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New formation / shape needed?
Comments
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Changing the formation RIGHT NOW would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and any problems it hypothetically solves would be negated by new problems that it causes.
That's not to say that Jones doesn't need to look at ways to evolve or improve in some way, he does (and maybe already is thinking long term about what happens next) but while I don't enjoy the football much it's effective for what Jones has been tasked with this season - survival no matter what, pragmatic points over stylish failure.1 -
I just threw the formation change out there, was really thinking of a way to improve us tbh2
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Maybe if I’d have written , mixed results and performances using the same methods, to make it clearer, all the results are not the same so technically mixed if being a pedant. Naby ive no problem with you’re staunch defence of NJ, I’m still in support of him, but that’s no reason to not question things going forward as a point of debate, none of us are always right, but that includes you also.NabySarr said:
Mixed results? We are outperforming our budget, that’s pretty good results to me. This season has so far been a huge success and a different style would have most likely seen worse resultsSword65pf said:I wonder if we miss out on the profile of midfielder that a lot of us are talking about due to NJ’s style of play?, if so how do we evolve?, will NJ himself evolve? I think when bringing up what he’s done for us is fine and deserved, however that was a style and philosophy that for want of better words, got away with due to the quality in league 1, we are already seeing mixed results in the championship, obviously hampered by integral injuries, but that’s not been the case all season for example the Pompey game, we were arguably full strength. Nathan has been great, but I think if he stays stubborn with the way he is doing things it may not end well.
I’m not sure why so many are writing off Jones being able to improve us season after season at this level. Look at the evidence from his career, he did exactly that with Luton so why is he now too stubborn to do it here?2 -
Surprised no one has mentioned (unless I missed it) that we frequent change formation in games. Off the top of my head this season we have played:
3-5-2
4-2-3-1
4-5-1
4-1-4-1
5 - box - 1
5 - diamond - 1
Thats ignoring all the times NJ has taken off Coventry for the last 5/10 mins and played 3 strikers in a weird messy blob1 -
Quite often once he’s made that change he has reverted to the original game plan in the same game also. Interested to see peoples view on which formation we’ve looked the most ‘fluid’ as NJ says?, my point being on most occasions the football style is the same but in a different formation, in that I mean the punt forward most of the time cutting out the midfield. There have been odd occasions we have passed through the 3rds and done it well and then it stops again.fenaddick said:Surprised no one has mentioned (unless I missed it) that we frequent change formation in games. Off the top of my head this season we have played:
3-5-2
4-2-3-1
4-5-1
4-1-4-1
5 - box - 1
5 - diamond - 1
Thats ignoring all the times NJ has taken off Coventry for the last 5/10 mins and played 3 strikers in a weird messy blob0 -
I actually think the 352 is the most fluid when it works well and we have the wingbacks pushing forward. Either that or you need TC (or a similar player) pushing wide from the central position to exploit space and create overloads up the pitch. The issues often come when opposition pin our wingbacks back, we then become too hoofballSword65pf said:
Quite often once he’s made that change he has reverted to the original game plan in the same game also. Interested to see peoples view on which formation we’ve looked the most ‘fluid’ as NJ says?, my point being on most occasions the football style is the same but in a different formation, in that I mean the punt forward most of the time cutting out the midfield. There have been odd occasions we have passed through the 3rds and done it well and then it stops again.fenaddick said:Surprised no one has mentioned (unless I missed it) that we frequent change formation in games. Off the top of my head this season we have played:
3-5-2
4-2-3-1
4-5-1
4-1-4-1
5 - box - 1
5 - diamond - 1
Thats ignoring all the times NJ has taken off Coventry for the last 5/10 mins and played 3 strikers in a weird messy blob0 -
Have we? I think the only time we’ve really tried this was against Derby, where we put Fullah on as an extra midfielder and had all the possession in the second half but we still created no good chancesSword65pf said:
Quite often once he’s made that change he has reverted to the original game plan in the same game also. Interested to see peoples view on which formation we’ve looked the most ‘fluid’ as NJ says?, my point being on most occasions the football style is the same but in a different formation, in that I mean the punt forward most of the time cutting out the midfield. There have been odd occasions we have passed through the 3rds and done it well and then it stops again.fenaddick said:Surprised no one has mentioned (unless I missed it) that we frequent change formation in games. Off the top of my head this season we have played:
3-5-2
4-2-3-1
4-5-1
4-1-4-1
5 - box - 1
5 - diamond - 1
Thats ignoring all the times NJ has taken off Coventry for the last 5/10 mins and played 3 strikers in a weird messy blob
Our approach when chasing a goal is usually to go more and more route one. And it often works a lot better than what we tried against Derby0 -
This is the nub of it for me. I actually quite like our options up top, but appreciate Godden is aging and the injury is going to take a lot for him to recover from, at most he’s a reliable sub if he’s with us next year (I don’t know when his contract is up). Leaburn, Dykes, Kelman and TC are okay if we can get better service to them. I think we will need to add one more in this dpt if we stay up. I see Tanto going on loan again next year. Just got a feeling it’s not going to work out, and although it’s frustrating we’ve spent money on him and he has a long contract, it happensblackpool72 said:Our midfield needs a complete overhaul in the summer.
Sheff Wed aside we probably have the worst midfield in the championship.
Jones won't change the system at this stage of the season anyway.
Just hope we stay up and change personel in the summer.
As you have mentioned Blackpool, the midfield for me is pretty crap. Carey deserves credit for the goals he’s scored this season and making the step up, but he’s not dynamic enough at this level and I think he’s really disappeared since Xmas. He may show more of what he’s about if he had 2 better players in the Docherty/Coady roles, but it’s hard to judge. As for Docherty, great servant, but operating a league above his level. We need to move him on. Same with Coventry, top end league one player who doesn’t have the skill with the ball at his feet to be effective at this level. Berry is hanging on but he knows his days are numbered. JRC is a mystery. Had some really good games against Pompey and Coventry, looked like we might have finally seen why we signed him, but since then relegated back to the bench. This leaves Knibbs. Even before the injury I was unsure how good he is, and he’s got a long way to come back now.Apter is a conundrum as he doesn’t fit wing back, but we don’t play with wingers. We need to move on Doc, Coventry, Berry, see what happens with Apter. I don’t want Coady past this season, even in defence. His wages are high, and although he’s an experienced leader, I really feel he’s plugging a gap until the end of the season.
if we stay up it’s going to take another 7/8 signings to put right imo so that we’re not scratching around here this time next year, still watching long balls up to Dykes2 -
Can we look into doing something about the space or lack there of, on the back slash in the title, please?1
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Feel Jones’ formation would work so much better if we could replace Docherty with a quality ball carrying CM (that can also do the defensive work)
That way you’d have Carey/New Midfielder/Leaburn/TC/ Clarke/ Chambers all able to attack.Right now Docherty is doing the dirty work, but doesn’t have the ability to move us up the pitch from deep.As a result we often have to watch Jones/Ramsay/Bell pass sideways before resorting to a punt.To progress, we have to work out how to play through the other team from the back. That way we won’t be so painfully one dimensional.2 -
That’s the next phase, but I’m sure Jones knows that. It just isn’t that easy to find a player that can do that when you’re a newly promoted team. Hopefully we can address it this summerLaddick01 said:Feel Jones’ formation would work so much better if we could replace Docherty with a quality ball carrying CM (that can also do the defensive work)
That way you’d have Carey/New Midfielder/Leaburn/TC/ Clarke/ Chambers all able to attack.Right now Docherty is doing the dirty work, but doesn’t have the ability to move us up the pitch from deep.As a result we often have to watch Jones/Ramsay/Bell pass sideways before resorting to a punt.To progress, we have to work out how to play through the other team from the back. That way we won’t be so painfully one dimensional.
Our system isn’t the problem, when we have the players for it then it works most of the time. If we upgrade the midfield, and either retain Clarke and Chambers or bring in similar so we’ve got good wing back options, then we will be higher up the league next season0 -
Must be too busy down Aldi again and need to delegate.Gribbo said:Can we look into doing something about the space or lack there of, on the back slash in the title, please?1
