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POST-MATCH THREAD: Stoke City v Charlton Athletic: Saturday 5th September 2026: KO 12:30
Comments
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Leave off, we were 4 down at HT, it doesn't make the team selection correct because we played well for 10 mins.Crispywood said:Feel for Jones today, arguably the biggest game of the season for him personally and was let down by some absolute stupid player errors. When you get outplayed the manager usually takes a lot of responsibility and rightly so but we battered them for the opening 10-15 and then the players made mistake after mistake at 1-0 and lost their heads.I don’t believe he got it wrong today otherwise we would have been outplayed from minute 1, players making non-league errors is not the manager getting it wrong
NB I'm not blaming Jones and can see why he did it, but it clearly didn't work.6 -
Did you watch much football in the 90s Callum?Callumcafc said:
That’s aggression, not intensity. A modern team would run rings around a side of that era.Southbank said:
Have you watched those guys sliding on mud and ice and kicking seven bells out of each other?Callumcafc said:
Because the game wasn’t as intense in the 90s.DamoNorthStand said:
Is this a modern day thing? Back in the 90s I swear this wasn’t a thing for example.AberystwythAddick said:
We play Saturday midweek Saturday midweek Saturday midweek. We can’t play our best 11 every week players need to restct_addick said:Note to NJ…we are not a Man City or Liverpool…we don’t have strength in depth….play your best XI available10 -
So, to sum it all up. It was just a bad day at the office and these things happen once in a while, especially when you come up against a very bad referee.
So.....no point being glum. We have 10 points from 5 games, which is promotional form and would have bitten your arm off at the start of the season.
Finally, no need to panic. Things will be back on track Wednesday when we will rotate the squad again, bringing back the players that won the first 3 matches. We will put QPR to the sword, followed by the usual 3- points against Pompey.
I've got that right, yes ? Good-o.4 -
I saw and have seen enough yes. :-)Off_it said:
Did you watch much football in the 90s Callum?Callumcafc said:
That’s aggression, not intensity. A modern team would run rings around a side of that era.Southbank said:
Have you watched those guys sliding on mud and ice and kicking seven bells out of each other?Callumcafc said:
Because the game wasn’t as intense in the 90s.DamoNorthStand said:
Is this a modern day thing? Back in the 90s I swear this wasn’t a thing for example.AberystwythAddick said:
We play Saturday midweek Saturday midweek Saturday midweek. We can’t play our best 11 every week players need to restct_addick said:Note to NJ…we are not a Man City or Liverpool…we don’t have strength in depth….play your best XI available
The game evolves, just as a team of the 90s would've likely dominated a team from the 60s and I'm sure a team from 2056 would dominate today's sides.2 -
Amazing how many times you post on a thread when we lose.golfaddick said:So, to sum it all up. It was just a bad day at the office and these things happen once in a while, especially when you come up against a very bad referee.
So.....no point being glum. We have 10 points from 5 games, which is promotional form and would have bitten your arm off at the start of the season.
Finally, no need to panic. Things will be back on track Wednesday when we will rotate the squad again, bringing back the players that won the first 3 matches. We will put QPR to the sword, followed by the usual 3- points against Pompey.
I've got that right, yes ? Good-o.4 -
So frustrating -
A tremendous start - they were creeking under the pressure and then that utter wally of a ref ruined it.
The rest is not worth taking about.
We will see a reaction.
And I think we will win 2-0 assist QPR.
We owe them at the very least.
Onwards and upwards.4 -
There was only one relegation place to avoid given the collapse of one, and a points deduction from another yet we still finished 19th... Take those factors away even the West Brom points deduction and we still wouldn't have gone down.KingKinsella said:
The football in his tenure has been dreadful, but he's earnt the right to have an another crack this season and is trying to play more attacking style. Unfortunately for him the points deductions so far have been minimal, so 3 clubs will fight it out to stay up, unlike last season where there was one non starter, another collapsed in late January leaving only one relegation place to avoid. I don't want Charlton to fail, but he now trying to change the style, which I approve, but will this will really test his abilities and is a big risk-can the defensive strength be maintained? Probably not.Can it be replaced by more goals for? It's very early in the season so we'll see.Chunes said:I might be wide of the mark, but I can sense there's an anti-NJ element to our support who are just waiting for enough ammo to have another pop at him.3 -
0% Top 2
0% 3-4
1% 5-6
2.5% 7-8
4.5% 9-12
83% 13-21
9% The big R
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During the week you could feel the over excitement in Charlton fans, we’re looking good (well point wise at least and we still are) , scum struggling and lots of injuries ha ha they’ve got Dykes playing he’s’ shit and finally palace are going down they’ve not got Ian Wright , Zaha , Glasner and then the weekend arrives and you’re reminded why football is soooooo fucking painful and has been the last dozen or so years as those cnuts outperform us and have finished above us for what is probably the longest time ever , their best years and our worst years , will it ever fucking end .12
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I'd say the 90s was the best era for football - still a physical game, but played at a good pace, with plenty.
Whether a team from today would beat their equivalent from that era is another question. Although, the 90s team would probably finish the game with about five men left on the pitch!1 -
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I'm going to keep my head high as I think we all should. Arguably we can pin the result on a botched rotation but I don't think we should focus on that too much. We have had a phenomenal start but there's 41 games to go one bad result doesn't mean the season is over. I'm sure we'll have a few more points by the time of the international break and once that's over we will have a few players returning from injury which should make rotation easier. There's also plenty of time for Ouma and Skipp to figure it all out. We have a better squad than last year it's just down to NJ to figure out the good and bad and how to keep them healthy and I think we are definitely going to be better than last year maybe just phone the league and ask them to make sure we only play on weekends at the valley just to be sure.5
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You are quite right,it is generational,I think the current younger generation does lack a lot of energy and just does not have the zest for life that us oldies had.At 16 years old I would get up sunday mornings,early get a bus to god knows where,play a game,come home at god knows what time and still probably go and have a kick a bout with some mates.Ask the average teenager to go anywhere without being collected at the front door,with his mobile in hand and you will be laughed at.Local sport is dying out,no squash courts anymore,football pitches being dug up,golf courses closing by the dozen,and this carries on right up to the top level where footballers cant or dont want to play twice a week.jimmymelrose said:
Is this not a generational thing that is true also in other contexts away from football 🤔?thickandthin63 said:
We also played Christmas day and boxing day,we also had much smaller squads,I remember Liverpool winning the league using only 14 players,we also had replays,2nd replays and sometimes even more,also no subs,so minor knocks and even more serious knocks had to be put up with,no international breaks,international games played midweek.Week after week,clubs played the same 11,no resting or rotating,so why cant players play 40-50 games a season today.PragueAddick said:
There certainly were evening league games in the 60s, 70s and 80s. We also used to play Good Friday, Easter Saturday, and Easter Monday. I kid you not.golfaddick said:
When questioned I keep being told that football of today is not the same as yesteryear. Even though players are fitter & have better game prep, esp around food.DamoNorthStand said:
Is this a modern day thing? Back in the 90s I swear this wasn’t a thing for example.AberystwythAddick said:
We play Saturday midweek Saturday midweek Saturday midweek. We can’t play our best 11 every week players need to restct_addick said:Note to NJ…we are not a Man City or Liverpool…we don’t have strength in depth….play your best XI available
I counter that with teams of 30/40 years ago played on mud heaps from December onwards & there was more "action"......defenders didnt spend 2 mins passing the ball between themselves at a snail's pace.
But we must listen to the experts who tell us football is not the same & you can't expect a fit 21 year old to play sat / wed / sat.
Perhaps someone should tell the EFL that so that clubs are allowed a bigger squad size.
However what we did not have then was the increasing number of European club games, affecting PL clubs, but affecting the rest because there is then pressure on the FA and EFL cup dates. And now you have the international break, which really compresses things. Nor back then did we access to lots of young talented players at reasonable cost, such as Ouma, who nevertheless arrive froma far more leisurely environment. I have never watched any Polish league games, but in terms of quality, type of player, and playing style of the Polish teams, its very similar to Czech. He was playing for the Polish champions, they will have 3-4 serious challengers, the rest are dross, Lech Poznan will go there, and in front of about 3k fans stroll to victory. You remember Tomáš Řepka the Czech defender who played for West Ham? He collected cards like he was building a collection, we always wanted him to start against us. But at age of 33 he went back to CZ with Sparta, they played him as a sweeper. I watched him the first time I went to Viktoria. He was a revelation in that role. But it was because in that league you have the time. You havent got some pesky Johnny Robinson itching to ruin your day. It is nowhere near as intense as in England, and there are nowhere near as many important games.
The younger generation statistically drink less and have sex less, for example.
They are more anxious, get stressed more easily, suffer more from depression, commit
more self-harm
- just google these issues for millenials and generation Z.
They also, it seems to me, party less, don’t ever ever ever dance, and generally have less fun (OPINION)
This all then influences arguments in football that the demands are too high: they are at risk of injury, the stress is too great, tiredness is too prevalent etc.
Is the game faster and more physical now,I dont think so ,teams spend half the time passing about in their own half at walking pace.
Also players are more protected now,physical contact is almost outlawed.
Just an opinion about the penalty yesterday,if you look at the incident,i think it was a clear foul,but,you will see that 100 times on tv over the weekend and it wont be given,so why this pompous prick played god i dont know.But here is the thing,all this holding is really farcial and annoying to see,giving that penalty early completely stamped it out for the rest of the game,so perhaps if the refs got on the same page we might see the end of it.2 -
The first game this season I haven't watched live or on TV and looks like I dodged a bullet. I got a message saying Ouma is looking mustard but by the time I saw it we were 2-0 down, evidently the wheels fell off big time and seems the ref contributed to that.
Having not seen it, I can't really add much to the discussion other than changing the entire centre of the midfield, especially with 2 relatively new players in there, was a very risky thing to do in an away game. Hopefully, we bounce back versus QPR.
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Yesterday everything seemed to go wrong following the soft penalty. Would be nice to see consistent refereeing....
A very strange game of football.
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Interesting that Nathan said in his interview with Louis that our Net Spend this summer is £1.5m. Good from the financial/SCR perspective.6
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On this topic I like to refer to the excellent Twitter page: https://x.com/Crap90sFootballCallumcafc said:
I saw and have seen enough yes. :-)Off_it said:
Did you watch much football in the 90s Callum?Callumcafc said:
That’s aggression, not intensity. A modern team would run rings around a side of that era.Southbank said:
Have you watched those guys sliding on mud and ice and kicking seven bells out of each other?Callumcafc said:
Because the game wasn’t as intense in the 90s.DamoNorthStand said:
Is this a modern day thing? Back in the 90s I swear this wasn’t a thing for example.AberystwythAddick said:
We play Saturday midweek Saturday midweek Saturday midweek. We can’t play our best 11 every week players need to restct_addick said:Note to NJ…we are not a Man City or Liverpool…we don’t have strength in depth….play your best XI available
The game evolves, just as a team of the 90s would've likely dominated a team from the 60s and I'm sure a team from 2056 would dominate today's sides.
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That depends on whether you had a ref from the 90s or from 2026. If you had a ref from the 90s, it would be the 2026 team who’d finish with fewer players because they’d be getting constantly booked for holding, shirt pulling and time wasting through feigning injury.Gribbo said:I'd say the 90s was the best era for football - still a physical game, but played at a good pace, with plenty.
Whether a team from today would beat their equivalent from that era is another question. Although, the 90s team would probably finish the game with about five men left on the pitch!
Besides, I think people are getting confused between the 70s and the 90s. Teams were dirty in the 70s; they’d often be intentionally fouling the opposition, but this impression comes from videos of Leeds and Chelsea online. If you watch the Big Match revisited on TV you’ll see that it wasn’t really that bad.
In the 90s you still had the attitude that ’he was going for the ball’ when he caught the man and ’he played the ball first’ when he then caught the man, but there wasn’t so much of an intention to foul.
Ultimately, the difference between the two eras was that before, players fouled with their legs and feet, and now they foul with their arms and hands.
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In lighter news, it's been announced that Robert Madley has been awarded the freedom of the City of Stoke.
Which is nice for him.18 -
A lot of focus on the personnel NJ selected but it was predominantly a tactical error which he took too long to recognise.They outnumbered us in midfield and had two up top against out two CBs (something CBs don’t seem to be able to handle/train for these days, maybe because it’s not something they often face any more). Going forward we were struggling to get the ball to stick other than the early flurry. It did make Skipp and Ouma’s job tricky in the middle of the park, particularly against a slick technician like Galbraith who can always find the spare man. I wonder if that played a part in Ouma’s performance.Once TC was taken off and the formation changed, Stoke looked pretty unremarkable.These things happen. A reminder to the team that we need to grind out every win in this league. Nothing will come easy for us.4
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Not a criticism @oohaahmortimer , but where do you get your percentages from mate...oohaahmortimer said:0% Top 2
0% 3-4
1% 5-6
2.5% 7-8
4.5% 9-12
83% 13-21
9% The big R3 -
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@Martinspringle
thanks for a really instructive post, the detail about how assessors do their work was especially insightful.
I dont spend much time on X especially re Charlton nowadays , but I saw a Stoke fan claiming it was a stonewall pen. And I suddenly realised that on the audio, there was no appeal from the Stoke fans when this “stonewall “ offence happened, just an embarrassed cheer a couple of seconds later when they realised they’d got given a gift, and as you say, there were no appeals from the players either. I'm surprised Brownie didn't make a point of that yesterday. He's usually making the point that if a ref isn't quite sure, he can tell quite a lot from how the players have reacted. That's certainly true of that absolutely diabolical non-corner decision .3 -
But not that we did not get a good 10 or a good right winger. The lack of a consistent 10 is already evident and will lead to us being overrun in midfield again this season.Pelling1993 said:Interesting that Nathan said in his interview with Louis that our Net Spend this summer is £1.5m. Good from the financial/SCR perspective.3 -
The issue yesterday was the midfield and will continue to be this season, because we didn't do enough in the summer.
Chalobah - good player but will play less than half the season
Ouma - worse than what we had
Skipp - time will tell but feels like a punt late on in the window
I think we've strengthened all over the pitch but midfield will be a problem for us again this season.10 -
The Sky highlights package is up on the OS now, and I think it makes you right. DM's hand briefly goes up, albeit crooked arm, before extending out at 90 degree angle for quite a long time as he approaches Madley. The close up only shows his arm out wide, so Madley would need to have seen him approach, and I'm not sure he did because he's in "dialogue" with Bell and Mesik right in front of him. But now I see that, I have to concede there was something like a "card simulation" in which case you are right to criticise DM for coming such a long way to make his point. But then, he would not have been on a yellow if Madley and the lino had carried out their most basic task a couple of minutes earlier.fenaddick said:
Weirdly I haven’t seen it anywhere, I saw it once during the game and that’s it. It was from one of those far away, lower quality type cameras. With a bigger telly it might have been more obvious but I just saw him waving his hand around. I guess we also don’t know the context of what he was saying at the time which could be a contributing factorPragueAddick said:
That’s your opinion, but is not the subject of my post. The rule is new , and its very specific. Its also very easy to spot, unlike the other new guidance on grappling which Madley was also interested in showing he could apply when no one else in the ground could see it.fenaddick said:
NJ said it was for the gesture which means Madley thinks that’s what he saw. Regardless of all that, it’s silly of McNamara to run over to do that when in theory the rule is only the captain can approach the ref. That means he’s already making the ref twitchy. He’s a senior pro playing in a match where his team needed leadership and a cool head and he did the oppositePragueAddick said:Really, somebody, prove me wrong.
Can we just first agree that when refs hold up a card they do it more or less straight upwards?Good. So for a player to be punished for visually demanding a card he needs to mimic that. Not an arm out like he’s directing traffic. Nor a Nazi salute for that matter.Right then. Post up the footage that shows Danny Mac holding his arm up vertically like that. Right now, I don’t think it exists. You can’t cop out by saying “for me” @LargeAddick. Its a draconian rule, so it has to be interpreted strictly. Lets see the footage. If it exists, I am ready to apologise to all who claim DM was correctly carded.
But as I said on the match thread, Sky dont have superior footage that CTV and others don’t. Everything goes through a central EFL studio in Osterley and is fed out from there to the club streams. I’m not ITK. There was an article in the Athletic about it.I believe you are all across socials, etc. Have you got footage to post of DM doing the card signal ( like we saw in the World Cup) or not?4 -
I realize that that this will probably be an unpopular point of view, but it was a stonewall penalty, especially when viewed from beside the goal.8
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Very good point about the methods of fouling,having watched football for over 70 years,I really dont recall in decades gone by players being pulled back,shirts being tugged etc.,cant think when this all started,probably with the influx of foreign players,same with the dramatics.jimmymelrose said:
That depends on whether you had a ref from the 90s or from 2026. If you had a ref from the 90s, it would be the 2026 team who’d finish with fewer players because they’d be getting constantly booked for holding, shirt pulling and time wasting through feigning injury.Gribbo said:I'd say the 90s was the best era for football - still a physical game, but played at a good pace, with plenty.
Whether a team from today would beat their equivalent from that era is another question. Although, the 90s team would probably finish the game with about five men left on the pitch!
Besides, I think people are getting confused between the 70s and the 90s. Teams were dirty in the 70s; they’d often be intentionally fouling the opposition, but this impression comes from videos of Leeds and Chelsea online. If you watch the Big Match revisited on TV you’ll see that it wasn’t really that bad.
In the 90s you still had the attitude that ’he was going for the ball’ when he caught the man and ’he played the ball first’ when he then caught the man, but there wasn’t so much of an intention to foul.
Ultimately, the difference between the two eras was that before, players fouled with their legs and feet, and now they foul with their arms and hands.0 -
I admire your persistence here, but is your position (now you’ve seen the replay) that McNamara may have done it, the Madley might not have seen him do it but due to some vendetta against us just guessed that McNamara had made the gesture and sent him off?PragueAddick said:
The Sky highlights package is up on the OS now, and I think it makes you right. DM's hand briefly goes up, albeit crooked arm, before extending out at 90 degree angle for quite a long time as he approaches Madley. The close up only shows his arm out wide, so Madley would need to have seen him approach, and I'm not sure he did because he's in "dialogue" with Bell and Mesik right in front of him. But now I see that, I have to concede there was something like a "card simulation" in which case you are right to criticise DM for coming such a long way to make his point. But then, he would not have been on a yellow if Madley and the lino had carried out their most basic task a couple of minutes earlier.fenaddick said:
Weirdly I haven’t seen it anywhere, I saw it once during the game and that’s it. It was from one of those far away, lower quality type cameras. With a bigger telly it might have been more obvious but I just saw him waving his hand around. I guess we also don’t know the context of what he was saying at the time which could be a contributing factorPragueAddick said:
That’s your opinion, but is not the subject of my post. The rule is new , and its very specific. Its also very easy to spot, unlike the other new guidance on grappling which Madley was also interested in showing he could apply when no one else in the ground could see it.fenaddick said:
NJ said it was for the gesture which means Madley thinks that’s what he saw. Regardless of all that, it’s silly of McNamara to run over to do that when in theory the rule is only the captain can approach the ref. That means he’s already making the ref twitchy. He’s a senior pro playing in a match where his team needed leadership and a cool head and he did the oppositePragueAddick said:Really, somebody, prove me wrong.
Can we just first agree that when refs hold up a card they do it more or less straight upwards?Good. So for a player to be punished for visually demanding a card he needs to mimic that. Not an arm out like he’s directing traffic. Nor a Nazi salute for that matter.Right then. Post up the footage that shows Danny Mac holding his arm up vertically like that. Right now, I don’t think it exists. You can’t cop out by saying “for me” @LargeAddick. Its a draconian rule, so it has to be interpreted strictly. Lets see the footage. If it exists, I am ready to apologise to all who claim DM was correctly carded.
But as I said on the match thread, Sky dont have superior footage that CTV and others don’t. Everything goes through a central EFL studio in Osterley and is fed out from there to the club streams. I’m not ITK. There was an article in the Athletic about it.I believe you are all across socials, etc. Have you got footage to post of DM doing the card signal ( like we saw in the World Cup) or not?
Surely the more plausible explanation is that McNamara did it (however briefly), Madley saw it and gave him the second yellow that he’s supposed to by the letter of the law?
The officiating was woeful yesterday, but I don’t think this incident is the one to die on a hill over. Not least because in the context of the match it didn’t really matter as the game as a contest was already well over. Does mean we lose McNamara for the next match, but when you sign players from Millwall that’s to be expected!1 -
Mate it's about the most ridiculous second yellow I've ever seen. I don't know what the appeals process is but we need to try something herese9addick said:
I admire your persistence here, but is your position (now you’ve seen the replay) that McNamara may have done it, the Madley might not have seen him do it but due to some vendetta against us just guessed that McNamara had made the gesture and sent him off?PragueAddick said:
The Sky highlights package is up on the OS now, and I think it makes you right. DM's hand briefly goes up, albeit crooked arm, before extending out at 90 degree angle for quite a long time as he approaches Madley. The close up only shows his arm out wide, so Madley would need to have seen him approach, and I'm not sure he did because he's in "dialogue" with Bell and Mesik right in front of him. But now I see that, I have to concede there was something like a "card simulation" in which case you are right to criticise DM for coming such a long way to make his point. But then, he would not have been on a yellow if Madley and the lino had carried out their most basic task a couple of minutes earlier.fenaddick said:
Weirdly I haven’t seen it anywhere, I saw it once during the game and that’s it. It was from one of those far away, lower quality type cameras. With a bigger telly it might have been more obvious but I just saw him waving his hand around. I guess we also don’t know the context of what he was saying at the time which could be a contributing factorPragueAddick said:
That’s your opinion, but is not the subject of my post. The rule is new , and its very specific. Its also very easy to spot, unlike the other new guidance on grappling which Madley was also interested in showing he could apply when no one else in the ground could see it.fenaddick said:
NJ said it was for the gesture which means Madley thinks that’s what he saw. Regardless of all that, it’s silly of McNamara to run over to do that when in theory the rule is only the captain can approach the ref. That means he’s already making the ref twitchy. He’s a senior pro playing in a match where his team needed leadership and a cool head and he did the oppositePragueAddick said:Really, somebody, prove me wrong.
Can we just first agree that when refs hold up a card they do it more or less straight upwards?Good. So for a player to be punished for visually demanding a card he needs to mimic that. Not an arm out like he’s directing traffic. Nor a Nazi salute for that matter.Right then. Post up the footage that shows Danny Mac holding his arm up vertically like that. Right now, I don’t think it exists. You can’t cop out by saying “for me” @LargeAddick. Its a draconian rule, so it has to be interpreted strictly. Lets see the footage. If it exists, I am ready to apologise to all who claim DM was correctly carded.
But as I said on the match thread, Sky dont have superior footage that CTV and others don’t. Everything goes through a central EFL studio in Osterley and is fed out from there to the club streams. I’m not ITK. There was an article in the Athletic about it.I believe you are all across socials, etc. Have you got footage to post of DM doing the card signal ( like we saw in the World Cup) or not?
Surely the more plausible explanation is that McNamara did it (however briefly), Madley saw it and gave him the second yellow that he’s supposed to by the letter of the law?
The officiating was woeful yesterday, but I don’t think this incident is the one to die on a hill over. Not least because in the context of the match it didn’t really matter as the game as a contest was already well over. Does mean we lose McNamara for the next match, but when you sign players from Millwall that’s to be expected!1 -
I've been thinking of the bigger things at play, beyond individual performances and referee errors. There are two linked things that I think had a big impact on the game, Stoke changed formation and the lack of prep time.
Stoke have started the season playing a sort of 343 with two wingers flanking a striker, they played it last year too. As such, all their play had been going down the wings. Their wingbacks were defensive and that allowed Galbraith to pop up in random pockets of space where he needs. Yesterday they made a shift to a 352 and packed the centre of the pitch. A lot of their attacks still came on the flanks but more play was made through the centre of the park than usual. That, of course, is where the majority of our changes were.
This is where the timing element comes in. I'm sure NJ and team usually drill a plan A and plan B into the team, depending on how they think the opposition will line up. Last weekend is a good example, Preston changed shape but NJ had seen it coming and so the team knew what to do. The team will have had one training day after the WBA game, that isn't enough to drill in two different tactical plans for the opposition.
If Stoke had played their "usual" formation then the make up of the team makes more sense. You have two FB's who have spent a lot of time at CB so are usually defensively fairly solid, two big CB's to deal with one CF, Ouma doing a man marking job on Galbraith, Skipp mopping up and JRC able to find pockets of space for his technical play.
None of this is to say we shouldn't have reacted better or that NJ was right to rotate that much. Changing your whole midfield is a recipe for disaster. I do think some perspective helps though and some credit has to go to Mark Robins for being better than NJ tactically on the day5
