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After the Millwall game - club reply to CAST p34, further CAST response p45

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Comments

  • CaptainRobbo
    CaptainRobbo Posts: 731
    MartinCAFC said:
    doronron said:
    I've only heard this second hand but Millwall were locked out of South Bermondsey Station while Middlesbrough fans were escorted to the trains, so we might not be held back this year .
    Unlikely but if indeed true I would say that’s more likely to do with logistics in that Boro fans have to get back to the North East and holding them back would have just caused them unnecessary hassle and potentially missing trains pre-booked and then causing a high demand for trains back home.
    When did the OB start using common sense? đź‘€
  • Off_it
    Off_it Posts: 28,928
    MartinCAFC said:
    doronron said:
    I've only heard this second hand but Millwall were locked out of South Bermondsey Station while Middlesbrough fans were escorted to the trains, so we might not be held back this year .
    Unlikely but if indeed true I would say that’s more likely to do with logistics in that Boro fans have to get back to the North East and holding them back would have just caused them unnecessary hassle and potentially missing trains pre-booked and then causing a high demand for trains back home.
    I would say with a high degree of certainty that stuff like that would not enter the Old Bills decision making process. No way, Pedro.
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,127
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    Money before safety of fans.

    Well done Charlton.
    Or perhaps they wrongly underestimated the c*** levels within the Millwall fan base, not everything the club does has to have a sinister side.
  • JohnnyH2
    JohnnyH2 Posts: 5,348
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    Money before safety of fans.

    Well done Charlton.
    Or perhaps they wrongly underestimated the c*** levels within the Millwall fan base, not everything the club does has to have a sinister side.
    If that is the case they underestimated the potential for trouble from that lot then that is sheer foolish
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,757
    cafc999 said:
    "1. The police and club to consult with and share major decisions on crowd control / management with all relevant parties, including CAST."

    Surely by being part of the safety advisory group this reccomendation would have been met?
    It’s a strategic body that plans and reviews. It’s ultimately advisory to the council. It’s not the usual forum for operational matchday decisions.
  • cafc999
    cafc999 Posts: 4,972
    Airman Brown said:
    cafc999 said:
    "1. The police and club to consult with and share major decisions on crowd control / management with all relevant parties, including CAST."

    Surely by being part of the safety advisory group this reccomendation would have been met?
    It’s a strategic body that plans and reviews. It’s ultimately advisory to the council. It’s not the usual forum for operational matchday decisions.
    I get that, but I'm sure any that major decisions regarding keeping us back / rerouting would have been brought up during this meeting? If it was, then surely all parties could have put out a message?
  • boggzy
    boggzy Posts: 3,600
    I see that wrong'un freak 'Moody' has reappeared on the Millwall forum with a full-scale rebuttal of @PragueAddick's letter to Len Duvall. Paragraph by paragraph (and they call *us* anoraks!)

    He obviously couldn't help himself, it's like our club live rent-free inside his head despite our inability to beat them.

    Either a CAFC fan had it off with his missus, or 'Moody' is a pseudonym for that wife-beating spanner 'journalist'...
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,185
    boggzy said:
    I see that wrong'un freak 'Moody' has reappeared on the Millwall forum with a full-scale rebuttal of @PragueAddick's letter to Len Duvall. Paragraph by paragraph (and they call *us* anoraks!)

    He obviously couldn't help himself, it's like our club live rent-free inside his head despite our inability to beat them.

    Either a CAFC fan had it off with his missus, or 'Moody' is a pseudonym for that wife-beating spanner 'journalist'...
    Right...I suppose I shouldn't let that go unanswered. Which forum is it? and could you, or anyone else, summarise what's the previous from this bloke?
  • Baldybonce
    Baldybonce Posts: 9,679
    Don't do it Prague 'eeeess not wurf it.
  • stonemuse
    stonemuse Posts: 34,076
    Baldybonce said:
    Don't do it Prague 'eeeess not wurf it.
    Yup ignore it. Waste of energy and time. 

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  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,185
    OK.. dont know anything about the bloke, wondered if he had anything half-way rational to say…
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,907
    PragueAddick said:
    OK.. dont know anything about the bloke, wondered if he had anything half-way rational to say…

    He's a spanner and consequently that is unlikely.
  • boggzy
    boggzy Posts: 3,600
    edited November 1
    PragueAddick said:
    boggzy said:
    I see that wrong'un freak 'Moody' has reappeared on the Millwall forum with a full-scale rebuttal of @PragueAddick's letter to Len Duvall. Paragraph by paragraph (and they call *us* anoraks!)

    He obviously couldn't help himself, it's like our club live rent-free inside his head despite our inability to beat them.

    Either a CAFC fan had it off with his missus, or 'Moody' is a pseudonym for that wife-beating spanner 'journalist'...
    Right...I suppose I shouldn't let that go unanswered. Which forum is it? and could you, or anyone else, summarise what's the previous from this bloke?
    Just Google:

    Quotes from the Charlton no life forum


    It's on page 250 of their 251-page long thread about us (even though they obviously don't care)

    Apologies admin if this is against the rules, please delete if so.
  • TootingRedArmy
    TootingRedArmy Posts: 466

    before the game - 2 stewards on Gate 21 and 2 stewards in JS stand 

    after the game  11 stewards & man in grey suit, odd that no stewards on the other side of Gate 21 which i believe is where the opposition can get to the bolt to open the unlocked Gate 21? 

    I've had a season ticket in East Stand since it opened and used Bartrum gate and never seen Charlton fans wanting to get into JS stand? Its good that club have steward presence after Millwall broke through but feels now OTT having the posse of stewards just in our side, why not have them in both sides as this is where the trouble will come from? Whats the logic? 
  • Dippenhall
    Dippenhall Posts: 3,923
    Might be worth quoting back to the Met the Govt's understanding of the principles of “Policing by Consent” https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/policing-by-consent/definition-of-policing-by-consent
  • TootingRedArmy
    TootingRedArmy Posts: 466
    Where are CAST with the whole Millwall situ and consulting with the club and MET Police? 

  • fenaddick
    fenaddick Posts: 11,636
    @TootingRedArmy the reason the stewards are on our side of the fence is it puts them at less harm. Imagine there is trouble, all the stewards need to do is turn around and hold the gate shut until back up arrives. If they stand on the away side of the fence then it’s easier for 2/3 people to gang up on each steward. 
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,185
    Dippenhall said:
    Might be worth quoting back to the Met the Govt's understanding of the principles of “Policing by Consent” https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/policing-by-consent/definition-of-policing-by-consent
    Brilliant. Thanks for posting, @Dippenhall.

    Definitely something worth using, @Weegie Addick. 
  • TootingRedArmy
    TootingRedArmy Posts: 466
    edited November 2
    fenaddick said:
    @TootingRedArmy the reason the stewards are on our side of the fence is it puts them at less harm. Imagine there is trouble, all the stewards need to do is turn around and hold the gate shut until back up arrives. If they stand on the away side of the fence then it’s easier for 2/3 people to gang up on each steward. 
    Isn't the point of employing stewards?.... surely to stop away fans trying to attack Charlton fans? If they can't deal with away fans on the other side of the fence then they shouldn't be working as a steward or club need to pay for police to well "police" away fans? 
    We have stewards in Jimmy seed, why can't the bod in charge split the 11 who were on our side of Gate 21 and put half a dozen on the other side?
  • fenaddick
    fenaddick Posts: 11,636
    edited November 2
    TootingRedArmy said:
    fenaddick said:
    @TootingRedArmy the reason the stewards are on our side of the fence is it puts them at less harm. Imagine there is trouble, all the stewards need to do is turn around and hold the gate shut until back up arrives. If they stand on the away side of the fence then it’s easier for 2/3 people to gang up on each steward.
    Isn't the point of employing stewards?.... surely to stop away fans trying to attack Charlton fans? If they can't deal with away fans on the other side of the fence then they shouldn't be working as a steward or club need to pay for police to well "police" away fans? 
    We have stewards in Jimmy seed, why can't the bod in charge split the 11 who were on our side of Gate 21 and put half a dozen on the other side?
    You're confusing stewards with bouncers etc. Anyway, them holding the gate shut is stopping them attacking Charton fans

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  • TootingRedArmy
    TootingRedArmy Posts: 466
    edited November 2
    Stewards go into crowd and remove troublemakers, I don't know what all different coloured high viz jackets mean for what stewards can do on matchdays? I presume some have the remit to remove fans so what is the difference between steward and a bouncer? I presume some of the stewards have similar training ....anyway the club should pay for some police in the away section whos job it is to "police' fans 
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,079
    edited November 2
    TootingRedArmy said:


    I've had a season ticket in East Stand since it opened and used Bartrum gate and never seen Charlton fans wanting to get into JS stand? Its good that club have steward presence after Millwall broke through but feels now OTT having the posse of stewards just in our side, why not have them in both sides as this is where the trouble will come from? Whats the logic? 
    Apart from the Millwall game, when 2 lads from the home area started the trouble.
    The most likely reason for the posse of stewards is your never ending posts on this thread day & night  :)

    NB If you were complaining there weren't enough stewards and now you're complaining there are too many stewards, maybe e mail Charlton and let them know the exact number that they should have?  :)

    It's looking like this thread will still be on page 1 the next time we play Millwall  :)
  • TootingRedArmy
    TootingRedArmy Posts: 466
    edited November 2
    Covered End said:
    TootingRedArmy said:


    I've had a season ticket in East Stand since it opened and used Bartrum gate and never seen Charlton fans wanting to get into JS stand? Its good that club have steward presence after Millwall broke through but feels now OTT having the posse of stewards just in our side, why not have them in both sides as this is where the trouble will come from? Whats the logic? 
    Apart from the Millwall game, when 2 lads from the home area started the trouble.
    The most likely reason for the posse of stewards is your never ending posts on this thread day & night  :)

    NB If you were complaining there weren't enough stewards and now you're complaining there are too many stewards, maybe e mail Charlton and let them know the exact number that they should have?  :)

    It's looking like this thread will still be on page 1 the next time we play Millwall  :)
    * I saw whole incident at Gate 21 - Millwall were responsible for the trouble, yes there were a couple of Charlton fans who gave it large in the home end, but didn't start the trouble, I saw the innocent Charlton fan assaulted 

    * Re-read I said why weren't stewards on both sides of Gate 21 & questioning lack of police in JS stand. I have emailed the club twice & filled out the survey guess.... guess what no response

    * As individuals are voices are ignored... it needs CAST to continue to question stewarding and policing of high risk (Millwall) matches and request a meeting with MET police to challenge what happened and their response after.....extensively covered in this thread........

  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,079
    TootingRedArmy said:

    2 stewards & a supervisor with no radio?
    You've never seen fans from the home area trying to get into the away end.
    Well, you yourself posted this.
    They may not be trying to get in, but they clearly were provoking and threw stuff in there, even if if they were "returning" it.
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,215
    edited November 2
    TootingRedArmy said:
    Covered End said:
    TootingRedArmy said:


    I've had a season ticket in East Stand since it opened and used Bartrum gate and never seen Charlton fans wanting to get into JS stand? Its good that club have steward presence after Millwall broke through but feels now OTT having the posse of stewards just in our side, why not have them in both sides as this is where the trouble will come from? Whats the logic? 
    Apart from the Millwall game, when 2 lads from the home area started the trouble.
    The most likely reason for the posse of stewards is your never ending posts on this thread day & night  :)

    NB If you were complaining there weren't enough stewards and now you're complaining there are too many stewards, maybe e mail Charlton and let them know the exact number that they should have?  :)

    It's looking like this thread will still be on page 1 the next time we play Millwall  :)
    * I saw whole incident at Gate 21 - Millwall were responsible for the trouble, yes there were a couple of Charlton fans who gave it large in the home end, but didn't start the trouble, I saw the innocent Charlton fan assaulted 

    * Re-read I said why weren't stewards on both sides of Gate 21 & questioning lack of police in JS stand. I have emailed the club twice & filled out the survey guess.... guess what no response

    * As individuals are voices are ignored... it needs CAST to continue to question stewarding and policing of high risk (Millwall) matches and request a meeting with MET police to challenge what happened and their response after.....extensively covered in this thread........


    I am right behind you with your frustrations, but please be aware that when we play the filth next season it is almost a case iron certainty that the 'security' arrangements will be the same.
  • Major
    Major Posts: 1,032
    Covered End said:
    TootingRedArmy said:


    I've had a season ticket in East Stand since it opened and used Bartrum gate and never seen Charlton fans wanting to get into JS stand? Its good that club have steward presence after Millwall broke through but feels now OTT having the posse of stewards just in our side, why not have them in both sides as this is where the trouble will come from? Whats the logic? 
    Apart from the Millwall game, when 2 lads from the home area started the trouble.
    The most likely reason for the posse of stewards is your never ending posts on this thread day & night  :)

    NB If you were complaining there weren't enough stewards and now you're complaining there are too many stewards, maybe e mail Charlton and let them know the exact number that they should have?  :)

    It's looking like this thread will still be on page 1 the next time we play Millwall  :)
    'This is the thread that never ends'..... Talk about a dog with a bone.
  • TootingRedArmy
    TootingRedArmy Posts: 466
    Covered End said:
    TootingRedArmy said:

    2 stewards & a supervisor with no radio?
    You've never seen fans from the home area trying to get into the away end.
    Well, you yourself posted this.
    They may not be trying to get in, but they clearly were provoking and threw stuff in there, even if if they were "returning" it.

    It’s important that we keep asking questions about what happened and continue seeking answers, not to assign blame but to make sure lessons are learned and fans are safer in the future. As mentioned earlier, only a small number of Charlton supporters reacted, and the violence clearly began when Millwall fans opened Gate 21. I personally saw a Charlton fan being attacked by several Millwall supporters kicked and punch on the ground, and another trying to reason with them before being punched (as shown in photos earlier in this thread.)

    The reason this discussion continues is because many fans are frustrated by the lack of communication from the club before, during, and after the match as well as by the response from both the club and the police. Charlton fans have every right to question what went wrong and to press for better planning and coordination next time. We shouldn’t simply accept that the same issues might happen again, with Millwall fans given priority while 20,000 Charlton fans are left inconvenienced and at risk. Open discussion and accountability are essential if we want a safer, fairer matchday experience for everyone. Charlton are a fanbase with a rich history of wanting best for club and supporters from the Back to The Valley to Roland protests etc. Addicks questioning the club to create a better match day experience is healthy and club one would hope would look to improve..........

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