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Valley and Sparrows Lane lease extended to 2040
Comments
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This is largely true.Henry Irving said:
There's the rub.msomerton said:How much is the land worth, I know that the Archbishop Tennyson School site which is 1.2acres, of Lease Hold and Free Hold land went for £7.8 million in summer 2024.
Roland based his valuation on housing land in Kensington.
Charlton and New Eltham maybe up and coming but they ain't Kensington.
Plus it would be difficult, although not impossible, to get planning permission for housing on the Valley, even harder on Sparrows Lane so that limits their value to developers.
The figure I heard a few (5?) years ago was £20m to £22m for both but I wouldn't swear to that being the case now.
But £20m is something like 35 to 40 years rent assuming £500+ pa so the owners maybe content to extend the lease, giving more immediate security while chipping away at Roland's stubbornness (my own view, not inside info).
But things can change quickly in football as Luton show.
but whilst Roland wouldn’t be able to find anyone else to pay that amount for the land, he could say we won’t be able find anywhere else with a fully built Premier League ready stadium.Luton are spending £100m+ building their new ground.So even if we found a site in the area able to accommodate a stadium…
Willing buyer willing seller, who blinks first etc etc. he’s got his money badly invested but we don’t have anywhere to go too, so….🤷♂️2 -
Spoken like a true financial advisor lolgolfaddick said:No money to buy them then. RIght-o.0 -
I don't think it'll change with his death either. It'll go to his son and he'll continue to sit there with his annual rent not allowing it to go to the people who were mean to his dad, despite the fact his dad deserved all the grief he got and more.blackpool72 said:Sometimes I just don't understand the mega rich.
If Roland is worth North of a billion pounds then surely a man of his age doesn't need the hassle of owning the Valley and Sparrows Lane.
Just sell at a reasonable price and enjoy what remains of your life.
Unless of course you really are a vindictive old Bastard that some think you are.3 -
Mike Ashley bought the Ricoh Arena for 17m and sold it for 40m (to Coventry current owners)0
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Reckon it's more out of spite tbh, mate. And he (or his successors) will probably still come out the deal on-top, whether hes alive to see or or notblackpool72 said:Sometimes I just don't understand the mega rich.
If Roland is worth North of a billion pounds then surely a man of his age doesn't need the hassle of owning the Valley and Sparrows Lane.
Just sell at a reasonable price and enjoy what remains of your life.
Unless of course you really are a vindictive old Bastard that some think you are.1 -
15 years?DaveMehmet said:Good news. I'll probably be sitting in my own piss in a care home in 15 years time so won't see us leave The Valley againLoving the optimism Dave 😉1 -
It’s just numbers in his portfolio. He’s got everything he needs or wants to own so I doubt he gives The Valley or Sparrows a moment of his thoughts other than when reading the bottom line of his investments a couple of times a year. I personally don’t think it’s vindictive but more that he takes the wrong advice and actually thinks The Valley and training ground are worth his valuation. We’ve experience of his picking odd people to advise and run things for him.blackpool72 said:Sometimes I just don't understand the mega rich.
If Roland is worth North of a billion pounds then surely a man of his age doesn't need the hassle of owning the Valley and Sparrows Lane.
Just sell at a reasonable price and enjoy what remains of your life.
Unless of course you really are a vindictive old Bastard that some think you are.1 -
I believe Archbishop Tennyson School site would be classified 'Brownfield' hence easier to develop which would add to value.msomerton said:How much is the land worth, I know that the Archbishop Tennyson School site which is 1.2acres, of Lease Hold and Free Hold land went for £7.8 million in summer 2024.
That said land in Kennington is almost certainly more expensive than London Borough of Greenwich in any event.2 -
I think you are applying far too much emotion to your thinking. For him and his business it's just a portfolio hold and not hassle at all. A reliable tenant on a 15 year lease is good business. I actually think it's good business for CAFC too. The additional term helps justify additional capital expenditure. It's very much a UK thing to want freeholds when actually it makes little difference in the scheme of things. Many big businesses prefer leases; it all depends on your preference model and gearing. Hopefully they built in security of tenure in this extension which I believe wasn't there before.blackpool72 said:Sometimes I just don't understand the mega rich.
If Roland is worth North of a billion pounds then surely a man of his age doesn't need the hassle of owning the Valley and Sparrows Lane.
Just sell at a reasonable price and enjoy what remains of your life.
Unless of course you really are a vindictive old Bastard that some think you are.2 -
What hassle, can sit on an appreciating asset and get a passive 500k per annumblackpool72 said:Sometimes I just don't understand the mega rich.
If Roland is worth North of a billion pounds then surely a man of his age doesn't need the hassle of owning the Valley and Sparrows Lane.
Just sell at a reasonable price and enjoy what remains of your life.
Unless of course you really are a vindictive old Bastard that some think you are.3 - Sponsored links:
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You and me both mateDaveMehmet said:Good news. I'll probably be sitting in my own piss in a care home in 15 years time so won't see us leave The Valley again0 -
The value of sparrows Lane will likely double in 15 years. I guess he loves money and wants to further increase children's inheritance.
He has a net worth of £1.3 billion pounds.
He looks like Ed Gein in his Wikipedia profile photo.
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Seems like good and bad news all rolled into one.1
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Or not…..as the case may be.Crispywood said:This is realistically the best possible outcome can’t expect the owners to spend double on what the training ground and valley is worth. Hopefully by the end of the lease Duchatelet will have had to give up the assets to someone else in his family and we can buy it for a realistic price
His son (who’s name escapes me), may yet be the proverbial fly in the ointment.🤔0 -
Roland is making money off his charlton assets and he doesn't have to do anything at all.
Maybe if the sparrows Lane toilets get blocked...he may very reluctantly call a plumber!1 -
I don’t know if he is or isn’t…..but he sure as hell acts like one.blackpool72 said:Sometimes I just don't understand the mega rich.
If Roland is worth North of a billion pounds then surely a man of his age doesn't need the hassle of owning the Valley and Sparrows Lane.
Just sell at a reasonable price and enjoy what remains of your life.
Unless of course you really are a vindictive old Bastard that some think you are.0 -
Exactly. Once he sold the club itself, what remains is a passive investment, requiring no involvement at all.CAFCsayer said:
What hassle, can sit on an appreciating asset and get a passive 500k per annumblackpool72 said:Sometimes I just don't understand the mega rich.
If Roland is worth North of a billion pounds then surely a man of his age doesn't need the hassle of owning the Valley and Sparrows Lane.
Just sell at a reasonable price and enjoy what remains of your life.
Unless of course you really are a vindictive old Bastard that some think you are.0 -
If they had announced that we'd bought both The Valley and SL @golfaddick would say that's any transfer budget for the next ten years up in smoke.southamptonaddick said:
Is being miserable the only thing that makes you happy?golfaddick said:No money to buy them then. RIght-o.13 -
Assume there's a clause somewhere that ups it due to inflation etc.Callumcafc said:
No increase in rent costs? GoodHenry Irving said:A source close to the board told me "So would I (want full ownership of the ground and Training ground), and we’ll always work towards that - a step on the journey. No change in terms BTW".
Doubt we'll still be paying the same figure in 15 years than we are today. Otherwise we're technically getting better value every year this continues.0 -
Would rather our owners spend money on the playing team than our ground tbf.
Win promotion and it will be a snip.2 - Sponsored links:
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It isn’t sensible to run with the lease under ten years from an investment perspective, so if nothing else happens we’ll be back here in five years. Not saying it’s not a good thing, just that it’s misleading to think we now have security for 15. Doesn’t work like that.5
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Just because we might negotiate again in 5 years doesn’t mean we aren’t still secure for the next 10. If those negotiations fall we have time to create a solution. That is some form of securityAirman Brown said:It isn’t sensible to run with the lease under ten years from an investment perspective, so if nothing else happens we’ll be back here in five years. Not saying it’s not a good thing, just that it’s misleading to think we now have security for 15. Doesn’t work like that.4 -
According to the programme v Luton in September 1987, the training ground is (or was, then) 18 acres.0
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I’m not sure that’s true. Even if the club did nothing at all there is 15 years of playing at The Valley. Of course in reality the club will have to continue to negotiate on the lease. That’s the nature of leasing anything. To say there’s no security in this new lease is misleading.Airman Brown said:It isn’t sensible to run with the lease under ten years from an investment perspective, so if nothing else happens we’ll be back here in five years. Not saying it’s not a good thing, just that it’s misleading to think we now have security for 15. Doesn’t work like that.0 -
The comment didn’t say “no security” - but I think the important point here is how you define security.ShootersHillGuru said:
I’m not sure that’s true. Even if the club did nothing at all there is 15 years of playing at The Valley. Of course in reality the club will have to continue to negotiate on the lease. That’s the nature of leasing anything. To say there’s no security in this new lease is misleading.Airman Brown said:It isn’t sensible to run with the lease under ten years from an investment perspective, so if nothing else happens we’ll be back here in five years. Not saying it’s not a good thing, just that it’s misleading to think we now have security for 15. Doesn’t work like that.
having a roof over your head today gives you a roof over your head today but i don’t think most people would consider that “secure” if you have to worry that you soon won’t have a roof over your headIf we had a 30 or 50 year lease I think we would have “security”. But in 4-5 years time again we’ll have to be in panic mode.Even if they succeeded in the “next step” of getting us to the premier league, they or any future owner’s hands will be tied in terms of any ongoing progression - because ongoing progression would likely require significant investment in the stadium to compete with other clubs, improve revenue etc, increasingly so as the years tick by - the sort of investment which probably won’t stack up if you only have 8-10 years to get the return on it.2 -
All that said, this is obviously still good - and hopefully merely an interim solution. my worry is that clearly the assets won’t be acquired unless we make the premier league which is an extremely big ask. If we don’t achieve that in 5 years, the ownership could fatigue with the ongoing loss making (see chansiri) and then where would that leave us with the expiring lease…0
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We're just Roland's little plaything it seems, it's like a game to him, seeing us squirm under his rule, the guy is just a nasty piece of work, and until we finally get our hands on the deeds the only thing that changes will be the rent.
At least we have somewhere to play and call home.....just.2 -
This, I doubt it's anything more to it than this. Making money and not having to do anything at all. Only when we reach the Prem or Roland dies is this going to change.Dave2l said:Roland is making money off his charlton assets and he doesn't have to do anything at all.
Maybe if the sparrows Lane toilets get blocked...he may very reluctantly call a plumber!0 -
Roly will be 90 odd by the time we get to 2040.
if the club keeps progressing I’d be surprised if we haven’t agreed to buy it by 20300 -
The school is Kennington, and tied up with covenants etc that limit the use, primarily some thing that can be considered education, half the lands free holder is the duchy of Cornwall that is is the half that you can only buy the leas hold of.Henry Irving said:
There's the rub.msomerton said:How much is the land worth, I know that the Archbishop Tennyson School site which is 1.2acres, of Lease Hold and Free Hold land went for £7.8 million in summer 2024.
Roland based his valuation on housing land in Kensington.
Charlton and New Eltham maybe up and coming but they ain't Kensington.
Plus it would be difficult, although not impossible, to get planning permission for housing on the Valley, even harder on Sparrows Lane so that limits their value to developers.
The figure I heard a few (5?) years ago was £20m to £22m for both but I wouldn't swear to that being the case now.
But £20m is something like 35 to 40 years rent assuming £500+ pa so the owners maybe content to extend the lease, giving more immediate security while chipping away at Roland's stubbornness (my own view, not inside info).
But things can change quickly in football as Luton show.0
