Charlton accounts 2024/25

msomerton · March 22

I should apologies to the current owners, as I was one those supporters who criticized the owners for not funding the club well enough, looking at those figures was totally wrong.
If we remain up, just imagine how much more they will have to find to put together a Championship squad.
If you look at the Championship accounts being published for the 2024/2025 season, it is scary.

bobmunro · March 22

msomerton said:

I should apologies to the current owners, as I was one those supporters who criticized the owners for not funding the club well enough, looking at those figures was totally wrong.
If we remain up, just imagine how much more they will have to find to put together a Championship squad.
If you look at the Championship accounts being published for the 2024/2025 season, it is scary.

100% this.

We sit in The Championship, almost certain to be there next season also. The Valley and Training Ground and the squad having seen significant investment and no sign whatsoever of the owners, who have spent tens of millions of their own money on our Club, looking for an exit. Yet there is still so much negativity, bitching and digging out.

I'm certainly no apologist for the SMT, particularly after having been turfed out of my seat (yes I have renewed elsewhere but I knew and they knew that I would!), but they are doing a decent job overall. Not perfect of course but nothing is.

And to the owners - thank you.

redman · March 22

fenaddick said:

Crispywood said:

fenaddick said:

Crispywood said:

What I want to know is firstly how on earth did we make a 1.4M profit on players in 24/25. We spent 1.3-1.4M according to accurate sources and only made 1M from May I doubt we sold REG for 1.7M did we sell some academy prospects?

In addition some people saying are owners don’t back us the average operating loss in L1 is 5M a year and they happily lost 15M last season were very lucky to have them

There will be some compensation from academy players but won’t be 1.7m worth

Then where’s that 1.4M profit come from is what I want to know. Ahadme cost us 750k Godden was 250k, Mitchell was 300k + 20% sell on Edwards cost us 90k and the only players we got money for was May which was 1M and REG/Ness where no leaked figures have been given. I’m concerned to make that amount of money we must have given up one of the best youngsters in the country.

15M operating loss for L1 in a promotion campaign is absurd though can see why the owners are looking for sustainability

Player spends will be amortised over the contract length so if we spent 750k on Ahadme and his deal is 4 years (from memory) so only £187.5k will be included in the accounts

This is normally the case. However is there no impairment review? In a normal business, an asset bought with a 4 year life is amortised over the 4 years. However there is an impairment review. If that asset ceases to be of much value at the end of year 1, it's asset value would be written down. (Edit: In fact it does say they are reviewed in the accounting policies). In Ahadme's case it would be hard to argue that Ahadme's contract was still worth 3/4 of £750k! Not sure what the benefit of arguing it was anyway.

Henry Irving · March 22

So those who have been saying how tight and/or skint the owners are can now see just how much they are putting in, meanwhile the predicted losses for the current season were stated as £11m to £13m.

And they are looking at getting Cat 1 for the academy which should reap financial benefits but only after a few seasons according to Carter.

But those voices are strangely quiet on this matter.

Clearly, we need to increase commercial income but that is easier said than done as Methvan proved. Regardless we will continue to be funded by our "tight/skint" owners unless we can sell players for £15m or more every year

redman · March 22

.

Crispywood · March 22

The fact they were willing to lose 15M in league 1 just shows how much they care. Willing to accept 15M losses a year in the championship takes some level of commitment but to do that in L1 is borderline crazy.

DOUCHER · March 22

I’m thankful for what the current owners do and certainly they are better than we have had for a long time but let’s be clear - just as you have to pay the going rate for a championship quality player, the same applies to owners who want to own a championship quality football club - they’re not doing for charity or going short in other areas of their lives - they’re minted and this is a bit of ‘fun’ to them - same as the Chelsea owners who have pissed away a billion quid on an experiment coz they could. Push the boat out in the summer and get us competing on a level footing with clubs that historically we always have and then I will consider we are back to where we should be - pains me to see us looking on enviably at squads or missing out on players to teams like Preston and Bristol City, let alone the likes of Oxford and Millwall

Crispywood · March 22

DOUCHER said:

I’m thankful for what the current owners do and certainly they are better than we have had for a long time but let’s be clear - just as you have to pay the going rate for a championship quality player, the same applies to owners who want to own a championship quality football club - they’re not doing for charity or going short in other areas of their lives - they’re minted and this is a bit of ‘fun’ to them - same as the Chelsea owners who have pissed away a billion quid on an experiment coz they could. Push the boat out in the summer and get us competing on a level footing with clubs that historically we always have and then I will consider we are back to where we should be - pains me to see us looking on enviably at squads or missing out on players to teams like Preston and Bristol City, let alone the likes of Oxford and Millwall

I think we can only fairly judge level of investment in relation to overall total losses. End of the day history doesn’t account for current income which Bristol city made 4x we did last year (guessing it’s more 2x this season expect we double our income with championship money)

If another club is making more money than us then we can’t complain about them spending more. However, take Pompey who have an owner who is only willing to lose 4.4M a year and you have other owners willing to lose 15-20M over a year that’s when I’d start to say well end of the day they’re happy to lose x amount why can’t we do the same.

Considering FFP rules is 39M losses over 3 years If we’re happy to lose 13M a year for the majority of the time like we’re expecting to for this financial year theres not much more they can do

DOUCHER · March 22

Crispywood said:

DOUCHER said:

I’m thankful for what the current owners do and certainly they are better than we have had for a long time but let’s be clear - just as you have to pay the going rate for a championship quality player, the same applies to owners who want to own a championship quality football club - they’re not doing for charity or going short in other areas of their lives - they’re minted and this is a bit of ‘fun’ to them - same as the Chelsea owners who have pissed away a billion quid on an experiment coz they could. Push the boat out in the summer and get us competing on a level footing with clubs that historically we always have and then I will consider we are back to where we should be - pains me to see us looking on enviably at squads or missing out on players to teams like Preston and Bristol City, let alone the likes of Oxford and Millwall

I think we can only fairly judge level of investment in relation to overall total losses. End of the day history doesn’t account for current income which Bristol city made 4x we did last year (guessing it’s more 2x this season expect we double our income with championship money)

If another club is making more money than us then we can’t complain about them spending more. However, take Pompey who have an owner who is only willing to lose 4.4M a year and you have other owners willing to lose 15-20M over a year that’s when I’d start to say well end of the day they’re happy to lose x amount why can’t we do the same.

Considering FFP rules is 39M losses over 3 years If we’re happy to lose 13M a year for the majority of the time like we’re expecting to for this financial year theres not much more they can do

If Bristol city r earning double what we are then id say ed Warwick and the directors have a lot they can be getting on with to understand why - moving a few long standing supporters from their seats is a start I guess - ditching reebok would be next in my list - I’d have spent quite a bit more this year on merch if reebok produced anything that was even half decent - where are the big gaps on our revenue streams compared to Bristol city ?

Crispywood · March 22

DOUCHER said:

Crispywood said:

DOUCHER said:

I’m thankful for what the current owners do and certainly they are better than we have had for a long time but let’s be clear - just as you have to pay the going rate for a championship quality player, the same applies to owners who want to own a championship quality football club - they’re not doing for charity or going short in other areas of their lives - they’re minted and this is a bit of ‘fun’ to them - same as the Chelsea owners who have pissed away a billion quid on an experiment coz they could. Push the boat out in the summer and get us competing on a level footing with clubs that historically we always have and then I will consider we are back to where we should be - pains me to see us looking on enviably at squads or missing out on players to teams like Preston and Bristol City, let alone the likes of Oxford and Millwall

I think we can only fairly judge level of investment in relation to overall total losses. End of the day history doesn’t account for current income which Bristol city made 4x we did last year (guessing it’s more 2x this season expect we double our income with championship money)

If another club is making more money than us then we can’t complain about them spending more. However, take Pompey who have an owner who is only willing to lose 4.4M a year and you have other owners willing to lose 15-20M over a year that’s when I’d start to say well end of the day they’re happy to lose x amount why can’t we do the same.

Considering FFP rules is 39M losses over 3 years If we’re happy to lose 13M a year for the majority of the time like we’re expecting to for this financial year theres not much more they can do

If Bristol city r earning double what we are then id say ed Warwick and the directors have a lot they can be getting on with to understand why - moving a few long standing supporters from their seats is a start I guess - ditching reebok would be next in my list - I’d have spent quite a bit more this year on merch if reebok produced anything that was even half decent - where are the big gaps on our revenue streams compared to Bristol city ?

Obviously the championship and L1 tv revenue there’s 9M difference which won’t be there this season. They also made 2.5M extra through Matchday activities and sales but the big one is they make an extra 20M in commercialisation compared to us don’t quite understand how something to do with their ground.

That is the working theory with us doubling our revenue this year which we in theory should do with 9M tv money increased season ticket sales, matchday purchases etc. Pompey made 25M in their first season in the championship which I reckon is a good indicator for where we should hopefully be aiming

LenGlover · March 22

Crispywood said:

DOUCHER said:

Crispywood said:

DOUCHER said:

I’m thankful for what the current owners do and certainly they are better than we have had for a long time but let’s be clear - just as you have to pay the going rate for a championship quality player, the same applies to owners who want to own a championship quality football club - they’re not doing for charity or going short in other areas of their lives - they’re minted and this is a bit of ‘fun’ to them - same as the Chelsea owners who have pissed away a billion quid on an experiment coz they could. Push the boat out in the summer and get us competing on a level footing with clubs that historically we always have and then I will consider we are back to where we should be - pains me to see us looking on enviably at squads or missing out on players to teams like Preston and Bristol City, let alone the likes of Oxford and Millwall

I think we can only fairly judge level of investment in relation to overall total losses. End of the day history doesn’t account for current income which Bristol city made 4x we did last year (guessing it’s more 2x this season expect we double our income with championship money)

If another club is making more money than us then we can’t complain about them spending more. However, take Pompey who have an owner who is only willing to lose 4.4M a year and you have other owners willing to lose 15-20M over a year that’s when I’d start to say well end of the day they’re happy to lose x amount why can’t we do the same.

Considering FFP rules is 39M losses over 3 years If we’re happy to lose 13M a year for the majority of the time like we’re expecting to for this financial year theres not much more they can do

If Bristol city r earning double what we are then id say ed Warwick and the directors have a lot they can be getting on with to understand why - moving a few long standing supporters from their seats is a start I guess - ditching reebok would be next in my list - I’d have spent quite a bit more this year on merch if reebok produced anything that was even half decent - where are the big gaps on our revenue streams compared to Bristol city ?

Obviously the championship and L1 tv revenue there’s 9M difference which won’t be there this season. They also made 2.5M extra through Matchday activities and sales but the big one is they make an extra 20M in commercialisation compared to us don’t quite understand how something to do with their ground.

That is the working theory with us doubling our revenue this year which we in theory should do with 9M tv money increased season ticket sales, matchday purchases etc. Pompey made 25M in their first season in the championship which I reckon is a good indicator for where we should hopefully be aiming

Might be too early to be reflected in their accounts but Ashton Gate hosted a few rugby matches during the Women’s World Cup. I think Bristol Bears RFC do or have played there too.

valleynick66 · March 22

DOUCHER said:

Crispywood said:

DOUCHER said:

I’m thankful for what the current owners do and certainly they are better than we have had for a long time but let’s be clear - just as you have to pay the going rate for a championship quality player, the same applies to owners who want to own a championship quality football club - they’re not doing for charity or going short in other areas of their lives - they’re minted and this is a bit of ‘fun’ to them - same as the Chelsea owners who have pissed away a billion quid on an experiment coz they could. Push the boat out in the summer and get us competing on a level footing with clubs that historically we always have and then I will consider we are back to where we should be - pains me to see us looking on enviably at squads or missing out on players to teams like Preston and Bristol City, let alone the likes of Oxford and Millwall

I think we can only fairly judge level of investment in relation to overall total losses. End of the day history doesn’t account for current income which Bristol city made 4x we did last year (guessing it’s more 2x this season expect we double our income with championship money)

If another club is making more money than us then we can’t complain about them spending more. However, take Pompey who have an owner who is only willing to lose 4.4M a year and you have other owners willing to lose 15-20M over a year that’s when I’d start to say well end of the day they’re happy to lose x amount why can’t we do the same.

Considering FFP rules is 39M losses over 3 years If we’re happy to lose 13M a year for the majority of the time like we’re expecting to for this financial year theres not much more they can do

If Bristol city r earning double what we are then id say ed Warwick and the directors have a lot they can be getting on with to understand why - moving a few long standing supporters from their seats is a start I guess - ditching reebok would be next in my list - I’d have spent quite a bit more this year on merch if reebok produced anything that was even half decent - where are the big gaps on our revenue streams compared to Bristol city ?

Club shop sales aren’t going go to make any meaningful difference - ever.

DOUCHER · March 22

valleynick66 said:

DOUCHER said:

Crispywood said:

DOUCHER said:

I’m thankful for what the current owners do and certainly they are better than we have had for a long time but let’s be clear - just as you have to pay the going rate for a championship quality player, the same applies to owners who want to own a championship quality football club - they’re not doing for charity or going short in other areas of their lives - they’re minted and this is a bit of ‘fun’ to them - same as the Chelsea owners who have pissed away a billion quid on an experiment coz they could. Push the boat out in the summer and get us competing on a level footing with clubs that historically we always have and then I will consider we are back to where we should be - pains me to see us looking on enviably at squads or missing out on players to teams like Preston and Bristol City, let alone the likes of Oxford and Millwall

I think we can only fairly judge level of investment in relation to overall total losses. End of the day history doesn’t account for current income which Bristol city made 4x we did last year (guessing it’s more 2x this season expect we double our income with championship money)

If another club is making more money than us then we can’t complain about them spending more. However, take Pompey who have an owner who is only willing to lose 4.4M a year and you have other owners willing to lose 15-20M over a year that’s when I’d start to say well end of the day they’re happy to lose x amount why can’t we do the same.

Considering FFP rules is 39M losses over 3 years If we’re happy to lose 13M a year for the majority of the time like we’re expecting to for this financial year theres not much more they can do

If Bristol city r earning double what we are then id say ed Warwick and the directors have a lot they can be getting on with to understand why - moving a few long standing supporters from their seats is a start I guess - ditching reebok would be next in my list - I’d have spent quite a bit more this year on merch if reebok produced anything that was even half decent - where are the big gaps on our revenue streams compared to Bristol city ?

Club shop sales aren’t going go to make any meaningful difference - ever.

i know, but what does ? i get that 'one club city's' maybe have an edge in some respects but there are a lot of clubs that aren't bigger than us in the championship so all things being equal, shouldn't have so much more revenue

valleynick66 · March 22

DOUCHER said:

valleynick66 said:

DOUCHER said:

Crispywood said:

DOUCHER said:

I’m thankful for what the current owners do and certainly they are better than we have had for a long time but let’s be clear - just as you have to pay the going rate for a championship quality player, the same applies to owners who want to own a championship quality football club - they’re not doing for charity or going short in other areas of their lives - they’re minted and this is a bit of ‘fun’ to them - same as the Chelsea owners who have pissed away a billion quid on an experiment coz they could. Push the boat out in the summer and get us competing on a level footing with clubs that historically we always have and then I will consider we are back to where we should be - pains me to see us looking on enviably at squads or missing out on players to teams like Preston and Bristol City, let alone the likes of Oxford and Millwall

I think we can only fairly judge level of investment in relation to overall total losses. End of the day history doesn’t account for current income which Bristol city made 4x we did last year (guessing it’s more 2x this season expect we double our income with championship money)

If another club is making more money than us then we can’t complain about them spending more. However, take Pompey who have an owner who is only willing to lose 4.4M a year and you have other owners willing to lose 15-20M over a year that’s when I’d start to say well end of the day they’re happy to lose x amount why can’t we do the same.

Considering FFP rules is 39M losses over 3 years If we’re happy to lose 13M a year for the majority of the time like we’re expecting to for this financial year theres not much more they can do

If Bristol city r earning double what we are then id say ed Warwick and the directors have a lot they can be getting on with to understand why - moving a few long standing supporters from their seats is a start I guess - ditching reebok would be next in my list - I’d have spent quite a bit more this year on merch if reebok produced anything that was even half decent - where are the big gaps on our revenue streams compared to Bristol city ?

Club shop sales aren’t going go to make any meaningful difference - ever.

i know, but what does ? i get that 'one club city's' maybe have an edge in some respects but there are a lot of clubs that aren't bigger than us in the championship so all things being equal, shouldn't have so much more revenue

Commercial income presumably.

Retail bits and bobs is a red herring.

Our ground isn’t used by anyone else it seems even in the summer. Everyone bemoans the corporate hospitality. I never hear of anyone using our faciiities for say corporate awaydays during the week. Our sponsorships seem to be reciprocal arrangements more than hard cash.

Oh and we price tickets poorly to attract any new supporters.

MarcusH26 · March 22

LenGlover said:

Crispywood said:

DOUCHER said:

Crispywood said:

DOUCHER said:

I’m thankful for what the current owners do and certainly they are better than we have had for a long time but let’s be clear - just as you have to pay the going rate for a championship quality player, the same applies to owners who want to own a championship quality football club - they’re not doing for charity or going short in other areas of their lives - they’re minted and this is a bit of ‘fun’ to them - same as the Chelsea owners who have pissed away a billion quid on an experiment coz they could. Push the boat out in the summer and get us competing on a level footing with clubs that historically we always have and then I will consider we are back to where we should be - pains me to see us looking on enviably at squads or missing out on players to teams like Preston and Bristol City, let alone the likes of Oxford and Millwall

I think we can only fairly judge level of investment in relation to overall total losses. End of the day history doesn’t account for current income which Bristol city made 4x we did last year (guessing it’s more 2x this season expect we double our income with championship money)

If another club is making more money than us then we can’t complain about them spending more. However, take Pompey who have an owner who is only willing to lose 4.4M a year and you have other owners willing to lose 15-20M over a year that’s when I’d start to say well end of the day they’re happy to lose x amount why can’t we do the same.

Considering FFP rules is 39M losses over 3 years If we’re happy to lose 13M a year for the majority of the time like we’re expecting to for this financial year theres not much more they can do

If Bristol city r earning double what we are then id say ed Warwick and the directors have a lot they can be getting on with to understand why - moving a few long standing supporters from their seats is a start I guess - ditching reebok would be next in my list - I’d have spent quite a bit more this year on merch if reebok produced anything that was even half decent - where are the big gaps on our revenue streams compared to Bristol city ?

Obviously the championship and L1 tv revenue there’s 9M difference which won’t be there this season. They also made 2.5M extra through Matchday activities and sales but the big one is they make an extra 20M in commercialisation compared to us don’t quite understand how something to do with their ground.

That is the working theory with us doubling our revenue this year which we in theory should do with 9M tv money increased season ticket sales, matchday purchases etc. Pompey made 25M in their first season in the championship which I reckon is a good indicator for where we should hopefully be aiming

Might be too early to be reflected in their accounts but Ashton Gate hosted a few rugby matches during the Women’s World Cup. I think Bristol Bears RFC do or have played there too.

Yeah shared with the rugby team , both owned by Lansdowne. Would imagine they get a few concerts and things in the summer too.

fenaddick · March 22

MarcusH26 said:

LenGlover said:

Crispywood said:

DOUCHER said:

Crispywood said:

DOUCHER said:

I’m thankful for what the current owners do and certainly they are better than we have had for a long time but let’s be clear - just as you have to pay the going rate for a championship quality player, the same applies to owners who want to own a championship quality football club - they’re not doing for charity or going short in other areas of their lives - they’re minted and this is a bit of ‘fun’ to them - same as the Chelsea owners who have pissed away a billion quid on an experiment coz they could. Push the boat out in the summer and get us competing on a level footing with clubs that historically we always have and then I will consider we are back to where we should be - pains me to see us looking on enviably at squads or missing out on players to teams like Preston and Bristol City, let alone the likes of Oxford and Millwall

I think we can only fairly judge level of investment in relation to overall total losses. End of the day history doesn’t account for current income which Bristol city made 4x we did last year (guessing it’s more 2x this season expect we double our income with championship money)

If another club is making more money than us then we can’t complain about them spending more. However, take Pompey who have an owner who is only willing to lose 4.4M a year and you have other owners willing to lose 15-20M over a year that’s when I’d start to say well end of the day they’re happy to lose x amount why can’t we do the same.

Considering FFP rules is 39M losses over 3 years If we’re happy to lose 13M a year for the majority of the time like we’re expecting to for this financial year theres not much more they can do

If Bristol city r earning double what we are then id say ed Warwick and the directors have a lot they can be getting on with to understand why - moving a few long standing supporters from their seats is a start I guess - ditching reebok would be next in my list - I’d have spent quite a bit more this year on merch if reebok produced anything that was even half decent - where are the big gaps on our revenue streams compared to Bristol city ?

Obviously the championship and L1 tv revenue there’s 9M difference which won’t be there this season. They also made 2.5M extra through Matchday activities and sales but the big one is they make an extra 20M in commercialisation compared to us don’t quite understand how something to do with their ground.

That is the working theory with us doubling our revenue this year which we in theory should do with 9M tv money increased season ticket sales, matchday purchases etc. Pompey made 25M in their first season in the championship which I reckon is a good indicator for where we should hopefully be aiming

Might be too early to be reflected in their accounts but Ashton Gate hosted a few rugby matches during the Women’s World Cup. I think Bristol Bears RFC do or have played there too.

Yeah shared with the rugby team , both owned by Lansdowne. Would imagine they get a few concerts and things in the summer too.

They certainly used to as the in-laws have been to a few, not sure anymore

MarcusH26 · March 22

I know the FA likes to take them on tour around the country and if they did do U21s games in London it would probably be Brentford before we'd even be considered but I wonder if we've ever tried to get one, I vaguely remember a U20 game against Russia back in the Prem days?

letthegoodtimesroll · March 23

valleynick66 said:

DOUCHER said:

Crispywood said:

DOUCHER said:

I’m thankful for what the current owners do and certainly they are better than we have had for a long time but let’s be clear - just as you have to pay the going rate for a championship quality player, the same applies to owners who want to own a championship quality football club - they’re not doing for charity or going short in other areas of their lives - they’re minted and this is a bit of ‘fun’ to them - same as the Chelsea owners who have pissed away a billion quid on an experiment coz they could. Push the boat out in the summer and get us competing on a level footing with clubs that historically we always have and then I will consider we are back to where we should be - pains me to see us looking on enviably at squads or missing out on players to teams like Preston and Bristol City, let alone the likes of Oxford and Millwall

I think we can only fairly judge level of investment in relation to overall total losses. End of the day history doesn’t account for current income which Bristol city made 4x we did last year (guessing it’s more 2x this season expect we double our income with championship money)

If another club is making more money than us then we can’t complain about them spending more. However, take Pompey who have an owner who is only willing to lose 4.4M a year and you have other owners willing to lose 15-20M over a year that’s when I’d start to say well end of the day they’re happy to lose x amount why can’t we do the same.

Considering FFP rules is 39M losses over 3 years If we’re happy to lose 13M a year for the majority of the time like we’re expecting to for this financial year theres not much more they can do

If Bristol city r earning double what we are then id say ed Warwick and the directors have a lot they can be getting on with to understand why - moving a few long standing supporters from their seats is a start I guess - ditching reebok would be next in my list - I’d have spent quite a bit more this year on merch if reebok produced anything that was even half decent - where are the big gaps on our revenue streams compared to Bristol city ?

Club shop sales aren’t going go to make any meaningful difference - ever.

Not at the level of pricing of the ‘goods’ they sell; and the tiny club shop the club has. The footprint of the store should be a lot bigger and better able to manage the flows of fans wanting to get into the store and pass through it. Price, being able to look at the goods you might buy and then pay for it looks to be the biggest deterrents to purchasing anything. There’s a stall opposite the club shop that is set up better to tempt and sell its wares imo.

Replica football shirts should be priced to encourage impulse buys and repeat purchases. They should also sell a package of all 3 shirts for a come and buy me price.

Airman Brown · March 23

valleynick66 said:

DOUCHER said:

valleynick66 said:

DOUCHER said:

Crispywood said:

DOUCHER said:

I’m thankful for what the current owners do and certainly they are better than we have had for a long time but let’s be clear - just as you have to pay the going rate for a championship quality player, the same applies to owners who want to own a championship quality football club - they’re not doing for charity or going short in other areas of their lives - they’re minted and this is a bit of ‘fun’ to them - same as the Chelsea owners who have pissed away a billion quid on an experiment coz they could. Push the boat out in the summer and get us competing on a level footing with clubs that historically we always have and then I will consider we are back to where we should be - pains me to see us looking on enviably at squads or missing out on players to teams like Preston and Bristol City, let alone the likes of Oxford and Millwall

I think we can only fairly judge level of investment in relation to overall total losses. End of the day history doesn’t account for current income which Bristol city made 4x we did last year (guessing it’s more 2x this season expect we double our income with championship money)

If another club is making more money than us then we can’t complain about them spending more. However, take Pompey who have an owner who is only willing to lose 4.4M a year and you have other owners willing to lose 15-20M over a year that’s when I’d start to say well end of the day they’re happy to lose x amount why can’t we do the same.

Considering FFP rules is 39M losses over 3 years If we’re happy to lose 13M a year for the majority of the time like we’re expecting to for this financial year theres not much more they can do

If Bristol city r earning double what we are then id say ed Warwick and the directors have a lot they can be getting on with to understand why - moving a few long standing supporters from their seats is a start I guess - ditching reebok would be next in my list - I’d have spent quite a bit more this year on merch if reebok produced anything that was even half decent - where are the big gaps on our revenue streams compared to Bristol city ?

Club shop sales aren’t going go to make any meaningful difference - ever.

i know, but what does ? i get that 'one club city's' maybe have an edge in some respects but there are a lot of clubs that aren't bigger than us in the championship so all things being equal, shouldn't have so much more revenue

Commercial income presumably.

Retail bits and bobs is a red herring.

Our ground isn’t used by anyone else it seems even in the summer. Everyone bemoans the corporate hospitality. I never hear of anyone using our faciiities for say corporate awaydays during the week. Our sponsorships seem to be reciprocal arrangements more than hard cash.

Oh and we price tickets poorly to attract any new supporters.

I agree. You have to consider the effect of geography and where supporters live on the commercial income. No ownership has ever cracked it, IMO, which is why I always focus on increasing support. With thousands of empty seats it’s the best way to add to the bottom line and the only way you will address the commercial issue. You won’t do it by inventing new hospitality packages because the fundamental problem is lack of demand.

ShootersHillGuru · March 23

Build it (the team) and they will come.

Henry Irving · March 23

Fact is there are a number of non-football events at the Valley such as wedding receptions, staff conferences and exams.

I see them happening or being set up on a regular basis when I'm there on non-match days.

The two problems that I suspect limit our income from such use is 1. There are plenty of other venues for weddings, parties, etc in SE London and Kent so it is a competitive market and 2. The catering and hospitality is outsourced so these events give us little extra income. Meanwhile, the club can't host its own events eg dinners, Q&As, film nights, re-unions etc etc as they would have to pay Gather and Gather for the privalige of using their own stadium. Yes, we get a fixed sum upfront and possibly a percentage of profits but there is no real incentive to create new events or useage when our profit is marginal.

The other is just how poorly run the club has been in recent years. Not just on the pitch but off it too.

We have some great staff who have tried to make things work despite idiot owners and CEOs but they are not miricle workers. Good staff have left, bad managers have come in, ripped things apart and then left, there has been no stability and fan run firms who might do work at "mate's rates" and buy hospitality have been badly treated so have walked away.

We've also been offering league 1 football, crowds have been down, we weren't on TV much, the whole offering was 3rd division.

Hopefully, things are changing for the better. We appear to have stable ownership but key management positions have been vacant and IMHO we're still looking around for sexy solutions like new membership schemes and summer festivals rather than backing Valley Gold and a player of the year dinner. Innovate by all means but don't ignore what actually works.

Airman Brown · March 23

The accounts show the retail stock cost as £990k and the stock in hand at year end as £407k. That implies to me that all the commercial revenue growth in year (£478k) was retail sales (offset by cost). There’s certainly nothing going on in 2024/25 that justifies the claptrap about commercial growth from CM. It’s not clear if retail made any profit.

i don’t know what the growth in “other” income of £731k comprises or what the £656k from “release of liabilities” is, to be fair.

Henry Irving · March 23

Airman Brown said:

The accounts show the retail stock cost as £990k and the stock in hand at year end as £407k. That implies to me that all the commercial revenue growth in year (£478k) was retail sales (offset by cost). There’s certainly nothing going on in 2024/25 that justifies the claptrap about commercial growth from CM. It’s not clear if retail made any profit.

i don’t know what the growth in “other” income of £731k comprises or what the £656k from “release of liabilities” is, to be fair.

CM's inability to live up to the promises he made around increasing commercial income is one of, but not the only, reasons he's no longer here.

msomerton · March 23

Crispywood said:

DOUCHER said:

I’m thankful for what the current owners do and certainly they are better than we have had for a long time but let’s be clear - just as you have to pay the going rate for a championship quality player, the same applies to owners who want to own a championship quality football club - they’re not doing for charity or going short in other areas of their lives - they’re minted and this is a bit of ‘fun’ to them - same as the Chelsea owners who have pissed away a billion quid on an experiment coz they could. Push the boat out in the summer and get us competing on a level footing with clubs that historically we always have and then I will consider we are back to where we should be - pains me to see us looking on enviably at squads or missing out on players to teams like Preston and Bristol City, let alone the likes of Oxford and Millwall

I think we can only fairly judge level of investment in relation to overall total losses. End of the day history doesn’t account for current income which Bristol city made 4x we did last year (guessing it’s more 2x this season expect we double our income with championship money)

If another club is making more money than us then we can’t complain about them spending more. However, take Pompey who have an owner who is only willing to lose 4.4M a year and you have other owners willing to lose 15-20M over a year that’s when I’d start to say well end of the day they’re happy to lose x amount why can’t we do the same.

Considering FFP rules is 39M losses over 3 years If we’re happy to lose 13M a year for the majority of the time like we’re expecting to for this financial year theres not much more they can do

Tell Hull that, as they lost£41 million, Coventry £21 million,

shirty5 · March 23

The accounts are being discussed on Cawley’s podcast later this week

Henry Irving · March 23

msomerton said:

Crispywood said:

DOUCHER said:

I’m thankful for what the current owners do and certainly they are better than we have had for a long time but let’s be clear - just as you have to pay the going rate for a championship quality player, the same applies to owners who want to own a championship quality football club - they’re not doing for charity or going short in other areas of their lives - they’re minted and this is a bit of ‘fun’ to them - same as the Chelsea owners who have pissed away a billion quid on an experiment coz they could. Push the boat out in the summer and get us competing on a level footing with clubs that historically we always have and then I will consider we are back to where we should be - pains me to see us looking on enviably at squads or missing out on players to teams like Preston and Bristol City, let alone the likes of Oxford and Millwall

I think we can only fairly judge level of investment in relation to overall total losses. End of the day history doesn’t account for current income which Bristol city made 4x we did last year (guessing it’s more 2x this season expect we double our income with championship money)

If another club is making more money than us then we can’t complain about them spending more. However, take Pompey who have an owner who is only willing to lose 4.4M a year and you have other owners willing to lose 15-20M over a year that’s when I’d start to say well end of the day they’re happy to lose x amount why can’t we do the same.

Considering FFP rules is 39M losses over 3 years If we’re happy to lose 13M a year for the majority of the time like we’re expecting to for this financial year theres not much more they can do

Tell Hull that, as they lost£41 million, Coventry £21 million,

Bare in mind not all losses count towards financial fair play/PSR limits.

Academy and stadium improvements for example.

Crispywood · March 23

msomerton said:

Crispywood said:

DOUCHER said:

I’m thankful for what the current owners do and certainly they are better than we have had for a long time but let’s be clear - just as you have to pay the going rate for a championship quality player, the same applies to owners who want to own a championship quality football club - they’re not doing for charity or going short in other areas of their lives - they’re minted and this is a bit of ‘fun’ to them - same as the Chelsea owners who have pissed away a billion quid on an experiment coz they could. Push the boat out in the summer and get us competing on a level footing with clubs that historically we always have and then I will consider we are back to where we should be - pains me to see us looking on enviably at squads or missing out on players to teams like Preston and Bristol City, let alone the likes of Oxford and Millwall

I think we can only fairly judge level of investment in relation to overall total losses. End of the day history doesn’t account for current income which Bristol city made 4x we did last year (guessing it’s more 2x this season expect we double our income with championship money)

If another club is making more money than us then we can’t complain about them spending more. However, take Pompey who have an owner who is only willing to lose 4.4M a year and you have other owners willing to lose 15-20M over a year that’s when I’d start to say well end of the day they’re happy to lose x amount why can’t we do the same.

Considering FFP rules is 39M losses over 3 years If we’re happy to lose 13M a year for the majority of the time like we’re expecting to for this financial year theres not much more they can do

Tell Hull that, as they lost£41 million, Coventry £21 million,

Also have to consider in the previous 2 years Coventry lost 7M + 5M and Hull made 15M in one year, as long as we’re happy to match the amount of losses over the 3 years FFP period then I’m not gonna complain.

letthegoodtimesroll · March 23

Airman Brown said:

The accounts show the retail stock cost as £990k and the stock in hand at year end as £407k. That implies to me that all the commercial revenue growth in year (£478k) was retail sales (offset by cost). There’s certainly nothing going on in 2024/25 that justifies the claptrap about commercial growth from CM. It’s not clear if retail made any profit.

i don’t know what the growth in “other” income of £731k comprises or what the £656k from “release of liabilities” is, to be fair.

Those accounts are a reflection of the position at the end of that particular last day of the club’s financial year. Given we had the playoff semi-finals and a day out at Wembley I doubt there would have been much retail stock left after that, certainly not much of it that was wearable. That probably implies that most of that stock in hand as at the day of closing the accounts is probably going to be that new stock/shirts being brought in for the new season.

Airman Brown · March 24

letthegoodtimesroll said:

Airman Brown said:

The accounts show the retail stock cost as £990k and the stock in hand at year end as £407k. That implies to me that all the commercial revenue growth in year (£478k) was retail sales (offset by cost). There’s certainly nothing going on in 2024/25 that justifies the claptrap about commercial growth from CM. It’s not clear if retail made any profit.

i don’t know what the growth in “other” income of £731k comprises or what the £656k from “release of liabilities” is, to be fair.

Those accounts are a reflection of the position at the end of that particular last day of the club’s financial year. Given we had the playoff semi-finals and a day out at Wembley I doubt there would have been much retail stock left after that, certainly not much of it that was wearable. That probably implies that most of that stock in hand as at the day of closing the accounts is probably going to be that new stock/shirts being brought in for the new season.

Wouldn’t have been in stock by June 30th, I should think, but if it had it would also be on the costs.

letthegoodtimesroll · 6:59AM

Airman Brown said:

letthegoodtimesroll said:

Airman Brown said:

The accounts show the retail stock cost as £990k and the stock in hand at year end as £407k. That implies to me that all the commercial revenue growth in year (£478k) was retail sales (offset by cost). There’s certainly nothing going on in 2024/25 that justifies the claptrap about commercial growth from CM. It’s not clear if retail made any profit.

i don’t know what the growth in “other” income of £731k comprises or what the £656k from “release of liabilities” is, to be fair.

Those accounts are a reflection of the position at the end of that particular last day of the club’s financial year. Given we had the playoff semi-finals and a day out at Wembley I doubt there would have been much retail stock left after that, certainly not much of it that was wearable. That probably implies that most of that stock in hand as at the day of closing the accounts is probably going to be that new stock/shirts being brought in for the new season.

Wouldn’t have been in stock by June 30th, I should think, but if it had it would also be on the costs.

I haven’t looked at the actual accounts yet but if it is retail stock then for those numbers the bulk of it would have to be shirts and they would have more or less completely sold out when we got to Wembley.

Charlton accounts 2024/25

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