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Championship Games 25/26
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i think both can be true. Our 1998 side would likely beat the team we have today, but overall i think the league is better today.
As transfer fees and the money in English football has increased, so to has the level of players teams in this league can sign. Championship teams can now go and spend 5/6/7m on decent quality players from the Dutch league and Scandinavia. Derby who were an average championship team spent 6-7m on a USA national team striker from the MLS. I'm not sure this would've been the case 25 years ago.3 -
Neil Heaney wasn't really part of that side, Robbo was.DOUCHER said:
100% - of that starting line up, nearly all had good chunks of their careers in the top divisionsuperclive98 said:Our team from 1998 would slaughter our current side.
Of the current squad you could possibly argue that Lloyd Jones could replace Eddie Youds, but that's not a gimmee.
I woudn't choose any other current player over that 1998 team.
You also have to remember that Paul Mortimer and Carl Leaburn were part of that squad (Leaburn until Jan).0 -
I think this is where perhaps we've been a bit I don't want to term it as caught out because I don't think it is that entirely.MillwallFan said:
And you’re right about the spending. When you were last in the championship our record transfer fee was still the £800k we had paid for Paul Goddard in the late 80’s. We’ve broken it about ten times since then.MarcusH26 said:
Feels like a totally different league to even our last time up here. The spending has cranked up another notch and the mid table has got a lot more tighter. A lot more European managers and different styles of play too.MillwallFan said:I’ll be honest, when this debate initially came up (on another thread, before the season started) about how the championship had improved and gone up in standard, I was talking about the last 10 or 15 years, back to the last time Charlton were competing regularly in it. And I stand by that.I can remember bits of the 90’s, but most of it was a blur, so I’d struggle to compare then to now to be totally honest.
Spending £3.5m on Kelman for us was a major thing , we'd probably not spent that kind of fee since the prem days or so , even back with Roland's mad European experiments there was a couple of £2m signings but nothing more than that.
It feels like nowadays unless you're willing to gamble in unusual markets like Eastern Europe or Scandinavia to find these " undervalued" leagues and players then you're looking at a substantial outlay.1 -
Hadn't realised he got in team of the year and completely forgot he was at the World Cup. I'd mentioned the stuff I had as he was only recently on a podcast talking about his career and he mentioned how terrible he was at Boro.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Middlesbrough won promotion, got to the league cup final, he was named in the team of the season and he also made the 98 England world cup squad. Not bad for someone who could barely walk.stoneroses19 said:
Agreed. Dropping Gazza and Merson in to the conversation actually helps the argument for why championship is better/stronger now.RC_CAFC said:
For me, It depends what you mean by ‘quality’.DOUCHER said:In 98 we were up against a forest team led by van hydink or whatever his name was , a middlesborough team with gazza and Merson in and we beat Quinn and Phillips at Wembley - I think the quality has dropped tbh - more money, less quality - Middlesbrough r refreshing to watch as they play good football - either the relegated premiership teams pass it round the back bollox or the defend for your lives stuff - give me football 25-30 years ago any day of the week - and 45 years ago and between the mid 30s and late 50’s - Millwall will blow out soon - Barry bannon 😂😂In my opinion, that Middlesboro team with Merson and Gazza wouldn’t hold up well against Middlesboro’s team today. Those two undoubtedly hold more skill and class on the ball and are more entertaining to watch but for fitness, speed, stamina, tactical discipline and defensive shape, they’d be out-played.
I’m not saying what you see today is better to watch, just that I don’t believe in the conditions they were in by the time they dropped to the championship, they would be able to cope with the speed and physicality of it.Yes, both fantastic football minds and great (genius in Gazza) players, but not when they played for Middlesbrough.Merson has even apologised to Boro fans, as he said he was there for money only. Said most games he could barely walk and had no idea what was going on on the pitch. Thankfully, he's turned himself around in later years. But his Boro days are not a good advert for why the championship was better in late 90d.0 -
Agreed. It’s a team game, too. The 97/98 team was clearly more than the sum of its parts and may well be favourites to beat today’s team. However I think there’s an interesting debate about the individual talent of players from then vs today, hence why I (politely!) asked the question. I think most would agree that the game has developed considerably in 25 years.Chris_from_Sidcup said:i think both can be true. Our 1998 side would likely beat the team we have today, but overall i think the league is better today.
As transfer fees and the money in English football has increased, so to has the level of players teams in this league can sign. Championship teams can now go and spend 5/6/7m on decent quality players from the Dutch league and Scandinavia. Derby who were an average championship team spent 6-7m on a USA national team striker from the MLS. I'm not sure this would've been the case 25 years ago.
I don’t think our team from then would piss this league.0 -
If it was just a question of talent then the 1998 team is miles ahead.elbiglad said:
Agreed. It’s a team game, too. The 97/98 team was clearly more than the sum of its parts and may well be favourites to beat today’s team. However I think there’s an interesting debate about the individual talent of players from then vs today, hence why I (politely!) asked the question. I think most would agree that the game has developed considerably in 25 years.Chris_from_Sidcup said:i think both can be true. Our 1998 side would likely beat the team we have today, but overall i think the league is better today.
As transfer fees and the money in English football has increased, so to has the level of players teams in this league can sign. Championship teams can now go and spend 5/6/7m on decent quality players from the Dutch league and Scandinavia. Derby who were an average championship team spent 6-7m on a USA national team striker from the MLS. I'm not sure this would've been the case 25 years ago.
I don’t think our team from then would piss this league.
If that team had the advantages of the current team in respect of nutrition, facilities, medical support, etc then yes, that team would piss this league.0 -
It’s a really interesting debate and one that can never be proved but if they were to play each other now. I would back our current side to win owing to greater fitness levels and game state.superclive98 said:Our team from 1998 would slaughter our current side.Do I think our 98 side were better in their era than our current side now? Yes absolutely. But our current team would scare the hell out of them by Kelman, Carey and TC trying to tackle Rufus and Youds while they were on the ball and they wouldn’t know what was going on!Do I think after a season of conditioning and lifestyle that the players have to adopt now the 98 players could be better? Yes they could.2 -
Respectfully disagree. Perhaps I should've been clearer in my original post that I was talking about how players would fit into today's team, though did try to clarify in a follow up.superclive98 said:
If it was just a question of talent then the 1998 team is miles ahead.elbiglad said:
Agreed. It’s a team game, too. The 97/98 team was clearly more than the sum of its parts and may well be favourites to beat today’s team. However I think there’s an interesting debate about the individual talent of players from then vs today, hence why I (politely!) asked the question. I think most would agree that the game has developed considerably in 25 years.Chris_from_Sidcup said:i think both can be true. Our 1998 side would likely beat the team we have today, but overall i think the league is better today.
As transfer fees and the money in English football has increased, so to has the level of players teams in this league can sign. Championship teams can now go and spend 5/6/7m on decent quality players from the Dutch league and Scandinavia. Derby who were an average championship team spent 6-7m on a USA national team striker from the MLS. I'm not sure this would've been the case 25 years ago.
I don’t think our team from then would piss this league.
If that team had the advantages of the current team in respect of nutrition, facilities, medical support, etc then yes, that team would piss this league.
I am not someone who thinks the older teams played without tactics, and I fully acknowledge that modern terms such as 'high press', 'inverted full backs' and 'low block' are primarily used to try and make people sound smart when talking about tactics. But I do believe there have been huge tactical developments, such as the way teams set up in and out of possession, and technical improvements, look at the ability of defenders and keepers with the ball, that would give today's average Championship team a big advantage over its counterpart from 25 years ago. These players have been coached differently since they were kids. The influx of foreign talent has brought the level up considerably. All of that before you even factor in physical and conditioning improvements.
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DOUCHER said:
Yes but we're building - in management speak lets say we're in the 'forming' stage - you've gone through the forming and norming stage and should now be in the performing / storming stage - have you got enough goals in your team when push comes to shove and coburn has to hold his nerveMillwallFan said:
Hard working but dull side? Are you talking about Millwall or Charlton here? Now I’m confused. You didn’t sign Bannon, we did.DOUCHER said:
You want to add a bit of sparkle,a bit of class to your hard working but dull side - would you say Gazza and Paul Merson - even in their early 30's and past their best - would be worse than a 36 year old barry bannan who has spent his entire career in division 2 and 3?stoneroses19 said:
Agreed. Dropping Gazza and Merson in to the conversation actually helps the argument for why championship is better/stronger now.RC_CAFC said:
For me, It depends what you mean by ‘quality’.DOUCHER said:In 98 we were up against a forest team led by van hydink or whatever his name was , a middlesborough team with gazza and Merson in and we beat Quinn and Phillips at Wembley - I think the quality has dropped tbh - more money, less quality - Middlesbrough r refreshing to watch as they play good football - either the relegated premiership teams pass it round the back bollox or the defend for your lives stuff - give me football 25-30 years ago any day of the week - and 45 years ago and between the mid 30s and late 50’s - Millwall will blow out soon - Barry bannon 😂😂In my opinion, that Middlesboro team with Merson and Gazza wouldn’t hold up well against Middlesboro’s team today. Those two undoubtedly hold more skill and class on the ball and are more entertaining to watch but for fitness, speed, stamina, tactical discipline and defensive shape, they’d be out-played.
I’m not saying what you see today is better to watch, just that I don’t believe in the conditions they were in by the time they dropped to the championship, they would be able to cope with the speed and physicality of it.Yes, both fantastic football minds and great (genius in Gazza) players, but not when they played for Middlesbrough.Merson has even apologised to Boro fans, as he said he was there for money only. Said most games he could barely walk and had no idea what was going on on the pitch. Thankfully, he's turned himself around in later years. But his Boro days are not a good advert for why the championship was better in late 90d.
? If you are going to refer to Tuckman then at least get the order correct!0 -
Modern defenders and keepers might be better on the ball, but I bet the ones from 1998 would deal with corners and long throws way better!0
