Scouting Department / Summer Transfer Window

SELR_addicks

Surely heads must roll with the loaning out of both Apter and Olaofe only 6 months after spending significant fees on them?

Another one, Knibbs, can barely get in the side.

Fumbluff

Just rename the thread “oops”

CafcSteve

Not even Ronnie will be able to defend it!

fenaddick

Christ did this really need it's own thread

AberystwythAddick

fenaddick said:

Christ did this really need it's own thread

Probably, it’s beyond shocking that this has been allowed to happen 

The Red Robin

SELR_addicks said:

Surely heads must roll with the loaning out of both Apter and Olaofe only 6 months after spending significant fees on them?

Another one, Knibbs, can barely get in the side.

Nathan Jones right now:

Lincsaddick

as Churchill might have put it .. 'our transfer policy is an enigma wrapped in a mystery' .. only the illuminati can comprehend why we waste money and have penchant for signing the weak and infirm

Laddick01

I understand we’re on a budget but we’ve done absolutely nothing in terms of quality recruitment. 

Bell Maybe? But that’s surely Nathan’s pick.

Needs an overhaul because I have no faith in the team.

Scoham

We know Chapple’s been scouting in Turkey and Japan, and I heard Calvin Charlton and another scout watch games in Scotland.

I look forward to our new era in the summer of exciting foreign signings who’ll ultimately loaned out in January 2027 before being sold at a loss.

Er_Be_Ab_Pl_Wo_Wo_Ch

Got to say, I'm struggling to keep the faith here. Perfectly good players, that we have not got the best from, are leaving the building. Other rumoured incomings, mentioned by Cawley, don't sound too great.

shirty5

3 and half million plus spent on 2 players in the summer and both out the door on loan 6 months later.

Not a good look on our recruitment this season 

MarcusH26

Got to be asking serious questions. £3.5m worth of a supposed £12m outlay back on loan to League 1 within 6 months just looks like terrible business. 

usetobunkin

Can’t wait to see how they dress this up. 

What happened to the 8+8+8.
Might as well stick their head in the door of a pub and see if anyone fancies a game Saturday at LB/LWB. A total shambles.

SDAddick

From the summer

Good signings: Carey, Bell, Bree, Kaminski (I'm not having this Mannion is better nonsense, TK is an excellent shot stopper who is lacking in distribution and coming off his line but has saved more goals than he's led to)

Jury's still out: Knibbs, Apter, Burke (who has looked very good at times just can't stay fit), JRC, Kelman (I think were it not for his injury he'd be in the above category)

Don't look good enough: Tanto

That's...a pretty average split of how transfer windows usually go. It's only been six months. I know two of the fees we spent are currently out on loan, but we spent basically League One fees on those two League One players, and both are still young enough that they could improve (in Apter's case, quite easily). And all of the ones in the jury's still out category have had positive impacts (including some crucial goals in the case of Knibbs, JRC, and Kelman). 

It's nowhere near diabolical or our worst transfer window. It's an evolving one and it's still early. 

I know people are frustrated because of Saturday and at losing an exciting player like Apter. But I think our incomings in this window all look like they have a role to play in this squad. It feels a little bit like everyone was clamoring for a squad overhaul, but now everyone is saying "No, not like that." Well an overhaul means...well, incomings and outgoings. 

I will say this and also say I'm not a fan of the manager having total control over transfers. I think that is an outdated model and one where too much control is given to an individual in a precarious position. I think it may have made Jones blind to the injury issues Bell and Burke ("He hasn't had injury issues for me) had coming into the season. And should he need to be sacked (which I think is almost impossible this season, rightly or wrongly), it will leave the next manager with a lot of Nathan Jones players. Worked out okay at Luton, less so Soton and Stoke. 

SELR_addicks

SDAddick said:

From the summer

Good signings: Carey, Bell, Bree, Kaminski (I'm not having this Mannion is better nonsense, TK is an excellent shot stopper who is lacking in distribution and coming off his line but has saved more goals than he's led to)

Jury's still out: Knibbs, Apter, Burke (who has looked very good at times just can't stay fit), JRC, Kelman (I think were it not for his injury he'd be in the above category)

Don't look good enough: Tanto

That's...a pretty average split of how transfer windows usually go. It's only been six months. I know two of the fees we spent are currently out on loan, but we spent basically League One fees on those two League One players, and both are still young enough that they could improve (in Apter's case, quite easily). And all of the ones in the jury's still out category have had positive impacts (including some crucial goals in the case of Knibbs, JRC, and Kelman). 

It's nowhere near diabolical or our worst transfer window. It's an evolving one and it's still early. 

I know people are frustrated because of Saturday and at losing an exciting player like Apter. But I think our incomings in this window all look like they have a role to play in this squad. It feels a little bit like everyone was clamoring for a squad overhaul, but now everyone is saying "No, not like that." Well an overhaul means...well, incomings and outgoings. 

I will say this and also say I'm not a fan of the manager having total control over transfers. I think that is an outdated model and one where too much control is given to an individual in a precarious position. I think it may have made Jones blind to the injury issues Bell and Burke ("He hasn't had injury issues for me) had coming into the season. And should he need to be sacked (which I think is almost impossible this season, rightly or wrongly), it will leave the next manager with a lot of Nathan Jones players. Worked out okay at Luton, less so Soton and Stoke. 

Jury is still out on a player we've just loaned out? 

Bree and Kaminski being considered 'good' signings is very optimistic also. They've been fine, nothing above what Kelman has offered. 

I would say Carey and Bell are our only real success stories from the summer. 

J BLOCK

SELR_addicks said:

Surely heads must roll with the loaning out of both Apter and Olaofe only 6 months after spending significant fees on them?

Another one, Knibbs, can barely get in the side.

Can add Kelman to that list. The money spent last summer has been beyond bad. 

Gisappointed

J BLOCK said:

SELR_addicks said:

Surely heads must roll with the loaning out of both Apter and Olaofe only 6 months after spending significant fees on them?

Another one, Knibbs, can barely get in the side.

Can add Kelman to that list. The money spent last summer has been beyond bad. 

Knibbs and Burke also cost money and have barely played.

DamoNorthStand

SELR_addicks said:

SDAddick said:

From the summer

Good signings: Carey, Bell, Bree, Kaminski (I'm not having this Mannion is better nonsense, TK is an excellent shot stopper who is lacking in distribution and coming off his line but has saved more goals than he's led to)

Jury's still out: Knibbs, Apter, Burke (who has looked very good at times just can't stay fit), JRC, Kelman (I think were it not for his injury he'd be in the above category)

Don't look good enough: Tanto

That's...a pretty average split of how transfer windows usually go. It's only been six months. I know two of the fees we spent are currently out on loan, but we spent basically League One fees on those two League One players, and both are still young enough that they could improve (in Apter's case, quite easily). And all of the ones in the jury's still out category have had positive impacts (including some crucial goals in the case of Knibbs, JRC, and Kelman). 

It's nowhere near diabolical or our worst transfer window. It's an evolving one and it's still early. 

I know people are frustrated because of Saturday and at losing an exciting player like Apter. But I think our incomings in this window all look like they have a role to play in this squad. It feels a little bit like everyone was clamoring for a squad overhaul, but now everyone is saying "No, not like that." Well an overhaul means...well, incomings and outgoings. 

I will say this and also say I'm not a fan of the manager having total control over transfers. I think that is an outdated model and one where too much control is given to an individual in a precarious position. I think it may have made Jones blind to the injury issues Bell and Burke ("He hasn't had injury issues for me) had coming into the season. And should he need to be sacked (which I think is almost impossible this season, rightly or wrongly), it will leave the next manager with a lot of Nathan Jones players. Worked out okay at Luton, less so Soton and Stoke. 

Jury is still out on a player we've just loaned out? 

Bree and Kaminski being considered 'good' signings is very optimistic also. They've been fine, nothing above what Kelman has offered. 

I would say Carey and Bell are our only real success stories from the summer. 

No matter how good he has looked, you can’t call a player who categorically can’t stay fit a success 

Er_Be_Ab_Pl_Wo_Wo_Ch

I don't mind bringing in 10+ players in the summer and some then get moved on, even if they cost money. But that's on the basis the summer signings would include one or two rough diamonds we could polish. It's disappointing that the players departing haven't really been allowed to show their potential.

The signings since the summer - the unattached players in autumn, and now in this window - it all just seems a punt here and a punt there, a bit like some of the recent team selections.

No one happier than me to be proved wrong and that there's some strategic thinking behind all this - I'm not usually negative on here!

NabySarr

Recruitment is not easy, look at every EFL team in the country and their recruitment and you will see that even a 50% success rate is good going 

Bell - success 
Carey - success 

Kaminski, Burke, Kelman and Costello I think are still in the could go either way category 

Knibbs would be in that as I still think he had a lot more to show but injury has been unfortunate. 

Apter - fail
Olaofe - fail 

Yes it’s not the best summer window we’ve ever had, it’s probably not the worst either. But recruitment is so so difficult, especially when you’re on one of the lower budgets in the league you’re playing in 

NabySarr

I also think our approach was very much buying league 1 players that we think we might be able to develop, probably not expecting them all to pay off, but hoping that if 2 or 3 of them do then it will leave us in profit 

We got Carey for free and if we turn him into a 10+ goal a season championship attacking midfielder that will probably cover most of what we paid for them all. Same with Kelman if we can turn him into a championship goal scorer over the next few years he will be worth a lot more than we paid for him 

Kap10

MarcusH26 said:

Got to be asking serious questions. £3.5m worth of a supposed £12m outlay back on loan to League 1 within 6 months just looks like terrible business. 

I'm looking forwa4d to @LouisMend talking to NJ about this

CaptainRobbo

Could've sworn I saw Phil Chappie over Hackney Marshes last week.
All starting to make sense now. 🤔 

MrOneLung

I said it then, and I’ve said it since, always gonna struggle as we brought in League One players to compete in the Championship 

scruffle

I'm hoping that being late to the party via the playoffs and our precieved chances of staying up severely hampered our summer recruitment and ruled us out on even getting close to competing on any championship ready free transfers. Forcing us to have to pay fees for league 1 players only, ones that looked like they could step up. Sadly none have really been given a consistent chance to show if they could step up, or simply aren't good enough yet.

2 million on apter for example would be an extra 12k a week (over a 3 yr contract). If we stay up that kind of budget plus his weekly wage could sign championship level frees, which you'd think we would have better chance with, if by some miracle we stay up this season.

shine166

Shambolic.

ForeverAddickted

Probably doesnt help that Chapple only re-joined us a month before the Summer Transfer Window opened.

We effectively went into one of the biggest Windows without a Head of Recruitment, as planning for this season would have started long before the summer, with us no doubt preparing for both Divisions. But lets be realistic here as well, there is no guaranteed formula to signing players. Every single one you sign is a risk, whether they're young, old, from a higher Division, from the same Division, from a lower Division or abroad

I still get Jones' approach in the summer, signing experienced players that he's worked with at this level, this year we were always going to be up against it, and when you're going into the trenches you want players alongside you that you can trust... Given their records though, it was another gamble though.

Hopefully going forward we'll see a little bit more organisation with Chapple in... Be easier to do some due dilligence etc.

elbiglad

Recruitment is hard. It is an inexact science, and there’s way more that goes into how well a player does than: are they good or not? This is especially true with attacking players. Look at the top 10 Premier League transfers for forwards this summer (this excludes some players like Eze and Wirtz who are attacking midfielders. Prices are in Euros, based off Transfermarkt):

1. Isak - Liverpool - €145m. Didn't light it up when he was playing, but a combination of reasons (no pre season, gelling with team, now injured).
2. Ekitike - Liverpool - €95m. A success.
3. Sesko - Man United - €76.5m. I have been unimpressed and have seen more than one compilation video of his bad misses. Not scored many. Jury is out.
4. Woltemade - Newcastle - €75m. I like him, even if he is a bit awkward. Doesn't seem to fit their style. Decent return. Jury is still out.
5. Bryan Mbeumo - Man United - €75m - a relative success.
6. Matheus Cunha - Man United - €75m - a relative success.
7. Gyokeres - Arsenal - €66.9m. Struggling to get into the team as of late. Poor goal return. Jury is still out.
8. Mohammed Kudus - Tottenham - €63.8m. Injured and won't play most of the season. Spurs fans liked him before that. 
9. Joao Pedro - Chelsea - €63.7m - seems to be doing well, and a decent return. A success
10. Anthony Elanga - Newcastle - €61m. In and out of the team, limited return in terms of assists and goals. Jury is still out.

So ten transfers above €60m and, being generous, I'd say that four are complete successes this year: Ekitike, Mbeumo, Cunha and Joao Pedro. Injuries have curtailed two of the players. The jury is out on the other four. That's the success rate for people spending more than €60m on one player; why would it be any higher when we are spending £1.5-2m?  You have to give players time.

Notable signings from the top 25 that the jury is out on, or could be considered short term failures: Wissa - Newcastle €57m, Ndoye - Forest - €42m, Dibling - Everton €40.5m, Delap - Chelsea - €35m, Tel - Spurs - €35m. 

AberystwythAddick

ForeverAddickted said:

Probably doesnt help that Chapple only re-joined us a month before the Summer Transfer Window opened.

We effectively went into one of the biggest Windows without a Head of Recruitment, as planning for this season would have started long before the summer, with us no doubt preparing for both Divisions. But lets be realistic here as well, there is no guaranteed formula to signing players. Every single one you sign is a risk, whether they're young, old, from a higher Division, from the same Division, from a lower Division or abroad

I still get Jones' approach in the summer, signing experienced players that he's worked with at this level, this year we were always going to be up against it, and when you're going into the trenches you want players alongside you that you can trust... Given their records though, it was another gamble though.

Hopefully going forward we'll see a little bit more organisation with Chapple in... Be easier to do some due dilligence etc.

A chief scout worth his salt would have been keeping a track of multiple targets whether they were in or out of work. 

He would’ve surely been asked to provided brief and a vision for what players he believes will fit Charlton and where to find them. 

Zulu

Firstly, this season, average home attendance for us is 20,237..... Millwall is 16,716. which is a difference of 3,521, now, monetarily that would relate to a rough guide of an extra 1.6 million pounds in ticket sales per season- giving a rough ticket value of 20 pounds. Now, we all know that ticket sales is not the total net value, but 1.6 million is not to be sniffed at.

A few years ago, i commented that we seem to create a lot more value in our players (either via purchases or academy) in our sales than Millwall, when we had the likes of Lookman,Gomez,Pope,Burstow,Aribo,Parker.... the list is almost endless, whereas Millwall have produced not a lot through recent times that were sold on for reasonable money.
However, this seems to have reversed over the past couple of seasons, in that we dont seem to buy or have players coming through the Academy that could be sold on for good money, whereas Millwall, have sold the likes of Flemming,Tanganga etc and have (generally purchased) players who are now worth quite a lot of money (in my valuation) , Azeez,Crama,Mitchell,Taylor,Sturge? for example.

This also seems to have exacerbated in the current window, when Millwall are bringing in the likes of Bannon, whereas we go and get Stockports 3rd choice right back and Gateshead goalie !! 

What appears to be the common denominator in terms of recruitment?...........Steve Gallen .

valleynick66

Rodwell hinting at exotic signings from Japan and Turkey but in reality loans from Wrexham and Stockport. 😆😉