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Vapes

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  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 9,859
    ElliotCAFC said:
    Leroy Ambrose said:
    ElliotCAFC said:
    Leroy Ambrose said:
    ElliotCAFC said:
    I'd try and go down another route if I were you, mate. I know a lot of people (myself included) who switched from cigarettes to vaping and it's arguably worse. At least a cigarette is somewhat natural, albeit very harmful. Vapes are unregulated, often filled with chemicals coming straight out of a Chinese factory. Worst of all you never put them down, vaping constantly and furthering the addiction. 

    I'd have a look at nicotine pens, or even better, get on the patches. I've switched to Snus myself, which my lungs are very grateful for, but this too is rife with health risks. 
    Is this for real? 🤣
    Not sure what's funny about that, I said arguably? 

    People have been smoking tobacco leaves for 10,000+ years, we know all about them. Vapes are relatively unknown and untested.
    I'm not sure you're aware of this - but cigarettes are proven to cause cancer. Vapes... aren't.

    Here's a couple of handy screenshots for you

    I searched 'how many people die from cancer related to cigarettes each year'



    I searched 'how many people die from cancer related to vapes each year'

    There aren't any - but I did find this interesting titbit:


    Whilst there clearly isn't a negligible risk here - you're talking about someone who is addicted to cigarettes, which are 50% likely to kill him in the long run. Explain to me how vaping is likely to be worse for him in the long run?

    Jesus Christ we're living in an age where almost all of the world's knowledge is at your fingertips in an instant. How is it possible we're still churning out ignorance like this?

    Good luck on your journey Karim. God speed. I think I can say with some level of confidence that vapes are not as dangerous as fags.
    Mate, there’s really no need to be so combative. I never stated vaping will likely be worse long term - I said it’s arguably worse, which is an important distinction and depends on if the goal is to eventually quit. 

    This isn’t just about cancer. One issue is how easy it is to vape constantly - indoors, in bed, at work, while you shit. That level of nonstop use doesn’t happen with cigarettes, and even if you avoid lung cancer, you can still end up with plenty of other respiratory issues.

    There’s no long-term data on vaping, and anecdotally, most people I know who switched became much more addicted to nicotine.

    Gun to my head: is vaping better than cigarettes? Yes. Would I recommend vaping to quit smoking? No - you're just replacing one addiction for another. I'd recommend nicotine patches or a nicorette inhalator
    My husband was initially prescribed the nicorette inhaler but it did nothing for him. The patches did work to a certain extent but he still felt the need to vape, although a lot less than when he smoked. 


  • Karim_myBagheri
    Karim_myBagheri Posts: 13,458
    Right you people are fucking annoying.. should I get a vape or not?! Please someone help... Idk what to do any more.. 
  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 9,859
    Karim_myBagheri said:
    Right you people are fucking annoying.. should I get a vape or not?! Please someone help... Idk what to do any more.. 
    I can only go by my husband's experience. Why not try the NHS Smokefree programme.
  • Big C
    Big C Posts: 192
    Karim_myBagheri said:
    Right you people are fucking annoying.. should I get a vape or not?! Please someone help... Idk what to do any more.. 

    Vapes are proven to be the most effective method to quit smoking (Cochrane do extensive research into this if you are interested in seeing long term quit rates of vapes vs NRTs), so I'd encourage it in order to get off the cigs, yes.

    Just find your local service here, or google your local "Swap to Stop". They'll advise you on what product suits you best, where to get them, how they work etc, and as per ME14's posts above they'll probably give you a free re-usable vape starter kit so you likely won't even need to pay for it.


  • Karim_myBagheri
    Karim_myBagheri Posts: 13,458
    ME14addick said:
    Karim_myBagheri said:
    Right you people are fucking annoying.. should I get a vape or not?! Please someone help... Idk what to do any more.. 
    I can only go by my husband's experience. Why not try the NHS Smokefree programme.
    I was saying the above very tongue in cheek, just I'm now not sure about vapes but I think they could be a way of getting me of cigs and then from there patches and other things come into it. I haven't spoken to the NHS but online they say vapes are one of the best ways to go about it. I still don't know if they are any different to nicotine pens though which was mentioned before. 
  • PrincessFiona
    PrincessFiona Posts: 5,560
    Karim_myBagheri said:

    Been a smoker for nearly 20 years. Health and costs mean I really need to actually do something about this dreadful habit. I really can't see myself giving up completely as not really ready for that just yet. So going down what so many others have done and that's the vape route. Has that worked for others on here?

    Is there any recommendations of vapes? want something that has nicotine and kinda taste like tobacco I guess so not too much change. Plus something that lasts a while. Don't really want to keep getting disposable ones.

    I used one to give up completely years ago. The best thing was if I had a craving, I could just have one, maybe 2 drags at a time - much more practical than having a single drag of a cigarette to quell the craving. And I only used it when I had a significant craving. So I only used it infrequently to start with and weaned myself down on the number of times I had the odd drag. I got one with nicotine then gradually decreased the amount of nicotine.

    Good luck! I really credit having a/the occasional vape for helping me to give up. I have not smoked anything for years and feel so much better, smell a lot better and saved lots of £s. 
  • Off_it
    Off_it Posts: 29,115
    edited January 20
    Hypnotist

    Get them to convince you you support a successful football club while you're at it.
  • Karim_myBagheri
    Karim_myBagheri Posts: 13,458
    Off_it said:
    Hypnotist

    Get them to convince you you support a successful football club while you're at it.
    Tried one but apparently cos I'm cynical? it didn't work. A friend of mine got off cigs from using one though so for others that can work. 
  • Big C
    Big C Posts: 192
    Karim_myBagheri said:
    ME14addick said:
    Karim_myBagheri said:
    Right you people are fucking annoying.. should I get a vape or not?! Please someone help... Idk what to do any more.. 
    I can only go by my husband's experience. Why not try the NHS Smokefree programme.
    I was saying the above very tongue in cheek, just I'm now not sure about vapes but I think they could be a way of getting me of cigs and then from there patches and other things come into it. I haven't spoken to the NHS but online they say vapes are one of the best ways to go about it. I still don't know if they are any different to nicotine pens though which was mentioned before. 
    I'm assuming it was just referring to a vape pen, so same thing. Vapes come in different types/sizes, from small pen/stick styles with integrated rechargable batteries up to big mods & tanks with removable batteries. They pretty much all do the same thing in essence, just differing power/vapour production - pens/sticks evaporate high strength nicotine liquid in small quanitites (less vapour, but more potent), bigger units evaporate lower strength liquid but in large quantities (more vapour, but less potent). Speak to your local smoking cessation service as they can talk you through the options to find the best style to suit you.

  • southamptonaddick
    southamptonaddick Posts: 4,119
    I stopped smoking 8 years ago and started vaping.
    I haven't had a cigarette since. 
    Within a few months I didn't get out of breath when walking, my taste and sense of smell improved and I have saved a shitload of money which was the reason I gave up fags. 
    I still vape now but a lot less than when I first started and I will eventually give up vaping as well. Going by my own experience I would personally recommend vaping to help you stop smoking. 
    But make sure you use reputable shops or companies and not cheap shit from market stalls. 

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  • Karim_myBagheri
    Karim_myBagheri Posts: 13,458
    Thanks all, think I need to go to a stop smoking service (which I hadn't even thought about) to get what would be right for me. 

    I'll let you know what they say then we can see what they think about vapes compared to cigs. It sounds like it will just end up being what's least worse for you and go from there. 
  • ValleyGary
    ValleyGary Posts: 38,300
    Karim_myBagheri said:
    Right you people are fucking annoying.. should I get a vape or not?! Please someone help... Idk what to do any more.. 
    banana or cola flavour are banging
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,194
    edited January 21
    Karim_myBagheri said:
    ME14addick said:
    Karim_myBagheri said:
    Right you people are fucking annoying.. should I get a vape or not?! Please someone help... Idk what to do any more.. 
    I can only go by my husband's experience. Why not try the NHS Smokefree programme.
    I was saying the above very tongue in cheek, just I'm now not sure about vapes but I think they could be a way of getting me of cigs and then from there patches and other things come into it. I haven't spoken to the NHS but online they say vapes are one of the best ways to go about it. I still don't know if they are any different to nicotine pens though which was mentioned before. 
    I think it will massively depend on the quality of the vape too, I have 100% noticed a difference in the vapes here since they were made illegal, it being a totally unregulated market should definitely be a concern. 

    There must be loads of proper dodgy ones around.

    It's impossible to know at this point which is worse for you, quoting studies seems a little premature when vapes have hardly been around for very long and you don't need to go too far back in history to see doctors advertising tobacco. Clearly the best option is not to inhale anything into your body at all, but all us addicts know exactly how hard that can be to achieve and I certainly feel a lot better when vaping compared to smoking.
  • iainment
    iainment Posts: 8,104
    The stench of vapes is more anti social than smoking in my opinion. They seem to activate my asthma when I am having to experience second hand vaping.
    They should be banned.

  • DamoNorthStand
    DamoNorthStand Posts: 11,508
    The subject of smoking is so hard for me after seeing the impact on my mum.

    She smoked from her teenaged years up to her death at 56 years old from small cell lung cancer. Which spread to her brain.

    It was undeniably smoking that killed her, and took away a mother from me and a grandmother from my children. Losing her tore apart my Dad who went off the rails completely.

    It was a horrendous death for her. And I remember her crying in the hospice saying she wishes she could turn back the clock to the first time a friend at school shoved a fag in her hand and said ‘try it’.

    Her words were ‘I took a stupid gamble with my life and lost’.

    Dont do it. Don’t take any unnecessary risks with your life. 

    Vapes I am quite sure aren’t gonna be doing you any good. I know a few therapists helping people give up and as an addiction that can be. route to go down.

    You don’t want to end up like my mum 
  • Mendonca In Asdas
    Mendonca In Asdas Posts: 22,761
    edited January 21
    Having been on the receiving ends of my dad having 2 heart bypass’s, him packing up work at 50, due to him and mum smoking 40 a day each.

    And losing my sister and brother in law within a year of each other in their mid 50’s, I hate smoking with an absolute passion.

    i just find the whole thing so bloody selfish, and has caused untold self inflicted misery and poverty, with knock on consequences across the family.

    So whether vaping is a better alternative, I don’t know, will probably come out further down the line.

    Best advice I’d say is go and see a doctor and get help, why do you need this rubbish?


  • Carter
    Carter Posts: 14,410
    Smoking, like drinking whiskey is mad. Imagine both are not a thing and someone gave you a cig and said "try that" same for whiskey

    You'd think they were trying to poison you! 

    Stimulants are a fucker, they get you. Pint after work, cig after shagging, performing a task, taking a break, whatever. 

    Anyway, vapes are definitely not going to be doing good stuff for you, they are less bad (i think thats what the NHS says) than smoking and a very good way of stopping that. 
  • SID
    SID Posts: 276
    I used to be what was called a social smoker ie just sparking up when I was out and about having a beer. I changed to vapes and to be honest I’m now like a baby with a dummy. I’m vapng at home, at work even vaped on a packed train once and I honestly didn’t realise I was doing it and almost ended up in a tear up over it. I will say though vaping doesn’t make me feel as shit as smoking did the day after. 
  • Boom
    Boom Posts: 1,698
    Karim_myBagheri said:
    Off_it said:
    Hypnotist

    Get them to convince you you support a successful football club while you're at it.
    Tried one but apparently cos I'm cynical? it didn't work. A friend of mine got off cigs from using one though so for others that can work. 
    Maybe try a different one. I smoked for over 20 years and was also cynical of it working so maybe your one was just shit and was putting the blame on you! Mine did the trick after one session. Fell off the wagon slightly a couple of times and then went back to see him for a "top up" and was sorted again.
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,718
    edited January 22
    Vaping v Smoking. Both are doing your lungs no favours but at this point without decades of data to interrogate it’s likely that vaping is the least harmful of the two. Likely not certain. If vaping gets you off fags then great but I’m really not convinced it’s as benign as some are hoping. Sucking poison into your lungs every few minutes doesn’t sound like a good idea to me.

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  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 9,859
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Vaping v Smoking. Both are doing your lungs no favours but at this point without decades of data to interrogate it’s likely that vaping is the least harmful of the two. Likely not certain. If vaping gets you off fags then great but I’m really not convinced it’s as benign as some are hoping. Sucking poison into your lungs every few minutes doesn’t sound like a good idea to me.
    They should have only been used as an aid to stop smoking. We now have millions more addicted to vapes, that wouldn't have taken up smoking.
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,194
    ME14addick said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Vaping v Smoking. Both are doing your lungs no favours but at this point without decades of data to interrogate it’s likely that vaping is the least harmful of the two. Likely not certain. If vaping gets you off fags then great but I’m really not convinced it’s as benign as some are hoping. Sucking poison into your lungs every few minutes doesn’t sound like a good idea to me.
    They should have only been used as an aid to stop smoking. We now have millions more addicted to vapes, that wouldn't have taken up smoking.
    How can you possibly know that to be true?
  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 9,859
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    ME14addick said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Vaping v Smoking. Both are doing your lungs no favours but at this point without decades of data to interrogate it’s likely that vaping is the least harmful of the two. Likely not certain. If vaping gets you off fags then great but I’m really not convinced it’s as benign as some are hoping. Sucking poison into your lungs every few minutes doesn’t sound like a good idea to me.
    They should have only been used as an aid to stop smoking. We now have millions more addicted to vapes, that wouldn't have taken up smoking.
    How can you possibly know that to be true?
    Because there is plenty of evidence, magnify what has happened in the UK across the world and you have millions now addicted to vapes, who would not have started smoking.

    https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2024/oct/one-million-people-who-never-regularly-smoked-now-vape-england
  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 9,859
    edited January 23
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    ME14addick said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Vaping v Smoking. Both are doing your lungs no favours but at this point without decades of data to interrogate it’s likely that vaping is the least harmful of the two. Likely not certain. If vaping gets you off fags then great but I’m really not convinced it’s as benign as some are hoping. Sucking poison into your lungs every few minutes doesn’t sound like a good idea to me.
    They should have only been used as an aid to stop smoking. We now have millions more addicted to vapes, that wouldn't have taken up smoking.
    How can you possibly know that to be true?
    The introduction of vapes with lots of fancy flavours designed to draw young people into using vapes, was cynical and despicable.

    They have helped my husband to stop smoking and at the moment are the lesser of two evils. They should have been licenced for that reason only.

    It took many years for the true effect of smoking on the body to be revealed, vapes haven't been here long, so we don't know their true effect.


  • andipandi
    andipandi Posts: 1,415
    Karim_myBagheri said:
    Right you people are fucking annoying.. should I get a vape or not?! Please someone help... Idk what to do any more.. 
    Yes, for one, you wont be inhaling massive amounts of carbon monoxide, as e-liquid is heated and not combusted, as it is, with smoking. Think harm reduction, something the anti vape zealots or even the W.H.O never like to talk about, in fact many of those folks pedal lies about vaping being worse then smoking, which it most certainly isn't.  


    Consider joining a forum like Planet of the Vapes, plenty of help, advice and knowledge over there

      https://forum.planetofthevapes.co.uk/

    Also have a look through the news articles

     https://www.planetofthevapes.co.uk/news
  • andipandi
    andipandi Posts: 1,415


    How can you possibly know that to be true?
    Because there is plenty of evidence, magnify what has happened in the UK across the world and you have millions now addicted to vapes, who would not have started smoking.

    https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2024/oct/one-million-people-who-never-regularly-smoked-now-vape-england
    Cant take that report seriously when the authors describe a non smoker as in f below

    Our analyses focused primarily on respondents who reported never having regularly smoked tobacco. This question was assessed by asking participants which of a list of statements best applied to them: (a) I smoke cigarettes (including hand-rolled) every day; (b) I smoke cigarettes (including hand-rolled), but not every day; (c) I do not smoke cigarettes at all, but I do smoke tobacco of some kind (eg, pipe, cigar, or shisha); (d) I have stopped smoking completely in the last year; (e) I stopped smoking completely more than a year ago; or (f) I have never been a smoker (ie, smoked for a year or more). Those who responded (f) were considered never-regular-smokers and formed our core analytic sample.

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(24)00183-X/fulltext
  • Croydon
    Croydon Posts: 13,101
    edited January 23
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    ME14addick said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Vaping v Smoking. Both are doing your lungs no favours but at this point without decades of data to interrogate it’s likely that vaping is the least harmful of the two. Likely not certain. If vaping gets you off fags then great but I’m really not convinced it’s as benign as some are hoping. Sucking poison into your lungs every few minutes doesn’t sound like a good idea to me.
    They should have only been used as an aid to stop smoking. We now have millions more addicted to vapes, that wouldn't have taken up smoking.
    How can you possibly know that to be true?
    It's pretty obvious to see when walking around tbf. Millions is probably OTT, but there's definitely been an impact from disposable vapes in sweetshop flavours
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,194
    ME14addick said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    ME14addick said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Vaping v Smoking. Both are doing your lungs no favours but at this point without decades of data to interrogate it’s likely that vaping is the least harmful of the two. Likely not certain. If vaping gets you off fags then great but I’m really not convinced it’s as benign as some are hoping. Sucking poison into your lungs every few minutes doesn’t sound like a good idea to me.
    They should have only been used as an aid to stop smoking. We now have millions more addicted to vapes, that wouldn't have taken up smoking.
    How can you possibly know that to be true?
    Because there is plenty of evidence, magnify what has happened in the UK across the world and you have millions now addicted to vapes, who would not have started smoking.

    https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2024/oct/one-million-people-who-never-regularly-smoked-now-vape-england
    You said they never would have smoked, not never have smoked, they are two very different statements.  We all could have said “I’ve never smoked” at some point 
  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 9,859
    edited January 23
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    ME14addick said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    ME14addick said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Vaping v Smoking. Both are doing your lungs no favours but at this point without decades of data to interrogate it’s likely that vaping is the least harmful of the two. Likely not certain. If vaping gets you off fags then great but I’m really not convinced it’s as benign as some are hoping. Sucking poison into your lungs every few minutes doesn’t sound like a good idea to me.
    They should have only been used as an aid to stop smoking. We now have millions more addicted to vapes, that wouldn't have taken up smoking.
    How can you possibly know that to be true?
    Because there is plenty of evidence, magnify what has happened in the UK across the world and you have millions now addicted to vapes, who would not have started smoking.

    https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2024/oct/one-million-people-who-never-regularly-smoked-now-vape-england
    You said they never would have smoked, not never have smoked, they are two very different statements.  We all could have said “I’ve never smoked” at some point 
    You're nit picking as usual, it's pretty obvious what I meant and this is what I said originally, quite easy to understand:

    They should have only been used as an aid to stop smoking. We now have millions more addicted to vapes, that wouldn't have taken up smoking.

     The proliferation of vape shops alone is a very good pointer to the fact that vaping has grown massively, at a time when smoking has declined.
  • ME14addick
    ME14addick Posts: 9,859
    edited January 23
    andipandi said:


    How can you possibly know that to be true?
    Because there is plenty of evidence, magnify what has happened in the UK across the world and you have millions now addicted to vapes, who would not have started smoking.

    https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2024/oct/one-million-people-who-never-regularly-smoked-now-vape-england
    Cant take that report seriously when the authors describe a non smoker as in f below

    Our analyses focused primarily on respondents who reported never having regularly smoked tobacco. This question was assessed by asking participants which of a list of statements best applied to them: (a) I smoke cigarettes (including hand-rolled) every day; (b) I smoke cigarettes (including hand-rolled), but not every day; (c) I do not smoke cigarettes at all, but I do smoke tobacco of some kind (eg, pipe, cigar, or shisha); (d) I have stopped smoking completely in the last year; (e) I stopped smoking completely more than a year ago; or (f) I have never been a smoker (ie, smoked for a year or more). Those who responded (f) were considered never-regular-smokers and formed our core analytic sample.

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(24)00183-X/fulltext
    More evidence that people who would not have smoked, but have taken up vaping:

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666776224000917

    Summary

    Background

    There has been a rapid rise in disposable (single-use) e-cigarette vaping among young adults in England since June 2021 (leading to a planned ban on these products). We examined how this has affected population trends in current (i) vaping, (ii) tobacco smoking, and (iii) inhaled nicotine use.

    Methods

    We used data from a nationally-representative monthly repeat cross-sectional survey of adults (≥18) in England (n = 132,252; July-2016–May-2023). Using interrupted time-series analyses (segmented logistic regression), we estimated yearly trends in current tobacco smoking, vaping, and inhaled nicotine use (smoking and/or vaping) before (‘pre-disposables’) and after June-2021 (‘post-disposables’), stratified by age group (18 to 24, 25 to 44, 45 and over). We also examined trends in daily use and in vaping among never-smokers.

    Findings

    Pre-disposables, vaping and smoking prevalence had been stable or declining across all age groups. However, post-disposables, the odds of current vaping increased by 99% per year among 18 to 24-year-olds (odds ratio [OR] = 1.99; 95% confidence interval [CI] = 1.71 to 2.31), compared with 39% (OR = 1.39; 95% CI = 1.26 to 1.52) in 25 to 44-year-olds and 23% (OR = 1.23; 95% CI = 1.12 to 1.35) in those aged 45 or older. Smoking rates continued to decline — albeit modestly — in 18 to 24-year-olds (OR = 0.88, 95% CI = 0.77 to 1.00) and 25 to 44-year-olds (OR = 0.93, 95% CI = 0.86 to 1.00), but increased among those aged 45 or older (OR = 1.12, 95% CI = 1.05 to 1.20). As a result, post-disposables, the overall prevalence of inhaled nicotine use increased across all age groups. Trends were similar for daily use, but post-disposables increases in vaping were greatest among people who had never regularly smoked (e.g., 18 to 24-year-olds: OR = 2.50, 95% CI = 1.82 to 3.43).

    Interpretation

    Since disposable vapes started becoming popular in England, historic declines in nicotine use have reversed. Now, nicotine use appears to be rising, driven primarily by sharp increases in vaping among young people. Smoking declines have been most pronounced in age groups with the largest increases in vaping.

    Funding

    Cancer Research UK.

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