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Savings and Investments thread

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  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,278


    Maybe worth a read before y'all sell up to join hard working entrepreneurs like Matt and Jade Southall in Dubai.😉 Full article in PDF upload
  • Huskaris
    Huskaris Posts: 9,898
    edited December 13
    PragueAddick said:


    Maybe worth a read before y'all sell up to join hard working entrepreneurs like Matt and Jade Southall in Dubai.😉 Full article in PDF upload
    I watched a very good TLDR News video saying something similar and I largely agreed with it. I would add though that things like the terrible handling of the budget is one of the main reasons the economy shrank in latest figures. Consumers and businesses have a real lack of faith, but thankfully the bond markets are holding strong.

    Having said that, I don't think the entrepreneurs/millionaires are leaving (they're actually not, but if they are good we hate them anyway etc) because of the state of the economy, they are leaving because the taxation laws for foreign millionaires make no sense (taxed on global income means double taxation, inheritance tax on global assets rather than just UK assets etc). A few have also said because of safety. Not because London is a crime ridden hellhole like some bot accounts shilling from Africa would have you believe, but because places like Dubai are incredibly safe. 

    I'd rather shit in my hands and clap than move to Dubai to be fair, but I could see myself moving to Milan. Places without crime tend to come with the flip side of being soulless oppressive hellholes. 
  • Southbank
    Southbank Posts: 5,430
    PragueAddick said:
    valleynick66 said:
    PragueAddick said:
    A while ago @bobmunro made a quick comment that even money market/cash funds are not risk-fee. Which I noted, but filed under "inconvenient truths". Today in the FT the deliberately controversial punter-commentator Stuart Kirk has expanded on that, prompting some very interesting BTL comments.

    So it's good to note that (and I didn't see anyone make much of this here) the bank deposit guarantee level has been quietly raised from 85k to 120k. (It will be interesting to see if Europe follows suit, so far I have seen not a whisper on it)

    The question is, if you use these funds long term, as I am now doing, maybe it's worth de-risking further and switching some of those funds into banks like Charter Savings. You lose maybe 0.5% in returns by doing so, but your wedge will be protected by the government. 

    If you can't read the article, Stuart Kirk sold all his £650k holdings in equity funds (!) and stuck it in one money market fund, Fidelity Cash, and only after he did it, decided to see what Fidelity Cash really holds. Answer: it ain't cash, not as we know it. 
    So one way of looking at the maths on this is you can move an extra £35k into the safety net of FSCS but lose 0.5% of gain. 

    That’s about £175 than prior to December when the limit changed. 

    I’m not sure I see why that sum would be the deciding factor?

    Isn’t this really that the money market funds are not as close to cash as you might have thought and really the change in the FSCS limit is just an aside - the overall risk is greater than the 0.5% benefit is really the concern?
    It's about sleeping well at night, at a senior age. I progressively de-risked my SIPP and to a lesser extent my non-SIPP funds and shares account, by removing excessive holdings of the Big Seven tech stocks, often lurking in funds that have ostensibly a much wider re-mit. I dumped the proceeds in the  money market funds. It means that my SIPP is now slowly chugging along regardless of what happens in la-la land. However if things get even more insane, even those funds could take a beating. Actually I have just been offered to renew a one-year bond with Investec at 4.51%, which is pretty much what the MM funds are delivering - and I have to remember the platform fee charge to H-L as well as the (minimal) fund fees. My priority is to hang on to what I have (because I wish to spend some of it while I can enjoy doing that). If you are 20 years younger than me your priorities and risk evaluation will be different. The MM funds will probably be the last funds to tank, but if everything tanks then government guaranteed bank accounts delivering 4.3-4.5% will be a safe harbour I'll be grateful for.

    Incidentally my de-risking involved  selling chunks of my tech funds progressively as the market rose (another 5%, another chunk sold). Currently the two funds remain a shade below the last time I sold, on 29 October. I still have more to sell if they kick on another 5%, but so far they are unable to even get higher than the last time I sold. Something, or nothing? Stuart Kirk thinks its something, and so apparently does Warren Buffet, who has been busy selling his Apple holdings.
    But buying Google
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,278
    Southbank said:
    PragueAddick said:
    valleynick66 said:
    PragueAddick said:
    A while ago @bobmunro made a quick comment that even money market/cash funds are not risk-fee. Which I noted, but filed under "inconvenient truths". Today in the FT the deliberately controversial punter-commentator Stuart Kirk has expanded on that, prompting some very interesting BTL comments.

    So it's good to note that (and I didn't see anyone make much of this here) the bank deposit guarantee level has been quietly raised from 85k to 120k. (It will be interesting to see if Europe follows suit, so far I have seen not a whisper on it)

    The question is, if you use these funds long term, as I am now doing, maybe it's worth de-risking further and switching some of those funds into banks like Charter Savings. You lose maybe 0.5% in returns by doing so, but your wedge will be protected by the government. 

    If you can't read the article, Stuart Kirk sold all his £650k holdings in equity funds (!) and stuck it in one money market fund, Fidelity Cash, and only after he did it, decided to see what Fidelity Cash really holds. Answer: it ain't cash, not as we know it. 
    So one way of looking at the maths on this is you can move an extra £35k into the safety net of FSCS but lose 0.5% of gain. 

    That’s about £175 than prior to December when the limit changed. 

    I’m not sure I see why that sum would be the deciding factor?

    Isn’t this really that the money market funds are not as close to cash as you might have thought and really the change in the FSCS limit is just an aside - the overall risk is greater than the 0.5% benefit is really the concern?
    It's about sleeping well at night, at a senior age. I progressively de-risked my SIPP and to a lesser extent my non-SIPP funds and shares account, by removing excessive holdings of the Big Seven tech stocks, often lurking in funds that have ostensibly a much wider re-mit. I dumped the proceeds in the  money market funds. It means that my SIPP is now slowly chugging along regardless of what happens in la-la land. However if things get even more insane, even those funds could take a beating. Actually I have just been offered to renew a one-year bond with Investec at 4.51%, which is pretty much what the MM funds are delivering - and I have to remember the platform fee charge to H-L as well as the (minimal) fund fees. My priority is to hang on to what I have (because I wish to spend some of it while I can enjoy doing that). If you are 20 years younger than me your priorities and risk evaluation will be different. The MM funds will probably be the last funds to tank, but if everything tanks then government guaranteed bank accounts delivering 4.3-4.5% will be a safe harbour I'll be grateful for.

    Incidentally my de-risking involved  selling chunks of my tech funds progressively as the market rose (another 5%, another chunk sold). Currently the two funds remain a shade below the last time I sold, on 29 October. I still have more to sell if they kick on another 5%, but so far they are unable to even get higher than the last time I sold. Something, or nothing? Stuart Kirk thinks its something, and so apparently does Warren Buffet, who has been busy selling his Apple holdings.
    But buying Google
    Alphabet? Do you have a link for that? (not disputing that it's true, just interested). WB has apparently been selling a  lot of holdings, not just in Apple.
  • allworknoplay
    allworknoplay Posts: 15
    I have worked hard to build up a reasonably successful company during my working life and as a result have also built up a significant future IHT bill as my reward. I have been working with a small wealth management company for a good few years and have been warm hand gifting (PETs) to my kids and grandkids. I am now thinking of converting my current limited company into a FIC, taking out some fairly substantial Whole of Life insurance and various trust structures to try to reduce the IHT liability and go someway to protecting what will be a fairly large inheritance for the benefit of the family. It has all got really complicated with lots of potential fees involved for everyone and if I am honest, I am not sure I am doing the right thing. I absolutely trust my advisors, but I can't help feeling I need someone to review the proposals and sense check it, so I don't blindly walk into something which I don't entirely understand. Any thoughts and advice on how to proceed would be very welcome. Cheers
  • superclive98
    superclive98 Posts: 4,873
     Base rate cut to 3.75%.
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,780
    allworknoplay said:
    I have worked hard to build up a reasonably successful company during my working life and as a result have also built up a significant future IHT bill as my reward. I have been working with a small wealth management company for a good few years and have been warm hand gifting (PETs) to my kids and grandkids. I am now thinking of converting my current limited company into a FIC, taking out some fairly substantial Whole of Life insurance and various trust structures to try to reduce the IHT liability and go someway to protecting what will be a fairly large inheritance for the benefit of the family. It has all got really complicated with lots of potential fees involved for everyone and if I am honest, I am not sure I am doing the right thing. I absolutely trust my advisors, but I can't help feeling I need someone to review the proposals and sense check it, so I don't blindly walk into something which I don't entirely understand. Any thoughts and advice on how to proceed would be very welcome. Cheers
    Obviously I don’t know any of your personal circumstances, but why not just give as much away as you can now? 
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 34,365
    allworknoplay said:
    I have worked hard to build up a reasonably successful company during my working life and as a result have also built up a significant future IHT bill as my reward. I have been working with a small wealth management company for a good few years and have been warm hand gifting (PETs) to my kids and grandkids. I am now thinking of converting my current limited company into a FIC, taking out some fairly substantial Whole of Life insurance and various trust structures to try to reduce the IHT liability and go someway to protecting what will be a fairly large inheritance for the benefit of the family. It has all got really complicated with lots of potential fees involved for everyone and if I am honest, I am not sure I am doing the right thing. I absolutely trust my advisors, but I can't help feeling I need someone to review the proposals and sense check it, so I don't blindly walk into something which I don't entirely understand. Any thoughts and advice on how to proceed would be very welcome. Cheers
    I have to say that I don't generally deal with business owners or High Net Worth individuals, but on a basic level a Business Relief scheme (used to be called Business Property Relief) could be a good shout for some of your money. Held in your name and not in a Trust (so you still have control over the money) you can invest up to £1m (soon to be £500k for AIM shares) and which is outside your Estate after 2 years. 
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 34,365
    Rob7Lee said:
    allworknoplay said:
    I have worked hard to build up a reasonably successful company during my working life and as a result have also built up a significant future IHT bill as my reward. I have been working with a small wealth management company for a good few years and have been warm hand gifting (PETs) to my kids and grandkids. I am now thinking of converting my current limited company into a FIC, taking out some fairly substantial Whole of Life insurance and various trust structures to try to reduce the IHT liability and go someway to protecting what will be a fairly large inheritance for the benefit of the family. It has all got really complicated with lots of potential fees involved for everyone and if I am honest, I am not sure I am doing the right thing. I absolutely trust my advisors, but I can't help feeling I need someone to review the proposals and sense check it, so I don't blindly walk into something which I don't entirely understand. Any thoughts and advice on how to proceed would be very welcome. Cheers
    Obviously I don’t know any of your personal circumstances, but why not just give as much away as you can now? 
    Sounds like he (or she) already has with regard to PET's mentioned.
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 21,108
    edited December 18
    golfaddick said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    allworknoplay said:
    I have worked hard to build up a reasonably successful company during my working life and as a result have also built up a significant future IHT bill as my reward. I have been working with a small wealth management company for a good few years and have been warm hand gifting (PETs) to my kids and grandkids. I am now thinking of converting my current limited company into a FIC, taking out some fairly substantial Whole of Life insurance and various trust structures to try to reduce the IHT liability and go someway to protecting what will be a fairly large inheritance for the benefit of the family. It has all got really complicated with lots of potential fees involved for everyone and if I am honest, I am not sure I am doing the right thing. I absolutely trust my advisors, but I can't help feeling I need someone to review the proposals and sense check it, so I don't blindly walk into something which I don't entirely understand. Any thoughts and advice on how to proceed would be very welcome. Cheers
    Obviously I don’t know any of your personal circumstances, but why not just give as much away as you can now? 
    Sounds like he (or she) already has with regard to PET's mentioned.

    Yes. Can't do that with a close company's share structure though (I know you know that) so an FIC is probably the way to go.

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  • allworknoplay
    allworknoplay Posts: 15
    golfaddick said:
    allworknoplay said:
    I have worked hard to build up a reasonably successful company during my working life and as a result have also built up a significant future IHT bill as my reward. I have been working with a small wealth management company for a good few years and have been warm hand gifting (PETs) to my kids and grandkids. I am now thinking of converting my current limited company into a FIC, taking out some fairly substantial Whole of Life insurance and various trust structures to try to reduce the IHT liability and go someway to protecting what will be a fairly large inheritance for the benefit of the family. It has all got really complicated with lots of potential fees involved for everyone and if I am honest, I am not sure I am doing the right thing. I absolutely trust my advisors, but I can't help feeling I need someone to review the proposals and sense check it, so I don't blindly walk into something which I don't entirely understand. Any thoughts and advice on how to proceed would be very welcome. Cheers
    I have to say that I don't generally deal with business owners or High Net Worth individuals, but on a basic level a Business Relief scheme (used to be called Business Property Relief) could be a good shout for some of your money. Held in your name and not in a Trust (so you still have control over the money) you can invest up to £1m (soon to be £500k for AIM shares) and which is outside your Estate after 2 years. 
    Thanks. I have looked at this as one of my advisors recommendations, monies dropping out of your estate in 2 years is great, however tying up a large sum of money until death (currently 58) to qualify for relief doesn't appeal. There is also the chance that the relief can be contested and/or future legislation changes the rules of the game. 
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 34,365
    allworknoplay said:
    golfaddick said:
    allworknoplay said:
    I have worked hard to build up a reasonably successful company during my working life and as a result have also built up a significant future IHT bill as my reward. I have been working with a small wealth management company for a good few years and have been warm hand gifting (PETs) to my kids and grandkids. I am now thinking of converting my current limited company into a FIC, taking out some fairly substantial Whole of Life insurance and various trust structures to try to reduce the IHT liability and go someway to protecting what will be a fairly large inheritance for the benefit of the family. It has all got really complicated with lots of potential fees involved for everyone and if I am honest, I am not sure I am doing the right thing. I absolutely trust my advisors, but I can't help feeling I need someone to review the proposals and sense check it, so I don't blindly walk into something which I don't entirely understand. Any thoughts and advice on how to proceed would be very welcome. Cheers
    I have to say that I don't generally deal with business owners or High Net Worth individuals, but on a basic level a Business Relief scheme (used to be called Business Property Relief) could be a good shout for some of your money. Held in your name and not in a Trust (so you still have control over the money) you can invest up to £1m (soon to be £500k for AIM shares) and which is outside your Estate after 2 years. 
    Thanks. I have looked at this as one of my advisors recommendations, monies dropping out of your estate in 2 years is great, however tying up a large sum of money until death (currently 58) to qualify for relief doesn't appeal. There is also the chance that the relief can be contested and/or future legislation changes the rules of the game. 
    For clarity.......

    You can put in as much or as little as you like (min usually £5k, max £1m) and it will be outside of your Estate after 2 years. The money is still yours & you can use it whenever you like, so its not tied up at all. 

    Yes, HMRC could challenge the scheme you are in,  but I've not heard of one falling foul of the rules,  esp if you use one of the big players.
  • allworknoplay
    allworknoplay Posts: 15
    Agreed, but you need to be invested at point of death to qualify, so essentially it is a life long investment.
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 34,365
    allworknoplay said:
    Agreed, but you need to be invested at point of death to qualify, so essentially it is a life long investment.
    True.

    But at least you are taking steps to mitigate a known IHT problem. Do nothing  - big tax bill. Do something  - a lesser tax bill.  If you do something & then happen to need some of those assets during your lifetime then you haven't wasted anything. If you dont do anything & find out you eventually dont need the money then you've wasted a opportunity & left a greater tax bill. 
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 34,365
    FTSE100 ending the week on a high. 

    At 16.20 it just breached 9900 and just 30 points off it's all time high. Will it breach 10,000 for the very first time before the end of the year ??
  • AndyG
    AndyG Posts: 6,037
    allworknoplay said:
    I have worked hard to build up a reasonably successful company during my working life and as a result have also built up a significant future IHT bill as my reward. I have been working with a small wealth management company for a good few years and have been warm hand gifting (PETs) to my kids and grandkids. I am now thinking of converting my current limited company into a FIC, taking out some fairly substantial Whole of Life insurance and various trust structures to try to reduce the IHT liability and go someway to protecting what will be a fairly large inheritance for the benefit of the family. It has all got really complicated with lots of potential fees involved for everyone and if I am honest, I am not sure I am doing the right thing. I absolutely trust my advisors, but I can't help feeling I need someone to review the proposals and sense check it, so I don't blindly walk into something which I don't entirely understand. Any thoughts and advice on how to proceed would be very welcome. Cheers
    Hi mate. I’m in the same position and currently looking at the same options as you. Like you I can’t decide what way to go. The budget bringing company share values into play has really buggered things up hasn’t it. Spent my life building a business which will eventually potentially either bankrupt my kids or force the closure of a business that provides employment for a not insignificant number of people. The people making these decisions honestly have no brain 
  • allworknoplay
    allworknoplay Posts: 15
    AndyG said:
    allworknoplay said:
    I have worked hard to build up a reasonably successful company during my working life and as a result have also built up a significant future IHT bill as my reward. I have been working with a small wealth management company for a good few years and have been warm hand gifting (PETs) to my kids and grandkids. I am now thinking of converting my current limited company into a FIC, taking out some fairly substantial Whole of Life insurance and various trust structures to try to reduce the IHT liability and go someway to protecting what will be a fairly large inheritance for the benefit of the family. It has all got really complicated with lots of potential fees involved for everyone and if I am honest, I am not sure I am doing the right thing. I absolutely trust my advisors, but I can't help feeling I need someone to review the proposals and sense check it, so I don't blindly walk into something which I don't entirely understand. Any thoughts and advice on how to proceed would be very welcome. Cheers
    Hi mate. I’m in the same position and currently looking at the same options as you. Like you I can’t decide what way to go. The budget bringing company share values into play has really buggered things up hasn’t it. Spent my life building a business which will eventually potentially either bankrupt my kids or force the closure of a business that provides employment for a not insignificant number of people. The people making these decisions honestly have no brain 
    Are you getting professional advice? Personally I find it really worrying. Trying to make the right decisions which are best for the family. When I started my business in the late eighties it was all about working hard and doing well, but now I feel that things are stacked against business owners. The big one for me was the decision to include pensions into your estate for IHT. 
  • Southbank
    Southbank Posts: 5,430
    PragueAddick said:
    Southbank said:
    PragueAddick said:
    valleynick66 said:
    PragueAddick said:
    A while ago @bobmunro made a quick comment that even money market/cash funds are not risk-fee. Which I noted, but filed under "inconvenient truths". Today in the FT the deliberately controversial punter-commentator Stuart Kirk has expanded on that, prompting some very interesting BTL comments.

    So it's good to note that (and I didn't see anyone make much of this here) the bank deposit guarantee level has been quietly raised from 85k to 120k. (It will be interesting to see if Europe follows suit, so far I have seen not a whisper on it)

    The question is, if you use these funds long term, as I am now doing, maybe it's worth de-risking further and switching some of those funds into banks like Charter Savings. You lose maybe 0.5% in returns by doing so, but your wedge will be protected by the government. 

    If you can't read the article, Stuart Kirk sold all his £650k holdings in equity funds (!) and stuck it in one money market fund, Fidelity Cash, and only after he did it, decided to see what Fidelity Cash really holds. Answer: it ain't cash, not as we know it. 
    So one way of looking at the maths on this is you can move an extra £35k into the safety net of FSCS but lose 0.5% of gain. 

    That’s about £175 than prior to December when the limit changed. 

    I’m not sure I see why that sum would be the deciding factor?

    Isn’t this really that the money market funds are not as close to cash as you might have thought and really the change in the FSCS limit is just an aside - the overall risk is greater than the 0.5% benefit is really the concern?
    It's about sleeping well at night, at a senior age. I progressively de-risked my SIPP and to a lesser extent my non-SIPP funds and shares account, by removing excessive holdings of the Big Seven tech stocks, often lurking in funds that have ostensibly a much wider re-mit. I dumped the proceeds in the  money market funds. It means that my SIPP is now slowly chugging along regardless of what happens in la-la land. However if things get even more insane, even those funds could take a beating. Actually I have just been offered to renew a one-year bond with Investec at 4.51%, which is pretty much what the MM funds are delivering - and I have to remember the platform fee charge to H-L as well as the (minimal) fund fees. My priority is to hang on to what I have (because I wish to spend some of it while I can enjoy doing that). If you are 20 years younger than me your priorities and risk evaluation will be different. The MM funds will probably be the last funds to tank, but if everything tanks then government guaranteed bank accounts delivering 4.3-4.5% will be a safe harbour I'll be grateful for.

    Incidentally my de-risking involved  selling chunks of my tech funds progressively as the market rose (another 5%, another chunk sold). Currently the two funds remain a shade below the last time I sold, on 29 October. I still have more to sell if they kick on another 5%, but so far they are unable to even get higher than the last time I sold. Something, or nothing? Stuart Kirk thinks its something, and so apparently does Warren Buffet, who has been busy selling his Apple holdings.
    But buying Google
    Alphabet? Do you have a link for that? (not disputing that it's true, just interested). WB has apparently been selling a  lot of holdings, not just in Apple.
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/buffett-bought-alphabet-named-top-153433927.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAANANd0DJJZMwnf1ECkQG0wvQFHJYL8R37SCE6JAM45nrLpj_75nohur-DgLwztYCS6nU_Tp1dsLzyafr2FllaLwtXIlKv9QUg-7I-hwC0c_AMBIKj2-P1H9ShArgPWRxlcvobM2cDdX1X-yk2vfTfYZyhdDBjXZyu2SrchzWyWyN
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,780
    With just a handful more trading days to go, it's looking like we all undershot! With the FTSE at 9897, @ThreadKiller has it all his/her own way with a 200 point buffer

    NameLevelVariance% Variance
    Thread Killer9761136.421.38%
    Jints9750147.421.49%
    Friend or Defoe9657240.422.43%
    Arsenetatters9525372.423.76%
    @TelMc329450447.424.52%
    IdleHans9434463.424.68%
    Addick Addict9424473.424.78%
    Diebythesword9400497.425.03%
    cafcpolo9395502.425.08%
    StrikerFirmani9365532.425.38%
    WHAddick9335562.425.68%
    meldrew669301596.426.03%
    Hornchurch9275622.426.29%
    Housty9254643.426.50%
    blackpool729245652.426.59%
    TheGhostofTomHovi9236661.426.68%
    CharltonKerry9234663.426.70%
    Covered End9220677.426.84%
    Carter9212685.426.93%
    Jamescafc9200697.427.05%
    Addickinedi9176721.427.29%
    RalphMilne9168729.427.37%
    valleynick669165732.427.40%
    guinnessaddick9152745.427.53%
    thecat9136761.427.69%
    fat man on a moped9116781.427.90%
    wwaddick9104793.428.02%
    golfaddick9101796.428.05%
    WishIdStayedInThe Pub9101796.428.05%
    Jon_CAFC_9088809.428.18%
    BalladMan9058839.428.48%
    Huskaris9025872.428.81%
    Solidgone9021876.428.86%
    Rob7Lee9000897.429.07%
    Bangkokaddick8998899.429.09%
    Pedro458925972.429.82%
    LargeAddick88841013.4210.24%
    Redman88761021.4210.32%
    holyjo88101087.4210.99%
    PragueAddick87251172.4211.85%
    CAFCWest86211276.4212.90%
    Fortune 82nd Minute85711326.4213.40%
    HardyAddick85481349.4213.63%
    bobmunro84521445.4214.60%
    Lenglover83011596.4216.13%
    Siv_In_Norfolk74002497.4225.23%
    Er_Be_Ab_Pl_Wo_Wo_Ch 65003397.4234.33%
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,278
    Up to 2024, most of us mug punters were getting our predictions to within 2-3% of the final closing number. This time I am out by 11%. 

    Now here is a little quiz/‘research. Please only answer off the top of your head. If you just cannot resist looking it up first please just stay schtum and see how the others do.

    Who knows what the company Fresnillo does, where is it located, and why should it be of interest to (not just) us mug punters? I’ll go first. I had no clue until I read about it today, but it looks like I am a shareholder!

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  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 29,134
    🤷🏻‍♂️
  • Carter
    Carter Posts: 14,371
    I do, its in one of my pies and I have a relatively modest stake. 

    Given the price of what it produces going one way I'd say they are 100% worth a punt. Decent divident yield, good growth. Prices might be a bit toppy now and I can't claim any foresight as I got in unknowingly and did so at a good time when prices were 400% lower 
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,278
    Carter said:
    I do, its in one of my pies and I have a relatively modest stake. 

    Given the price of what it produces going one way I'd say they are 100% worth a punt. Decent divident yield, good growth. Prices might be a bit toppy now and I can't claim any foresight as I got in unknowingly and did so at a good time when prices were 400% lower 
    When I first read that I thought “that @Carter is a dark horse”, but if I understand a “pie” it is a bundle of shares pre-selected by your platform. Still, good on yer. Hopefully you dont have a pie with Novo Nordisk in it😉
  • AndyG
    AndyG Posts: 6,037
    allworknoplay said:
    AndyG said:
    allworknoplay said:
    I have worked hard to build up a reasonably successful company during my working life and as a result have also built up a significant future IHT bill as my reward. I have been working with a small wealth management company for a good few years and have been warm hand gifting (PETs) to my kids and grandkids. I am now thinking of converting my current limited company into a FIC, taking out some fairly substantial Whole of Life insurance and various trust structures to try to reduce the IHT liability and go someway to protecting what will be a fairly large inheritance for the benefit of the family. It has all got really complicated with lots of potential fees involved for everyone and if I am honest, I am not sure I am doing the right thing. I absolutely trust my advisors, but I can't help feeling I need someone to review the proposals and sense check it, so I don't blindly walk into something which I don't entirely understand. Any thoughts and advice on how to proceed would be very welcome. Cheers
    Hi mate. I’m in the same position and currently looking at the same options as you. Like you I can’t decide what way to go. The budget bringing company share values into play has really buggered things up hasn’t it. Spent my life building a business which will eventually potentially either bankrupt my kids or force the closure of a business that provides employment for a not insignificant number of people. The people making these decisions honestly have no brain 
    Are you getting professional advice? Personally I find it really worrying. Trying to make the right decisions which are best for the family. When I started my business in the late eighties it was all about working hard and doing well, but now I feel that things are stacked against business owners. The big one for me was the decision to include pensions into your estate for IHT. 
    Yes we are mate but even so it is not easy trying to reach the correct outcome for 1. the business. 2. The kids and 3. Me.

    My point was that like you it seems unfair that we should be put into this situation where we are having to try and protect what has been built over decades before it becomes a poisen chalice 
  • Carter
    Carter Posts: 14,371
    PragueAddick said:
    Carter said:
    I do, its in one of my pies and I have a relatively modest stake. 

    Given the price of what it produces going one way I'd say they are 100% worth a punt. Decent divident yield, good growth. Prices might be a bit toppy now and I can't claim any foresight as I got in unknowingly and did so at a good time when prices were 400% lower 
    When I first read that I thought “that @Carter is a dark horse”, but if I understand a “pie” it is a bundle of shares pre-selected by your platform. Still, good on yer. Hopefully you dont have a pie with Novo Nordisk in it😉
    That is correct, I still have a C*nt pie and a nice pie replacing my indivually picked lists 

    Fresnillo are part of a precious metals pie I copied then modified myself. I'd love to say i picked this individual one myself but I have a feeling the pies original creator takes credit for that 

    You can copy other people's pies if you think they know what they are doing and the pie aligns with your own goals (recommended) or make your own. I've done a bit of both with a focus on income and regular dividends 
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 21,108
    AndyG said:
    allworknoplay said:
    AndyG said:
    allworknoplay said:
    I have worked hard to build up a reasonably successful company during my working life and as a result have also built up a significant future IHT bill as my reward. I have been working with a small wealth management company for a good few years and have been warm hand gifting (PETs) to my kids and grandkids. I am now thinking of converting my current limited company into a FIC, taking out some fairly substantial Whole of Life insurance and various trust structures to try to reduce the IHT liability and go someway to protecting what will be a fairly large inheritance for the benefit of the family. It has all got really complicated with lots of potential fees involved for everyone and if I am honest, I am not sure I am doing the right thing. I absolutely trust my advisors, but I can't help feeling I need someone to review the proposals and sense check it, so I don't blindly walk into something which I don't entirely understand. Any thoughts and advice on how to proceed would be very welcome. Cheers
    Hi mate. I’m in the same position and currently looking at the same options as you. Like you I can’t decide what way to go. The budget bringing company share values into play has really buggered things up hasn’t it. Spent my life building a business which will eventually potentially either bankrupt my kids or force the closure of a business that provides employment for a not insignificant number of people. The people making these decisions honestly have no brain 
    Are you getting professional advice? Personally I find it really worrying. Trying to make the right decisions which are best for the family. When I started my business in the late eighties it was all about working hard and doing well, but now I feel that things are stacked against business owners. The big one for me was the decision to include pensions into your estate for IHT. 
    Yes we are mate but even so it is not easy trying to reach the correct outcome for 1. the business. 2. The kids and 3. Me.

    My point was that like you it seems unfair that we should be put into this situation where we are having to try and protect what has been built over decades before it becomes a poisen chalice 

    IHT applies to business owners and non business owners alike.
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 34,365
    PragueAddick said:
    Up to 2024, most of us mug punters were getting our predictions to within 2-3% of the final closing number. This time I am out by 11%. 

    Now here is a little quiz/‘research. Please only answer off the top of your head. If you just cannot resist looking it up first please just stay schtum and see how the others do.

    Who knows what the company Fresnillo does, where is it located, and why should it be of interest to (not just) us mug punters? I’ll go first. I had no clue until I read about it today, but it looks like I am a shareholder!
    Gold mining  ??

    I would say South Africa but its not a SA sounding name. Sounds more US based. 
  • allworknoplay
    allworknoplay Posts: 15
    bobmunro said:
    AndyG said:
    allworknoplay said:
    AndyG said:
    allworknoplay said:
    I have worked hard to build up a reasonably successful company during my working life and as a result have also built up a significant future IHT bill as my reward. I have been working with a small wealth management company for a good few years and have been warm hand gifting (PETs) to my kids and grandkids. I am now thinking of converting my current limited company into a FIC, taking out some fairly substantial Whole of Life insurance and various trust structures to try to reduce the IHT liability and go someway to protecting what will be a fairly large inheritance for the benefit of the family. It has all got really complicated with lots of potential fees involved for everyone and if I am honest, I am not sure I am doing the right thing. I absolutely trust my advisors, but I can't help feeling I need someone to review the proposals and sense check it, so I don't blindly walk into something which I don't entirely understand. Any thoughts and advice on how to proceed would be very welcome. Cheers
    Hi mate. I’m in the same position and currently looking at the same options as you. Like you I can’t decide what way to go. The budget bringing company share values into play has really buggered things up hasn’t it. Spent my life building a business which will eventually potentially either bankrupt my kids or force the closure of a business that provides employment for a not insignificant number of people. The people making these decisions honestly have no brain 
    Are you getting professional advice? Personally I find it really worrying. Trying to make the right decisions which are best for the family. When I started my business in the late eighties it was all about working hard and doing well, but now I feel that things are stacked against business owners. The big one for me was the decision to include pensions into your estate for IHT. 
    Yes we are mate but even so it is not easy trying to reach the correct outcome for 1. the business. 2. The kids and 3. Me.

    My point was that like you it seems unfair that we should be put into this situation where we are having to try and protect what has been built over decades before it becomes a poisen chalice 

    IHT applies to business owners and non business owners alike.
    Absolutely, but if you throw a successful business into the mix the stakes are likely to be higher, and the need for IHT planning all the more important.
  • AndyG
    AndyG Posts: 6,037
    bobmunro said:
    AndyG said:
    allworknoplay said:
    AndyG said:
    allworknoplay said:
    I have worked hard to build up a reasonably successful company during my working life and as a result have also built up a significant future IHT bill as my reward. I have been working with a small wealth management company for a good few years and have been warm hand gifting (PETs) to my kids and grandkids. I am now thinking of converting my current limited company into a FIC, taking out some fairly substantial Whole of Life insurance and various trust structures to try to reduce the IHT liability and go someway to protecting what will be a fairly large inheritance for the benefit of the family. It has all got really complicated with lots of potential fees involved for everyone and if I am honest, I am not sure I am doing the right thing. I absolutely trust my advisors, but I can't help feeling I need someone to review the proposals and sense check it, so I don't blindly walk into something which I don't entirely understand. Any thoughts and advice on how to proceed would be very welcome. Cheers
    Hi mate. I’m in the same position and currently looking at the same options as you. Like you I can’t decide what way to go. The budget bringing company share values into play has really buggered things up hasn’t it. Spent my life building a business which will eventually potentially either bankrupt my kids or force the closure of a business that provides employment for a not insignificant number of people. The people making these decisions honestly have no brain 
    Are you getting professional advice? Personally I find it really worrying. Trying to make the right decisions which are best for the family. When I started my business in the late eighties it was all about working hard and doing well, but now I feel that things are stacked against business owners. The big one for me was the decision to include pensions into your estate for IHT. 
    Yes we are mate but even so it is not easy trying to reach the correct outcome for 1. the business. 2. The kids and 3. Me.

    My point was that like you it seems unfair that we should be put into this situation where we are having to try and protect what has been built over decades before it becomes a poisen chalice 

    IHT applies to business owners and non business owners alike.
    Yes of course Bob and I have no problem with that at all, I have never shirked at paying tax, however now that business value comes into the mix it leaves a lot of people like me that have a business which would be valued at far higher than my kids could hope to pay the tax on. The value of a business does not = cash available for inheritance tax in many cases 
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,780
    AndyG said:
    bobmunro said:
    AndyG said:
    allworknoplay said:
    AndyG said:
    allworknoplay said:
    I have worked hard to build up a reasonably successful company during my working life and as a result have also built up a significant future IHT bill as my reward. I have been working with a small wealth management company for a good few years and have been warm hand gifting (PETs) to my kids and grandkids. I am now thinking of converting my current limited company into a FIC, taking out some fairly substantial Whole of Life insurance and various trust structures to try to reduce the IHT liability and go someway to protecting what will be a fairly large inheritance for the benefit of the family. It has all got really complicated with lots of potential fees involved for everyone and if I am honest, I am not sure I am doing the right thing. I absolutely trust my advisors, but I can't help feeling I need someone to review the proposals and sense check it, so I don't blindly walk into something which I don't entirely understand. Any thoughts and advice on how to proceed would be very welcome. Cheers
    Hi mate. I’m in the same position and currently looking at the same options as you. Like you I can’t decide what way to go. The budget bringing company share values into play has really buggered things up hasn’t it. Spent my life building a business which will eventually potentially either bankrupt my kids or force the closure of a business that provides employment for a not insignificant number of people. The people making these decisions honestly have no brain 
    Are you getting professional advice? Personally I find it really worrying. Trying to make the right decisions which are best for the family. When I started my business in the late eighties it was all about working hard and doing well, but now I feel that things are stacked against business owners. The big one for me was the decision to include pensions into your estate for IHT. 
    Yes we are mate but even so it is not easy trying to reach the correct outcome for 1. the business. 2. The kids and 3. Me.

    My point was that like you it seems unfair that we should be put into this situation where we are having to try and protect what has been built over decades before it becomes a poisen chalice 

    IHT applies to business owners and non business owners alike.
    Yes of course Bob and I have no problem with that at all, I have never shirked at paying tax, however now that business value comes into the mix it leaves a lot of people like me that have a business which would be valued at far higher than my kids could hope to pay the tax on. The value of a business does not = cash available for inheritance tax in many cases 
    I assume it's no longer possible to just transfer the company to your children now?

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