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Sheffield Wednesday - Into Administration (p44)

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  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,772
    edited September 30
    With Leicester, in theory they could slip away and a points deduction could be meaningless. It makes sense that the deduction takes place now whilst it is not. Not sure with Sheffield Wednesday. They haven't cheated, it is just the owner doesn't want to pay for them. Of course this is not sustainable but if the owner doesn't care if they get a points deduction or not, what does it acheive? I suppose it makes the club less attractive to buyers which might bother him. Maybe the EFL should give him a deadline for when wages should be paid and a threat that if they are not paid by then or again there will be a 6 point deduction. It is a difficult one.
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 36,097
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    With Leicester, in theory they could slip away and a points deduction could be meaningless. It makes sense that the deduction takes place now whilst it is not. Not sure with Sheffield Wednesday. They haven't cheated, it is just the owner doesn't want to pay for them. Of course this is not sustainable but if the owner doesn't care if they get a points deduction or not, what does it acheive? I suppose it makes the club less attractive to buyers which might bother him. Maybe the EFL should give him a deadline for when wages should be paid and a threat that if they are not paid by then or again there will be a 6 point deduction. It is a difficult one.
    The general consensus is that Chansiri has so much debt tied to the club that he can't afford to sell them in their current state because it wouldn't cover anything close to what he owes.

    The problem is if they drop into league one, then the value of the club drops even more so there's even less chance he will sell. I'm not sure how they get out of this mess.
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,772
    If he can't afford to sell them, they are surely in a death spiral. And how is the problem going to improve in time? I feel for them. 
  • CaptainRobbo
    CaptainRobbo Posts: 699
    If Bannan picks up a long term injury?
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 36,097
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    If he can't afford to sell them, they are surely in a death spiral. And how is the problem going to improve in time? I feel for them. 
    Unless he decides to cut his losses and write off tens of millions, he will just continue to run the club as cheaply as possible. 

    Aside from the club value plummeting there is also the issue that if they drop into league one they will lose out on the 9m extra EFL payments you get compared to league one.

    Doesn't really seem like he's thought this through.
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,772
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    If he can't afford to sell them, they are surely in a death spiral. And how is the problem going to improve in time? I feel for them. 
    Unless he decides to cut his losses and write off tens of millions, he will just continue to run the club as cheaply as possible. 

    Aside from the club value plummeting there is also the issue that if they drop into league one they will lose out on the 9m extra EFL payments you get compared to league one.

    Doesn't really seem like he's thought this through.
    But as cheaply as possible has to include paying your staff. Surely he is going to get deeper and deeper in dept. 
  • fenaddick
    fenaddick Posts: 11,416
    The EFL will always be toothless because it is owned by it's members. Owners aren't going to vote in rules that punish themselves if they lose interest
  • Swindon_Addick
    Swindon_Addick Posts: 1,665
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    With Leicester, in theory they could slip away and a points deduction could be meaningless. It makes sense that the deduction takes place now whilst it is not. Not sure with Sheffield Wednesday. They haven't cheated, it is just the owner doesn't want to pay for them. Of course this is not sustainable but if the owner doesn't care if they get a points deduction or not, what does it acheive? I suppose it makes the club less attractive to buyers which might bother him. Maybe the EFL should give him a deadline for when wages should be paid and a threat that if they are not paid by then or again there will be a 6 point deduction. It is a difficult one.
    For me, this is where there's a big difference between not paying staff on time, but paying eventually, and being late with transfer payments to other clubs. Late payments to other football clubs I think starts to cross the line between being guilty of no more than chaotic organisation and gets into what you could call cheating.
  • Rothko
    Rothko Posts: 18,819
    Swindon_Addick said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    With Leicester, in theory they could slip away and a points deduction could be meaningless. It makes sense that the deduction takes place now whilst it is not. Not sure with Sheffield Wednesday. They haven't cheated, it is just the owner doesn't want to pay for them. Of course this is not sustainable but if the owner doesn't care if they get a points deduction or not, what does it acheive? I suppose it makes the club less attractive to buyers which might bother him. Maybe the EFL should give him a deadline for when wages should be paid and a threat that if they are not paid by then or again there will be a 6 point deduction. It is a difficult one.
    For me, this is where there's a big difference between not paying staff on time, but paying eventually, and being late with transfer payments to other clubs. Late payments to other football clubs I think starts to cross the line between being guilty of no more than chaotic organisation and gets into what you could call cheating.
    From what I read, the Premier League are working with the EFL on how to deal with Leicester so they don't dodge punishment via promotion 
  • CaptainRobbo
    CaptainRobbo Posts: 699
    Possible 15 points deduction 

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  • TelMc32
    TelMc32 Posts: 9,066
    Rothko said:
    Swindon_Addick said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    With Leicester, in theory they could slip away and a points deduction could be meaningless. It makes sense that the deduction takes place now whilst it is not. Not sure with Sheffield Wednesday. They haven't cheated, it is just the owner doesn't want to pay for them. Of course this is not sustainable but if the owner doesn't care if they get a points deduction or not, what does it acheive? I suppose it makes the club less attractive to buyers which might bother him. Maybe the EFL should give him a deadline for when wages should be paid and a threat that if they are not paid by then or again there will be a 6 point deduction. It is a difficult one.
    For me, this is where there's a big difference between not paying staff on time, but paying eventually, and being late with transfer payments to other clubs. Late payments to other football clubs I think starts to cross the line between being guilty of no more than chaotic organisation and gets into what you could call cheating.
    From what I read, the Premier League are working with the EFL on how to deal with Leicester so they don't dodge punishment via promotion 
    Sort of. Leicester “escaped” EFL’s punishment previously because they got promoted and therefore out of their jurisdiction. One decent outcome of that is that the PL and EFL decided to close that loophole and work together, which is apparently why the PL have been handling what was a breach of EFL rules. 

    There really isn’t an excuse though that judgement shouldn’t have been passed by now. 
  • cabbles
    cabbles Posts: 15,261
    CaptainRobbo said:
    Possible 15 points deduction 
    That many would almost certainly mean they fill one of the three relegation spots.  Be an absolute miracle if they stayed up with that sort of punishment 
  • cabbles
    cabbles Posts: 15,261
    On that, I can’t recall exactly, but wasn’t it Sheff Weds that should’ve been pulled up for financial irregularities the season we went down in 19/20?  I might be getting it confused with another club, but I swore someone got a points deduction rolled over to the next season or suspended that may well have meant we stayed up.  
  • CaptainRobbo
    CaptainRobbo Posts: 699
    cabbles said:
    On that, I can’t recall exactly, but wasn’t it Sheff Weds that should’ve been pulled up for financial irregularities the season we went down in 19/20?  I might be getting it confused with another club, but I swore someone got a points deduction rolled over to the next season or suspended that may well have meant we stayed up.  
    Correct 
  • ForestHillAddick
    ForestHillAddick Posts: 101
    cabbles said:
    CaptainRobbo said:
    Possible 15 points deduction 
    That many would almost certainly mean they fill one of the three relegation spots.  Be an absolute miracle if they stayed up with that sort of punishment 
    Think they'd still be fine to stay up, were that to be applied now they'd be on -2 points which is only 8 away from Oxford in 21st. So they'd be able to make that up across the remaining 37 games.

    Although some of their better players would probably start looking for moves that could get them playing In the prem next season so the rebuild would be more painful.
  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,072
    CaptainRobbo said:
    Possible 15 points deduction 
    Ugh, on the one hand it means they are likely to go down so one less relegation spot for us to worry about (and avoiding relegation is still my biggest aim for the season). On the other hand 15 points is a really brutal penalty, and the people that suffer won’t really be the one man that’s behind all these issues. On the third hand it’s Wednesday, so fuck ‘em. 
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 36,097
    TelMc32 said:
    Rothko said:
    Swindon_Addick said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    With Leicester, in theory they could slip away and a points deduction could be meaningless. It makes sense that the deduction takes place now whilst it is not. Not sure with Sheffield Wednesday. They haven't cheated, it is just the owner doesn't want to pay for them. Of course this is not sustainable but if the owner doesn't care if they get a points deduction or not, what does it acheive? I suppose it makes the club less attractive to buyers which might bother him. Maybe the EFL should give him a deadline for when wages should be paid and a threat that if they are not paid by then or again there will be a 6 point deduction. It is a difficult one.
    For me, this is where there's a big difference between not paying staff on time, but paying eventually, and being late with transfer payments to other clubs. Late payments to other football clubs I think starts to cross the line between being guilty of no more than chaotic organisation and gets into what you could call cheating.
    From what I read, the Premier League are working with the EFL on how to deal with Leicester so they don't dodge punishment via promotion 
    Sort of. Leicester “escaped” EFL’s punishment previously because they got promoted and therefore out of their jurisdiction. One decent outcome of that is that the PL and EFL decided to close that loophole and work together, which is apparently why the PL have been handling what was a breach of EFL rules. 

    There really isn’t an excuse though that judgement shouldn’t have been passed by now. 
    The whole thing is a farce. They breached EFL rules and the logical thing to do once it became fairly obvious they'd be relegated would've been to issue them with a punishment that would be applied at the start of this season.

    But no, that is just too simple.
  • CAFC_boi
    CAFC_boi Posts: 282
    ForestHillAddick said:
    cabbles said:
    CaptainRobbo said:
    Possible 15 points deduction 
    That many would almost certainly mean they fill one of the three relegation spots.  Be an absolute miracle if they stayed up with that sort of punishment 
    Think they'd still be fine to stay up, were that to be applied now they'd be on -2 points which is only 8 away from Oxford in 21st. So they'd be able to make that up across the remaining 37 games.

    Although some of their better players would probably start looking for moves that could get them playing In the prem next season so the rebuild would be more painful.
    They would be on -9 not -2. They have 6 points currently. 
  • stoneroses19
    stoneroses19 Posts: 7,241
    ForestHillAddick said:
    cabbles said:
    CaptainRobbo said:
    Possible 15 points deduction 
    That many would almost certainly mean they fill one of the three relegation spots.  Be an absolute miracle if they stayed up with that sort of punishment 
    Think they'd still be fine to stay up, were that to be applied now they'd be on -2 points which is only 8 away from Oxford in 21st. So they'd be able to make that up across the remaining 37 games.

    Although some of their better players would probably start looking for moves that could get them playing In the prem next season so the rebuild would be more painful.
    Personally, I can't see Wednesday being 15 points clear of 22nd place by end of season. So feel a 15 point deduction would likely relegate them. 
  • ForestHillAddick
    ForestHillAddick Posts: 101
    CAFC_boi said:
    ForestHillAddick said:
    cabbles said:
    CaptainRobbo said:
    Possible 15 points deduction 
    That many would almost certainly mean they fill one of the three relegation spots.  Be an absolute miracle if they stayed up with that sort of punishment 
    Think they'd still be fine to stay up, were that to be applied now they'd be on -2 points which is only 8 away from Oxford in 21st. So they'd be able to make that up across the remaining 37 games.

    Although some of their better players would probably start looking for moves that could get them playing In the prem next season so the rebuild would be more painful.
    They would be on -9 not -2. They have 6 points currently. 
    Whoops, the 15 points comment followed a comment about Leicester so thought it was referring to them.

    Yeah Wednesday would definitely be down with a 15 point deduction.

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  • Six-a-bag-of-nuts
    Six-a-bag-of-nuts Posts: 8,130
    Why are people discussing a 15 deduction like it's a fact?
  • CaptainRobbo
    CaptainRobbo Posts: 699
    edited October 2
    Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
    Why are people discussing a 15 deduction like it's a fact?
    Because it was in the Sun so it must be true.
    Also why I said possible deduction.
    Should we start a Sheff Wednesday rumour thread?
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,964
    With their tiny squad, it would have been a miracle if Wednesday stayed up anyway. 
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 36,097
    killerandflash said:
    With their tiny squad, it would have been a miracle if Wednesday stayed up anyway. 
    Unbeaten in 3 though and i think they're definitely doing better than most people expected.

    That said, i'd be quite surprised if they don't lose all of their next 3 games.
  • fenaddick
    fenaddick Posts: 11,416
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    killerandflash said:
    With their tiny squad, it would have been a miracle if Wednesday stayed up anyway. 
    Unbeaten in 3 though and i think they're definitely doing better than most people expected.

    That said, i'd be quite surprised if they don't lose all of their next 3 games.
    Always easier earlier in the season in these situations. They can get motivation from being up against it but aren’t struggling with injuries yet and haven’t had a bit of bad form for heads to go down. Siege mentality can only get you so far 
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,964
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    killerandflash said:
    With their tiny squad, it would have been a miracle if Wednesday stayed up anyway. 
    Unbeaten in 3 though and i think they're definitely doing better than most people expected.

    That said, i'd be quite surprised if they don't lose all of their next 3 games.
    At some point Bannon will pick up an injury. They're doing brilliantly,  but 46 games is a LONG and physically challenging season. 
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,190
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    killerandflash said:
    With their tiny squad, it would have been a miracle if Wednesday stayed up anyway. 
    Unbeaten in 3 though and i think they're definitely doing better than most people expected.

    That said, i'd be quite surprised if they don't lose all of their next 3 games.

    It'll take the wind out of our sails should they beat us next week.
  • Braziliance
    Braziliance Posts: 8,397
    Must win game for us vs the Massives. Anything less will be a disaster down the line potentially.
  • Todds_right_hook
    Todds_right_hook Posts: 10,892
    CaptainRobbo said:
    Possible 15 points deduction 
    Wednesday or Leicester
  • CaptainRobbo
    CaptainRobbo Posts: 699
    Todds_right_hook said:
    CaptainRobbo said:
    Possible 15 points deduction 
    Wednesday or Leicester


    Wednesday 

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