25th February: UK issues a big f***off to its dual nationality citizens.

jimmymelrose

I hesitated over the category for this thread. It’s non Sports related but I’m posting it chiefly for our international fans to discuss and try to understand, although of course everyone’s welcome. As I understand it, yesterday I would have been allowed into the UK but from today, even with a valid French passport and valid ETA I am not. This is ’international Charlton ’ because if for example we got to a relegation dogfight match in April we wouldn’t be able to cross the channel unless by ’small boat’ to see the match.

It was only due to Brexit that I got French nationality, and then when Brexit rules came into force and I had a problem getting back into France I decided to get a French passport. Then on my last trip I had to get an ETA. Now even with an ETA, unlike a single nationality French citizen with the same documents, I will be denied boarding. The irony of course is that it was only due to Brexit that I got dual nationality in the first place and now the same government is telling me that’s a problem.

The solution is to get a British passport too but I’d have to do that for 4 people in our family at a cost of over 400 quid, and of course that’s ’s on top of the French passports and ETAs that we all in the last two years bought.

But it's not the cost that pisses me off so much.......

The big question isn’t so much how the rules work but why. It doesn’t make any sense. It really feels like there’s some vendetta against dual nationality citizens. That sounds paranoïaque I know but until I get some explanation other than because ’computer says no’, I take it as an abuse of power that goes against the declaration of human rights.

Article 13

’Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country’

But what if in future they insist on the certificate of entitlement which now costs £589? Can exorbitant prices be considered as refusing the rights of a citizen?

PragueAddick

I'm duel national too. There are definitely people both in government and in the civil service who don't like us. 

But honestly, why did you let your UK passport lapse?  A second passport is a very valuable asset. Right now when I visit the UK it's a huge advantage to have both passports at the airport or Eurostar terminal. It seems to me that if you had renewed your UK passport you wouldn't have had this problem. Treat it as an investment - not least because you, like me, should be grateful you live in a country which allows dual citizenship. Not every country does. Neither Denmark nor Spain, to name two.

Karim_myBagheri

 Should really just get a passport. ETAs exist in other countries.. 

Edit: just read what I wrote, sorry, I sound really aggressive with that statement, didn't mean to be 

golfaddick

I saw it on the news today but didnt pay 100% attention but I thought it said.....

If you have dual nationality then you can travel with a foreign passport even if your UK one is out of date, as long as you have both with you, although they said to check with your carrier first. And no date issue with regard to your old passport, as long as it was issued after a certain date which was many years ago (told you I didnt pay full attention).  I think it's different to the ETA rules & only applies if you have dual nationality & 2 passports. 

Chizz

It's almost as if turns out that Brexit wasn't a good idea all along...

swords_alive

https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/electronic-travel-authorisation-eta-factsheet-february-2026/

cafcfan

This is a tricky read but kind of suggests that (as per usual) the press might not quite have got their facts right.

https://freemovement.org.uk/will-the-uk-really-ban-dual-nationals-who-dont-have-a-british-passport/

It kind of suggests that you only NEED the UK passport if you intend to claim to have the right of abode here. It's as clear as mud but seems to say that if you are travelling on a non-UK passport, already have the ETA and go through the foreigners channels at passport control there will be no issues.

jimmymelrose

golfaddick said:

I saw it on the news today but didnt pay 100% attention but I thought it said.....

If you have dual nationality then you can travel with a foreign passport even if your UK one is out of date, as long as you have both with you, although they said to check with your carrier first. And no date issue with regard to your old passport, as long as it was issued after a certain date which was many years ago (told you I didnt pay full attention).  I think it's different to the ETA rules & only applies if you have dual nationality & 2 passports. 

This is correct. Taken from the link @swords_alive posted:

Travelling to the UK

As a dual national, you can travel to the UK using either:

a valid UK passport or Irish passport

any other valid passport with a certificate of entitlement

You can apply for a passport or certificate of entitlement if you need one.

When you can travel with an expired UK passport

Your carrier (for example your airline) may allow you to travel if you have both:

an expired UK passport, issued in 1989 or later

a valid passport for one of the nationalities that can get an electronic travel authorisation (ETA)

The personal details on both passports must match.

It is the carrier’s decision whether to allow you to travel.

If you previously had a UK passport, you can apply for an emergency travel document.

You cannot get an ETA if you’re a British or Irish dual citizen.

One thing I don’t understand is the last sentence because I got one in October last year. Does it mean that you can’t get one from today onwards?
Edit (having read the @cafcfan link.) No, dual citizens can’t get one as from today.

jimmymelrose

PragueAddick said:

I'm duel national too. There are definitely people both in government and in the civil service who don't like us. 

But honestly, why did you let your UK passport lapse?  A second passport is a very valuable asset. Right now when I visit the UK it's a huge advantage to have both passports at the airport or Eurostar terminal. It seems to me that if you had renewed your UK passport you wouldn't have had this problem. Treat it as an investment - not least because you, like me, should be grateful you live in a country which allows dual citizenship. Not every country does. Neither Denmark nor Spain, to name two.

This seems to be being wise after the event. Why would I want two passports? How really is it an advantage,  let alone a huge one?

The thing is that I never actually wanted dual citizenship. I got it be because Brexit forced me to do so. Now the same country is not happy about that it seems.

Your point about Spain leaves me curious to know what solution British people living in Spain found after Brexit. They didn’t all just leave. Do they all have to spend less than 183 days in the country now?

jimmymelrose

cafcfan said:

This is a tricky read but kind of suggests that (as per usual) the press might not quite have got their facts right.

https://freemovement.org.uk/will-the-uk-really-ban-dual-nationals-who-dont-have-a-british-passport/

It kind of suggests that you only NEED the UK passport if you intend to claim to have the right of abode here. It's as clear as mud but seems to say that if you are travelling on a non-UK passport, already have the ETA and go through the foreigners channels at passport control there will be no issues.

Thanks for that. If correct that settles the matter, at least until May 2027 when my two boys’ ETAs expire. After that it will be tricky. I’ve been told that they get automatic British citizenship but they’ve never claimed it in any way.

bobmunro

jimmymelrose said:

PragueAddick said:

I'm duel national too. There are definitely people both in government and in the civil service who don't like us. 

But honestly, why did you let your UK passport lapse?  A second passport is a very valuable asset. Right now when I visit the UK it's a huge advantage to have both passports at the airport or Eurostar terminal. It seems to me that if you had renewed your UK passport you wouldn't have had this problem. Treat it as an investment - not least because you, like me, should be grateful you live in a country which allows dual citizenship. Not every country does. Neither Denmark nor Spain, to name two.

This seems to be being wise after the event. Why would I want two passports? How really is it an advantage,  let alone a huge one?

The thing is that I never actually wanted dual citizenship. I got it be because Brexit forced me to do so. Now the same country is not happy about that it seems.

Your point about Spain leaves me curious to know what solution British people living in Spain found after Brexit. They didn’t all just leave. Do they all have to spend less than 183 days in the country now?

Freedom of movement ended on 31 December 2020 - UK citizens already resident in EU countries, and EU citizens already resident in the UK maintained their right to live and work with no restrictions. If you were already resident in France prior to that date then you were fine to stay and you did not need to take French citizenship to do so - all you had to do was apply for a new Residency Permit by 4 October 2021.

The above was part of the withdrawal agreement and applied to the UK and all other EU countries.

iainment

I don’t understand this. If you want to live in another country that’s up to you to manage. If you choose to have another country’s passport and not a UK one surely you’ve said you want to be treated as a non UK subject.

LargeAddick

Why would you want to come over anyway to see a relegation dogfight in April? The other day you were saying NJ’s football is dogshit and you weren’t bothering to watch it anymore.

Athletico Charlton

iainment said:

I don’t understand this. If you want to live in another country that’s up to you to manage. If you choose to have another country’s passport and not a UK one surely you’ve said you want to be treated as a non UK subject.

Yep, don't want to buy an English passport because it costs a few quid (bet you had free education here and come back for the free health care when it suits). Then moan about how you are treated by the UK.  
Maybe I am ready it wrong and if so I apologize but that is how it comes across to me.

Northern_Monkey

Athletico Charlton said:

iainment said:

I don’t understand this. If you want to live in another country that’s up to you to manage. If you choose to have another country’s passport and not a UK one surely you’ve said you want to be treated as a non UK subject.

Yep, don't want to buy an English passport because it costs a few quid (bet you had free education here and come back for the free health care when it suits). Then moan about how you are treated by the UK.  
Maybe I am ready it wrong and if so I apologize but that is how it comes across to me.

I think you writey it wrong.

Let’s just rejoin so we can travel more easily and enjoy croissants and coffee on the continent. Totally understand you play the rules of the game at the time to best suit your situation, and think the constant moving of goalposts is very unhelpful for a number of reasons. 

jimmymelrose

LargeAddick said:

Why would you want to come over anyway to see a relegation dogfight in April? The other day you were saying NJ’s football is dogshit and you weren’t bothering to watch it anymore.

It was an example. Don't worry, I won't be coming, especially if you don't want me to, boss.

jimmymelrose

iainment said:

I don’t understand this. If you want to live in another country that’s up to you to manage. If you choose to have another country’s passport and not a UK one surely you’ve said you want to be treated as a non UK subject.

You clearly haven't understood. I'm happy to be treated as a non British citizen, and be able to get an ETA again.

jimmymelrose

Athletico Charlton said:

iainment said:

I don’t understand this. If you want to live in another country that’s up to you to manage. If you choose to have another country’s passport and not a UK one surely you’ve said you want to be treated as a non UK subject.

Yep, don't want to buy an English passport because it costs a few quid (bet you had free education here and come back for the free health care when it suits). Then moan about how you are treated by the UK.  
Maybe I am ready it wrong and if so I apologize but that is how it comes across to me.

Why would I want to come over intentionally to use an inferior health service? If I got sick in the UK then I would use it of course, the same as you would if necessary visiting France.
All I ask is to be treated as a 'tourist' from my country of residence.
 I think you have read this wrong.

Off_it

Brexit means Brexit. Apparently. 

Which all means that the goalposts moved. But if you get a British passport it sounds like you'll be all sorted again. So surely that's the answer?

jose

Could you go the long way round? Go to the Republic of Ireland on your EU passport, cross the uncontrolled land border there between the EU and the UK, and continue on to London via the Larne-Stranraer crossing?

Rob

I’ve always made sure I’ve kept my UK passport valid. That still has priority for me over my US passport. But, people are entitled to make their own choices. 

Anyway, it sounds like you don’t have an issue after all. 

Rob

jimmymelrose said:

cafcfan said:

This is a tricky read but kind of suggests that (as per usual) the press might not quite have got their facts right.

https://freemovement.org.uk/will-the-uk-really-ban-dual-nationals-who-dont-have-a-british-passport/

It kind of suggests that you only NEED the UK passport if you intend to claim to have the right of abode here. It's as clear as mud but seems to say that if you are travelling on a non-UK passport, already have the ETA and go through the foreigners channels at passport control there will be no issues.

Thanks for that. If correct that settles the matter, at least until May 2027 when my two boys’ ETAs expire. After that it will be tricky. I’ve been told that they get automatic British citizenship but they’ve never claimed it in any way.

You should check whether that right goes away once they reach the age of 18. 

Chizz

jimmymelrose said:

Athletico Charlton said:

iainment said:

I don’t understand this. If you want to live in another country that’s up to you to manage. If you choose to have another country’s passport and not a UK one surely you’ve said you want to be treated as a non UK subject.

Yep, don't want to buy an English passport because it costs a few quid (bet you had free education here and come back for the free health care when it suits). Then moan about how you are treated by the UK.  
Maybe I am ready it wrong and if so I apologize but that is how it comes across to me.

Why would I want to come over intentionally to use an inferior health service? If I got sick in the UK then I would use it of course, the same as you would if necessary visiting France.
All I ask is to be treated as a 'tourist' from my country of residence.
 I think you have read this wrong.

Presumably you'd therefore be happy to be charged for using the NHS if you were admitted to hospital?

AFKABartram

Time for this thread to (br)exit