After the Millwall game - club reply to CAST p34, further CAST response p45

An update on the strands of follow-up:

https://www.castrust.org/2025/11/millwall-policing-issues/

castrust said:

An update on the strands of follow-up:

https://www.castrust.org/2025/11/millwall-policing-issues/

https://x.com/elliereeves/status/1978752050889449603?t=0H0ORALqtExcp8XSaXJJCw&s=19

Clive Efford not responding, found time for the above event.

Thanks to the Trust for their ongoing work

aliwibble said:

Thanks for the update. Quick question,  is "...it was not policy to hold fans in the stadium because it caused more safety concerns than it solved" specifically regarding Charlton v Millwall, any games at the Valley, or the Met's general policing principles for football matches? And does that mean our fans won't be getting held back at the New Den in January?

Utter bollox from that policeman - it’s only been policy for the last 50 years I’ve been going - how do these people get into positions to make these decisions and where is the challenge back to him ?? Nowhere - waste of time both those answering and those asking the questions - Prague aside 

DOUCHER said:

Did Nigel point out anywhere in that exchange how the rest of the country hold back the away fans, not home - if he did he hasn’t written in the notes of the meeting. That is THE POINT and THE single point of questioning - nowhere else , even for proper high risk games does this happen the other way round  - utter waste of time cast im afraid - Prague is our only hope 

All day long.

DOUCHER said:

Did Nigel point out anywhere in that exchange how the rest of the country hold back the away fans, not home - if he did he hasn’t written in the notes of the meeting. That is THE POINT and THE single point of questioning - nowhere else , even for proper high risk games does this happen the other way round  - utter waste of time cast im afraid - Prague is our only hope 

Oof I am not sure I can deliver on that 😱 BUT, we already have Sir Mark Rowley on camera and off guard, saying that he has always thought it is the away fans who are held back. The problem is though that they can weasel out of it by saying “we didnt hold the Charlton fans back, we just diverted them”. 

I think it’s a brilliant idea @PragueAddick 😉

There’s a walkway direct from the station down into the fenced off area behind the away stand. In the past, we’ve been held in that fenced area until they’ve allowed home fans to disperse, using the same station. It would be very simple to make it away only after the game, closing off the public access and only opening the walkway from the away end.  They can then do to home fans what they did to us and divert them…in their case though, they can even be diverted to alternative stations (New Cross/Gate), which are on different lines. 

The real issue is that club just need to pay for MET Police to 'police" Millwall fans in the Jimmy Seed
Interesting seeing trouble with the german fans at the Arsenal v Bayern game.
Arsenal looked like they had a significant amount of MET in the ground who were get stuck
into Bayern fansm with Arsenal stewards in orange alongside. 
Club need to stop taking cheap option, you can see why a young student steward is minimum wage V Met police full shift pay, but this 
shouldn't be about ££££ but about making stadium and streets safe for Charlton fans. To make it easier to "police" just give min EFL allocation 2000 seats to Millwall, Pay for the Met police & lock Milwall in for 30-45mins
.......this will allow Charlton fans to leave as per every other match, up Floyd rd to Charlton station. 

sammy391 said:

JohnnyH2 said:

castrust said:

An update on the strands of follow-up:

https://www.castrust.org/2025/11/millwall-policing-issues/

https://x.com/elliereeves/status/1978752050889449603?t=0H0ORALqtExcp8XSaXJJCw&s=19

Clive Efford not responding, found time for the above event.

Thanks to the Trust for their ongoing work

"Right across South London"... 
Considering they only tend to stick to Croydon but dont tend to touch Bromley/Bexley, it's bizarre that Efford is there as MP for Eltham and Chislehurst!

Efford is an absolute disaster as an MP, Had some issues and contacted him. Because I wasn't a paid up Marxist was not interested.  Spanner, nothing else to add.

TootingRedArmy said:

Lots on social media about the police get properly stuck into Bayern fans at The Emrites champions league
before the match started.....
leave the students who steward to stand around and look bored, its not in their job description to get stuck in, lets see MET inside the JS and actually police it.....simple isn't it? 

so what you're saying if we get the privilege to play them again at home next season we just send in the MET to let of a bit of steam on the back of their skulls.. fair enough. 

Covered End said:

TootingRedArmy said:

You said I’m revelling “participating in lively and noisy festivities, especially involving drinking and dancing.” Well, I don’t drink! and the last time I danced was at a wedding under duress. What I am doing is pointing out (again) that Millwall fans attacked Charlton fans, woeful handling of this fixture before, during and after. And the Met Police? Copy, paste, repeat.

I’m sorry, but it’s impossible to see Millwall as anything but a hooligan club when the evidence has been on display for decades. I’ve seen it multi-times, i'm sure most Addicks have too.

Sure, @MillwallFan can chime in, but I’m not here for a lecture on the “virtues” of that fanbase and he doesn't like it when a Charlton fan points out the historical evidence & first hand accounts of of the "bushwackers" so his response is to be rude & throw a hissy. 

This thread still has legs unlike some of the Met Police after the last fixture. And it should, because no one should accept the same lazy policing or the same tired excuses next time we play Millwall.

Millwall Fan has been a well respected poster on here since 2013, which is longer than yourself and he doesn’t go on and on about the same one topic for weeks on end.
Leave him alone stop boring everyone to death thank you.

.

TootingRedArmy said:

I’m just saying… when it comes to managing Millwall at the Valley, we really should not be relying on fresh-faced student stewards whose biggest battle to date has been a queue at Pret. Lovely kids, excellent at scanning tickets, bag searches and pointing to Block F, but not exactly trained for “Gate 21: The Millwall Agro"

Last home match we allegedly had 300 police “on duty” though some were so far away allegedly at Elephant & Castle? London Bridge? whatever they we so far away they were practically useless and invisible to most Charlton fans. 

Even the police commander admitted that when it kicked off at Gate 21, he didn’t call his officers in they were probably still sat in white vans, guarding a very intimidating Nando’s and not wanting to spill there coffees.

So next time, instead of lining Floyd Road with fluorescent jackets who are allergic to confrontation, how about we have actual Met police inside the stadium and in Jimmy Seed stand? Like we saw when Bayern fans got lively at Arsenal the Met didn't faff about waiting for permission, they waded in like a well-drilled rugby pack.

If it kicks off, let the professionals handle it, not the role of a second-year student steward holding a foam finger and a walkie-talkie he’s too scared to use. Yes, it’ll cost the club  but safety isn't optional. Charlton have 20,000+ home fans to look after. We expect proper policing, not a remix of “Work Experience: The Steward Edition”. The club need to just pay the MET, no ifs no buts. 

I think the Elephant & Castle reference was the pub in Woolwich, not the actual place

PragueAddick said:

DOUCHER said:

Did Nigel point out anywhere in that exchange how the rest of the country hold back the away fans, not home - if he did he hasn’t written in the notes of the meeting. That is THE POINT and THE single point of questioning - nowhere else , even for proper high risk games does this happen the other way round  - utter waste of time cast im afraid - Prague is our only hope 

Oof I am not sure I can deliver on that 😱 BUT, we already have Sir Mark Rowley on camera and off guard, saying that he has always thought it is the away fans who are held back. The problem is though that they can weasel out of it by saying “we didnt hold the Charlton fans back, we just diverted them”. 

Separately though I am wondering whether it isn’t worth a big push now re the away game for the idea that I first saw from @TelMc32, namely make South Bermondsey station an away fans only station to get Charlton fans away as quickly as they did Spanners at ours. The Met officers might be feeling a bit wary of us now that Len Duvall has got their boss on their case. It would be a way out of what would now be a PR disaster if they held us back. 

What do people think of the South Bermondsey idea though? I never used it when I went to the Toolbox, so I have no idea whats involved.

not keen - it might inconvenience a very small number of millwall fans but for me, the focus needs to remain on what happens at the valley re inconveniencing 20,000 charlton fans and how unique and wrong that is  

MillwallFan said:

Ducktapeshoerepairs said:

doronron said:

I've only heard this second hand but Millwall were locked out of South Bermondsey Station while Middlesbrough fans were escorted to the trains, so we might not be held back this year .

I heard a similar story when Wrexham went there this year. 

Havent been through south Bermondsey after a game in a while so don’t quote me on this but I believe it’s staggered between home fans and away fans. They will let a big chunk of home fans on the first train, maybe the second, then they’ll hold the rest back while they get the away fans on the train and out of it. 

By the way, making south Bermondsey a designated away fan station is never going to happen. Not in a million years. Maybe when the new station gets opened on Surrey canal Road (whenever that will be! No dates yet). But until then, no chance. 

Surrey Canal Road is struggling to be signed off by TfL on cost grounds - the current design is too expensive, despite a slug of development money and that some initial construction was done when this section of the East London Line was constructed.
A cheaper design, with narrower platforms is being considered. 
The implication is that the station will be closed to punters after the game on match days, for safety reasons, to prevent overcrowding. 
Just another example of how brilliantly the UK does infrastructure projects...

KBslittlesis said:

PragueAddick said:

DOUCHER said:

Did Nigel point out anywhere in that exchange how the rest of the country hold back the away fans, not home - if he did he hasn’t written in the notes of the meeting. That is THE POINT and THE single point of questioning - nowhere else , even for proper high risk games does this happen the other way round  - utter waste of time cast im afraid - Prague is our only hope 

Oof I am not sure I can deliver on that 😱 BUT, we already have Sir Mark Rowley on camera and off guard, saying that he has always thought it is the away fans who are held back. The problem is though that they can weasel out of it by saying “we didnt hold the Charlton fans back, we just diverted them”. 

Separately though I am wondering whether it isn’t worth a big push now re the away game for the idea that I first saw from @TelMc32, namely make South Bermondsey station an away fans only station to get Charlton fans away as quickly as they did Spanners at ours. The Met officers might be feeling a bit wary of us now that Len Duvall has got their boss on their case. It would be a way out of what would now be a PR disaster if they held us back. 

What do people think of the South Bermondsey idea though? I never used it when I went to the Toolbox, so I have no idea whats involved.

PWR the answers to this.
But the plan when I policed The Den was get the away fans out first, via the safe fenced walkway at the back of the away stand to South Bermondsey on the first trains out and gone. Those who weren’t on the trains would be held back so the home fans could then get out.
My position, the walkway and that plan was the direct result of the riot that ensued after the playoff against Birmingham.
It works and when I first went to the Den after I’d left that job and I managed to get out as I knew the Bronze on the gate but the rest of you were held in for nearly an hour, I asked why it had suddenly changed and the reply was ‘it’s all gone to rat shit now’.

Was that code for “the top plod making the decision is a spanner”? 😉

RickAddick said:

MillwallFan said:

Ducktapeshoerepairs said:

doronron said:

I've only heard this second hand but Millwall were locked out of South Bermondsey Station while Middlesbrough fans were escorted to the trains, so we might not be held back this year .

I heard a similar story when Wrexham went there this year. 

Havent been through south Bermondsey after a game in a while so don’t quote me on this but I believe it’s staggered between home fans and away fans. They will let a big chunk of home fans on the first train, maybe the second, then they’ll hold the rest back while they get the away fans on the train and out of it. 

By the way, making south Bermondsey a designated away fan station is never going to happen. Not in a million years. Maybe when the new station gets opened on Surrey canal Road (whenever that will be! No dates yet). But until then, no chance. 

Surrey Canal Road is struggling to be signed off by TfL on cost grounds - the current design is too expensive, despite a slug of development money and that some initial construction was done when this section of the East London Line was constructed.
A cheaper design, with narrower platforms is being considered. 
The implication is that the station will be closed to punters after the game on match days, for safety reasons, to prevent overcrowding. 
Just another example of how brilliantly the UK does infrastructure projects...

Ah right. Interesting.