Air India Plane Crash

allez les addicks

I suspect the only potential evidence available to get an insight into how the fuel was cut, will be if an audible sound (resembling the click made by the switch movement) is picked up in the cockpit voice recording at the same time that the data shows that fuel was cut. 

Even then it’s not proof and could just be coincidence (even if it is picked up for both switches), though would make it highly probable that the switches were manually moved by someone in the cockpit (one assumes the person not at the controls given that they and their hands will be otherwise occupied)

MuttleyCAFC

That is probably an improvement that may come out of this in that is the switches are deployed there is an audible 'fuel switch cut off message'.

Baldybonce

I can’t offer much except sent by my FiL who is a retired Air India pilot.

Gribbo

Surely, If the fuel cut-off was caused by a system malfunction or anomaly, the mechanical switches in the cockpit would still remain in the "on" or "open" position. However, if the mechanical switches have been physically moved to the "off" or "closed" position, that would rule out an internal fault and shift the focus back to manual intervention by the cockpit crew?

Genuine question, as I know zero about aircraft and won't even fly in one tbh

CafcWest

Gribbo said:

Surely, If the fuel cut-off was caused by a system malfunction or anomaly, the mechanical switches in the cockpit would still remain in the "on" or "open" position. However, if the mechanical switches have been physically moved to the "off" or "closed" position, that would rule out an internal fault and shift the focus back to manual intervention by the cockpit crew?

Genuine question, as I know zero about aircraft and won't even fly in one tbh

I think that's right - unless there is a software over-ride built in which is probably very unlikely.  It's highly likely that the manual switches operate a relay that does the mechanical switch off of the fuel.  If that is the case then a software over-ride would be technically feasible as the software could operate the relays...but wouldn't physically move the switches, and from what's been reported one of the pilots noticed the physical switches had been moved.

Sheepie1985

I've stepped back from this thread because I'm finding the conspiracy theories quite tiresome and draining to be honest. The evidence from the preliminary report states that the switches were moved by hand, that's what happened. No ifs, no buts, no speculations or assumptions, that's what happened. Now it's all down to why it happened, and that's something that'll take months to years to know, or maybe we'll never know at all.

But honestly, like the no flaps speculation, anything about software malfunctions is all complete nonsense. Please just accept the facts

Gribbo

Sheepie1985 said:

I've stepped back from this thread because I'm finding the conspiracy theories quite tiresome and draining to be honest. The evidence from the preliminary report states that the switches were moved by hand, that's what happened. No ifs, no buts, no speculations or assumptions, that's what happened. Now it's all down to why it happened, and that's something that'll take months to years to know, or maybe we'll never know at all.

But honestly, like the no flaps speculation, anything about software malfunctions is all complete nonsense. Please just accept the facts

I've been of this view since the most recent update was released re' the fuel cut-off switches. Just trying to put it a bit more diplomatically as I ain't got the specific knowledge on this to back it up. 

Sheepie1985

Gribbo said:

Sheepie1985 said:

I've stepped back from this thread because I'm finding the conspiracy theories quite tiresome and draining to be honest. The evidence from the preliminary report states that the switches were moved by hand, that's what happened. No ifs, no buts, no speculations or assumptions, that's what happened. Now it's all down to why it happened, and that's something that'll take months to years to know, or maybe we'll never know at all.

But honestly, like the no flaps speculation, anything about software malfunctions is all complete nonsense. Please just accept the facts

I've been of this view since the most recent update was released re' the fuel cut-off switches. Just trying to put it a bit more diplomatically as I ain't got the specific knowledge on this to back it up. 

It's appreciated, believe me! The rumour mill is going insane since the preliminary came out and quite literally everything is pure speculation being overhyped by the media and youtube "experts" who really don't have a clue.

Usually anytime there's an incident or an accident that wasn't human factors related, we'd have advanced safety bulletins or technical directives issued by the manufacturers, this is a very proactive industry and we jump on such things ASAP. But in this case, there's been absolutely nothing issued, so we had a feeling pretty quickly that this had nothing to do with the aircraft itself, which has since proven to be the case. 

The Red Robin

Sheepie1985 said:

I've stepped back from this thread because I'm finding the conspiracy theories quite tiresome and draining to be honest. The evidence from the preliminary report states that the switches were moved by hand, that's what happened. No ifs, no buts, no speculations or assumptions, that's what happened. Now it's all down to why it happened, and that's something that'll take months to years to know, or maybe we'll never know at all.

But honestly, like the no flaps speculation, anything about software malfunctions is all complete nonsense. Please just accept the facts

Sadly people turn to conspiracies when the facts are boring. Their minds like to seek patterns.

Gribbo

Sheepie1985 said:

Gribbo said:

Sheepie1985 said:

I've stepped back from this thread because I'm finding the conspiracy theories quite tiresome and draining to be honest. The evidence from the preliminary report states that the switches were moved by hand, that's what happened. No ifs, no buts, no speculations or assumptions, that's what happened. Now it's all down to why it happened, and that's something that'll take months to years to know, or maybe we'll never know at all.

But honestly, like the no flaps speculation, anything about software malfunctions is all complete nonsense. Please just accept the facts

I've been of this view since the most recent update was released re' the fuel cut-off switches. Just trying to put it a bit more diplomatically as I ain't got the specific knowledge on this to back it up. 

It's appreciated, believe me! The rumour mill is going insane since the preliminary came out and quite literally everything is pure speculation being overhyped by the media and youtube "experts" who really don't have a clue.

Usually anytime there's an incident or an accident that wasn't human factors related, we'd have advanced safety bulletins or technical directives issued by the manufacturers, this is a very proactive industry and we jump on such things ASAP. But in this case, there's been absolutely nothing issued, so we had a feeling pretty quickly that this had nothing to do with the aircraft itself, which has since proven to be the case. 

There seems to be a general consensus that when this happens, mentioning pilot error (or worse) is considered speculation and should be avoided. However, considering other causes, like mechanical failure, is seen as acceptable - even though such issues would more than likely still trace back to human error in the hangar.

2121

allez les addicks said:

Certain parts of the American media are now briefing that the older pilot who was about to retire had had depression after his mother died, so seem to be pointing the finger in that direction (no doubt based on Boeing sources)

A lot of people have some sort of depression and a lot of peoples mum have died. Like u said, no doubt based on boeing or stakeholders sources, agreed.