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Squad Morale
CafcSteve
Posts: 854
The below comment probably says it all:
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Comments
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Or it’s one player’s view… a player who wasn’t starting and wasn’t happy about that. Two sides to every story.27
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What does it say?CafcSteve said:The below comment probably says it all:
He’s clearly saying here he was frustrated at not being considered good enough for a first team starting spot at Charlton.
Jesus wept14 -
Maybe this will do us some good as well then... Our own squad morale cant have been great if Olaofe and Apter were stinking up the place, because they had the wrong attitude to not being involved more.6
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Comments from Olafoe and Apter suggest to me that players don’t feel involved with the squad if they’re not playing games.
Suppose that’s likely to happen but maybe something like this is behind the fall-out between Jones & Doc.3 -
This will happen at every club all over the land. It’s not special to CharltonCafcSteve said:Comments from Olafoe and Apter suggest to me that players don’t feel involved with the squad if they’re not playing games.
Suppose that’s likely to happen but maybe something like this is behind the fall-out between Jones & Doc.11 -
No one knows, could be either, bad attitudes by the players or a manager who has no ability to keep players not playing feeling part of the squad. Bottom line when form and results drop off a cliff no one is happy and that is apparent right now. We’ll see if the chopping and changing works out, I hope it does but I’m not convinced, we’ve moved on players not involved much but whether their replacements are an upgrade is unknown.0
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I wouldn’t read too much into that . It’s the sort of thing a player would say when going back to his old club but having said that, squad morale probably is shot after that shambolic performance against Millwall6
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For all his traits, Jones doesn't seem to be a great man manager overall, I can easily see him rubbing people up the wrong way, and if those people are being left out of the side I can see it affecting them.
Whatever it is, Jones has alluded to it a couple of times in recent months anyway about things behind the scenes and stuff, and with the Docherty situation I don't doubt that the morale in the camp has dropped.
It's now on Jones and the rest of the management, and whoever is in the first team squad from 3rd Jan onwards to rally together and pull us through to the end of the season2 -
says absolutely nothing at all, of course he's gonna say that9
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Lets be honest he will be as disappointed with his Charlton career as us.
Nothing has suggested to me that he's good enough for this level when he has had opportunity's, so he might not be happy but Jones is right in his view to date.
Hopefully a few goals and a run of games and back next season with renewed confidence4 -
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I mean, I found him hard to love after he missed that chance at Coventry too
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I said in another thread I don’t get the impression Tanto fully believes he belongs at Championship level.He’s clearly very comfortable at Stockport where he’ll get plenty of game time. He had to really fight to get that here but he hasn’t stood out in any striker role.
Some said when he signed he’s better at beating players than TC, but we’ve never really seen that from him. Not a natural finisher either, and neither is he a target man.
Obviously has the pace, strength and work rate to be a threat in L1 and L2, but he’s lacking that bit extra to get regular game time at this level.7 -
If he is such a pain to be managed by, its surprising that one of the many complaints on here about him is that he only signs his old players.sam3110 said:For all his traits, Jones doesn't seem to be a great man manager overall, I can easily see him rubbing people up the wrong way, and if those people are being left out of the side I can see it affecting them.
Whatever it is, Jones has alluded to it a couple of times in recent months anyway about things behind the scenes and stuff, and with the Docherty situation I don't doubt that the morale in the camp has dropped.
It's now on Jones and the rest of the management, and whoever is in the first team squad from 3rd Jan onwards to rally together and pull us through to the end of the season8 -
Maybe if he understood the offside rules he’d have got more minutes.5
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Rankin Costello (who I don’t especially rate) and Karoy Anderson are a couple of examples of players not seeing much action previously. They waited for a chance, and then got picked and did their thing.
We have other examples.
Strictly personally I could see the positives in Tanto, but for some reason I saw Apter like Charlie Kirk, and wonder about the gap between Ahadme and Kelman.
Our recruitment has been rather mixed, if every player we sign is at the level of Bell in their own positions then things would be better.
I have said many times that we should only recruit markedly better players than our home grown ones because home grown ones haven’t cost a transfer fee.
Heading for bunker now.4 -
I can understand why he feels he was under valued. He had a couple of games but not much then gets pushed out again.
With a bit more freedom he could become a decent winger who an use strength and pace to pass a man. End product who knows..
NJ wants them to defend. I'm not sure the likes of Tanto and Apter are trusted by NJ for that role so he freezes them out.0 -
I wonder as we are pretty much a league 1 side going up is a challenge which some of the squad would look forward to others maybe apprehensive.
Then as the real slog comes in during the winter months certain players start to feel maybe this is a bit too much for them which then leads to a negative outlook for the team as a whole.
Bit like taking on a promotion at work or extra responsibility and pressure from that can really drag you down. Your skills might not be suitable to do it. Maybe not at that time.
That's where you need support.
I don't think there's enough strong players to support others as they are also not sure if the skill or ability to be in this league and NJ is trying but is also struggling. Maybe a player like Cody could help as he's been there.1 -
Yep, Tanto's message is a strong indicator that morale is on a sharp decline. Issues with Docherty likely corroborate this. Blaming the individual or assuming/ waiting to see if there's 'another side to the story' is to ignore a developing bad culture. Would be surprised if he comes back. Those are strong words. It's money down the drain too.2
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The thing that concerns me is Greg Docherty seems like a consummate professional, and a real example to the group. In front of the camera he comes across brilliantly, and there are plenty of gestures he has made with players during celebrations etc which show his character.It says a lot that he has fallen out with Jones, and I can imagine it has unsettled the squad.4
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I have said it before and will say it again, sign league one players and that is where Charlton will be next season. Whoever signed them needs putting up against a wall and shooting a knighthood. Now we are signing more league one players who cannot get into a league one team to replace league one players who are not bad enough to play in a NJ side. I always thought the idea was to loan players from better clubs which seems to be what we are doing with the keeper from Gateshead.0
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Not in such a short space of time though, no squad spirit ends up with barely any wins in many games. Jones whole style of play surely needs people to run through walls for others.CafcSteve said:Comments from Olafoe and Apter suggest to me that players don’t feel involved with the squad if they’re not playing games.
Suppose that’s likely to happen but maybe something like this is behind the fall-out between Jones & Doc.0 -
Has docherty definitely fallen out with jones? Can someone link the source?3
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Seems unlikely, I would have thought another club would definitely have been in for him by now.TheHerminator said:Has docherty definitely fallen out with jones? Can someone link the source?0 -
He was supposedly going off to Wycombe before the Knibbs injuryletthegoodtimesroll said:
Seems unlikely, I would have thought another club would definitely have been in for him by now.TheHerminator said:Has docherty definitely fallen out with jones? Can someone link the source?0 -
Good question.TheHerminator said:Has docherty definitely fallen out with jones? Can someone link the source?
I’m happy to be corrected, but it appears to me that this ‘fall out’ is being talked about on here as if it’s a fact rather than a rumour.5 -
It's been said by enough people on here with decent track records that I would expect it to be true there's been a falling out. It's taken on a bit of a life of its own since then though, the current narrative forming is that he took Olaofe and Apter's complaints to Jones and was punished for it which I don't think is based in any fact at the moment. I would have assumed he went to Jones to complain about being in and out of the team and received back an unflattering review from Jones, but again that's just an assumption. I'm sure if it carries on we'll hear more before too long5
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“The secret of being a good manager is to keep the six players who hate you away from the five who are undecided.”
Jock Stein
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What I still struggle to understand is if they've had a true falling out... Why was Docherty there, with the squad, in the dressing room on Saturday as the Sky Cameras showed him arriving with the rest of the team... He just didn't make the 20-man squad... Whether thats because of the falling out, who knows, but if they have really fallen out... Why is Docherty still part of these squads, even as a backup. Usually in "normal" circumstances I'd expect the player to be completely frozen outlordromford said:
Good question.TheHerminator said:Has docherty definitely fallen out with jones? Can someone link the source?
I’m happy to be corrected, but it appears to me that this ‘fall out’ is being talked about on here as if it’s a fact rather than a rumour.0 -
I think people are overthinking things. We're in a bad run of form, morale will drop. Some players don't let it effect them, some players can self motivate, some players respond to management/coaching, some players spiral.
Players who aren't getting game time will feel particularly hard done by as they'll feel they should be given a chance to change things, but we have no choice but to trust the management team who see them day in day out.
Docherty is an odd one in a way, as he doesn't appear to be the kind of character who's head would drop, but maybe the combination of poor results and being dropped has been too much for him. In fairness to Jones, I can't see what Docherty brings to the team. He's a decent leader, but just doesn't have any impact on games. He doesn't cover the ground of an Anderson, doesn't provide to control/cover of a Coventry, doesn't provide the goal threat of a Carey or Knibbs, so what does he actually do?
I think out biggest problem has been a lack of control in midfield. Our strikers are feeding off scraps, and our defence is overworked with the ball always coming straight back. The midfield need to take a long hard look at themselves, and if the result of that is some of them throwing their toys out the pram then we really don't need them, either on the pitch or in the club effecting morale.
I think this window has gone reasonably well, but we still need a central midfielder who can offer some sort of control and game craft. Someone who can actually put their foot on the ball and pick a pass, to give our forwards something more to feed on and to give our defence a breather.
If nothing else the new faces around the training ground will raise morale a bit and those new players won't have the weight of recent results dragging them down.
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Enough people on here said that L Jones was off this window too. That wasn't based on anything other than conjectureGarrymanilow said:It's been said by enough people on here with decent track records that I would expect it to be true there's been a falling out. It's taken on a bit of a life of its own since then though, the current narrative forming is that he took Olaofe and Apter's complaints to Jones and was punished for it which I don't think is based in any fact at the moment. I would have assumed he went to Jones to complain about being in and out of the team and received back an unflattering review from Jones, but again that's just an assumption. I'm sure if it carries on we'll hear more before too long
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