve the matchday experience for all supporters.’TootingRedArmy said:Off_it said:
This took me about 30 seconds to knock up, and I'm certainly no "expert". And this was BEFORE the absolutely balls up on the day.Off_it said:
How about;bobmunro said:
How do you think they should have responded?Budington said:Classic nothing response from the trust.
"We are aware that supporters will feel, quite rightly, aggrieved and disgusted not only by the decision that has been taken, but also the manner and timing of the announcement and the lack of notice that has been given. The Trust has already expressed it's dismay at this decision and will be pressing the Club further in order to fully understand background and basis for the decision making process, as well as the relevant timelines. We will update our members as soon as we have further news on this important matter."
There are 8 CAST board members + 2 fan advisers they will know or surely heard what happened.... so why no statement from them, they are there to represent us the fans and challenge the club and police etc if they fall short, aren't they?8 -
It is not news to the club that voice announcements in the Covered End cannot be heard. Have they done anything about it?0
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We all thought with the new owners things like this would not happen, sadly the penny pinching yanks have not got a clue.
Also as I said before whoever is the clubs ground safety person should fall on their sword or be sacked for incompetence.2 -
Maybe next time they come to a game we should suggest they get out of their cars at the top of Floyd Road and walk to the West Stand via the level crossing - but they're not allowed to go faster than shuffling pace and every so often there will be hazards, like a van being driven straight at them with a flashing light on top, or numerous confused looking people trying to go in the opposite direction, also at shuffling pace.Hartleypete said:We all thought with the new owners things like this would not happen, sadly the penny pinching yanks have not got a clue.
Then, when they're inside the main gate we'll get 20 or 30 middle aged blokes with rabies to charge at them from out of nowhere, waving their arms about and swinging punches. Maybe the one with the glasses can hold his hands up and actually take a punch too.
Give them a proper Valley experience.8 -
And maybe sit them in front of the executive boxes that the club will happily sell to away fans seeking to wind up and intimidate the non-trouble home fans in front of them as a few extra £k is more important to the clubOff_it said:
Maybe next time they come to a game we should suggest they get out of their cars at the top of Floyd Road and walk to the West Stand via the level crossing - but they're not allowed to go faster than shuffling pace and every so often there will be hazards, like a van being driven straight at them with a flashing light on top, or numerous confused looking people trying to go in the opposite direction, also at shuffling pace.Hartleypete said:We all thought with the new owners things like this would not happen, sadly the penny pinching yanks have not got a clue.
Then, when they're inside the main gate we'll get 20 or 30 middle aged blokes with rabies to charge at them from out of nowhere, waving their arms about and swinging punches. Maybe the one with the glasses can hold his hands up and actually take a punch too.
Give them a proper Valley experience.13 -
Ps, I don’t really blame the owners for Saturday. I do though their executive team and relevant dept managers22
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The silence to date smacks of an abdication of responsibility.AFKABartram said:Ps, I don’t really blame the owners for Saturday. I do though their executive team and relevant dept managers
The lack of leadership is staggering.
I am half expecting a woolly statement at some point acknowledging fans concerns saying the club are reviewing all aspects.
What we need is somebody with balls and a bit of personality to challenge the Met in the strongest possible terms and demand a reversal of policy for future encounters and to apologise wholeheartedly for any failures by the club and a promise to pursue any assaults on fans through the courts7 -
I suspect that no club employee wants to be the person who reacts to events and communicate with the fans over the debacle on Saturday, because if they do they will be the responsible go to person in the future.
It is a ‘to me to you’ event internally where those of a cowardly disposition dare not use common sense and take control of the expected reaction.
I have seen Warrick, Carter and Rodwell wheeled out to tell us how much fans matter, but in a genuinely serious situation that put Charlton fans at risk no bugger says anything.
As for the Police reaction, that will be all about justifying themselves even if reality and common sense says otherwise.13 -
That sounds great - we could market it as "The Roger Alwyn Experience" maybe, with a couple of punches thrown in at no extra cost as part of the package?AFKABartram said:
And maybe sit them in front of the executive boxes that the club will happily sell to away fans seeking to wind up and intimidate the non-trouble home fans in front of them as a few extra £k is more important to the clubOff_it said:
Maybe next time they come to a game we should suggest they get out of their cars at the top of Floyd Road and walk to the West Stand via the level crossing - but they're not allowed to go faster than shuffling pace and every so often there will be hazards, like a van being driven straight at them with a flashing light on top, or numerous confused looking people trying to go in the opposite direction, also at shuffling pace.Hartleypete said:We all thought with the new owners things like this would not happen, sadly the penny pinching yanks have not got a clue.
Then, when they're inside the main gate we'll get 20 or 30 middle aged blokes with rabies to charge at them from out of nowhere, waving their arms about and swinging punches. Maybe the one with the glasses can hold his hands up and actually take a punch too.
Give them a proper Valley experience.1 - Sponsored links:
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Just want to draw out one point from the comment in the CAST letter that highlighted about what was the ‘steward in green’ doing as I think that’s unfair.He’s been the coordinating steward in the East for a few seasons now, he’s friendly, works bloody hard, always on at the stewards back to look interested when they aren’t etc. When a few years ago the club sold a box to Pompey’s lads who were similarly looking for a ruck he went way above and beyond putting himself in danger a steward really shouldn’t have to.I went past there before the point that video started. At that point there were Millwall shouting at the fence and trying to climb over it (there was no Charlton engagement at that stage, there’s only really a couple of hundred people that use that exit). I could see the steward in green there frantically trying to coordinate, maybe radioing through for help.I’m not really adding anything here. I just didn’t want something to go unchecked that insinuated he let down his colleagues etc based on a snapshot video that doesn’t cover the whole area / incident, as I suspect he once again probably went above and beyond.24
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You just know, should we get a London club in the FA cup, Greenwich police will roll this operation out again. They’ve learnt nothing.2
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Hopefully the club have done/are doing their own review and that can get noted from his account/others accounts/CCTV footage. One of the issues around the matchday "experience" is staff who are only there once in a blue moon so longstanding stewards are important and he sounds greatAFKABartram said:Just want to draw out one point from the comment in the CAST letter that highlighted about what was the ‘steward in green’ doing as I think that’s unfair.He’s been the coordinating steward in the East for a few seasons now, he’s friendly, works bloody hard, always on at the stewards back to look interested when they aren’t etc. When a few years ago the club sold a box to Pompey’s lads who were similarly looking for a ruck he went way above and beyond putting himself in danger a steward really shouldn’t have to.I went past there before the point that video started. At that point there were Millwall shouting at the fence and trying to climb over it (there was no Charlton engagement at that stage, there’s only really a couple of hundred people that use that exit). I could see the steward in green there frantically trying to coordinate, maybe radioing through for help.I’m not really adding anything here. I just didn’t want something to go unchecked that insinuated he let down his colleagues etc based on a snapshot video that doesn’t cover the whole area / incident, as I suspect he once again probably went above and beyond.2 -
https://x.com/jewishjonjonjon/status/1967865097763876951?t=LE2MpH9vrSevT-FB8aG2hw&s=19
One of the supporters elected members of the Advisory Board has answered on X1 -
I'm still pissed off that my 85 year old dad, who walks with a stick, had to march such a long way back to the station after the game. He's in better shape than most (for his age) but he was absolutely shattered by the time he made it round that detour. Elderly fans or those with mobility issues aren't going to provoke any trouble if they take the direct route so what's the point in treating them like that?18
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At least they're doing something to hold them back but why not just keep them in the ground? Seems more hassle to let them out and then hold them in the street.RedPanda said:For tomorrow:
Ahead of kick-off at Crystal Palace, millwallfc.co.uk releases the following information to ensure Lions supporters' visit goes as smoothly as possible...
Post-match, Millwall fans will exit the stadium and will be held temporarily outside the away turnstiles to allow home fans to disperse from the local area. Updates will be provided via a PA system on a regular basis to ensure regular communication is provided.
Are the police really so scared of what big bad Millwall might do inside the stadium?2 -
Don't bet against the scum attacking an 85 year old with a stickSantaClaus said:I'm still pissed off that my 85 year old dad, who walks with a stick, had to march such a long way back to the station after the game. He's in better shape than most (for his age) but he was absolutely shattered by the time he made it round that detour. Elderly fans or those with mobility issues aren't going to provoke any trouble if they take the direct route so what's the point in treating them like that?1 -
Its good to see CAST is raising all these points with the club.....the gate incident was on instagram it came up on my feed an hr ago but can't find it.... but i'm sure this footage is out there.castrust said:1 -
Its whether the individual affected, wants to prosecute, and the hassle of going to court , and bringing it all up again.Dave2l said:TootingRedArmy said:
punch landing on the fan reasoning with Millwall to not attack fans.......
What an absolute dick head and coward.
Enough evidence for the police to at least try and track him down.
My son got attacked at Charing Cross, coming back from Bristol City away, got clumped in the face, and heavily bruised, they were after his phone (didn't get it in the end) he is not a hostile person, just in the wrong place, at the wrong time.
The police contacted him afterwards, and he didn't want the hassle of going to court, or reliving it, just ruined a good day out.0 -
The Ransom Walk shortcut was specifically in mind for people like your dad, unfortunately on the day it wasn't communicated properly and those in charge at the alley were acting the prick anywaySantaClaus said:I'm still pissed off that my 85 year old dad, who walks with a stick, had to march such a long way back to the station after the game. He's in better shape than most (for his age) but he was absolutely shattered by the time he made it round that detour. Elderly fans or those with mobility issues aren't going to provoke any trouble if they take the direct route so what's the point in treating them like that?2 - Sponsored links:
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They did the same with us at Selhurst in the pastChris_from_Sidcup said:
At least they're doing something to hold them back but why not just keep them in the ground? Seems more hassle to let them out and then hold them in the street.RedPanda said:For tomorrow:
Ahead of kick-off at Crystal Palace, millwallfc.co.uk releases the following information to ensure Lions supporters' visit goes as smoothly as possible...
Post-match, Millwall fans will exit the stadium and will be held temporarily outside the away turnstiles to allow home fans to disperse from the local area. Updates will be provided via a PA system on a regular basis to ensure regular communication is provided.
Are the police really so scared of what big bad Millwall might do inside the stadium?1 -
Still no apology on official site.I certainly heard no announcement at back of Covered on the post match exit strategy but only knew it from the outrage on here …0
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The "C" word permanently removed from the Club's vocabulary ?Valleysarr said:Still no apology on official site.I certainly heard no announcement at back of Covered on the post match exit strategy but only knew it from the outrage on here …0 -
So this rather pleasant and affable Tom Rubashow man, will he be doing any communicating about this?
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Very good. Assertive but staying within the remit of a Supporters' Trust. The Club needs to answer those points in detail, and if it in turn believes that it was unable to do things it wanted to do because the police overruled them, it needs to clearly state that.castrust said:0 -
You might like to edit your post and replace the word “scared” with the word “concerned.”Chris_from_Sidcup said:
At least they're doing something to hold them back but why not just keep them in the ground? Seems more hassle to let them out and then hold them in the street.RedPanda said:For tomorrow:
Ahead of kick-off at Crystal Palace, millwallfc.co.uk releases the following information to ensure Lions supporters' visit goes as smoothly as possible...
Post-match, Millwall fans will exit the stadium and will be held temporarily outside the away turnstiles to allow home fans to disperse from the local area. Updates will be provided via a PA system on a regular basis to ensure regular communication is provided.
Are the police really so scared of what big bad Millwall might do inside the stadium?1 -
I wonder if our dear Belgian owner of the stadium has anything to say about the matter……only joking of course.0
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It is a dig. No apologies from me for that. And I am "digging" that you seek to present a 'reasonable' point of view on behalf of the police which is based on arguments already debunked here, thus potentially reducing the support from fans for those in the fanbase prepared to challenge "the authorities".valleynick66 said:
Maybe you are not reading what I wrote and instead assuming I’m saying something else?PragueAddick said:
Well, we all knew that would be the case but it's excellent to have that there in writing.RedPanda said:For tomorrow:
Ahead of kick-off at Crystal Palace, millwallfc.co.uk releases the following information to ensure Lions supporters' visit goes as smoothly as possible...
Post-match, Millwall fans will exit the stadium and will be held temporarily outside the away turnstiles to allow home fans to disperse from the local area. Updates will be provided via a PA system on a regular basis to ensure regular communication is provided.
Perhaps @valleynick66 would like to explain if he still thinks "... with hindsight and having the opportunity to reflect, the decision by the police to not hold back Millwall could still be argued by the police to be reasonable.There is some logic in trying to remove 3k quickly given the perceived risk of adverse reaction by them if kept waiting."
To repeat I’m observing the police can argue their logic has some merit. That is all.I’m not saying it’s right or that I support it but simply saying they can defend it. What they and the club can’t defend is its execution/implementation.The comparison to Palace isn’t particularly relevant particularly as they likely get held back at many grounds.The police logic may be the greater ‘localness’ to us and our relative lack of hooliganism means a direct comparison is not the whole story. That’s my speculation of how they could justify it.I don’t really understand your dig. I’m forecasting the outcome of any review the club and police may make.
You wrote:
"There is some logic in trying to remove 3k quickly given the perceived risk of adverse reaction by them if kept waiting." That risk perception is only valid if there was a record of Millwall fans routinely smashing up other grounds simply after being held back. Nobody has presented such a record, least of all you, the general perception is that they are routinely held, as are fans of Leeds, Pompey, anyone else with any track record of chippiness. They are being held back at Palace tomorrow, albeit outside the stand.
You wrote:
I’m assuming in the absence of any reports to the contrary there were no noteworthy skirmishes between the 2 sets of fans excepting the Sam Bartram gate incursion. On that basis I’d guess the police can claim it was the right call. If Millwall were held back as is normal police practice there would not be any noteworthy skirmishes either, because it takes two to have a skirmish, all the Charlton fans would have gone. That is why holding back away fans is normal practice.
The worst thing for me about your post is that you suggest there is "safety merit" in their inane plan. You ignore the photos posted here showing the fans exiting the West, and the numerous reports of the frightening chaos in Harvey Gardens, and the professional assessment of these situations from a Lifer with relevant professional experience (@Fortune 82nd Minute). There is no "safety merit" in a plan which introduces potentially life-threatening crushes which would not happen on normal matchdays and therefore have not been planned for.8
