UK to allow driverless cars from January.

bolloxbolder said:

Siv_in_Norfolk said:

The main concern I am seeing in the thread is re: jobs i.e. AI will replace human labour 

I can see how this would be a concern on a personal level

On a societal level, this COULD be seen much more positively if we design a society akin to people receiving Universal Basic Income while the AI and robots do the lion share of the work...

It's achievable and in the not too distant future, too

I recall an article where Roland said exactly this. Withering on about how only the best brains could foresee it happening.

I agree with him. 

This is in French. If interested you can tranlate it with AI!

https://www.7sur7.be/belgique/les-grands-economistes-belges-sont-partisans-du-revenu-universel~a4810c09/?referrer=https://www.google.com/

Surely too many problems to  be solved before this becomes the norm,  but I'd personally welcome just being delivered to my destination. 

Starinnaddick said:

American firm Waymo have been given the green light  to run driverless cars in London in 2026 including Lewisham and Greenwich areas. 

Had a great experience with them in San Francisco. Literally no different to ordering an Uber. More available if anything over there.

Only challenge is parking as they will find somewhere "safe" to park before stopping so you can end up a bit away from your destination.

So even the poor old Uber drivers are looking at losing their jobs now. What are they supposed to do next?

All I will say is that a computer can't do a worse job than some of the f**ktards I've seen on the road over the last few days.

The standard of driving in this country has dropped off a cliff in recent years. 

Wait until they are battling for road space with an impatient coked up lorry driver approaching the Blackwall Tunnel , or kids on electric bikes pulling wheelys towards them. 

Chunes said:

Gribbo said:

Apart from the obvious novelty factor, I struggle to see the real benefits of driverless cars. Trains, for example, stay on a fixed track and can be effectively controlled remotely, but cars operate in far more unpredictable environments. Without a responsible *chortle* driver actively making decisions, how can a car reliably navigate complex traffic situations? As far as I know, these motors will still include conventional driver seats, steering wheels, etc, so they aren’t “freeing up” space of any sort. On top of that, got a feeling these cars won’t be any cheaper than traditional driven vehicles, given the cost of the advanced sensors, software, and ongoing maintenance. 

These self-driving cars have been tested over millions of miles now and seem to be having accidents 80-90% less than human-driven cars.

Agree on the % decrease in automated vs human error

However, as a counter point, US roads are significantly different to UK roads (specifically in large, historic citiies like London).

An example, delivery robots were trialled in Greenwich for shopping and take aways.  The robots er on the side of caution, and as such, regularly got stuck crossing roads, spending a long time trying to navigate complex road conditions and human traffic.  The trial was abandoned and has not been implemeneted in any major city I am aware of. 

These same robots have been succesful in 'newer' residential areas (milton keynes and outskirts of Northampton) as the roads are quieter, often straight and grid like, much more like american roads.

If the % of autonomous cars was higher than human (e.g 51%) then it would probably work even in London as these cars 'communicate' with each other and work out the best outcome in a situation (maybe even based on who has paid the higher premium to be in a car).  Until this time, I think it is going to be slow progress, but progress I am very much behind (I hate driving)

Chunes said:

Gribbo said:

Apart from the obvious novelty factor, I struggle to see the real benefits of driverless cars. Trains, for example, stay on a fixed track and can be effectively controlled remotely, but cars operate in far more unpredictable environments. Without a responsible *chortle* driver actively making decisions, how can a car reliably navigate complex traffic situations? As far as I know, these motors will still include conventional driver seats, steering wheels, etc, so they aren’t “freeing up” space of any sort. On top of that, got a feeling these cars won’t be any cheaper than traditional driven vehicles, given the cost of the advanced sensors, software, and ongoing maintenance. 

These self-driving cars have been tested over millions of miles now and seem to be having accidents 80-90% less than human-driven cars.

To a certain extent yes I agree. However, I also think we are still in the proof of concept phase of autonomous vehicles. Companies are trying to prove they can make them work and be safe. The real benefits of them will come when the vast majority of cars on the road are autonomous and connected. Then vehicles can be faster and closer together at a much smaller risk, therefore reducing journey times and bringing safety improvements. In the long run we will be able to make systemic changes so that eventually road space, parking and other car centred infrastructure can be freed up for grass verges or tress etc. but all of those benefits are far away and not certain. I'm still of the view that trying to fit autonomous vehicles into our existing road structure is a bit dumb, if they are going to work we need to re-think how we move people and good around in an autonomous world and work towards that.

BalladMan said:

Chunes said:

Gribbo said:

Apart from the obvious novelty factor, I struggle to see the real benefits of driverless cars. Trains, for example, stay on a fixed track and can be effectively controlled remotely, but cars operate in far more unpredictable environments. Without a responsible *chortle* driver actively making decisions, how can a car reliably navigate complex traffic situations? As far as I know, these motors will still include conventional driver seats, steering wheels, etc, so they aren’t “freeing up” space of any sort. On top of that, got a feeling these cars won’t be any cheaper than traditional driven vehicles, given the cost of the advanced sensors, software, and ongoing maintenance. 

These self-driving cars have been tested over millions of miles now and seem to be having accidents 80-90% less than human-driven cars.

Agree on the % decrease in automated vs human error

However, as a counter point, US roads are significantly different to UK roads (specifically in large, historic citiies like London).

An example, delivery robots were trialled in Greenwich for shopping and take aways.  The robots er on the side of caution, and as such, regularly got stuck crossing roads, spending a long time trying to navigate complex road conditions and human traffic.  The trial was abandoned and has not been implemeneted in any major city I am aware of. 

These same robots have been succesful in 'newer' residential areas (milton keynes and outskirts of Northampton) as the roads are quieter, often straight and grid like, much more like american roads.

If the % of autonomous cars was higher than human (e.g 51%) then it would probably work even in London as these cars 'communicate' with each other and work out the best outcome in a situation (maybe even based on who has paid the higher premium to be in a car).  Until this time, I think it is going to be slow progress, but progress I am very much behind (I hate driving)

Good point... I'll always remember my first US road trip and being shocked at how it's just driving in a totally straight line for hours on end. Much less stressful than any UK trip I'd ever been on. 

I'll be interested to see if the safety numbers are still an improvement on human drivers in the UK. At the same time, I wonder how could they not be? It's just a series of logical decisions at the end of the day, which computers are very good at. 

I assume what will evolve will be traffic free roads in city centres aside from the autonomous cars. In other words remove the human element. 

jimmymelrose said:

Off_it said:

So even the poor old Uber drivers are looking at losing their jobs now. What are they supposed to do next?

This will be the question by 2028 for all office jobs. Any job sitting behind a desk with no direct contact necessary with another person will be lost within the next 30 months.

I bet I get lol-ed for this. I get lol-ed in real life conversation about this just as I did 3-5 years ago when I said that cars will be driverless by 2030.

AI will create some new jobs but nowhere near enough. Governments have a choice between universal income or civil unrest.

Just to clarify, what exactly do you mean by the bit I've highlighted above? 

What office jobs involve no contact whatsoever with another person?

Saw one being tested around Earls Court at 9 this morning, a bloke sat behind the wheel but not actually driving.