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Portsmouth's debt finally out in the open
Comments
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Fallen a further 18million in debt over the last month apparently. How have they managed that?0
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[cite]Posted By: Jayajosh[/cite][cite]Posted By: seriously_red[/cite]Ridsdale, Storie, Redknapp and Jordan have all been trying to buy success on tick... something Charlton refused to do until Dowie and Pardew came along.... we're suffering for that now but we'll be back... nothing against these people or clubs but if some controls are put in place then maybe the agents and players will have less scope to take all the money out of the game
Still, I'd rather be solvent in Leaque 1 than be insolvent in the leaque above us. I agree, we'll be back.
With our level of debt are we still solvent?0 -
I understand we owe the Bank about £3-4 million, which is manageable. The rest of the debt is owed to the Board members who I cannot see volunteering for administration to recover only a fraction of that debt. Not sure of the figures but seem to thinks it was about £20m before they propped up the club last season by a further £7m.
Norwich are in a similar situation to us I believe but most of the debt is owed to Delia and the Banks.0 -
[cite]Posted By: Ollywozere[/cite]Fallen a further 18million in debt over the last month apparently. How have they managed that?
Rumours are it's a bit of a fiddle. By increasing their debt, it lowers the percentage they owe to the HMRC meaning they can't vote against or block their CVA. At least i think that's what it means. Their debt has gone from a reported 60-70m, to 120m to 138m in the space of about 3 months so somethings not quite right somewhere.0 -
It's now £138.6M0
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Radio Solent has just reiterated that the current company WILL be liquidated, a new one formed which will commence in the Championship with no points penalties.0
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sorry to say but they should go to the wall, plain & simple.
HMRC (the taxman to me & you) are owed £17.1m - it seems that the players goyt their wages but the taxman didn't get the tax due. That is simply wrong. If someone on PAYE gets paid then at the same time the taxman should get their take - otherwise the players (or other staff) should either not get apid at all or only get a proportion of their pay.
Pompey should be wound up or enter next season with a draconian points penalty.......... say -30. This has got to stop. They have got where they are by false means and it can't continue.0 -
HMRC are claiming they're owe'd another £17m.[cite]Posted By: golfaddick[/cite]sorry to say but they should go to the wall, plain & simple.
HMRC (the taxman to me & you) are owed £17.1m - it seems that the players goyt their wages but the taxman didn't get the tax due. That is simply wrong. If someone on PAYE gets paid then at the same time the taxman should get their take - otherwise the players (or other staff) should either not get apid at all or only get a proportion of their pay.
Pompey should be wound up or enter next season with a draconian points penalty.......... say -30. This has got to stop. They have got where they are by false means and it can't continue.
"Kicking off here. Taxman claims another £17m in charges taking unsecured sum 2 £105m. add Chainrai debt + upfront transfer fees 4 £135mish"
http://twitter.com/bbc_matt
If that is true, HMRC are owe'd enough to block the CVA.
I still think they will get away with this, no doubt.0 -
Regardless of whether their debt is 60m, 100m or 138m, it surely still leaves the one important question to be asked, just who is going to buy them in this mess?
A massively in debt club, in the championship, with a run down ground and it's good players (of which there aren't many) about to leave.0 -
[cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]Regardless of whether their debt is 60m, 100m or 138m, it surely still leaves the one important question to be asked, just who is going to buy them in this mess?
A massively in debt club, in the championship, with a run down ground and it's good players (of which there aren't many) about to leave.
I think thats why the CVA is required, by only paying 20% in the pound owed it masively reduces the debt and makes the club viable and saleable. Look at Southampton thye would not be as strong now if they had not gone into administration and had their debts cleared and the current owners been able to buy them on the cheap debt free or at least reduced.
That said they would still owe £27.6 mill which still looks like a millstone riound their necks if they cannot clear out their players and reduce costs0 -
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[cite]Posted By: Kap10[/cite][cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]Regardless of whether their debt is 60m, 100m or 138m, it surely still leaves the one important question to be asked, just who is going to buy them in this mess?
A massively in debt club, in the championship, with a run down ground and it's good players (of which there aren't many) about to leave.
I think thats why the CVA is required, by only paying 20% in the pound owed it masively reduces the debt and makes the club viable and saleable. Look at Southampton thye would not be as strong now if they had not gone into administration and had their debts cleared and the current owners been able to buy them on the cheap debt free or at least reduced.
That said they would still owe £27.6 mill which still looks like a millstone riound their necks if they cannot clear out their players and reduce costs
But isn't the CVA an agreement to pay the non-football creditors 20p in every pound. Football debts to other clubs, and their numerous owners like Gaydamak and Chainrai have to be paid in full don't they? So surely their debt will still be far more than 27m?0 -
[quote][cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Kap10[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]Regardless of whether their debt is 60m, 100m or 138m, it surely still leaves the one important question to be asked, just who is going to buy them in this mess?
A massively in debt club, in the championship, with a run down ground and it's good players (of which there aren't many) about to leave.[/quote]
I think thats why the CVA is required, by only paying 20% in the pound owed it masively reduces the debt and makes the club viable and saleable. Look at Southampton thye would not be as strong now if they had not gone into administration and had their debts cleared and the current owners been able to buy them on the cheap debt free or at least reduced.
That said they would still owe £27.6 mill which still looks like a millstone riound their necks if they cannot clear out their players and reduce costs[/quote]
But isn't the CVA an agreement to pay the non-football creditors 20p in every pound. Football debts to other clubs, and their numerous owners like Gaydamak and Chainrai have to be paid in full don't they? So surely their debt will still be far more than 27m?[/quote]
Errr!!! I don't know but think you are probably right0 -
Presumably the PL just give the parachute payments direct to the football creditors. As I remember, parachutes jumped just after we went down, so 3 years will probably be enough (40-50m?).0
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No doubt they will come up smelling of roses in the championship with parachute payments giving them an unfair advantage over the well run but with no surplus cash clubs. It stinks to high heaven as does much of the goings on in football these days.0
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[cite]Posted By: Kap10[/cite][cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]Regardless of whether their debt is 60m, 100m or 138m, it surely still leaves the one important question to be asked, just who is going to buy them in this mess?
A massively in debt club, in the championship, with a run down ground and it's good players (of which there aren't many) about to leave.
I think thats why the CVA is required, by only paying 20% in the pound owed it masively reduces the debt and makes the club viable and saleable. Look at Southampton thye would not be as strong now if they had not gone into administration and had their debts cleared and the current owners been able to buy them on the cheap debt free or at least reduced.
That said they would still owe £27.6 mill which still looks like a millstone riound their necks if they cannot clear out their players and reduce costs
According to BBC South Today on the day of our takeover - Markus Liebherr purchased the club and made it debt free for a sum 'thought' to be around the region of £30m.
Our debt was just over the £30m mark. So I would say that our debts were paid in full (almost anyway).
On the subject of our administration - At least we were punished for going into administration. Pompey have not been punished.0 -
# CommentAuthorShootersHillGuru
No, the PL will pay football debtors directly from the PP. Chances are Portsmouth won't get a penny of it. IIRC something similar happened when P****e went into admin?0 -
[cite]Posted By: Saints fan[/cite][cite]Posted By: Kap10[/cite][cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]Regardless of whether their debt is 60m, 100m or 138m, it surely still leaves the one important question to be asked, just who is going to buy them in this mess?
A massively in debt club, in the championship, with a run down ground and it's good players (of which there aren't many) about to leave.
I think thats why the CVA is required, by only paying 20% in the pound owed it masively reduces the debt and makes the club viable and saleable. Look at Southampton thye would not be as strong now if they had not gone into administration and had their debts cleared and the current owners been able to buy them on the cheap debt free or at least reduced.
That said they would still owe £27.6 mill which still looks like a millstone riound their necks if they cannot clear out their players and reduce costs
According to BBC South Today on the day of our takeover - Markus Liebherr purchased the club and made it debt free for a sum 'thought' to be around the region of £30m.
Our debt was just over the £30m mark. So I would say that our debts were paid in full (almost anyway).
On the subject of our administration - At least we were punished for going into administration. Pompey have not been punished.
They got a points deduction, just the same as you did. They were going down anyway so yes it won't feel like they've been punished but the rules are rules. Yes there should be tougher penalties but that's not Pompey's fault.0 -
They got a points deduction, just the same as you did. They were going down anyway so yes it won't feel like they've been punished but the rules are rules. Yes there should be tougher penalties but that's not Pompey's fault.[/quote]
Yep I know they're the rules I just think they've got away with the point deduction as like you say they were on their way down. Why not hold it back until the end of the season like The Football League done with Saints?0 -
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Seems like the sticking point is that it's the players are guaranteed their money whereas everyone else can go whistle...
Typical greedy bastards, how could they potentially let such a club like Portsmouth be faced with such a proposition...? Ought to be very ashamed of themselves...
I reckon this might just be the catalyst that sees the much predicted 'domino effect' where football clubs in bad financial condition go to the wall...0 -
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[quote][cite]Posted By: Saints fan[/cite]They got a points deduction, just the same as you did. They were going down anyway so yes it won't feel like they've been punished but the rules are rules. Yes there should be tougher penalties but that's not Pompey's fault.
Yep I know they're the rules I just think they've got away with the point deduction as like you say they were on their way down. Why not hold it back until the end of the season like The Football League done with Saints?[/quote]
To be fair to Pompey this rule didn't even exist until the Premier League invented it just for them so they would probably claim this was slightly fair on them just in a different way to you.0 -
Nothing will happen to them0
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"That prospect was avoided, however, when Scudamore persuaded the clubs to give Pompey an early parachute payment, allowing them to complete the season."
Didn't realise this. I wonder how much of the parachute payment is already spent.0 -
all of it I would think0
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[cite]Posted By: RedZed333[/cite]Seems like the sticking point is that it's the players are guaranteed their money whereas everyone else can go whistle...
That, and the fact that some of Portsmouth's accounting was very, very shady.
This isn't simply a case of a football club that got behind on it's payments. This is tax evasion, and that's on a different level.0 -
Hate to see a club go out of business but to be honest Portsmouth deserve it. Hard for the fans but the owners have completely abused the club. No business should be run this way and allowed to continue with only a minor slap on the wrist (in comparison to the debt they have generated). I have no issue with the players getting what they were promised in wages though.0
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HMRC lose High Court judgement against Portsmouth.0
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[cite]Posted By: johnny73[/cite]I have no issue with the players getting what they were promised in wages though.
Ahead of the public purse?0 -
[cite]Posted By: Stu of HU5[/cite][cite]Posted By: johnny73[/cite]I have no issue with the players getting what they were promised in wages though.
Ahead of the public purse?
You, being a legal man, can appreciate the need to separate understandable prejudice against over-paid footballers from the legal principle of an employee receiving his or her rightful wages.
That is the point in my view so, to answer the question, yes ahead of the public purse since the public purse will not make good the unpaid wages. (we are not talking redundancy as far as I am aware where the government will fork out the statutory minimum).0 -
HMRC are going to appeal the decision0
