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After the Millwall game - club reply to CAST p34, further CAST response p45
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I literally googled 'the law on holding back away fans'
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Interestingly, the Google summary quotes a lot from this article from 2013. I'm sure lots of fans have been held back since then (most likely even ours)Elthamaddick said:I literally googled 'the law on holding back away fans'
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-united/latest-blades-news/fans-told-of-change-to-human-rights-law-fans-1858299#:~:text=Thank you for signing up,holding back supporters after games.0 -
FYI @PragueAddick and match goers, no special exit arrangements for Chelsea game
https://www.charltonafc.com/news/information-supporters-attending-chelsea-tie1 -
I’d say that’s good news for the next time we play Millwall at home - assuming no issues of course.0
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Good news that the club won’t hopefully make that mistake again by making sure it’s communicated loud and clear if what happened in September was ever to happen again.valleynick66 said:I’d say that’s good news for the next time we play Millwall at home - assuming no issues of course.No guarantees that the Police won’t do the same the next time will play Millwall at the Valley4 -
So what can we take from tonight and Met Police operation? Did they learn from Millwall?
Clearly they must've told the club all egress routes after the game would be open, the club communicated that before the match. Only for them to close the gates down Valley Grove keeping Chelsea back.
Charlton staff i spoke to didnt know the police were going to close those gates as I tried to get out there.
It is like they are making it up at times. Why do this for Chelsea and not Millwall then?1 -
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i think we know why - a millwall fan in the police making decisions - hopefully be rooted out by rowley and sacked asap2
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Police using their initiative?Markg2004 said:So what can we take from tonight and Met Police operation? Did they learn from Millwall?
Clearly they must've told the club all egress routes after the game would be open, the club communicated that before the match. Only for them to close the gates down Valley Grove keeping Chelsea back.
Charlton staff i spoke to didnt know the police were going to close those gates as I tried to get out there.
It is like they are making it up at times. Why do this for Chelsea and not Millwall then?
Did you see the Chelsea mob brought in via the pitch?0 -
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So is this a fair summary?:
- Chelsea were “held back” but outside the stadium
- they had no prior warning this would happen, so they have the hump (understandably, I’d say)
- but we were allowed to exit normallyI wasn’t there so it would be good to get some more comments, to ensure that whatever I say to Len Duvall about this reflects a consensus of views from those who were there.1 -
The police totally blocked off Valley Grove with vans and riot police. Walking up Floyd Road there was no gap to Valley Grove and you couldn’t see any Chelsea fans.PragueAddick said:So is this a fair summary?:
- Chelsea were “held back” but outside the stadium
- they had no prior warning this would happen, so they have the hump (understandably, I’d say)
- but we were allowed to exit normallyI wasn’t there so it would be good to get some more comments, to ensure that whatever I say to Len Duvall about this reflects a consensus of views from those who were there.The riot police were on the Floyd Road side as though stopping home fans going down Valley Grove.Usual horses up to the station.1 -
That was odd, the entrance via pitch side. Fans were jumping the fencing to get into the Jimmy Seed. There was also a ruckus and a fan kicked out before reaching the stand. You'd imagine there were allowed in as it was orderly on the most part, bar the struggle to get into the stand and the lone aggressor.Baldybonce said:
Police using their initiative?Markg2004 said:So what can we take from tonight and Met Police operation? Did they learn from Millwall?
Clearly they must've told the club all egress routes after the game would be open, the club communicated that before the match. Only for them to close the gates down Valley Grove keeping Chelsea back.
Charlton staff i spoke to didnt know the police were going to close those gates as I tried to get out there.
It is like they are making it up at times. Why do this for Chelsea and not Millwall then?
Did you see the Chelsea mob brought in via the pitch?
From my perspective that is pretty spot on. We were told via one of the official club videos that egression from the stadium post match would be as per normal league games. To me in the West Stand it is via the gates into Valley Grove that come out next to the Away support and up towards the station.PragueAddick said:So is this a fair summary?:
- Chelsea were “held back” but outside the stadium
- they had no prior warning this would happen, so they have the hump (understandably, I’d say)
- but we were allowed to exit normallyI wasn’t there so it would be good to get some more comments, to ensure that whatever I say to Len Duvall about this reflects a consensus of views from those who were there.
I went down the stairs and towards those gates as that is my normal route. Other fans were trying to do the same. I even walked past 3 or 4 stewards who did nothing to stop me or say it was closed off. I got to the end and then was told it is closed. I asked why and the lady in green hi-vis said 'we don't know why, i work for the club and we were told it was going to be open". Whilst not verbatim, it was a don't blame us, I wanted to go that way too vibe from her.
I exited via Floyd Road instead and where the fans join up on the way to the station there was a row of police, vans etc, kitted up too stopping Chelsea leaving. CAFC fans were shouting "why didn't you do this for Millwall" etc and some were pulled to aside and spoken too.
Whilst holding Chelsea back helped us get away quicker, we were told all normal routes open which they were not, and it seems Chelsea didn't expect to be held either.2 -
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The comments are interesting;shirty5 said:Going in was just as bad. About 4 turnstiles for 3000 people. I had my 5 year old son. It was a nightmare. That away end is a disaster waiting to happen.
Someone else said no loud hailers, indicating no risk assessment. Lack of comms again.
We have to be sure the stadium is safe and listen to these views and experiences. I am far from convinced the police and club are not sleep walking towards a disaster when the bigger games occur.2 -
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Chelsea Fans Held Back– A Sensible Decision
In my view, holding Chelsea supporters back after the match was a sensible and proportionate decision by the police.
One of my son’s friends arrived very late to the match and witnessed several scuffles along Floyd Road before kick-off. He described groups of Chelsea fans pulling scarves over their faces, looking for trouble with police snatch teams actively intervening to prevent trouble. Given that context, it was reassuring after the match to see the bottom of Floyd Road blocked off by police vans and a significant police presence in place, so Charlton fans could walk safely away from the ground.
Based on what I’ve seen over the years, Chelsea fans unfortunately have a reputation that puts them in the same bracket as Millwall, West Ham and Leeds when it comes to crowd trouble. From personal experience going back to the Battle of the Bridge, to the damage caused at The Valley after Charlton beat chelsea 4–0, and other incidents involving Chelsea supporters, and their hooligan reputation it’s not hard to understand why this precaution was taken.
Hopefully, the Met Police will apply the same approach when Millwall next visit The Valley, allowing home supporters to leave as normal while managing the away end appropriately.
That said, I do have some sympathy for Chelsea fans regarding what appears to have been a lack of communication. It would have been far better if an announcement had been made in advance explaining that they would be held back. Alternatively, the use of the large mobile traffic information boards that are often deployed for events would have helped manage expectations and reduce frustration.
Clear communication benefits everyone and can go a long way towards keeping post-match situations calm and safe.
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If the police had advised Chelsea fans in advance that they would be held back, anyone intent on causing trouble would have left well before the end.
It's not rocket science.
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away fans getting held in - been part of football ever since - police discretion - home fans being held in - total and utter nonsenseCovered End said:If the police had advised Chelsea fans in advance that they would be held back, anyone intent on causing trouble would have left well before the end.
It's not rocket science.10 -
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Part of the problem is they weren’t held in they were held on a street so had no access to toilets etc3
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There's no toilets at the station or anywhere else, If you need them urgently you go before you leave the ground.Off_it said:
Had they locked the gates to the ground behind them then?fenaddick said:Part of the problem is they weren’t held in they were held on a street so had no access to toilets etc0 -
From what I’ve read they were pretty packed in so if you’re near the front it doesn’t matter if the gate is locked or not, you aren’t making your way back through the crowdOff_it said:
Had they locked the gates to the ground behind them then?fenaddick said:Part of the problem is they weren’t held in they were held on a street so had no access to toilets etc1 -
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It was very sensible to hold the Chelsea fans back, as per earlier post.
Surely in future high risk matches, the stadium announcer at around 85-90 mins informs away fans they are being held back and its also put on the big screen. Fans can decide to wait in the road or stay in their seats with toilets etc. Or just tell them in advance with clear instructions that no fans will be allowed out of the ground once they have entered, till home fans have left and expect 30mins delay.....simple surely?
I have zero sympathy for Chelsea, Millwall or other clubs with hooligan fans being held back they have caused chaos for decades and if they are inconvencied so be it.
I hope MET Police and our club sort out communication with away fans for all future high risk matches, so our supporters are free to leave safety and without any disrupt, exactly as it should be.3 -
Had a text this morning from a mate who supports Chelsea - he wasn't at the game - saying there is a lot of moaning from Chelsea fans doing the rounds about being held back after the match.0
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Chelsea Supporters Trust are generally pretty good and well organised. In the Twitter feeds I’ve found their ex-chair from the Olympic Stadium time, Tim Rolls, and asked him for a contact to the current board. It seems to me that we have something in common with the Chelsea fans here - the Met imposing last minute restrictions which neither club were aware of and therefore unable to communicate effectively to fans. That’s a common message both STs can take to Rowley, in our case via Len Duvall, maybe Chelsea have their own friendly LAM.I wonder if the same commander was in charge for this and the Wall game…2
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We all know what the deal is at The Den in 2 wkds time, we will be held back for 30mins minimum whilst our "friendly" Millwall neighbours disperse. Why the Met police can't work with home and away club to communicate these arrangements after the match.....just seems so basic?
Chelsea fans should have been told in advance that they would be held back for a minimum of 30mins and no fans allowed to leave early.1 -
You think this was a high risk match, why?TootingRedArmy said:It was very sensible to hold the Chelsea fans back, as per earlier post.
Surely in future high risk matches, the stadium announcer at around 85-90 mins informs away fans they are being held back and its also put on the big screen. Fans can decide to wait in the road or stay in their seats with toilets etc. Or just tell them in advance with clear instructions that no fans will be allowed out of the ground once they have entered, till home fans have left and expect 30mins delay.....simple surely?
I have zero sympathy for Chelsea, Millwall or other clubs with hooligan fans being held back they have caused chaos for decades and if they are inconvencied so be it.
I hope MET Police and our club sort out communication with away fans for all future high risk matches, so our supporters are free to leave safety and without any disrupt, exactly as it should be.2
