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EFL Playoffs 25/26 (Saints booted out of final and given 4 point deduction - pg34)
Comments
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Hate to say it, but if Southampton had been breaking the spying rule for every game since Eckert thus accumulating loads of dodgy points, then Wrexham have reason to feel aggrieved.0
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A 2 point deduction per opponent spied on - that penalty has been upheld - if further incidents come out we could expect further points deductions. But I do now think it less likely that there were other incidents.
I didn't realise until now that the Ipswich spying was when they were training up the road from Southampton, at Eastleigh - that makes a difference to the story, as I understand it.
They spied against Oxford - that was deemed a failure (Oxford's new manager bounce after losing to us the week before) - so they gave up after that.
Eastleigh is on their doorstep, Ipswich came their way, easy access to watch an opponent's training session on the matchday. An opportunist strike. That was deemed a success, so why not repeat for the next big game.
It's a plausible sequence. All guesswork of course!0 -
I suspect no one has been sacked yet because if the people at the top knew what was going on they'll have to review their own positions first. If the hierarchy knew what was going on at Oxford, which it seems they did, I would argue, and I'm sure Eckert would too, that they had a duty of care to Eckert to make clear to him that it was a rule break. Did that happen? We don't know, yet.
Again, pure guesswork, it'll all come out in its own time.1 -
Totally agree. They got tonked 5-1 at home by Soton, I'm sure they'll be thinking back to that, too.jose said:Hate to say it, but if Southampton had been breaking the spying rule for every game since Eckert thus accumulating loads of dodgy points, then Wrexham have reason to feel aggrieved.
In a hypothetical world where the Boro spying case was heard prior to the first leg, or even that first leg postponed to allow the hearing, Southampton would have been eliminated at the outset, and Wrexham would have got in by that route. I suspect if the punishment was expected to be elimination - and not many predicted it - I would think Wrexham would have pushed for a postponement. Maybe they did.0 -
Not sure how feasible it would have logistically to have heard the hearing earlier and re-scheduled all the plays offs as teh final would probably have had to be postponed which is a double issue with Wembley being booked up and then the World Cup. The WC really adds to the timing complications and any postponement of the final would impact the pre-season prep, notably signings of the eventual winner.Er_Be_Ab_Pl_Wo_Wo_Ch said:
Totally agree. They got tonked 5-1 at home by Soton, I'm sure they'll be thinking back to that, too.jose said:Hate to say it, but if Southampton had been breaking the spying rule for every game since Eckert thus accumulating loads of dodgy points, then Wrexham have reason to feel aggrieved.
In a hypothetical world where the Boro spying case was heard prior to the first leg, or even that first leg postponed to allow the hearing, Southampton would have been eliminated at the outset, and Wrexham would have got in by that route. I suspect if the punishment was expected to be elimination - and not many predicted it - I would think Wrexham would have pushed for a postponement. Maybe they did.
There really is no perfect outcome, unfortunately0 -
This is based on the period that the third tier has been named League One (2004-present). Had it been of all-time I think the Man City v Gillingham Div.2 final in 99 is still the highest.
If our opponents on both occasions sold out their allocations like we did, we would easily have the record for highest attended third tier final of all time.
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Surely this can't be right, us and Sunderland sold out our final but orient didn't sell out their end last yearCAFCTrev said:This is based on the period that the third tier has been named League One (2004-present). Had it been of all-time I think the Man City v Gillingham Div.2 final in 99 is still the highest.4 -
I don’t think Sunderland sold as many as us for the Bauer final.6
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Now the M25...🤔RodneyCharltonTrotta said:Addickted2TheReds said:Where does Eckert go from here after a, surely, inevitable departure?Will anyone else hire him?
MI6.0 -
Yes, Man City v Gillingham is the highest all time for that division with 76,935.CAFCTrev said:This is based on the period that the third tier has been named League One (2004-present). Had it been of all-time I think the Man City v Gillingham Div.2 final in 99 is still the highest.
Had our opponents on both occasions sold out their allocations like we did, we would easily have the record for highest attended third tier final of all time.1 -
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Did Gillingham provide the 6,935?9
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Sunderland didnt sell out their allocation, the reasons cited at the time were their other Wembley game in the EFL Trophy a few weeks before, and their poor record in playoff finals.Cafctekkers said:
Surely this can't be right, us and Sunderland sold out our final but orient didn't sell out their end last yearCAFCTrev said:This is based on the period that the third tier has been named League One (2004-present). Had it been of all-time I think the Man City v Gillingham Div.2 final in 99 is still the highest.2 -
Dan's a fantastic manlordromford said:EugenesAxe said:
Said the man in the orthopaedic shoesCharltonManor1966 said:
Absolutely- I stand corrected. My apologiescafcfan said:
Groucho Marx wasn't it?CharltonManor1966 said:
CL is an excellent forum!eastterrace6168 said:
D'ya know what, the more of these "other" forums I read just makes CL look really good and well laid out...robroy said:If anyone fancies a read of their forum when the S&*t hit the fan, here we go.
Saints Expelled from Playoffs - The Saints - SaintsWeb
Some excellent reading on there haha
I am on it with the maxim of WC Fields who said
"I wouldn't want to be a member of any club (forum) that would have me as a member"......
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I have no crystal 🔮 but why do I feel like we will get a lot of ex pro's who aren't multi millionaires but who are between 50+ 90 and will earn a few grand in telling stories about the different ways in which information was garnered about tactics, new free kicks and 'spying' in the past.
You would need to be naive if you think this is just Southampton, just like you would need to have blinkers on if you don't realize the insider info on horse racing from Jockey's, stable lads + lasses, owners, trainers and connections isn't rife in the betting reliant world of Horse racing.
Bottom line is don't get caught and the 'Saints' did and have paid the price which could get worse if more damming info comes out.
I honestly though that was a spoof picture of Will Salt originally as I couldn't believe that such an amateur approach would be taken in this age of spying technology.
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True, but I would only have sympathy for the fans who said to them that they were acting like a twit and embarrassing everyone. It seems to me that the other fans were complicit. I come to this conclusion by having gone on their fan forum before the punishment was given. All, and I mean all, seemed to think it was a big lark.fenaddick said:
But not all 37,000 fans who bought tickets were acting like that. If a few of our fans acted like numpties and you lost thousands of pounds would you say "oh no it's fine I've lost money because someone I don't know acted like a twit so I don't deserve sympathy"?DamoNorthStand said:Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I don't feel sorry for the club, i said i feel sorry for the fans who've spent thousands travelling up and down the country watching their team.charltonkeston said:
Yet up until yesterday afternoon there was nothing from the Saints fans about being let down. I don't doubt they now feel very let down. I felt let down my team let 5 goals past them before halftime, I'm now feeling maybe there was more to this other than woeful defending. Probably wrong but I bet I'm not the only one and that goes for other clubs that got steam rolled along the way.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I do, they've been totally shafted by the actions of their manager and his staff.charltonkeston said:
That's exactly my take. They have admitted cheating and conveniently been allowed to plead guilty with evidence that conveniently doesn't appear to have damaged the main competition, the league. I have trouble believing they spied on two league games only. Why those two and not more or even every one they played in? So a 4 points deduction for that alone I'd say was pretty lenient. But they also admitted cheating in the play offs and were hit with expulsion from the competition, the ultimate sanction. I think they may of got off lightly here, cheating like this cannot be tolerated and for once I think EFL has got the punishment pretty spot on although I would have awarded all 3 points to the two teams they have admitted spying on but they would have obviously complicated matters somewhat.MuttleyCAFC said:I suspect they spied on more than Oxford and Ipswich. They have admitted those two as, conveniently, it doesn't affect anything directly in the table. Ipswich got promoted and were way behind Coventry and Oxford finished four points below West Brom. I suspect, they knew it would come out that it wasn't a one off and admitting to only two, they thought would be less damaging in terms of punishment and might prevent the EFL digging further. I said this before it came out that they almost certainly will have history of doing it under this manager. Whatever anybody says, including ex players, it absolutely gives them a potential advantage. Why Oxford and not some other club? If it does come out, they may face a much stiffer punishment than minus four points next season.
In terms of an appeal, it will be heard by different people appointed by the league. I would expect they will not look at everything using a blank sheet, including the punishment but instead look at the robustness of the decision against possible future legal challenge. I wouldn't give Southampton much chance of winning the appeal. We slag of the EFL enough but they have acted in the interests of the game here and I doubt this sort of cheating will happen again.
I expect the FA will now want to have a good look at this, nothing brings the game in to more disrepute than cheating. I would think they, (the FA), will charge Southampton as a club and a few employees with bringing the game into disrepute and a few other charges that I can't think of.
I don't feel sorry for the Saints fans whatsoever, they have also gained from cheating, it might not of have been their doing but my god didn't they enjoy themselves at others expense, a really good run and a huge belly laugh at Middlesbrough and many in fancy dress, tossers. Quite a few of them have mentioned the 115 elephants in the room Man City have but miss the point they are not part of that and will remain no part of that league or organisation for at least another season, not that they really took part in that league during to one prior to the one we just finished.
If you were a Southampton fan who's spent thousands of pounds watching your team home and away this season, travelling hundreds of miles for most away games, then i'm sure you'd be pretty fucked off at this. Yes they got to see a lot of wins but ultimately it's a completely wasted season and was all for nothing. It could even set them back a couple of years as some of their better players will surely be sold and they'll probably soon be looking for a new manager.
Most fans i've seen online are saying their club has totally let them down.
To be honest and I don't think I'm alone in this, I want every team to suffer other than Charlton so I really don't feel sorry for a club that has be found guilty of one of the worse things in sport, cheating.
The fans who were acting like wankers making binoculars signs like it was a big joke in the semi final? Fuck em.1 -
Given that Southampton's chief executive had emailed staff saying the club are confident they can reverse the decision (regarding their expulsion from the Playoff final) it suggests they feel they have done no wrong, but the EFL report into the affair described it as "a contrived and determined plan from the TOP DOWN to gain a competitive advantage" which suggests it was more than just authorised by Tonda Eckert.
Saints is hardly an appropriate name for them now is it.
Should Southampton no longer be referred to by their nickname of The Saints but rather now the CHEATS ?
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From Saints to Sinners.0
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Nah, finals at Wembley are all that count, and we are the greatest...🙄clive said:2 -
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Is it essential to have an extra long left arm to be an Agricultural Consultant?Chizz said:14 -
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I’ve thought this for a while and have only seen vague statements by players expressing disappointment at events. The FA investigation should be interesting if they dig for long enough.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Hard to imagine they didn't know what was going on.RedRobin said:Worth noting the Charlton connection here. Ben Garner is Eckert’s right hand man and Ben Reeves is also a first team coach, both you’d expect would know this is wrong! What a mess and a shame if they are involved in this nonsense.
Surely when Eckert and his staff sat to discuss tactics before a game there would've been some mention of "the intern saw this" or "this player is fit and training" or "it looks like they will line up like this"0 -
PWR
I wonder if boro had released players for the summer and had to call them back in?0 -
I think they were aware this outcome was a possibility.2
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I think Hellberg new they had a very very good chance of being in the final based on his comments at full-time and even before the 2nd leg.DA9 said:PWR
I wonder if boro had released players for the summer and had to call them back in?0 -
So not fronting out total strangers makes you complicit?jimmymelrose said:
True, but I would only have sympathy for the fans who said to them that they were acting like a twit and embarrassing everyone. It seems to me that the other fans were complicit. I come to this conclusion by having gone on their fan forum before the punishment was given. All, and I mean all, seemed to think it was a big lark.fenaddick said:
But not all 37,000 fans who bought tickets were acting like that. If a few of our fans acted like numpties and you lost thousands of pounds would you say "oh no it's fine I've lost money because someone I don't know acted like a twit so I don't deserve sympathy"?DamoNorthStand said:Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I don't feel sorry for the club, i said i feel sorry for the fans who've spent thousands travelling up and down the country watching their team.charltonkeston said:
Yet up until yesterday afternoon there was nothing from the Saints fans about being let down. I don't doubt they now feel very let down. I felt let down my team let 5 goals past them before halftime, I'm now feeling maybe there was more to this other than woeful defending. Probably wrong but I bet I'm not the only one and that goes for other clubs that got steam rolled along the way.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I do, they've been totally shafted by the actions of their manager and his staff.charltonkeston said:
That's exactly my take. They have admitted cheating and conveniently been allowed to plead guilty with evidence that conveniently doesn't appear to have damaged the main competition, the league. I have trouble believing they spied on two league games only. Why those two and not more or even every one they played in? So a 4 points deduction for that alone I'd say was pretty lenient. But they also admitted cheating in the play offs and were hit with expulsion from the competition, the ultimate sanction. I think they may of got off lightly here, cheating like this cannot be tolerated and for once I think EFL has got the punishment pretty spot on although I would have awarded all 3 points to the two teams they have admitted spying on but they would have obviously complicated matters somewhat.MuttleyCAFC said:I suspect they spied on more than Oxford and Ipswich. They have admitted those two as, conveniently, it doesn't affect anything directly in the table. Ipswich got promoted and were way behind Coventry and Oxford finished four points below West Brom. I suspect, they knew it would come out that it wasn't a one off and admitting to only two, they thought would be less damaging in terms of punishment and might prevent the EFL digging further. I said this before it came out that they almost certainly will have history of doing it under this manager. Whatever anybody says, including ex players, it absolutely gives them a potential advantage. Why Oxford and not some other club? If it does come out, they may face a much stiffer punishment than minus four points next season.
In terms of an appeal, it will be heard by different people appointed by the league. I would expect they will not look at everything using a blank sheet, including the punishment but instead look at the robustness of the decision against possible future legal challenge. I wouldn't give Southampton much chance of winning the appeal. We slag of the EFL enough but they have acted in the interests of the game here and I doubt this sort of cheating will happen again.
I expect the FA will now want to have a good look at this, nothing brings the game in to more disrepute than cheating. I would think they, (the FA), will charge Southampton as a club and a few employees with bringing the game into disrepute and a few other charges that I can't think of.
I don't feel sorry for the Saints fans whatsoever, they have also gained from cheating, it might not of have been their doing but my god didn't they enjoy themselves at others expense, a really good run and a huge belly laugh at Middlesbrough and many in fancy dress, tossers. Quite a few of them have mentioned the 115 elephants in the room Man City have but miss the point they are not part of that and will remain no part of that league or organisation for at least another season, not that they really took part in that league during to one prior to the one we just finished.
If you were a Southampton fan who's spent thousands of pounds watching your team home and away this season, travelling hundreds of miles for most away games, then i'm sure you'd be pretty fucked off at this. Yes they got to see a lot of wins but ultimately it's a completely wasted season and was all for nothing. It could even set them back a couple of years as some of their better players will surely be sold and they'll probably soon be looking for a new manager.
Most fans i've seen online are saying their club has totally let them down.
To be honest and I don't think I'm alone in this, I want every team to suffer other than Charlton so I really don't feel sorry for a club that has be found guilty of one of the worse things in sport, cheating.
The fans who were acting like wankers making binoculars signs like it was a big joke in the semi final? Fuck em.3 -
The more I think about it, the more I'm buying the idea that we were spied on before the home game. I've just gone back over the season up to that point, trying to recall where we were - as a club - prior to that game. We hadn't let i in more than one at the Valley in any game; we were very unlucky to lose to Wrexham in the previous game and we'd had time to regroup in the international break; although we suddenly had injuries at the back. Lloyd Jones may not have been fully fit. Southampton were showing early signs of new manager bounce.
Funny things happen in football and they did in this league last season. Many would have done a double take when they saw our result at Portman Road. But that was hardly "clinical", at least not until after we'd hing on to the half time break and then later made some subs, one of whom decided it was time to be "unplayable" to quote Louis Mendez. Nobody could remotely suggest it was all part of a plan based on superior tactical knowledge.
Southampton probably would have won that game, given our injuries at the back. But the way they did it..4 goals in 8 minutes and looking like it could be 6-7 by H-T as Brownie feared...can you ever recall anything like that the Valley? It certainly wasn't like that against Chelsea despite the scoreline and their technical superiority being obvious throughout. I'd have to go back to the mid 80's when we lost 5-1 at home to Rotherham. Tony Towner and Ronnie Moore ran riot at their leisure. But we were a shambles of a club and Ken Craggs was sacked after that game.
There are of course counter-arguments, but it's the sheer precision of how Southampton played in that first half that stands out now. I found it quite chilling at the time, and remember wondering if about 8 of ours were playing with colds or something.
Stinks.29
